First Reader?

PeeDee · Sep 12, 2005

Good day! I've been doing a very fine job lurking quietly on this board for awhile now. I felt I should read what I could before I jumped in (a fine attitude until you full comprehend how much stuff there is on these boards). However, I had a question that I've otherwise failed to find information on. Thought this might be a good place to bring it up.

First readers.

I've heard them mentioned by various editors and writers. They are (as my understanding goes) the ones who get the first run at the stories that roll in on a regular basis and form perilous stacks with little stickers that say "to be read," or what we might also refer to as the slush pile. They read the general submissions, pass along decent ones to the editor...and that's where my knowledge stops.

Considering the things people say about the level of quality of 95% of unsolicited submissions (pure crap, drawn in crayon, The Bible retitled with a new author name, etc.) but I have to admit, I love the sound of that job. I just don't know that much about it.

What qualifications does one need to work as a first reader? How does one get a job as a first reader? Is it even a full and seperate job, or just one that's done by other members of the staff when there's time.

I think it would be a magnificant job, and I'd jumped all over it in a second. I just have absolutely no idea which direction to jump, or what it looks like and how I'm to jump it.

This board is full of smart people, writers, editors, and even some who are all three at once

so any information you can give me would be very appreciated.

Thanks!

Pete
(who might make a second post somewhere, you just see if I don't.)

Torgo · Sep 12, 2005

Just passing through -

I believe some big houses do employ readers (wasn't George Costanza one for a week or two on Seinfeld?) In my experience it's the job of editors and editorial assistants to read slush, and for a long while the receptionist at my place filtered a lot of it out (a woman or rare taste and discernment, sorely missed.) We've had work experience people help out too from time to time, with instructions just to reject the obviously mad people.

If you're interested in a career of long lunches, idleness, sneering at authors, and endemic alcoholism, the Editor's Guild wants you! Be prepared never to get rich. Arts grads are all over the place, although there are some more interesting career paths among the editors I know (Theology degree > British Army > editor, for one, or my particular favourite, circus clown > editor.)

What you do is, you send your CV off to a bunch of publishers and ask them for an editorial assistant's job, or you sign on with a temp agency that fills ed. asst. jobs and wait to impress your bosses into hiring you permanently.

Unimportant · Sep 12, 2005

Pete, I don't think it's a job you'll get rich at

I vaguely recall Teresa Nielsen Hayden saying that everyone at Tor pitches in to read the slush pile, and that Tor then employs freelance first-readers (generally high school students) to read the full manuscipts that Tor (infrequently) solicits -- at about twenty dollars a pop.

YMMV.

PeeDee · Sep 12, 2005

.

Aww, riches, who needs 'em.

If I based things I enjoy doing on how much money they were going to bring in, I think I probably would've given up writing ages ago. You do something for the joy of it, or not at all. If it happens to come with a paycheck, very nice. Otherwise, you've still got the joy.

I think "Editorial asst." was the job I was groping for a way to describe. I think you'd have to call me wildly niave, but it sounds like fun.

Ultimately, I'm a writer. Everything else falls into the category of "Things to do until I can just write."

What got me thinking about it was, Ellen Datlow mentioned on the SciFICTION forums (scifi.com) some various comments about her first reader heading through the slush pile. I can't find the precise links, but it sounded like a fun thing to do besides writing.

Another maybe-useless question: What do publishing houses/magazines think of people who work over the internet? I live in Minnesota which is a long way from any business that does not involve corn, cows, or mosquitos. Financially, moving is not an option right now.

Obviously, it varies from house to house, magazine to magazine, I assume. I'm just appraising the generalizations on these matters.

Thanks!

Unimportant · Sep 12, 2005

As you noted: it depends.

If you want to volunteer as an editor at an ezine that takes esubs, location probably won't matter. If you want a full time job as an editor at HarperCollins, location will matter -- as will education, experience, ability to copy-edit, etc.

You might want to volunteer at an ezine for a bit, just to see if you actually like that kind of work.

Some potentially useful reads:
http://www.livejournal.com/community/cranky_editors/141307.html

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/index.jsp

http://www.poewar.com/archives/2004/11/11/how-to-find-publishing-industry-jobs/

http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004641.html

PeeDee · Sep 12, 2005

.

It's not at all a bad idea. THe last thing I need is another project but...well...that has yet to stop me from doing something potentially cool.

I shall give it a shot.

(a collective pool of knowledge, ye' lot are)

addendum: I had no idea these sites existed. This is fascinating information. Really appreciate it.

Torgo · Sep 13, 2005

For paper and print publishers you can do freelance proofreading at a distance; you will need proofing qualifications, from a training centre with a good rep in the industry (be careful.) Ed. Asst. though is a job that has to be in-house, and slush-reading too (your postman would murder you if you had slush sent out to your home.)

I suspect something online like SciFiction has a little office somewhere, where Ms Datlow and her colleagues meet up.

PeeDee · Sep 13, 2005

.

I don't think SciFICTION can be regarded as any sort of "industry norm" since it would logically be run by NBC, the owners of the Sci-fi Network, who then pays scads of money to Ms. Datlow and whomever she hires. It was just what caught my attention.

Getting slush through the mail would STILL be far and above more interesting than the drivel I get. I seriously got a letter yesterday telling me that the "APACOLYPSE WAS COMMING NIEGH!" and I just about laughed myself silly. Yes, that is how it was spelled. It went on at length about my rotting in the fiery pits and all that, all the rest of it was spelled well, but that first line was priceless.

I've never heard of training centers for things like proofreading, unless it's just some sort of course offered at regular schools. That's something to poke at. I suppose there's thirty scams for ever legit one in this field as well. *Takes out weathered eye and pops it in for examination purposes*

Torgo · Sep 14, 2005

This is the place I trained: http://www.train4publishing.co.uk/. The company sent me there for proofing and copyediting training a while after I got my permanent contract. I'm sure if you dig a little you can find something reputable near you. The University of Minnesota probably runs a course (not sure how near you are to them, but it might be possible to do something via distance learning.) There are an awful lot of scams in this area, as you might expect when people are keen to get into the industry.

Once you've got your qualifications, you can send out your contact details to places and see if anyone will give you freelance work from home. Bear in mind though that many houses have a good supply of tried freelance proofers, and also that this isn't exactly a reader's job.

Lauri B · Sep 14, 2005

Torgo said:
This is the place I trained: http://www.train4publishing.co.uk/. The company sent me there for proofing and copyediting training a while after I got my permanent contract. I'm sure if you dig a little you can find something reputable near you. The University of Minnesota probably runs a course (not sure how near you are to them, but it might be possible to do something via distance learning.) There are an awful lot of scams in this area, as you might expect when people are keen to get into the industry.

Once you've got your qualifications, you can send out your contact details to places and see if anyone will give you freelance work from home. Bear in mind though that many houses have a good supply of tried freelance proofers, and also that this isn't exactly a reader's job.

You could also contact local and regional publications and let them know you're interested in becoming an intern--free help is never sneered at, and it'll give you some experience in the editorial assistant world, which you can then use to get a paying gig.

Glynis · Sep 14, 2005

I spent a couple of years working for a Literary Agent as a secretary. One of my responsibilities was to read the slush pile and send out those form rejection letters that everyone is so fond of. When I read something that was actually good, I would send a personal letter with a list of agents more suited to represent the work.

I think reading the slush is a valuable experience, but doing it for a living is tiring and tedious. As a writer, the best thing you can take from the slush pile is how not to write. Just because someone can type 300 pages does not make it a novel. Some folks just don't get that.

This is just my experience. It may be different for others.

Glynis
:Sun:

PeeDee · Sep 16, 2005

Uh-huh....uh-huh....uh-huh.... *takes notes*

(live about an hour away from the University of Minnesota. I'm down there about three times a week. My wife takes classes, I haunt the library and write.)

This Publishing Training Centre is interesting to look at. This was the sort of thing I was wondering existed.

(I should make mention that I'm hardly looking to start a career at this, and honestly would probably do no more than the suggested intern. Everything falls into two categories, "Time Writing," and "Time doing everything else." Obviously, the first category is the vitally important one. Everything else is just stuff to do, things to poke at, things to learn, until I'm happily writing full time. The publishing industry fascinates me, I enjoy learning and reading about it.)

(pretty much done with parenthesis now)

Cathy C · Sep 16, 2005

If you want to be a writer, the publishing industry SHOULD fascinate you! It's an excellent idea to get inside the minds of the people you're trying to impress. If you can pull it off, becoming a reader is a nice way to get your feet wet and learn the business. I don't have anything else to add to the excellent comments here, but Good luck!

JerseyGirl1962 · Sep 16, 2005

Pete, good luck to you. I hope you find what you want.

I'll leave you with an amusing bit. My sis-in-law worked for one of the Warner Books imprints (no idea which one) about 10 years ago. She was doing the actress and model thing in NYC at the time, and was between paychecks. She got a job going thru the slush, and told me some sick and hilarious stories.

I only remember one: Someone sent in their manuscript in a pizza box. You read that right. A pizza box. Stamped with "Best pizza in town" on the top or somesuch, with the toppings printed on the sides of the box. She was hysterical - made her day!

Anyway, I don't think she lasted more than a couple to few months. But if you think you'd like to do it for awhile, more power to you!

Hmm...I have a sudden urge for pizza for dinner tonight.

~Nancy

PeeDee · Sep 16, 2005

What an insanely cool story.

I remember one about an editor who got a "Miss you, hope things are well where you are," postcard which was from a writer, addressed to her manuscript that she sent in a year earlier. It had a whole message on it, all of it funny, and it was enough to get the editor to go dig the manuscript out and look at it.

I don't necessarily know if this woudl be a good rule of thumb (for every clever postcard, there would be a hundred "My manuscript is in hyroglyphics! Have fun! whee!" that would come in.) As long as it's the exception, it's amusing.

The one thing that would stop me from pursuing a major career in publishing is that it's very hard work for very long hours. I always read it, am thoroughly impressed, and then think, "Yes, but when would I write? I'd be a wreck in a week."

I guess some people are wired certain ways. Mine says writer.

Jamesaritchie · Sep 16, 2005

PeeDee said:
I don't think SciFICTION can be regarded as any sort of "industry norm" since it would logically be run by NBC, the owners of the Sci-fi Network, who then pays scads of money to Ms. Datlow and whomever she hires. It was just what caught my attention.

Getting slush through the mail would STILL be far and above more interesting than the drivel I get. I seriously got a letter yesterday telling me that the "APACOLYPSE WAS COMMING NIEGH!" and I just about laughed myself silly. Yes, that is how it was spelled. It went on at length about my rotting in the fiery pits and all that, all the rest of it was spelled well, but that first line was priceless.

I've never heard of training centers for things like proofreading, unless it's just some sort of course offered at regular schools. That's something to poke at. I suppose there's thirty scams for ever legit one in this field as well. *Takes out weathered eye and pops it in for examination purposes*

You'd be amazed at how little Datlow makes, and how mush less than little those around her make.

PeeDee · Sep 17, 2005

Doesn't surprise me much. I suspect she does it for the joy of the thing, like the rest of us.

I was throwing the term "scads of money" around loosely, because it's a great deal of fun to say "scads of money."

First Reader?

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

Torgo

Formerly Phantom of Krankor.

Unimportant

No COVID yet. Still masking.

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

Unimportant

No COVID yet. Still masking.

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

Torgo

Formerly Phantom of Krankor.

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

Torgo

Formerly Phantom of Krankor.

Lauri B

I Heart Mac

Glynis

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

Cathy C

Ooo! Shiny new cover!

JerseyGirl1962

I heart Malamutes! :-)

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?

Jamesaritchie

PeeDee

Where's my tea, please...?