Straight Spouses of QLTBAG folks

Bookewyrme · Jul 3, 2010

While surfing the web, I came across this website called the Straight Spouse Network. At first, this seemed like a neat thing, so I started reading about it to see what they were all about. Naturally, I started with the FAQ's. Two things have upset me (so far) in here. First, minorly, under the question "Is bisexuality a stepping-stone to being gay?" part of their answer was:

At its' simplest terms we at the Straight Spouse Network find it most helpful not to worry about what an individual "labels" themselves, it is more helpful to focus on behavior and healing.

I could be totally misinterpreting, but do they mean "healing" the Bi/gay/etc spouse?

What has really upset me however, is the question "Do I have to stay in his/her closet?" To which the website answers, essentially...not if you don't want to.
The FAQ's are here.
Am I over-reacting, or is this web-site really a bunch of hooey?

Vespertilion · Jul 3, 2010

Their mission statement has three bullet points, one of which is "healing."

Healing and empowering straight spouses to cope constructively

I could be misreading, but I think they mean to address any feelings of betrayal/anger/isolation the straight spouse might feel after their spouse comes out to them.

Deleted member 42 · Jul 3, 2010

Bookewyrme said:
I could be totally misinterpreting, but do they mean "healing" the Bi/gay/etc spouse?

It's for spouses who are exes. Quite often, especially for women in their thirties to fifties, a queer person doesn't realize he or she is queer. They end up divorcing, not necessarily because they are queer, but it is baffling and confusing and difficult, frequently, for the spouse who is left.

In some cases, the marriage remains in changed circumstances, but the "healing" means the straight spouse/ex is healing.

Bookewyrme · Jul 3, 2010

Hrm. Well, to be honest I was less worried about that part, which I thought I must have mis-interpreted until I got to the second part, about how it is ok to out your partner if you are uncomfortable helping them keep the lie. That squicked me out and made me re-evaluate the rest of the site. But...I dunno.

Deleted member 42 · Jul 3, 2010

Bookewyrme said:
Hrm. Well, to be honest I was less worried about that part, which I thought I must have mis-interpreted until I got to the second part, about how it is ok to out your partner if you are uncomfortable helping them keep the lie. That squicked me out and made me re-evaluate the rest of the site. But...I dunno.

Let me put it this way; they're not allies.

Shadow Dragon · Jul 3, 2010

In the FAQ, it does say that you can't change their orientation.

Deleted member 42 · Jul 3, 2010

Here's the thing: It's a site by and about and for straight people. That's the audience. They are not hostile, exactly, but they are not allies.

For a sample of what an ally site is like, that's still primarily for straight people, look at PFLAG.

semilargeintestine · Jul 3, 2010

My friend's ex-wife outed him to the entire country by going on Montel without telling him.

Yeshanu · Jul 7, 2010

semilargeintestine said:
My friend's ex-wife outed him to the entire country by going on Montel without telling him.

That's extreme, and an invasion of privacy.

However, I wouldn't expect my straight spouse to "keep my secret" from people who matter to him. It's a lot easier to tell the truth about why we separated than to make up lies, although the "She leaves crumbs in the butter/He leaves the cupboard doors open" complaints are a standing joke at our houses. :tongue

I read the answers to a few questions, and I think it's a helpful, if basic, site. When I came out to my family, there was a whole lot of confusion, fear, and anger that needed to be dealt with, though not nearly as much as I'd feared given that I was the last person to find out I was lesbian.

I'd say that site is a good first step for any spouse or other family member who isn't really up-to-date on their knowledge of the facts of queer life. There is hurt, finding out that the person you've been loving is not the person you actually fell in love with. Once the knowledge sinks in, then they may turn from "not hostile" (or even overtly hostile) to true allies.

I've watched this process in my own family over the last fifteen years. It's been a joy to know that healing has taken place, and is even more important to us now that my eldest son is out.

DrZoidberg · Jul 11, 2010

I understand the need for a site like this. My first real girlfriend left me for a woman. That's when I realized that all those threesomes wasn't her doing favours for me. It still hurt.

It's always nice to find other people on the net who have been in a similar situation to talk about it (whatever that situation may be). For a young man (like I was at the time) it can be quite emasculating. It took me years to admit this to myself. This was before the Internet but I doubt I'd have gone to a site like this anyway. I doubt they could do anything for my damaged heart that a good bottle of whisky couldn't fix just as well.

But being part of the kinky/queer community, I was quite aware of the need for sexual liberation issues, even at that age. And I was extremely pro-gay rights no matter how harshly my lesbian ex treated me.

One bizarre detail. I had a male friend who later came out of the closet as gay. My closeted lesbian girlfriend was only unfaithful once, and that was with my closeted gay friend. How confusing is that?

semilargeintestine · Jul 11, 2010

I can understand the need for a support network, but I don't think it's appropriate to talk about "fixing" anyone or even discussing outing anyone. That's disgusting.

Maxinquaye · Jul 11, 2010

I probably disagree. I'm not sure, tbh. But life in the closet is a destructive life - but not only for the person in the closet. A person in the closet is hiding, or lying about, one of the most essential cores of who s/he is. If that person enters into a relationship with someone, then that person is lying at a fundamental level to this person.

The why of it is clear, and understandable, but it is still a lie - and once the lie is exposed there will naturally be hurt, anger, fear, doubt about everything that the closeted person stands for. Which is part of the reason why closet life is so destructive.

For the person outed, hopefully the rest of his/her life will be eased now that the big secret is out. But for the persons that have been lied to and cheated, the anger and the hurt and the confusion will still be there.

I don't begrudge them a site that's not part of the qltbag-network to try and get back on their footing. It would be one thing if it was a homophic hatesite. But it's not. Just let it be, and let them try to find their footing again.

Gale Haut · Jul 11, 2010

I kind of get where Maxinquaye is coming from. It would be really painful for the spouse to have to come to terms with it, and on top of that to have to carry the burden of the GLBT spouse's secret--that might be the breaking point for most people. How obligated do you think they'd feel to the same person they might be blaming whatever emotional suffering they're going through? Outing their ex might not be the right thing to do, but I do get it. Especially considering how messy divorces can get under more typical circumstances.

semilargeintestine · Jul 11, 2010

Maxinquaye said:
I probably disagree.

With whom? If you're disagreeing with me, you're saying it's okay for someone to out their spouse without their permission or possibly knowledge? What happened to privacy and the right to be able to come out when and how I see fit?

I was in the closet for over 10 years, so I'm well aware of how destructive and ballsucky[SUP]*[/SUP] it is. That doesn't mean I want my family telling everyone under the sun that I'm a tranny waiting to get my tacklebox chopped off.

There's a difference between talking to people on an anonymous internet forum or even talking to a therapist. Those are healthy and should be used. In fact, I wish my parents would be willing to go to a group meeting or two so they could learn something. But, discussing how to "fix" my queerness or how to out me to serve your own interests is just wrong on many levels.

ETA: Timmy: It's not only "not the right thing to do," it's a shitty thing to do. It completely violates that person's right to privacy. If you don't want to keep the secret, tell a priest or a therapist or something. Don't go on Montel and tell the whole world or call someone's employer to out them (or many of the other ways you could potentially hurt someone, like telling all your friends). I'm pretty open about it because I think it's a special thing, but if I was trying to be stealth, and a friend or family member outed me, a letter explaining how shitty that is would be the last time they ever heard from me.

*Term courtesy of ScarletPeaches

Maxinquaye · Jul 11, 2010

No, I was - probably - disagreeing with the OP.

Bookewyrme said:
What has really upset me however, is the question "Do I have to stay in his/her closet?" To which the website answers, essentially...not if you don't want to.

There is actually quite a span between asking an ex to lie for the person they feel have cheated then and going on national TV.

ETA: The question, if it can be framed, from the POV of the ex is: "My ex lied to me, entered into a relationship with me, knowing that s/he can't love me, and then wasted months/years of my life for a lie. Am I obligated to do him/her any favours?" To which I answer, considering the nature of the situation, probably not. I need to think about it though.

semilargeintestine · Jul 11, 2010

Maxinquaye said:
No, I was - probably - disagreeing with the OP.

Fair enough.

There is actually quite a span between asking an ex to lie for the person they feel have cheated then and going on national TV.

ETA: The question, if it can be framed, from the POV of the ex is: "My ex lied to me, entered into a relationship with me, knowing that s/he can't love me, and then wasted months/years of my life for a lie. Am I obligated to do him/her any favours?" To which I answer, considering the nature of the situation, probably not. I need to think about it though.

Who says the queer person entered into said relationship with the knowledge that she can't love the other person? Perhaps, as I'm sure happens a lot, she entered into the relationship really thinking it was possible to love this person--and, perhaps it still is possible for her to love this person, albeit in a different way.

The only person who can decide if that time was wasted is you (not you specifically, of course). If no affair was committed, and the relationship was entered into earnestly, then there was no cheating. If you choose to feel that way, that's your problem to deal with, and the solution is not to hurt someone else.

Why do ethics seem to get thrown out the window when it comes to queers? People think it's perfectly fine to just stare at us, talk about us like we're not there, discriminate against us, etc. like we aren't even people.

Bookewyrme · Jul 11, 2010

Max, I see what you're saying. And I'm not saying there aren't situations where it might (big might) be alright not to keep the secret. However. The site covers more than just straight (heh.) up gay or lesbian spouses, but also bi spouses (I'm not sure that TG folks are covered specifically). Also, not all situations such as this result in divorce, or even bad relationships. If the person wants to stay in the closet, or even partially in the closet (e.g. telling certain people such as siblings but not coworkers, etc.) then I think it is the QLTBAG person's choice, and not the spouse or former spouse's choice in any way. They don't even have to lie, they just have to not talk about it!

Also, I think there's a huge difference between just not telling various people about your sexuality and outright denying it to everyone. Perhaps the latter is destructive. I've never been in that position. But the former is I think a fairly healthy way to go about things for some people. Sure, you could trumpet your sexuality from the rooftops, make it a part of your politics, career, family, etc. That's a choice some people make, and I applaud them. But that doesn't mean it is the right choice for everyone. And no one can know what the right choice is except that person themselves, and I think it is supremely unfair for anyone, even a spouse, to try and pre-empt that choice.

I'm getting a bit off-topic though. I have been slightly reassured about that website. It's not great, but it is what it is. And there are better ones out there, so it's not the only one or anything.
I'm still glad I brought it up though, because it seems to have sparked quite a little discussion around here about spouses.

Inkblot · Jul 11, 2010

Bookewyrme said:
Hrm. Well, to be honest I was less worried about that part, which I thought I must have mis-interpreted until I got to the second part, about how it is ok to out your partner if you are uncomfortable helping them keep the lie. That squicked me out and made me re-evaluate the rest of the site. But...I dunno.

This is an very difficult issue for both spouses and the children of gay people -- having to lie to friends and even relatives about the gay spouse/parent, having to keep secrets. The secretiveness makes the situation toxic in a way that "out" gay families don't experience.

My mother kept my father's secret for decades, but it didn't help either of them -- or any of us kids.

Inkblot · Jul 11, 2010

Bookewyrme said:
I could be totally misinterpreting, but do they mean "healing" the Bi/gay/etc spouse?

What has really upset me however, is the question "Do I have to stay in his/her closet?" To which the website answers, essentially...not if you don't want to.
The FAQ's are here.
Am I over-reacting, or is this web-site really a bunch of hooey?

When a bi/gay spouse has not been honest with the straight spouse (which is very often the case), even to the point of having sexual relations outside marriage, yes, a great deal of healing needs to take place. The straight spouse has been lied to and wounded and needs to heal. I've looked at that site before and even sent my mother to it. I've never seen anything on it that is anti-gay or suggests gay people should be changed. But the site does acknowledge the fact that when a gay person doesn't realize his orientation until after acquiring a straight spouse and children, painful repercussions can affect the whole family.

Inkblot · Jul 11, 2010

Yeshanu said:
I read the answers to a few questions, and I think it's a helpful, if basic, site. When I came out to my family, there was a whole lot of confusion, fear, and anger that needed to be dealt with, though not nearly as much as I'd feared given that I was the last person to find out I was lesbian.

I'd say that site is a good first step for any spouse or other family member who isn't really up-to-date on their knowledge of the facts of queer life. There is hurt, finding out that the person you've been loving is not the person you actually fell in love with. Once the knowledge sinks in, then they may turn from "not hostile" (or even overtly hostile) to true allies.

I've watched this process in my own family over the last fifteen years. It's been a joy to know that healing has taken place, and is even more important to us now that my eldest son is out.

My father came out almost 30 years ago (when AIDS was called "the gay man's disease"), leaving a marriage of 28 years. (I am one of five children.) That site would have been a valuable resource to my mother, who had felt so alone for so long with their secret. Once I found the book and the site, my mother was already through the worst, but it was still helpful.

Inkblot · Jul 11, 2010

Medievalist said:
Here's the thing: It's a site by and about and for straight people. That's the audience. They are not hostile, exactly, but they are not allies.

For a sample of what an ally site is like, that's still primarily for straight people, look at PFLAG.

They aren't hostile. But they often have painful issues to address as a direct result of the gay family member's orientation and how the coming out is accomplished. Issues of self-esteem ("he never really loved me"), issues of self-doubt ("how could I have been so wrong about him") issues of adultery, issues of keeping secrets or not keeping secrets.

The fact that a person is gay doesn't eliminate the need to deal with issues of lies and betrayal, and doesn't mean that divorce will be trouble-free.

Inkblot · Jul 11, 2010

semilargeintestine said:
I can understand the need for a support network, but I don't think it's appropriate to talk about "fixing" anyone or even discussing outing anyone. That's disgusting.

Nowhere does this site talk about fixing anyone.

Suppose we are talking about actual adultery. Do you think it's okay to "out" a straight spouse as a cheater, but not a gay spouse?

Or do you think all spouses of people who have had sex outside the marriage are obligated to keep this a secret?

Deleted member 42 · Jul 11, 2010

Inkblot said:
They aren't hostile. But they often have painful issues to address as a direct result of the gay family member's orientation and how the coming out is accomplished. Issues of self-esteem ("he never really loved me"), issues of self-doubt ("how could I have been so wrong about him") issues of adultery, issues of keeping secrets or not keeping secrets.

Exactly.

There are a fair number of people who identify as queer long after they've been married. Often they remain in a monogamous relationship. They are out to themselves, possibly out to a spouse, or therapist, but they decided that they are in fact happy in their relationship. This is particularly common, statistically, with those who realize late in life that they are bisexual.

It gets to be a problem, however, if the queer-identifying spouse or partner is not monogamous, and continues sexual activity with the spouse. That's part of what's behind the question "Do I have to stay in his/her closet?"

It can be unhealthy, even dangerous for the heterosexual spouse if the queer spouse is sexually active with other partners as well.

It's not safe, especially if anyone isn't practicing safe sex.

It's also a problem if the queer spouse expects the other spouse to lie.

It's also not unknown in the queer communities for someone to be still married, still having sex with a spouse, and sexually active with same-sex partners--without being honest about being married. There's a lot of potential problems in that scenario, as well.

These are hard, tricky issues, and do require honesty and ethics and careful thought to feelings all around.

Inkblot · Jul 11, 2010

Bookewyrme said:
If the person wants to stay in the closet, or even partially in the closet (e.g. telling certain people such as siblings but not coworkers, etc.) then I think it is the QLTBAG person's choice, and not the spouse or former spouse's choice in any way. They don't even have to lie, they just have to not talk about it!

If the closeted person cheated on his or her spouse, I don't think the spouse has any obligation to keep that a secret -- any more than if a straight person cheated on a spouse.

Deleted member 42 · Jul 11, 2010

It's devastating to answer the phone call and speak to a stranger who tells you that you need to be tested for an STD because your spouse has, unbeknownst to you, been exploring his new-found sexuality.

This is unfortunately not that uncommon.

There are numerous variations to this as a theme--like my lesbian friend whose newly out girlfriend did not tell her that she'd was married to a philandering spouse, and was still sexually active with him, and with her girlfriend.

When we have sex with someone, they, and we, are metaphorically having sex with every sexual partner either has ever had.

Straight Spouses of QLTBAG folks

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