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defyalllogic
07-19-2010, 08:26 PM
that's the question. like not born inside any country. like if you were born on an international research station or (if there is such a thing) an international building...

what are the implications? where would you be deported to if such a situation arose in your future?
...

defyalllogic
07-19-2010, 08:33 PM
oops, found info for my own question:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statelessness
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_Relating_to_the_Status_of_Stateless_Per sons
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_the_Rights_of_the_Child

but still welcome any additional info or perspectives.

Medievalist
07-19-2010, 09:16 PM
I have a friend born at sea, in International waters. She has dual citizenship based on the citizenship of her parents--and I can't remember what countries.

defyalllogic
07-19-2010, 09:51 PM
where'd be birth certificate come from?

Medievalist
07-19-2010, 10:32 PM
Generated by the Captain of the cruise ship, and the ship's doctor.

Drachen Jager
07-19-2010, 10:50 PM
There's a case right now of a German couple who got a surrogate mother in India to carry their twins. The children do not have citizenship for any country right now because of the laws of the two nations. German law says that the birth mother is the mother so the children are Indian. Indian law says the genetic parents are German so the children are German. Right now they're stuck in India in legal limbo, until one of the countries changes it's laws.

thothguard51
07-19-2010, 11:05 PM
I had always assumed that on a ship in international waters, you are still on the territory of where the ship is registered.

If it is a U.S. Flagged ship, the child would be considered U.S with a dual citizenship of the parents.

I wonder what nationality a child would be if born about the ISS, (International Space Station.) I mean the first word is ... International.

greta2242
07-20-2010, 04:59 AM
I had always assumed that on a ship in international waters, you are still on the territory of where the ship is registered.

If it is a U.S. Flagged ship, the child would be considered U.S with a dual citizenship of the parents.

I wonder what nationality a child would be if born about the ISS, (International Space Station.) I mean the first word is ... International.

There is a UN treaty that states that no country can own the moon. But then again there is one about Antarctica, and Argentina purposefully sends pregnant women over to the ice block to give birth. Argentina claims that Antarctica is there's, and mostly everyone else ignores the claim.

But you are right. If the ship is sailing an American flag, the child is a citizen of the country. Not all countries have citizen by birth though, so it depends on the country of the parents origin. There is a UN mandate that no person will ever be stateless, so if both countries are not agreeing then the baby has a legal case to claim one.

MissMacchiato
07-20-2010, 05:02 AM
yeah, from what I understand, the child is considered the nationality of the first country in which the plane or vessel touches down.

It's a crazy thought, isn't it?

StephanieFox
07-21-2010, 01:44 AM
In the US, if one or both of the parents are American, the child can claim American citizenship at anytime, provided he or she can prove this.

I have a friend who was born in Cuba of an American mother and a Cuban father. When he was in his mid-20s, he decided to move to the USA, went over to the US Embassy (this was in the early 1950s) and they gave him a passport. Simple as that.

hammerklavier
07-21-2010, 06:14 AM
They give everyone who escapes from Cuba a passport :)

Didn't seem to work that way in Vietnam.

Layne
07-22-2010, 04:08 AM
This was on the news not so long ago. Baby was born over international waters. The parents touched down in Hawaii, so that's where the baby was registered, if I remember correctly.

hammerklavier
07-22-2010, 07:24 AM
That was Obama! :) ;)

Kalyke
07-22-2010, 07:59 AM
I personally wish we were post "national." Citizens of the Earth. I tend to think that a child born on the international space station would be whatever nationality his or her parent was. i had duo citizenship up till I was 18. The other country was one I knew nothing about, and didn't speak the language of. Even now, I am tagged as not exactly a full citizen. Whenever I apply for a job, or college financing, I have to send in extra paperwork proving I am a citizen. Duo citizenship is not fun.

lastlittlebird
07-24-2010, 10:40 AM
I'm a dual citizen with the US and NZ and I've found it nothing but a door opener. I've had a Peace Corps term with it, I can hop in and out of most pacific islands and Australia without a visa, etc.
Because my grandparents were Irish I can also get an Irish passport(which would open up the whole of the EU)... in theory at one point I could have had 4 valid passports (you get issued one for Peace Corps). Made me feel like a super secret agent. I've heard if I want to visit both Israel and certain other Middle Eastern countries I need two passports because they won't let you in if you're carrying a stamp from the wrong place.

Although it's a bit scary in the States. I'm pretty sure there are circumstances where people wouldn't give you the benefit of the doubt if you turned out to be carrying 2 passports... and my last name is arabic, which doesn't help :)

Phil_Hall
04-21-2011, 08:26 PM
Emilio Markos Palma, who was born in Antarctica in 1978.

Nick Blaze
04-22-2011, 01:12 AM
So, what about a child born in the UN's headquarters but lifted out by helicopter without having set foot in America? Or in the center of the Earth? Or by a gypsy mother who was laying in three countries all at once? Or on a floating, autonomous nation that the world itself doesn't recognize as its own nation?

Curiosity. Some of these may or may not appear in novels of mine. >_>

Sarpedon
04-22-2011, 01:27 AM
The individual Modules of the ISS are owned by the countries who built them. So a baby born on the ISS might be a US, Russian, Japanese or European citizen...the latter being problematic, as their module was a joint project of several EU nations. Unless, of course, the mother was doing a spacewalk at the time. At which point the Canadian robot arm might have done the honors.

Antarctica is legally not owned by any nation, though the individual bases there are.

veinglory
04-22-2011, 01:33 AM
Most countries will recognize citizenship by descent, so unless your parents are in a displaced population you get it from them.

defyalllogic
04-22-2011, 03:35 AM
OP HERE:

This is an old thread resurrected. I don't even remember what I was working on when I asked this question. I don't want anyone wasting their time trying to help me. It might be helpful to someone else though.

shaldna
04-22-2011, 11:38 AM
Because my grandparents were Irish I can also get an Irish passport(which would open up the whole of the EU)... in theory at one point I could have had 4 valid passports (you get issued one for Peace Corps).

I might be wrong here, but I think you have to claim citizenship to get an Irish passport. I also believe that the citizenship by heritage only allows for four generations.

I have two passports, an irish on and a british one. I live in the north, so it's a bit of a minefield, and people are essentially left to choose their own nationality.

Dandroid
04-22-2011, 11:47 AM
in the province where i live....if you are born in an ambulance on the way to a hospital....they determine the town of birth based upon when the placenta delivers....weird!