[wikileaks Apache footage, redux]

Gale Haut · Jul 8, 2010

The Youtube video is courtesy of Wikileaks. Warning! Don't watch it unless you can stomach seeing people die on a tiny, low-res, black and white screen.

US drones gun down civilian reporters and children...

I'm offering this as an example of the disconnect between the operation of these remotely operated weapons and the reality of what they're capable of. From the vantage of the operators, it seems like they think they're playing a video game, which is a frightening prospect considering they can't accurately confirm the intel that the men have weapons from the resolution. (Actually, the civilians are carrying equipment for their cameras) Nor were the operators able to see the children sitting inside the van before they blew it up.

What are your thoughts? Do you have any insight into the Drone debates?

MacAllister · Jul 8, 2010

Your link doesn't seem to be working, Timmy.

Gale Haut · Jul 8, 2010

Thanks! It should work now.

robeiae · Jul 8, 2010

The description sounds like the Apache helicopter video...which wasn't a drone.

astonwest · Jul 8, 2010

Details, details...

Gale Haut · Jul 8, 2010

Your absolutely right. Hm... That's embarrassing.

MacAllister · Jul 8, 2010

Yep. It's the Apache footage from last year.

robeiae · Jul 8, 2010

Timmy said:
Your absolutely right. Hm... That's embarrassing.

No worries. Here's a thread on the footage: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176606

William Haskins · Jul 8, 2010

and here's some fresh hot-off-the-presses murdered civilians:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Rocke...rket-kills-six-civilians/Article1-569322.aspx

shawkins · Jul 8, 2010

Timmy said:
Your absolutely right. Hm... That's embarrassing.

Meh. Don't worry about it. Welcome to P&CE. Arguments are always welcome.

robeiae · Jul 8, 2010

shawkins said:
Meh. Don't worry about it. Welcome to P&CE. Arguments are always welcome.

And now the drone is here...

What?!?! It's a joke, people! Scott thinks it's funny, don't you Scott? Scott? Scott?

MacAllister · Jul 8, 2010

And a link to coalition and US Military Afghan casualties, by region. And as a point of interest in case anyone had missed it, we've now officially had boots on the ground in Afghanistan longer than we were officially in Vietnam.

Civilian, contractor, and other deaths and injuries estimates are rather more difficult to find good data for.

shawkins · Jul 8, 2010

robeiae said:
And now the drone is here...

What?!?! It's a joke, people! Scott thinks it's funny, don't you Scott? Scott? Scott?

Yes. Mmmm. Ha. Ha-ha. Very witty. Here you go, funny man. Have some nerd rage!!!!

WHO'S LAUGHING NOW, HMMM??!??

MuAaaHAHAHAHAHAHAH-<koff>-ha!

Magdalen · Jul 8, 2010

MacAllister said:
And a link to coalition and US Military Afghan casualties, by region. And as a point of interest in case anyone had missed it, we've now officially had boots on the ground in Afghanistan longer than we were officially in Vietnam.

Civilian, contractor, and other deaths and injuries estimates are rather more difficult to find good data for.

Thanks for the links Mac. Let's all say it together:

QUAGMIRE

Hunter · Jul 8, 2010

Lesson for journos... don't hang with armed enemies of the United States military.

Don · Jul 8, 2010

Hunter said:
Lesson for journos... don't hang with armed enemies of the United States military.

Speaking of hanging offenses...

Cranky · Jul 8, 2010

Hunter said:
Lesson for journos... don't hang with armed enemies of the United States military.

*is speechless*

Hunter · Jul 10, 2010

These people were operating downtown against our military. By your anguish, are you suggesting we should have let our ground troops take their chances? Just curious.

thothguard51 · Jul 10, 2010

The fog of war is not so black and white...

Noah Body · Jul 10, 2010

Hunter said:
These people were operating downtown against our military. By your anguish, are you suggesting we should have let our ground troops take their chances? Just curious.

I don't know if you want to cover this ground anew, mano... check out the thread in post #8, and most of your questions will likely be answered.

Noah Body · Jul 10, 2010

thothguard51 said:
The fog of war is not so black and white...

Yeah, through NVGs it's green and white.

Elaine Margarett · Jul 10, 2010

I wish I could say this is the exception and I'm not suggesting it's the rule...

However, I've witnessed many more of these types of videos on the laptops of wounded and or deceased soliders. Some of these videos have been put to music and have made the rounds among the troops as power point type presentations! I'd see the same videos on multible computers. They'd show air strikes on buildings and then as the inhabitants ran outside, they were gunned down. Don't know how may of these would be considered war crimes or how may were condsidered justified shootings.

War is ugly. There are many civillian casualties we never hear about.

astonwest · Jul 10, 2010

I wonder if anyone has come up with a statistic for the number of civilian casualties caused by the Taliban forces/insurgents versus the number caused by NATO/US forces...

Romantic Heretic · Jul 10, 2010

The best a soldier can do is buy time. - The Mercenary, Jerry Pournelle.

[wikileaks Apache footage, redux]

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