Small towns who can't afford police anymore say: "Meh ... Do without 'em."

Plot Device · Jul 14, 2010

EDIT: (Aw geez! Typo in the thread title! Snickers Bar to the first person who can figure out what it should REALLY say!)

It's not the main article here from AOL News that alarms me.

Penny-Pinching Towns Put Police Out to Pasture

It's the following blog reaction to the article that raises my eyebrows.

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2010/07/oldest-community-in-colorado-puts.html

Of all the things to cut in the budget, police protection is not something I consider optinal. But this guy with the blog says:

I wish this was happening everywhere. Moreover, it should happen everywhere. Unfortunately, it's not happening everywhere.

....

Police salaries and benefits are outrageous. Unions complain their life is on the line. Yet, here is the reality - any officer whining like a stuck pig has a clear option, an option to not take the job. The Sheriff's association will take the job at a lower cost.

Shouldn't government attempt to provide the most taxpayer benefits at the least cost instead of the fewest benefits at the most cost?

Public unions, without a doubt do the latter. If you want to do something about this you have a chance. Vote against any candidate endorsed by any public union.

...

Here's what Jim Pasco, executive director of the National Fraternal Order of Police had to say. And I agree.

"penny wise and pound foolish."

...

"The absolute threshold responsibility of a government at any level is to ensure the safety of its citizens," he said, adding that local police officers are more effective because they "know the town, know the people and know the nuances."

Plot Device · Jul 14, 2010

Big thanks to whoever fixed the thread title.

icerose · Jul 14, 2010

That is really crazy. I can't imagine not having some sort of enforcement. The little towns around here are run by a county sheriff and we manage okay, splitting the costs and requiring all applicants to already have their certification. On top of that they have to live in the area they serve. As far as I know we haven't run into any crisis situations or budget deficits. Any big stuff we get Utah Highway Patrol to help out. I think it's not a good idea to entirely eliminate the police departmnet. Say you have low crime, what happens when there's a domestic abuse situation? Who's going to get called? It doesn't have to be big or outside crime to need a badge to help take care of things.

Devil Ledbetter · Jul 14, 2010

It depends on why they're being cut. In our town, the police and fire department forces grew gradually larger and larger as our population (and tax base) expanded. That was necessary. But even though our population and tax base have declined steadily for several years, some people are outraged by the idea of cutbacks in police and fire department protections.

And while I'm not anti-union, it is indeed the unions here who are first to point fingers and declare that anyone supporting cutbacks doesn't care about the citizenry. This is silly. We care, we just don't need as many to protect 33,000 people as we did to protect 50,000.

Magdalen · Jul 14, 2010

Plot Device said:
Big thanks to whoever fixed the thread title.

'Course it should be "small towns that" not "small towns who" since a town is not any one person.

dgiharris · Jul 14, 2010

I can see a small town, 2,500 people or less, being more or less okay without a police department and relying on state police.

San Luis, established in southern Colorado in 1851, is facing a $750,000 budget deficit. The town of 740 residents has a median income is $20,875. It's about 225 miles from Denver

But take bigger towns like Mayfield

But the crime rate is significant in Maywood, Calif., an industrial working-class town of more than 30,000 residents. There were four murders in 2008, twice the national average, according to the website city-data.com.

Maywood had a $450,000 deficit in a $210 million budget. In addition, it had been unable to obtain insurance and workers' compensation coverage because it had faced too many lawsuits, many involving the police.

Rather than declare bankruptcy, all city functions were outsourced this month. The duties of the 41 police officers -- who also patrolled the neighboring city of Cudahy -- were turned over to the sheriff's department in neighboring East Los Angeles.

that is just a mistake.

Incidentally, if I were a drug dealer, this would be a dream market. Target small towns without police departments and sell the 'safe' drugs like marijuana and X.

think i might write up a story with this premise

Mel...

EDIT: On second thought, I think its a mistake.

icerose · Jul 14, 2010

Devil Ledbetter said:
It depends on why they're being cut. In our town, the police and fire department forces grew gradually larger and larger as our population (and tax base) expanded. That was necessary. But even though our population and tax base have declined steadily for several years, some people are outraged by the idea of cutbacks in police and fire department protections.

And while I'm not anti-union, it is indeed the unions here who are first to point fingers and declare that anyone supporting cutbacks doesn't care about the citizenry. This is silly. We care, we just don't need as many to protect 33,000 people as we did to protect 50,000.

Cutbacks and reorganizations are completely understandable, but complete eliminations like in the OP article? That's going to the extreme.

Devil Ledbetter · Jul 14, 2010

icerose said:
Cutbacks and reorganizations are completely understanding, but complete eliminations like in the OP article? That's going to the extreme.

In a town with a population of only 740? Why is that extreme? That's much smaller than the population of a lot of public schools.

firedrake · Jul 14, 2010

the City that just laid me and four other employees off, at the same time hired a new Police Chief for silly money, a salary somewhere between 80k and 100k. We have perfectly experienced Lieutenants who had been doing the former Chief's job for ages. (He really couldn't be arsed to turn up for work). This City probably only has a population of about 8,500 if not less, so I'm still puzzling why, if it was so strapped for cash, why they hired an expensive new Chief.

So, the police force are doing well in this shithole of a town.

kuwisdelu · Jul 14, 2010

Sounds like fun.

clintl · Jul 14, 2010

It really depends on how it's done. The town where I grew up got rid of its police department and contracted out the duties to the county Sheriff's Department years ago. Most of the city police officers got absorbed into the Sheriff's Department, which runs it as a unit. It apparently has worked out reasonably well.

icerose · Jul 14, 2010

Devil Ledbetter said:
In a town with a population of only 740? Why is that extreme? That's much smaller than the population of a lot of public schools.

I really have no beef with the 740 population town, we have one like that and if they need anything the county sheriff gets called and everything is taken care of.

But as Mel stated, the 30,000 population city with a high crime rate is really a stupid place to completely eliminate the police force.

icerose · Jul 14, 2010

clintl said:
It really depends on how it's done. The town where I grew up got rid of its police department and contracted out the duties to the county Sheriff's Department years ago. Most of the city police officers got absorbed into the Sheriff's Department, which runs it as a unit. It apparently has worked out reasonably well.

Ours is like that. When the biggest population in a 60 mile area is 1500 people you really don't need independant police departments, so I agree, it's the how that matters.

tjwriter · Jul 14, 2010

Our small town has a Town Marshall for law enforcement. You at least need someone.

Maryn · Jul 14, 2010

Remember, though, that any town which does not have a police force is covered by county sheriff instead. One of the towns near me, a satellite community to a mid-sized city, has 40,000 residents and no police department. When they need the cops, their 911 calls go straight to the county sheriff's department. If it didn't work, I'm sure they'd have voted something different in the last 25 years, but they did not.

A locally based people department may have a faster response time (or may not, if the lone cop on duty is already on a call), but if virtually all the police business is property crimes rather than harm to individuals, that doesn't matter a lot.

Maryn, seeing towns without police work just fine

tjwriter · Jul 14, 2010

Well, yeah, our backup is the county. They all hang out at the gas station frequently in the evenings. Occasionally, if something big is going on, it will be the marshall, county and state.

Devil Ledbetter · Jul 14, 2010

icerose said:
I really have no beef with the 740 population town, we have one like that and if they need anything the county sheriff gets called and everything is taken care of.

But as Mel stated, the 30,000 population city with a high crime rate is really a stupid place to completely eliminate the police force.

I was referring to the smaller town. I agree, a town of 30,000 needs some kind of police force.

icerose · Jul 14, 2010

I did want to add that I am lumping the sheriff's office in with police force so I could be seeing this all wrong and these towns could be moving to a sheriff enforcement rather than individual police forces which can work really well.

johnnysannie · Jul 14, 2010

The small town where I live is broke, big time broke.

They just announced last week many major cuts including a lot of the police department. They cut fire department staff too. Not a good move.

They are, however, trying to pass a personal city property tax and I think that in part it's emotional blackmail to get it passed because although the town needs it, most people are against it.

veinglory · Jul 14, 2010

So if a crime occurs and one of them calls 911, who answers? Are they essentially leaching off surrounding juristictions?

icerose · Jul 14, 2010

veinglory said:
So if a crime occurs and one of them calls 911, who answers? Are they essentially leaching off surrounding juristictions?

That's what bothers me. It's one thing if they've worked out a deal, it's another thing if they're dumping their departments and just expecting someone else's budget to cover them.

dgiharris · Jul 14, 2010

Small towns don't need police departments when there is no crime.

But when there is crime, the cost of said crime and impact to the community can be more than the money saved by not having a police department.

THere must be some science behind crime and population density. There should be some remarkable correlations. I'd bet that you probably start to get problems around the 10,000 person mark.

Mel...

Don · Jul 14, 2010

On the verge of bankruptcy, and the only thing these towns can find to cut are the essential services that are the reason for the government's existance in the first place? The citizens of the town really needs their employees to have city-paid cars, expense accounts, memberships in country clubs and associations, trips to conventions and seminars? There's no city property sitting fallow that could be sold? What's the price of that new construction job on the school compared to the national sq-ft average?

Mitch Daniels tackled some of these simple issues in Indiana, and it's turned the state around.

I smell emotional blackmail.

tjwriter · Jul 14, 2010

We also took a big ass hit in our educational system, which I consider very essential, but for the most part, yes things have been done well.

GeorgeK · Jul 14, 2010

Pet Peeve

About a dozen years ago our one good sherriff was assassinated by a regional drug lord. People complained that he didn't have a wife. Gradually the police have degraded into donut eating protection charging third world junta. The last time I called the sherriff about someone coming onto my property and shooting at me, it was an off duty deputy. Now I carry a rifle if I hear any odd sounds.

Small towns who can't afford police anymore say: "Meh ... Do without 'em."

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