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Jazzy Waltz
07-30-2010, 08:13 AM
... and have been running around in circles on the internet between wikipedia, monstropedia, and some other sites in between as they all refer to certain things without explaining them. So, as you can imagine, I have a few questions.

Firstly, there are numerous references to some sort of hierarchy amongst the fallen angels. Apparently Abaddon (who is referred to in some places as the destroying angel of the apocalypse and one of God's right hand soldiers and other times as a fallen angel) is of the 7th Hierarchy, and commands the Sixth House of Hell and is the ruler of the Abyss. But I don't know what the Hierarchy is, what the Houses of Hell are, or the Abyss.

Can anyone answer this for me, or point me to a good reference?

Mac H.
07-30-2010, 11:35 AM
The beauty of it is that there isn't really a consistent mythology. There are plenty of variants and none of them are particularly more authoritative than others.

Check out the Nag Hammadi library for some earlier demonology.
eg: http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/origin.html

The Book of Enoch is particularly interesting as well.

The popular parts of Christian Mythology (such as Lucifer rebelling against God) find their roots in Jewish fairy tales but weren't necessarily believed in the early Christian church. (See Justin Martyr's "Dialogue with Trypho" in about 150AD as an example of a discussion in the early church)

So you have a bit of an open area to work with it. If you use the rough outline in the Book of Enoch you can't go too far wrong from the basic mythology.

Mac

Rufus Coppertop
07-30-2010, 01:19 PM
Dictionary of Angels (Including the Fallen Angels) by Gustav Davidson.

The Keys to the Gateway of Magic - Summoning the Solomonic Archangels and Demon Princes by Skinner & Rankine ( an edition with commentary on one of Dr Thomas Rudd's major works )

Jodie_writes_what?
07-30-2010, 04:18 PM
I have a few books on both angels and fallen angels and links I've saved over time.

You might wanna check this out:

http://www.answers.com/topic/demonology

http://duplechien.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=demonology&action=print&thread=341

http://www.esotericarchives.com/solomon/weyer.htm <-actual documentation oh John Weyer's stuff.

In addition to your now growing book list...

Angel & Devils by Joan Carroll Cruz (some, if you are familiar with the teachings are pretty obvious but it has some interesting tales)

Fallen Angels the Watcher, and the Origins of Evil (again is just foundation stuff, if you've read the bible, then this isn't needed)

Biblical Demonology by Merrill F Unger <-scientific kinda approach to the bible's teachings.

Fallen Angels by Bernard J Banberger

Jazzy Waltz
07-30-2010, 07:53 PM
Thanks! Much appreciated, guys. :)

PsychicToaster
08-03-2010, 08:39 PM
The Key of Solomon is probably worth looking at. It's an old manuscript about how to conjure angels. Utter nonsense, but wonderful source material.

bylinebree
08-11-2010, 04:20 AM
Most of the references given here aren't "traditionally Christian" ones (I don't think). I do know that The Book of Enoch is in the Apocrypha, which isn't widely accepted by Christians. The others may be Judaic (which is the Root of Christianity of course, but also has branches of mysticism that don't have much to do with either traditional Judaism OR Christianity) - or are New Age-y.

The Bible doesn't go into great detail over naming demons and what part of the hierarchy they are (probably God's wisdom in that, since we'd get all hung-up on it!)

Beyond this...just make it up? : )

If you want a direct source, go to the Bible or this ref at crosswalk.com (below). http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/bakers-evangelical-dictionary/demon.html

Best wishes!

Mac H.
08-11-2010, 05:21 PM
Most of the references given here aren't "traditionally Christian" ones (I don't think). I do know that The Book of Enoch is in the Apocrypha, which isn't widely accepted by Christians.Sure - but the mythology in it is.

The story of Lucifer being an angel who rebelled against God and being cast down is straight is a traditional part of Christian lore - but it is from the 'Book of Enoch' rather than the Bible.

So even if people say that they don't believe the Book of Enoch is true - they still rely on the stories in it for the background of the religion.

Mac

bylinebree
08-12-2010, 10:26 PM
Mac,
You can check any Bible refs to "Satan" or "Lucifer" or demons; no need to go to the Apocrypha unless you simply want to.

Revelation 12:9 is one place that refers to Satan and a third of his angels being cast down after rebelling against the Lord. The name Lucifer is used for the King of Babylon AND Satan, depending. (weird but there you are - Nebuchadnezzar was a bad dude!)

I won't argue theology or references, but if one wants Christian demonology still the best reference is the original: the Bible.

Looks like she got some info to go on, anyway - and I wish her the best with it.

Mac H.
08-13-2010, 01:01 PM
Mac,
You can check any Bible refs to "Satan" or "Lucifer" or demons; no need to go to the Apocrypha unless you simply want to.
But it is better to go to the original source.

The common Christian myth (which I was taught as a child) is that:
1. There was an angel called 'Lucifer'
2. He sought to make himself higher than he should be
3. He was punished by being hurled down.

In an old Caananite myth:

1. The Morning Star (Lucifer) tried to rise high above the clouds and establish himself on the mountain where the other stars assembled
2. But failed - and was cast down into the underworld

In a more recent (Book of Enoch - 1st Century CE):
1. There was an angel called 'Lucifer'
2. He sought to make himself higher than he should be
3. He was punished by being hurled down.

In the Bible :
1. A reference to a Red Dragon rebelling against God (in Revelations).
2. Jesus "saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven" (in Luke)
3. An Old Testament reference to Venus ('Lucifer') rising and being cast down - just like the Caannite myth

The Christian myth that I was taught was extremely specific - the details of Lucifer's crime, for example, matches the Book of Enoch almost exactly.

Yes - you can piece together each item and make it fit the Book of Enoch myth - but many other interpretations are possible.

The only complete telling of this myth of popular demonology is found in the Book of Enoch - not the Bible.


So why would you NOT go to the only complete telling of this myth to learn about this myth ?

Mac