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Hurt
07-20-2010, 05:19 AM
Does anyone know the lowdown regarding exorcism in Scientology?

It's proving to be rather difficult to find any solid information on how "body thetans" are exorcised, and the reasoning/history behind it.

Could be an interesting spin on the whole exorcism thing...

And would there be any legal reprecusions of writing a story about it? It seems like Scientology like to sue first, and ask no questions later...

Your knowledge, ideas and thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

P.S. - Yes, Tom Cruise has to be possessed :D

thothguard51
07-20-2010, 06:13 AM
Here is an interesting link...

http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/htruebt.htm

It appears the Church of Scientology withholds this information from their members until they reach a certain level. Then they are told they hold the bodies of upwards of 2,500 thetans in their own body and the only way to rid yourself of them is to communicate to them telepathically. Or something like that...

I assume we all have these thetans, but only the select few in Scientology know anything about them and the 22 suns, with 76 worlds they come from, possibly including Venus...

I always knew my family was from mars... or is that Alpha Centauri?

BenPanced
07-20-2010, 06:17 AM
Does anyone know the lowdown regarding exorcism in Scientology?

It's proving to be rather difficult to find any solid information on how "body thetans" are exorcised, and the reasoning/history behind it.

Could be an interesting spin on the whole exorcism thing...

And would there be any legal reprecusions of writing a story about it? It seems like Scientology like to sue first, and ask no questions later...

Your knowledge, ideas and thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

P.S. - Yes, Tom Cruise has to be possessed :D
This10. Their lawyers can beat up your lawyers, which is why anybody who pickets their buildings wears masks.

Hurt
07-20-2010, 06:22 AM
Oh man, that complicates things.

I remember reading somewhere that it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars before you're able to reach certain levels. Not to mention, falsly obtaining information from a higher level can cause physical sickness or something like that.

Hmmm...

BenPanced
07-20-2010, 06:35 AM
Yeah, you could be out hundreds of thousands of dollars and sign a billion-year contract, since your soul is immortal and reincarnates in perpetuity according to their teachings, before you move forward enough to learn about it.

Srsly. I hate to be a party pooper, but going up against the Scientologists ain't worth it, even if you'd claim satire or parody.

benbradley
07-20-2010, 09:00 AM
I don't recall this being called exorcism, though I'm not that familiar with the Scientology "faith." I put faith in quotes because, other than these thetan things that only seem by those higher up (who have taken most of the "classes" and stuff), Scientology looks rather secular to me. It appears to call itself the "Church of Scientology" mostly to have the religious exemption on taxes with the IRS and states for property taxes and such.

It's interesting that according to this high-fallutin' doctrine, the Thetans lived 40 trillion years ago, and remain in our bodies today. Scientific estimates over the time starting when Hubbard came up with this have estimated the Universe to be between 5 and 20 billion years (there are more precise figures nowadays, but even during and before Hubbard's time there was significant evidence that the Universe was at least millions and probably billions of years old, but certainly not trillions. I have no idea where all these Thetans were in the trillions of years before Earth and the current Universe were formed.

Yeah, you could be out hundreds of thousands of dollars and sign a billion-year contract, since your soul is immortal and reincarnates in perpetuity according to their teachings, before you move forward enough to learn about it.
But that's okay, I hear it works a lot like "est"/the Landmark Forum and other such secular groups in that if you're not rich enough to pay for these courses outright, you can pay off what you owe by volunteering to help run the classes and do other things for the organization - they credit what you owe at about the rate of minimum wage, but look how much you're helping people!

Srsly. I hate to be a party pooper, but going up against the Scientologists ain't worth it, even if you'd claim satire or parody.
This is true in so many cases, such as the Cult Awareness Network (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_Awareness_Network). In the '90's Scientology members became active online (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt.religion.scientology) as well.

But their legal stongarm tactics haven't stifled everyone, as the South Park episode on Scientology demonstrated. It did eventually cause Scientology member and the voice of South Park "Chef" character Isaac Hayes to quit the show, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Hayes#South_Park) but I didn't see where they got sued off the planet or anything.

Torgo
07-20-2010, 01:55 PM
And would there be any legal reprecusions of writing a story about it? It seems like Scientology like to sue first, and ask no questions later...


If you're worried about legal repercussions, you could always file off the serial numbers and write about something very similar to but not identical to Scientology. 'Spaceology' as The IT Crowd had it the other day, perhaps.

Jazzy Waltz
07-25-2010, 07:31 AM
I'm a Scientologist... and there are no such things as 'body thetans'. In Scientology the word 'thetan' is just another word for the soul or spirit... in other words, its the person themselves, you. We don't do exorcisms, and even if we did saying that you're going to 'exorcise' a thetan is basically saying you're going to kill somebody... because the thetan is just the person inside the body.

You could just go to the website, www.scientology.org (http://www.scientology.org). It has tons of videos that explain these things. People will say all kinds of things about something they don't understand, so it's always best to go to the source. I would only ask around if the information was inaccessible, and it's clearly available.

That link the other guy posted up there isn't true... people don't hold thetans in their bodies. And we don't withhold information from our parishioners... it's clearly available in the many, many books and articles that L. Ron Hubbard wrote on the subject.

And Scientology doesn't sue for just any reason, nor do we do it for money if anybody thinks that. We take it very seriously when anybody tries to take our teachings and twist them to say something else because a lot of people get hurt as a result and it gives us a bad rep when there's no need for it. Sorry to sound so pissy... but having been in the religion for about fifteen years I think it's safe to say that I know quite a bit about it and respect it very highly, so when I see people quoting stupid sources without even going to check out the religion itself it just makes me angry because we scientologists put out a lot of effort to make our religion as easily accessible as possible.

That said, I would just take a look at the website and/or visit a church and find out for myself, even if you are doing it just for research for your book.

Oh, and the 'billion year contract' is something that Scientologists sign when we join the Sea Org, which is basically a group of Scientologists that dedicate their lives to expanding the Scientology religion. The whole billion years thing is simply a traditional dedication... it doesn't actually mean you're staying for a billion years, though we do believe in past lives and that when you die you continue on in a new body. As for spending thousands of dollars... that's not really true either, at least not in the way it's portrayed as people make it sound like you just plunk down shit tons of money right off the bat. I'm sure that after spending about ten or twenty years in college you'd spend about that much money too. Scientology offers self improvement courses, and each one of them costs money but they're not unaffordable. The counselling costs money too, but the church charges to keep it's lights on and the bills paid as well as to help fund the tons of humanitarian and community programs it's involved in. Over a period of ten or twenty years of course all that adds up. But it's actually still cheaper than going to college, and it's cheaper than seeing a shrink. Not to mention that every time you pay for a course or counseling session it's counted as a donation and it's tax deductable. I really don't see what the beef with it is.

Good luck,

Jaz

Mac H.
07-30-2010, 12:08 PM
I'm a Scientologist... and there are no such things as 'body thetans'.I suggest you read up on the history of your religion.

I appreciate that Xenu, Body Thetans, etc may not be part of current Church doctrine that you are exposed to but it is clear that it was part of doctrine in the late 1970s.

To answer the original question - If you want to read up on one of the approved ways of dealing with/exorcising these 'Body Thetans' check this out:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/NOTs/aa5b.html


There is a method of blowing off heavy masses which can be resorted to if nothing else will work. One can mock up a hand and, using it as an edge, pass it between the body and the mass to separate it off. There are often lines of attachment to the body which can be strings, beams, lines or suction caps. These have to be severed using a suitable mock up. If one uses a hand to throw off a mass then the hand should be thrown off together with the mass to ensure that there are no communication lines left to the body. One can have a phenomena of clusters stuck in layers together in a mass or in superimposed ridges. The thetan hand technique can be used to separate them apart so that they can be addressed separately.In general, difficulty in blowing off masses is caused by lack of sleep, vitamins or calcium. It can also be made harder by carrying on a session too long and over-restimulating the pc.
The stuff being 'blown off' here are the 'Body Thetans' - or, as described here:


The majority of beings whom one is handling at this level are below the level of life. They no longer consider themselves to be alive but are in very low states of awareness, unaware and asleep. The term is genuine (even though not used in this document) because the Church of Scientology talked about it UNDER OATH in a court case over whether the material in documents like this counted as 'trade secrets'.

It was released as part of an awkward copyright issue with the Swedish courts. However, since the Church of Scientology has declared that it is theirs (because they insisted they owned the copyright) we can be sure it is genuine.

If you wish to read up on more documents about your religion, you can start here:

http://www.wikileaks.org/wiki/Church_of_Scientology_collected_Operating_Thetan_d ocuments

Again, it is declared to be genuine by the Church of Scientology because they insisted that they owned the copyright in their takedown notice.

As I am only using statements made UNDER OATH by the Church of Scientology as sources for my information, I feel confident that my information on Scientology is correct.

I'm sorry they are declining to share this information with you. Feel free to use the Wikileaks archive as a way of improving your understanding of Scientology.

Mac

Jazzy Waltz
07-30-2010, 10:45 PM
I suggest you read up on the history of your religion.

I appreciate that Xenu, Body Thetans, etc may not be part of current Church doctrine that you are exposed to but it is clear that it was part of doctrine in the late 1970s.

To answer the original question - If you want to read up on one of the approved ways of dealing with/exorcising these 'Body Thetans' check this out:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/NOTs/aa5b.html (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/%7Edst/NOTs/aa5b.html)

The stuff being 'blown off' here are the 'Body Thetans' - or, as described here:

The term is genuine (even though not used in this document) because the Church of Scientology talked about it UNDER OATH in a court case over whether the material in documents like this counted as 'trade secrets'.

It was released as part of an awkward copyright issue with the Swedish courts. However, since the Church of Scientology has declared that it is theirs (because they insisted they owned the copyright) we can be sure it is genuine.

If you wish to read up on more documents about your religion, you can start here:

http://www.wikileaks.org/wiki/Church_of_Scientology_collected_Operating_Thetan_d ocuments

Again, it is declared to be genuine by the Church of Scientology because they insisted that they owned the copyright in their takedown notice.

As I am only using statements made UNDER OATH by the Church of Scientology as sources for my information, I feel confident that my information on Scientology is correct.

I'm sorry they are declining to share this information with you. Feel free to use the Wikileaks archive as a way of improving your understanding of Scientology.

Mac

I'll reiterate my statement once again, since I haven't made it clear enough. Everything about Scientology is clearly available in the text written by L. Ron Hubbard for those who want to find out about it. Yes, it's true that there are certain writings that are confidential to those on the lower levels due to the fact that they would not be understandable until one did those lower levels. But they are STILL available to anyone who wants to find out-- they just have to do the lower levels first.

There are certain people who have taken bits and pieces from confidential materials and then twisted them and posted them on the internet. Works out real well so that everybody else can think we're crazy. 'Blowing mass' has nothing to do with 'body thetans' which I will again say don't exist. There are just 'thetans'.

It is commonly agreed upon by Scientologists that we should not try to explain different terms to people but show them the source directly. This is because if we misinterpreted what the text said then other people will get ideas that aren't true. Hence the tons of literature on the web about Scientology not written by L. Ron Hubbard that really doesn't make sense. So, once again, I suggest that you go and read the books about Scientology-- not L. Ron Hubbard's fiction novels because they have nothing to do with the religion. We have taken great pains to ensure that they are available in almost every library around the world. Make use of that.

Mac H.
07-31-2010, 12:00 PM
I'll reiterate my statement once again, since I haven't made it clear enough. Everything about Scientology is clearly available in the text written by L. Ron Hubbard for those who want to find out about it.Exactly - which is why I gave a link to MORE of L. Ron Hubbard's writings. Scientology is so much more than the basic book 'Dianetics' and it is a shame that people might judge the religion based on just one of his MANY writings on the subject. Dianetics was also written in 1950 - before he had created much of the religion of Scientology so it is a particularly poor basis for understanding the religion.

It is great that thanks to the internet, that many more of his writings are available to everyone to read without the 'need of doing the lower levels first'.

That's why I was answering the question - as you have chosen to not read the higher level stuff until you have completed your current levels you didn't know that 'Body Thetans' are, in fact, a part of Scientology.

That's your choice, of course. But it does mean that you are in danger of giving misleading answers because you haven't read MORE of the texts written by L. Ron Hubbard.

And yes, I do have a copy Hubbard's non-fiction works on Scientology sitting on my bookshelf. I would not dream of answering questions about scientology without giving references to the original works of Hubbard.


It is commonly agreed upon by Scientologists that we should not try to explain different terms to people but show them the source directly.Agreed - which is why I in fact gave a link to an official Scientology training article explaining what a 'Body Thetan' is and how to remove them.

It is your choice if you wish to not read it until you have completed the lower levels. It does mean, however, that you answered the question wrongly. A more accurate answer would have been: "People who have read more of Hubbard's writings than I have say that Hubbard describes Body Thetans in OTIII. I believe it is very easy to misinterpret this collection of his writings, so have chosen not to read it yet. However, here's a link to his writings in OTIII that explain it if you wish to read it, even though I have chosen not to."

BTW - Please don't misunderstand me. I am not against Scientology as a religion at all. I love the way sacred traditions are created - what some people dismiss as 'Space Opera' I see as a beautiful part of the history & mythology of the religion. It is a shame (in my view) that Scientology isn't embracing the Xenu part of their history - just do a search on Google [ Xenu site:www.scientology.org ] and you'll see that there are ZERO hits.

Since you are involved with the movement, can you try and convince them to get Xenu and the H-Bombs as a part of their tradition that they should be proud of, instead of hiding it ?

Mac

Jazzy Waltz
08-01-2010, 08:35 PM
Exactly - which is why I gave a link to MORE of L. Ron Hubbard's writings. Scientology is so much more than the basic book 'Dianetics' and it is a shame that people might judge the religion based on just one of his MANY writings on the subject. Dianetics was also written in 1950 - before he had created much of the religion of Scientology so it is a particularly poor basis for understanding the religion.

It is great that thanks to the internet, that many more of his writings are available to everyone to read without the 'need of doing the lower levels first'.

That's why I was answering the question - as you have chosen to not read the higher level stuff until you have completed your current levels you didn't know that 'Body Thetans' are, in fact, a part of Scientology.

That's your choice, of course. But it does mean that you are in danger of giving misleading answers because you haven't read MORE of the texts written by L. Ron Hubbard.

And yes, I do have a copy Hubbard's non-fiction works on Scientology sitting on my bookshelf. I would not dream of answering questions about scientology without giving references to the original works of Hubbard.

Agreed - which is why I in fact gave a link to an official Scientology training article explaining what a 'Body Thetan' is and how to remove them.

It is your choice if you wish to not read it until you have completed the lower levels. It does mean, however, that you answered the question wrongly. A more accurate answer would have been: "People who have read more of Hubbard's writings than I have say that Hubbard describes Body Thetans in OTIII. I believe it is very easy to misinterpret this collection of his writings, so have chosen not to read it yet. However, here's a link to his writings in OTIII that explain it if you wish to read it, even though I have chosen not to."

BTW - Please don't misunderstand me. I am not against Scientology as a religion at all. I love the way sacred traditions are created - what some people dismiss as 'Space Opera' I see as a beautiful part of the history & mythology of the religion. It is a shame (in my view) that Scientology isn't embracing the Xenu part of their history - just do a search on Google [ Xenu site:www.scientology.org (http://www.scientology.org) ] and you'll see that there are ZERO hits.

Since you are involved with the movement, can you try and convince them to get Xenu and the H-Bombs as a part of their tradition that they should be proud of, instead of hiding it ?

Mac

The problem with that statement is that there is good reason for waiting to do the lower levels before reading that material. In order for those people to have posted anything higher level they would have had to have access to the material, which means that they were trusted with it. The only reason they would have tried to expose such material would be if they hadn't properly done the lower levels, and/or if they had malicious intent toward the Scientology religion, which means that whatever texts put up is guaranteed to have been re-written or corrupted in some other way. Which means that the writings really aren't originally from L. Ron Hubbard. There is actually very little data in Scientology that can't be found in the materials that are made available to everybody-- the stuff that you guys are talking about is directly contradictory to the information that I've studied, and believe me when I say that I've studied a lot. Which is why I don't think it's accurate.

Paul
08-01-2010, 08:38 PM
Wasn't Katie Holmes exorcised from Tom?

thothguard51
08-02-2010, 12:28 AM
Tom was exorcised from the rest of the human race first...

Mac H.
08-02-2010, 03:23 AM
The only reason they would have tried to expose such material would be if they hadn't properly done the lower levels, and/or if they had malicious intent toward the Scientology religion..Firstly, this isn't logical. There are many other ways they could have been released. The first one is that when someone dies there is no reason to believe that their loved ones and/or heirs are automatically scientologists. So someone can end up with the writings without being malicious and without being a scientologist. Also, the concept that someone who disagrees the scientology (and so leaks the information) automatically means that they are corrupting the information is kind of insulting. There are plenty of people from all walks of life who disagree with religion (and might leak information about that religion) but who are honest. (Remember - heirs have no obligation to keep information confidential - they aren't bound by the agreements that the original person signed)


Which means that the writings really aren't originally from L. Ron Hubbard. Officials of the Church of Scientology have stated under penalty of perjury that they are genuine.


... the stuff that you guys are talking about is directly contradictory to the information that I've studied ...
The 'higher levels' are contradictory to the lower levels? Why does that make it false?

That's part of our complex universe. Quantum physics is directly contradictory to classical 'lower level' physics. Our universe is contradictory by nature. And bits of the 'higher level' physics even contradicts other bits of 'higher level' physics !

But if scientists insist that people outside of physics shouldn't be made aware of quantum physics until they had completed the full training in the 'lower levels' of standard physics, then many people might miss out on the journey entirely because they miss the beauty of the subject.

Yes - there is a risk that some people might dismiss physics entirely because it is self-contradictory. But that hasn't happened. Instead there are literally tens of thousands of enthusiastic books getting kids interested in physics by giving the reader a glimpse into the contradictory world. Sure - some people have probably chosen different subjects because of it.

But on the whole it has ENCOURAGED people to enter the subject.

So have you asked the other people in the movement why they aren't embracing their rich literary heritage of Xenu, H-bombs and the intergalactic war?

The most recent cover of 'Dianetics' was a step in the right direction (IMHO) - it at least makes readers aware that there is a much richer backstory to the teachings.

Good luck !

Mac

Jazzy Waltz
08-02-2010, 06:38 AM
Sorry Mac, but that's impossible. Those Scientologists on the upper levels aren't allowed to remove those materials from the courserooms in which they're studied-- they don't make it home with them. So even if the person died, they wouldn't have any confidential materials for the person to inherit.

Okay, fine, so maybe those specific quotations are really from L. Ron Hubbard. That doesn't mean everything else on the net is.

And FYI, there are plenty of recorded lectures where L. Ron Hubbard talks about past civilizations and what not in this universe-- what you call space opera. It's just not really a basic part of the religion so there's no need to advertise it. It's just a point of history. What's important is that Scientology seeks to help people by enhancing their abilities and making them more themselves and removing unwanted conditions that are stopping them from succeeding in life. The whole history of the universe really doesn't communicate that to people.

Mac H.
08-02-2010, 12:44 PM
It's just not really a basic part of the religion so there's no need to advertise it. It's just a point of historyThat's what I find heart breaking.

What you call 'just a point of history' I call 'part of the rich cultural heritage'.

There is no 'just' about it - it would be like talking about acupuncture but ignoring the whole beauty of what the Chi lines really are about historically.

Xenu is a part of your Church's heritage! Be proud of it !

Mac

Monkey
08-03-2010, 06:52 PM
My ex husband's father was Sea Org, and my ex had actually taken the tests, been accepted and briefed before backing out. He remained in Scientology, and gave me a lot of Scientology books to read (and yes, they go way beyond Dianetics). I've been on an E-meter, seen one of L.Ron Hubbard's recorded speeches, been to Scientologist churches, and taken this personality test thing they give before you take the Purification Rundown.

OTIII just means "Operating Thetan Three". In Scientology, a "Thetan" is a soul. As you go up in the ranks of Scientology, according to their teachings, you gain better understanding and ability to fully use your soul, hence the ranks.

When a person dies, the Thetan has to find a new body. Some of these Thetans are weaker than others; some are so weak that they aren't even capable of reincarnating anymore. (High level OT's can see and deal with these Thetans, sometimes helping them along.) Those Thetans who want to reincarnate basically find a pregnant woman and latch on...but if more than one Thetan latches on to the same person, or if they're latching on for reasons other than reincarnation, then I could totally see where it would progress logically from Scientology teachings that a person might have unwanted Thetans clinging to them.

Scientology calls itself a religion, but it also calls itself a "religious philosophy". Many Scientologists, especially those low in the OT levels, are also members of another religion...although this is usually in a spiritual, self-taught sense rather than a church-going sense.

It's possible that a low-level Scientologist could go for an old-fashioned Catholic exorcism...but more likely, they'd go to a higher level OT (three or four, probably), and ask for help. That person would probably attempt to communicate with the Thetans and ask them to leave, helping them by sending them energy if necessary. It wouldn't be a big, dramatic exorcism.

Anyway, my opinion, based on what I read and learned from my ex. Keep in mind, this was in high school and for about two years thereafter, and my memory isn't fantastic.

amlptj
08-04-2010, 06:49 PM
i know this is going to sound really really stupid but seriously research South Park the show because 1st off the eposoide making fun of it is dead on! and 2nd the writers lawyers got out of all there suits! You should find out how and maybe ask some questions because they would probably know.

Paul
08-04-2010, 06:55 PM
a person might have unwanted Thetans clinging to them.



:e2zipped:

to each his own.

EDIT:
Yeah, read as much as I could stomach about Hubbard beliefs. The thing is this. If you accept his beliefs you have to completely denounce or dismiss Psychology/ Psychiatry, which coincidently, he does. One of the most important advancements of mankind - dismissed.

Essentially, you can't declare yourself permanently ill, unless doctors are declared non-existent.

To quote Spock: Fascinating.