Rejection on a requested resubmit~

Elaine Margarett · Jul 7, 2010

I re-queried with first five pages to an agent who invited me to resubmit after revising my mystery ms. I came up way short on my word count (approx. 55K). The agent said she believed this indicated a probable structural problem and so she passed. She softened this with some compliments but, well, you know.

The thing is I’ve never had a problem with length. My first four ms, romances, are in the 100k range.

Because this is a mystery, I tried to keep the writing fast (the agent called my writing lively). I wanted to keep the writing tight, descriptions to a minimal, and I made every scene further the story.

I could buff up the word count by expanding on scenes or including scenes I deleted because they were character driven not plot driven, or I revealed through inner thought or dialog to keep the pace fast. Do you think this would address the agent’s issues? Did I strip it too bare?

Or was she concerned my clues and misdirects didn’t lead to a successful conclusion?

Paranormal_Writer · Jul 7, 2010

Hi Elaine,

Sorry to hear you didn't get the reply you were hoping for. On the other hand, this agent obviously saw something in your novel that stood out from the rest. I personally hate books with too much description in them and love a fast-paced, plot driven story. In fact, that's how I landed the agent I'm with now.

However, 55k is pretty short and it could just be that she thought she would have a hard time selling it at this length. I'm assuming this is an adult novel? You might have spent so long on this book that you're missing the bigger picture. Have you tried getting any betta readers to look at it? If they all say the same thing as the agent then maybe you need to take another look at it. Instead of adding more description/deleted scenes, is there a possible sub plot that could work?

If not, and you really feel that it is at the right length to tell the story perfectly, then keep on submitting and find the agent that will LOVE it!
Good luck!

scope · Jul 7, 2010

When you sent this agent the first query letter (accompanied by the original 5 pages?) I assume you told her that your novel is about 55,000 words. Just curious, when she replied and asked you to revise did she mention anything about the length of your work--that 55,000 words is perhaps indicative of a structural problem?

In any event, if you are convinced your manuscript works perfectly well at 55,000 words, I don't think you should make it longer based on one agent's opinion. Should you get the same reaction from 2-4 agents, I'd say that's the time to give it some serious thought.

veinglory · Jul 7, 2010

Elaine Margarett said:
The agent said she believed this indicated a probable structural problem and so she passed.

The agent didn't note writing style, but structure. That is, keep the writing style and have more actual plot/sub-plot?

heyjude · Jul 7, 2010

You really need another 10-20K to get into good mystery word count range. I agree with veinglory, beef up the plot and/or add a subplot.

Also, don't be afraid of that character development stuff. MTS (mystery/thriller/suspense) is trending that way.

Danthia · Jul 7, 2010

Everyone has good advice, but I also find myself thinking she passed after seeing five pages because of a probable structure problem? Does this mean the agent never saw more than five pages? Or did she see the full, mentioned the structure problem and then passed after those next five pages?

If she did see the full, and your word count didn't change, then I can see her passing with the assumption that the problem likely still exists.

If she didn't see the full, it strikes me as odd that she'd pass on something with a "probable" problem, unless it just didn't grab her enough in the first place. It could be a "I like it, but not quite enough for the work I think it needs," deal. But one agent's opinion is not all agent's opinions, so another agent may be fine with it at that length.

If you feel you could make the book better by fleshing out some things, go ahead and flesh it out. But if you feel the book is as good as you can get it as it, keep querying.

I had agents turn me down after a few pages, after a partial, after a full, agents who loved the full as is and said it didn't need much tweaking at all, and still other agents who loved it, but wanted revisions. Tastes vary greatly

Do what feels right for you and your story and keep sending it out there.

Elaine Margarett · Jul 7, 2010

Danthia said:
Everyone has good advice, but I also find myself thinking she passed after seeing five pages because of a probable structure problem? Does this mean the agent never saw more than five pages? Or did she see the full, mentioned the structure problem and then passed after those next five pages?

If she did see the full, and your word count didn't change, then I can see her passing with the assumption that the problem likely still exists.

If she didn't see the full, it strikes me as odd that she'd pass on something with a "probable" problem, unless it just didn't grab her enough in the first place. It could be a "I like it, but not quite enough for the work I think it needs," deal. .

It's probably "...I like it but not quite enough..."

She saw the first 50 pages of the original ms. My original wd count was 63,000. I got rid of a subplot she didn't like, tightened the ending and removed a few scenes.

I do think it's too short, but I don't like the idea of fluffing it up now that I have it so tight. It's like my style completely changed with this book.

Maybe a beta would help tell me where it's too fast/bare. I've held back on some of the characterization because I see this as a series and I want to be able to reveal more stuff as I go along; keep it fresh. But of course if I can't sell the first book it's gonna impact on the later books being pubbed. LOL.

Ryan_Sullivan · Jul 7, 2010

Well, the thing that the length would most signify is that somethings missing. It might be character development, it might be enough description to pull the reader in, and it might be missing intricacies and turns in the mystery. It's hard to diagnose, but at that length for an adult book, you might find that the mystery/suspense is fine, but the setting and character doesn't pull the reader in as much as you want.

Elaine Margarett · Jul 7, 2010

Ryan_Sullivan said:
It's hard to diagnose, but at that length for an adult book, you might find that the mystery/suspense is fine, but the setting and character doesn't pull the reader in as much as you want.

I suspect this may be the case. Sigh.

Ryan_Sullivan · Jul 7, 2010

Elaine Margarett said:
I suspect this may be the case. Sigh.

My suggestion, based on what I've heard, is to perhaps focus on adding some length to the beginning to set up the characters/places, so you can pull the reader in better, and then you don't have to worry about it as you proceed into the real action.

Think Murder, She Wrote--it always starts with like 10-15 minutes of setting everything up before the actual action occurs.

Danthia · Jul 8, 2010

You say it's mystery, but what subgenre? Cozies are often 60K-ish, thrillers are more like 90K. Big difference how far off you are depending on the genre. Pinpointing that might make it a little less daunting if you're not too far off. (Or give you a goal if you are far off)

One thing you can also think about, is what you can do to what's already there to flesh it out and deepen it. My agent once gave me a great piece if advice: "Don't go wider, go deeper." Don't try to add more stuff to the story, deepen what you already have so it works on more than one level and reinforces your themes.

Maybe use something you were holding back to add more meaning, or giving your protag a new quirk or hangup that you can play off of throughout the novel to add some more conflict. You're dead on about holding back if you never sell the book. Pull out all the stops, use the good stuff you came up with and really make this book sing. You'll have room to let your character grow as the series develops, and you'll discover even cooler things later.

I tend to write short in first drafts, and when I flesh out I edit in layers. Maybe something like that would work for you? I look through each chapter for one specific thing. I layer in dialog, setting, internalization, motivations, characterization, etc. I don't add stuff to just add stuff, but there are always spots where I can tweak the tension or use the setting to do more than just show what things look like, reinforce a goal, add a red herring.

Elaine Margarett · Jul 8, 2010

Danthia said:
You say it's mystery, but what subgenre? Cozies are often 60K-ish, thrillers are more like 90K. Big difference how far off you are depending on the genre. Pinpointing that might make it a little less daunting if you're not too far off. (Or give you a goal if you are far off)

One thing you can also think about, is what you can do to what's already there to flesh it out and deepen it. My agent once gave me a great piece if advice: "Don't go wider, go deeper." Don't try to add more stuff to the story, deepen what you already have so it works on more than one level and reinforces your themes.

Maybe use something you were holding back to add more meaning, or giving your protag a new quirk or hangup that you can play off of throughout the novel to add some more conflict. You're dead on about holding back if you never sell the book. Pull out all the stops, use the good stuff you came up with and really make this book sing. You'll have room to let your character grow as the series develops, and you'll discover even cooler things later. .

I've been thinking about this issue and had an epiphany. I have a subplot planned for the next book whose seeds I sowed in the first book. I can incorporate this subplot sooner rather than later which will enable me to add depth and and expand on characterization. The sublot will also give me the opportunity to have a secondary mystery as well. Is this acceptable within the genre?

Regarding whether or not it's cosy, I don't know. I pitched it as "Marley and Me meets Stephanie Plum." It's kinda funny; definately quirky, with some sexual chemistry mixed in with real life K9 search and rescue as a background. So would it be a "Women's Mystery?"

.[/QUOTE]I tend to write short in first drafts, and when I flesh out I edit in layers. Maybe something like that would work for you? I look through each chapter for one specific thing. I layer in dialog, setting, internalization, motivations, characterization, etc. I don't add stuff to just add stuff, but there are always spots where I can tweak the tension or use the setting to do more than just show what things look like, reinforce a goal, add a red herring.[/QUOTE]

This is a handy tip. I'll remember it. Thanks!

scope · Jul 8, 2010

Danthia said:
One thing you can also think about, is what you can do to what's already there to flesh it out and deepen it. My agent once gave me a great piece if advice: "Don't go wider, go deeper." Don't try to add more stuff to the story, deepen what you already have so it works on more than one level and reinforces your themes.

Danthia,

I REALLY like this. Great advice!

Thanks for sharing.

s

Rejection on a requested resubmit~

Elaine Margarett

High and Dry

Paranormal_Writer

Nearly always write!

scope

Commonsensical Maverick

veinglory

volitare nequeo

heyjude

Making my own sunshine

Danthia

Elaine Margarett

High and Dry

Ryan_Sullivan

Agented YA Writer

Elaine Margarett

High and Dry

Ryan_Sullivan

Agented YA Writer

Danthia

Elaine Margarett

High and Dry

scope

Commonsensical Maverick