QLTBAG fiction vs. fiction with QLTBAG protagonists

If the story isn't primarily about queerness or genderfuck, or genderqueer, it just has QULTBAG characters, rather than tag it, if the characters are well done, and it doesn't seem like too much flag-waving, I'd mention it in the review.

Queer fiction in SF would be, say, Bear's Carnival, or Delany's Triton--in both queerness, and gender are primary themes. If queerness, genderfuck, etc. are primary themes, then tag it.

I don't really make that distinction. QLTBAG-characters are part of the tapestry of life. If you don't have them in your fiction, then you're removing one piece of the tapestry. If you do, you're just reflecting the kaleidoscope of experience that is life.

Maxinquaye said:

I don't really make that distinction. QLTBAG-characters are part of the tapestry of life. If you don't have them in your fiction, then you're removing one piece of the tapestry. If you do, you're just reflecting the kaleidoscope of experience that is life.

Click to expand...

I agree with this to a point, but to me, there are two types of stories. One is specifically about the experience of being queer, while the other type is more about the SF or fantasy or whatever, and one or more of the characters just happens to be queer.

I see a lot more of the first type than the second, but I prefer the second type, because if well done, it does more fully reflect "the kaleidoscope of experience that is life." It's always a thrill for me to pick up a mainstream novel, and find that one of the characters is queer--not a tortured or villainous person, but just a regular character who just happens to be queer. Then I can see myself in the novel.

I've always seen "experience of being queer" as "experience of being human". But that's just me. I mean, boy meets boy is not fundamentally different from boy meets girl, after all, except maybe in execution in the end game...

I'd say if one of the primary themes or conflicts is dealing with QLTBAG issues, then it would valid to call it QLTBAG fiction. If any themes of conflicts regarding QLTBAG issues are relatively minor or nonexistent, it's just fiction that happens to have QLTBAG character(s).

Maxinquaye said:

I've always seen "experience of being queer" as "experience of being human". But that's just me. I mean, boy meets boy is not fundamentally different from boy meets girl, after all, except maybe in execution in the end game...

Click to expand...

In some ways, yes, and in some ways, no.

Tell that same story in, say, San Francisco and the other in the middle of the Bible Belt, and they'll be very different stories. The first could be told little different plot-wise from het love stories. The latter... probably not so much.

kuwisdelu said:

In some ways, yes, and in some ways, no.

Tell that same story in, say, San Francisco and the other in the middle of the Bible Belt, and they'll be very different stories. The first could be told little different plot-wise from het love stories. The latter... probably not so much.

Click to expand...

True, in the complications that has to be passed through to achieve the goal - being together. But the essence would probably be the same.

1. Boy A sees boy B
2. Boy B doesn't like Boy A.
3. Boy A shows Boy B that he's the one.
4. Kiss at fade out.

I'm going to go with the distinction between stories that focus on queer themes and stories that don't, for the most part. Yes, QLTBAG characters are just people, and have the same basic wants and concerns that most people have. But there are definitely special concerns and themes that can come into play, and things like a character's sexual orientation or gender identity can affect the story.

For example, say you're writing about a woman who's worried about introducing her female partner to her mother. If she's worried because she's scared her mother will reject their relationship because they're lesbians, that's a queer issue. The character's sexuality is important to the story. But if she's worried because her mother has Alzheimer's and has trouble recognizing her sometimes, that's a different story, where the fact that the protagonist is a lesbian may just be a part of her character.

I also make some distinction in regards to how important the GLTBAG characters are. If they're the main characters, that might be noteworthy. If they're only in a couple scenes, maybe not.

Personally, I wouldn't mind how the books were tagged, but it'd be nice if the review gave me some idea of how important the characters or their identities are to the story, because it can be a little annoying to expect one thing and get something different.

Hmm.

What if the story has a lot of QLTBAG situations, but it's not really what the story is about, it's just what the story demands?

It's not remarked upon. It's treated the same way as if the same moments were straight. But the story would be quite different if it were straight.

Sheila Muirenn said:

Hmm.

What if the story has a lot of QLTBAG situations, but it's not really what the story is about, it's just what the story demands?

It's not remarked upon. It's treated the same way as if the same moments were straight. But the story would be quite different if it were straight.

Click to expand...

That sounds like it's mainstream with queer characters.

Look at it this way.

We have a genre called romance, where the primary plot and major themes are all related to two people falling in love.

It's a distinct genre.

But you also have romance as a sub-plot and minor theme in all sorts of other novels--like, say Strong Poison by Dorothy Sayers, or Bujold's Cordelia's Honor.

We have books where the primary plot, and the major themes are queer themes.

We have books that have queer characters in them, but the primary plot and themes are not directly about being queer.

Medievalist said:

That sounds like it's mainstream with queer characters.

Look at it this way.

We have a genre called romance, where the primary plot and major themes are all related to two people falling in love.

It's a distinct genre.

But you also have romance as a sub-plot and minor theme in all sorts of other novels--like, say Strong Poison by Dorothy Sayers, or Bujold's Cordelia's Honor.

We have books where the primary plot, and the major themes are queer themes.

We have books that have queer characters in them, but the primary plot and themes are not directly about being queer.

Click to expand...

That makes sense to me. Thanks

Yeshanu said:

It's always a thrill for me to pick up a mainstream novel, and find that one of the characters is queer--not a tortured or villainous person, but just a regular character who just happens to be queer. Then I can see myself in the novel.

Click to expand...

I, as well, like these kinds of stories (and really strive to write them), so I can see where there may be a need for a distinction when it comes to the reviews mentioned here. Especially, maybe, if it involves a future society where queer issues are obsolete?

I, personally, try to keep present-day queer issues out of my fiction (Because in my happy-land mental futures, everyone is a-okay with everything. A little bit of wishful thinking, but I suppose that's acceptable because it is my own writing) so I often wonder about the difference between "this is a queer story" or "this is a story that happens to have queer main characters", there's def a slight difference.

(Though, I'll happily read either one!)