Transgendered Brain Study

Yeah. It's really interesting actually. Thanks.

Aren't brains already a type of organic computer?

Derail ahead:

Scientists in the past few years have realised that the future of computing is all Carbon - which is much more useful than Silicon when used in a certain way. So I posit: to build a sentient robot, you would literally be building a real life human from scratch, considering the carbon thing.

This is precisely why I don't buy "metal" sentient robots in SF (anymore). Presumably to achieve the intricacy of machinery necessary to create a robot life, you'd have to use carbon, and the simplest way of solving the equations and mental-problems of creating an artificial brain is to study the natural brain.



Whut? *I* thought it was interesting...

That certainly explains why this is sooo creepy:

Cliff Face said:

Derail ahead:

Scientists in the past few years have realised that the future of computing is all Carbon - which is much more useful than Silicon when used in a certain way. So I posit: to build a sentient robot, you would literally be building a real life human from scratch, considering the carbon thing.

This is precisely why I don't buy "metal" sentient robots in SF (anymore). Presumably to achieve the intricacy of machinery necessary to create a robot life, you'd have to use carbon, and the simplest way of solving the equations and mental-problems of creating an artificial brain is to study the natural brain.



Whut? *I* thought it was interesting...

Click to expand...

Carbon? Are you serious? I'd LOVE to see some reputable articles on this. Maybe I'll look around when I have more time, but if you've got any you could post, that'd be interesting. Thanks for the tip. I have AI robots in my story, and they'd be more interesting if they were carbon based. I'd naver thought about it until now, though.

To rerail, very slightly, it'd be interesting to have a transgender robot in a story. I've considered it, but haven't really done it yet.

To rerail more, there are a few studies like this, and most of them say pretty much the same thing. It's interesting, and gave me a lot more confidence when I first came out. It's very early and needs a lot more study, but any little bit would help. The American Medical Association wants insurance companies to see transsexualism as a legitimate, non-cosmetic issue, and things like this can let them put more pressure on them if they become more well-known in the future.

Mara said:

To rerail, very slightly, it'd be interesting to have a transgender robot in a story.

Click to expand...

For practical purposes, it'd be weird enough to have a gendered robot in the first place. (Even though that's pretty common for lots of sci-fi.) A transgendered robot would be interesting...

*is reminded of a certain episode of Futurama*

maxmordon said:

Aren't brains already a type of organic computer?

Click to expand...

For all we know about brains and consciousness, brains may well be more like radio receivers than computers.

The way I learned about carbon being the next forefront of technology was in a New Scientist article last year. Can't recall which issue... but it was something to do with certain shapes being able to hold more information than silicon ever could, which in turn amps up processing speed. And considering that to give a robot sentience would require some sort of wicked-quick processor, operating on multiple levels, yeah, carbon robots.

But that's just the brain. Why I think it'd have to be carbon "body" too is because you need everything to be able to communicate with the brain in the brain's own language. Suppose you had a silicon body, and it was the best out there, but it could only hold 1000 bits of information at a time (random number, not taken from anywhere) and operated in 3 different ways. If the brain is interpreting this using material that holds 7000 bits of information and operates in 11 ways, (again, random numbers) then you've basically got a brain that isn't being used to its full potential - but you need the brain to be used at its full potential (ie. a human potential, which is still something like 5% of the brain's "potential", though I suspect 100% activity would kill you) or else you don't get sentience.

So the body has to use the language of the brain, even if the body's information is simplistic enough to be expressed in other ways.

And then there's the whole thing with joints, tension, strength, feel and recoil, which is where carbon kicks silicon's arse in terms of being "true to human life". You could probably make a functioning robot using silicon, but the brain would still have to be super complex to get it functioning at a human level (even if it isn't sentient) so the brain at least would have to be carbon, and a carbon brain operating with silicon body would presumably have more chance of a failure in the system during high stress situations.


But all this rides on the idea that carbon in certain formations makes for faster computers and more data storage than the best we could hope to achieve with silicon.

If you get the chance, try finding a database for New Scientist issues that has a search function, and typing in "carbon computers". It's my best idea of finding the article again...

/derail (for now... mwuahahahhhaa!!)

PS: Of course, even with the best carbon computers, there's still a certain element, a "spark of life", that needs to be achieved to produce sentience. But I think humans will figure it out, if it's ever considered ethical to create life in a lab. Not until certail crucial technologies have been explored, but we'll get there... (I'm talking dark matter here - seriously, when are we going to figure out how to use that stuff?? I can only do so much of the thinking myself!)

I'd also say that even if your scan doesn't show you being trans (ie. if I had a scan and it showed my mind being masculine) I should still be at least considered for SRS. I mean, I might be a tom-boy girl trapped in a man's body, which might reveal a brain scan showing masculine tendencies, even though I *know* that I identify as female...

Just a thought (based on paranoia that I'd be scanned as male and someday refused SRS simply because of that)...

The brain scan thing is good for evidence that being trans is a real phenomenon, but there's no proof that all trans people fit that pattern. And there might even be people who have that trait but don't need or want to transition.

(I do believe the scan thing would probably be accurate in almost all cases, but I woudln't want someone to slip through the cracks.)

Zoombie said:

Okay, so, to get this thread back on track, does the results of this study mean that it is unethical to not allow someone who's brain is wired up as a girl or a boy to not be a girl or a boy?

So if anyone is unsure of whether or not a transperson is "serious" or not, they should just do a MRI to clear up the issue.

If they check out, it seems like the "but what if they change their mind" issue should be dropped.

Click to expand...

Mara said:

The brain scan thing is good for evidence that being trans is a real phenomenon, but there's no proof that all trans people fit that pattern. And there might even be people who have that trait but don't need or want to transition.

(I do believe the scan thing would probably be accurate in almost all cases, but I woudln't want someone to slip through the cracks.)

Click to expand...

There would still be an issue of a threshold. While certainly useful for many cases, it would be difficult if not impossible to define a "male" or "female" range of the neurons in question that would always be accurate.