Gay characters in fantasy

Rhys Cordelle · Jun 30, 2010

Hi all

My WIP has (so far) two gay men and one gay woman as significant characters in the story. The strange thing is, I feel like I can more easily write the womans part than the mens, even though I'm a gay male myself. I guess it's because her attitude towards her sexuality most closely mirrors mine in that she's comfortable with identifying as gay, but she struggles with shrugging off other peoples negative perceptions of homosexuality.

With the men, one of them is sort of in denial about it, which is something that I never experienced myself. I knew I was gay when I was 12 and never questioned it or even tried to have a straight relationship. So I have concerns about making this character feel genuine. He knows that he's different, and that he's not interested in courting women, but he does it anyway because that's what's expected of him. How do you think his thinking should go? Should he be attracted to men but try to ignore it? Should he not even look at men in that way? Or should he be well aware of it but terrified of being noticed?

My third character, the other man, is someone who loves to be in the spotlight. I wouldn't call him flamboyant by modern standards, but for the conservative setting that he lives in he definitely stands out. While he is cautious about letting the 'wrong people' know he's gay, he is very good at shrugging off negative criticism (that good old "fuck you" attitude). I see him as having a little bit of Lafayette from True Blood in his nature, but in a more subtle way. (e.g. No slamming "AIDS burgers" into peoples faces :Thumbs:

much as I would love to do that). The thing is, though, I have to take into account that this is not earth, and it is not a modern setting, so he can't be going around calling people 'gurl' and all that, but I still want his speech to reflect his nature. Do you have any suggestions for how to write a character like this? Any help would be mucho appreciated.

ui888888888887iuk <-- This interruption brought to you by my cat walking across my keyboard. :Wha:

I really don't want to portray these guys as stereotypes. The guys will end up in a relationship, which they both choose to keep private, because they'd be putting themselves at risk if it was made common knowledge. I wanted to avoid having the "flamboyant" guy drag the shy guy out of the closet, because I think that's a pretty common scenario in gay fiction.

haystackbat · Jun 30, 2010

I think having the three perspectives (the in-denial, the comfortable-but-occasionally-struggling, and the confident-and-proud) would make for a really interesting cross-section of gay self-image. Having the more "flamboyant" man drag the shy one out of the closet sounds positively romanticky-cute to me (rife with dramatic possibility!) but then again I've not often . . . well, ever . . . read anything that I'd call "gay fiction". The closest thing I've got is a sexuality-confused character with way too many more pressing matters going on for her to explore that (cop-out on my less-than-knowledgeable heterosexual part? Possibly).
Also, the "AIDS-burgers" scene was brilliant, hopefully you can work a teensy bit of that attitude into at least one of your characters, because it's so gratifying to read/watch it!
Good luck with your characters =D

Rhys Cordelle · Jun 30, 2010

Thanks haystack

Yeah, I fell in love with Lafayette when he did that. He's the strongest gay character I've seen on television. So full of self confidence, but without being an arrogant prick about it *cough* Brian Kenni *cough*

The thing about the shy character is I want him to find the courage to come out for himself. I don't want the other character to do it for him. I know what you mean about the dramatic possibilities, but I don't think it's right for this story.

Thanks for your input

EDIT: Oh and regarding your sexually confused character, I wouldn't call that a cop out. I think it's entirely reasonable that figuring out her sexual identity would take a back seat in times of crisis. I think it's enough that you show her as sexually confused, you don't need to carry that through to a lesbian relationship or anything. It doesn't always work out that way, after all.

thothguard51 · Jun 30, 2010

Rhys,

I have a similar problem in my third book of a fantasy series. My main MC and his son are always butting heads. They love each other but they don't understand each other. As a writer, I kept questioning what the conflict was. A gay writer friend of mine who beta read excerpts suggested that the problem could be that the son is gay and does not know it yet, or is in denial.

I thought about this and I think my friend hit it right on the head. This makes for a very interesting secondary conflict to the larger story. My problem is that I am heterosexual and I don't want to present this as stereotypical tripe.

The mother and his twin sister suspect he is gay but no one has openly discussed it, or talked to the father about it. The son is also the next in line to a distant throne from his mothers side of the family and so his sexuality will be kept a secret and he will even have to take a mate in future books to produce an heir.

How obvious is it generally in writing when a straight man writes gay characters? I am not looking for comic relief characters, like gay elf's or something. This is a good character who will have a very major role in future books in the series. (If I ever get that far that is...)

Rhys Cordelle · Jun 30, 2010

Gay elfs? Have you been playing Dragon Age?

I think the idea of a gay character having to "do his duty" to produce an heir has a lot of potential. How would he treat his wife? Would he love her in a non sexual way? Would he cheat on her? Would he care if she cheated on him? As far as being a straight guy writing a gay character, I don't think you have to worry too much about that. It's only when you have a specific idea of what that character is like that you need to be cautious of avoiding stereotypes. A gay character can potentially be written as a "straight guy that has sex with guys" and it would be believable, because there are plenty of people like that. But if this boys sexuality is what's causing the conflict between him and his father, then his sexuality must be something that he attributes importance to.

I think a good tip for writing a believable gay character would be to treat him as a "normal" male character, but give him some characteristics that are considered feminine. E.g. If someone comes to him with a crisis, he is more likely to offer sympathy than solutions. Or maybe he is someone who is quite comfortable talking about their emotions. Perhaps he doesn't show any interest in combat or sport. Try to avoid the cliches though, like gushing over the latest fashions or squealing in the face of danger.

In my case, the shy guy is under pressure to marry and produce an heir too (not to be royalty, just of a wealthy family in which he is the only son). But he chooses his relationship with the other guy over duty to his family.

thothguard51 · Jun 30, 2010

Rhys...

Very good questions about how he will treat his wife. These are all things I am going to have to deal with...

While he is a sensitive character, at this point in his life, he likes to go out with the guys, hunting, fishing, sword work, horseback riding, that type of thing. He really is not into fashion or anything like that, though he is accomplished in music and poetry. So far, he has not shown any interest in girls and his sister and mother suspect he may be gay. They are also two of his biggest defenders, especially the sister as they are twins.

I plan on writing him like any other character, but once his sexuality is exposed, I am not sure how he is going to explore it because of his position. If I remember right, Longshank's son was gay, as where a few other English and European nobility.

I think for me, this is going to be a very interesting character and I just want to do him right...

thothguard51 · Jun 30, 2010

PS...

Don't mean to derail your thread from your questions...

Rhys Cordelle · Jun 30, 2010

Cool. That sounds like you have a well rounded character there. Poetry is a good one because it's one of those things that gives him a softer side, without hitting us over the head with flamboyant behavior. Honestly, I'd say just carry on writing him as you have been. As far as how he deals with his sexuality, maybe he wouldn't really have to. If he concedes that his duty must come first, then maybe he will hold on tightly to that duty, and never explore his sexuality. An interesting alternative might be if he has a roll in the hay with a guy before he commits to his duty, just to see what it would be like.

thothguard51 · Jun 30, 2010

I think he is going to have to experience something, otherwise I think I would be cheating his character. Just not sure yet how or where it will come about.

I have thought about maybe a soldier/officer he respects who suspects he is gay. They become a team sort of and the soldier knows he will have to have other duties and even tries to help him see it as a duty that is bigger than their relationship... Or something like that...

Rhys Cordelle · Jun 30, 2010

Ooh, and then he has the soldier as a castle guard, and the temptation is there for secret liaisons?

I want to read this book, haha.

AyJay · Jun 30, 2010

Rhys Cordelle said:
With the men, one of them is sort of in denial about it, which is something that I never experienced myself. I knew I was gay when I was 12 and never questioned it or even tried to have a straight relationship. So I have concerns about making this character feel genuine. He knows that he's different, and that he's not interested in courting women, but he does it anyway because that's what's expected of him. How do you think his thinking should go? Should he be attracted to men but try to ignore it? Should he not even look at men in that way? Or should he be well aware of it but terrified of being noticed?

My third character, the other man, is someone who loves to be in the spotlight. I wouldn't call him flamboyant by modern standards, but for the conservative setting that he lives in he definitely stands out. While he is cautious about letting the 'wrong people' know he's gay, he is very good at shrugging off negative criticism (that good old "fuck you" attitude). I see him as having a little bit of Lafayette from True Blood in his nature, but in a more subtle way. (e.g. No slamming "AIDS burgers" into peoples faces much as I would love to do that). The thing is, though, I have to take into account that this is not earth, and it is not a modern setting, so he can't be going around calling people 'gurl' and all that, but I still want his speech to reflect his nature. Do you have any suggestions for how to write a character like this? Any help would be mucho appreciated.

Rhys - I was in the closet in my teens so I may be able to help you out a little with your in-denial character.

You could go way into denial/repression (as I was for a time) and give him glimpses of being attracted to men but have him rationalize them--it's just a phase-- or overcompensate by pursuing women and making fun of gay people. Or you could go more subtle, have him self-acknowledge that he has this attraction but swear himself to secrecy, making him sort of asexual. Or he could be in a place of conditional acceptance - "being gay doesn't define me," "it's nobody's business," and have him engage in a few clandestine affairs. I think in any case, your latter question rings true - if he's ashamed of being gay, he would be hyperaware/paranoid about his mannerisms, getting caught looking at other guys, anything that could bring attention to his attraction.

I can't help much with the latter, more out character, not having read your story and not being familiar with such portrayals in fantasy. The only character that comes to mind is Chris Tucker in The Fifth Element, who was this futuristic, flamboyant sort of celebrity reporter (and strangely as flaming as he was, he was supposedly straight).

I agree that the contrast between the three gay characters sounds like a nice element in the story.

Rhys Cordelle · Jun 30, 2010

Thanks AyJay, some great advice there

I think I might go with a combination of your suggestions. At the start of the novel he could have the "it's just a phase" attitude, and then move on to conditional acceptance.

The "sort of asexual" route could also work really well.

thothguard51 · Jun 30, 2010

But would going the asexual route not being cheating the character of his character?

friendlyhobo · Jun 30, 2010

thothguard51 said:
But would going the asexual route not being cheating the character of his character?

Not if there is character growth in the story. The story can start with asexual (I was like that when I was a teenager and started realizing I was a lesbian) and the character can come to terms and grow. Which is always great in stories when paired with falling in love

Rhys Cordelle · Jun 30, 2010

thothguard51 said:
But would going the asexual route not being cheating the character of his character?

Yeah, I just meant as a temporary thing. I spent my high school years as an "asexual". I knew I was gay, but I didn't do anything about it, and I didn't even take steps to make people think I was straight. I just avoided the whole issue.

So I can see it as a good stepping stone in his journey to acceptance.

Friendlyhobo, every time I see your avatar I think I'm looking at something rude ><

friendlyhobo · Jun 30, 2010

You are looking at a really tall plastic statue from the Juicy Couture in San Fransisco.
My friends who were edited out, on the other hand, were doing something rude. To the statue.

kuwisdelu · Jul 1, 2010

Well, Gimli, where are those dwarf women you keep talking about, huh?

Mr Flibble · Jul 1, 2010

I think the idea of a gay character having to "do his duty" to produce an heir has a lot of potential. How would he treat his wife? Would he love her in a non sexual way? Would he cheat on her?

Rhys, I'm going to tell you this one more time....

STOP STEALING MY STUFF!!!!

/end derail

Deleted member 42 · Jul 1, 2010

Keep in mind that asexual is not the same as celibate / chaste.

Asexual means no sexual response or feelings at all. It does not mean that there's no emotional response--just that sexual feelings are not there for anyone of any sort at all.

http://www.asexuality.org/home/

Gale Haut · Jul 1, 2010

A big fat LMAO at the cat thing. ^.^

I'm working on a fantasy that features a gay protagonist as well. So I know what you're going through.

Yours sounds really interesting, though. Make sure to let us know if you put it up for critique. I'd love to give it a look.

Here are my thoughts...

Rhys Cordelle said:
How do you think his thinking should go? Should he be attracted to men but try to ignore it? Should he not even look at men in that way? Or should he be well aware of it but terrified of being noticed?

Yes! People or complicated, let him make those decisions case by case. Maybe he has a way of dealing with it that he falls back on. I really don't think there's a right way to be in the closet, sense being in the closet is not the right way.

Rhys Cordelle said:
...but I still want his speech to reflect his nature. Do you have any suggestions for how to write a character like this?

Do women speak differently in this world than men do? You can still use some stereotypes to characterize him if you want. After all, the people on this world will still be speaking in English, I assume. I think of fantasy worlds as being these bizarre places juxtaposed to us that borrow things from us at the author's convenience. Of course, you could come up with some unique slang specific to your fantasy world that has the same effect.

I hope your writing is going well!

Timmy

Deleted member 42 · Jul 1, 2010

kuwisdelu said:
Well, Gimli, where are those dwarf women you keep talking about, huh?

There's a letter about that . . . and the beards thing? That's totally Jackson.

MacAllister · Jul 1, 2010

Rhys Cordelle said:
I think a good tip for writing a believable gay character would be to treat him as a "normal" male character, but give him some characteristics that are considered feminine. E.g. If someone comes to him with a crisis, he is more likely to offer sympathy than solutions. Or maybe he is someone who is quite comfortable talking about their emotions. Perhaps he doesn't show any interest in combat or sport. Try to avoid the cliches though, like gushing over the latest fashions or squealing in the face of danger.

Rhys Cordelle said:
Poetry is a good one because it's one of those things that gives him a softer side, without hitting us over the head with flamboyant behavior.

See, this sort of thing just pisses me off to no end in fiction. Rhys, you talk about avoiding obvious stereotypes, but then everything you recommend is so terribly cliched and limited; so I'm honestly not very happy to see anyone suggesting that a gay male character must of necessity be written as effeminate, soft, emotional, bad at sports, and so on. Especially not here. What on earth? We're not sick to death enough of these ridiculous stereotypes and overdone tropes? We're going to perpetrate them further?

Gale Haut · Jul 1, 2010

Rhys Cordelle said:
Yeah, I just meant as a temporary thing. I spent my high school years as an "asexual". I knew I was gay, but I didn't do anything about it, and I didn't even take steps to make people think I was straight. I just avoided the whole issue.

So I can see it as a good stepping stone in his journey to acceptance.

Friendlyhobo, every time I see your avatar I think I'm looking at something rude ><

Sounds to me like a good experience to draw from.

BenPanced · Jul 1, 2010

Rhys Cordelle said:
I think a good tip for writing a believable gay character would be to treat him as a "normal" male character, but give him some characteristics that are considered feminine. E.g. If someone comes to him with a crisis, he is more likely to offer sympathy than solutions. Or maybe he is someone who is quite comfortable talking about their emotions. Perhaps he doesn't show any interest in combat or sport.

Really? Honestly and truly? Here? In this neck of the woods?

Try to avoid the cliches though, like gushing over the latest fashions or squealing in the face of danger.

And a feminine male who is quite comfortable talking about his feelings and doesn't show interest in combat or sport avoids these cliches HOW?

Gale Haut · Jul 1, 2010

MacAllister said:
See, this sort of thing just pisses me off to no end in fiction - it's cliched and limited; so I'm honestly not very happy to see anyone suggesting that a gay character must of necessity be written as effeminate, soft, emotional and so on. What on earth? We're not sick to death enough of these ridiculous stereotypes and overdone tropes? We're going to perpetrate them further?

Hrn.

Have you heard of The Steel Remains by Richard K. Morgan? I'm reading it right now and the MC is a very typical warrior that doesn't take anyone's bullshit. Oh, and he just happens to be gay. I've been researching the genre for books that have that kind of character for the last few months and this is the first thing I've come across that grabbed me.

You might wanna check it out. An award winning author and all that jazz.

Gay characters in fantasy

Rhys Cordelle

haystackbat

Rhys Cordelle

thothguard51

A Gentleman of a refined age...

Rhys Cordelle

thothguard51

A Gentleman of a refined age...

thothguard51

A Gentleman of a refined age...

Rhys Cordelle

thothguard51

A Gentleman of a refined age...

Rhys Cordelle

AyJay

Luv's Conscript

Rhys Cordelle

thothguard51

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friendlyhobo

Rhys Cordelle

friendlyhobo

kuwisdelu

Revolutionize the World

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

Deleted member 42

Gale Haut

waxing digital artistic

Deleted member 42

MacAllister

'Twas but a dream of thee

Gale Haut

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BenPanced

THE BLUEBERRY QUEEN OF HADES (he/him)

Gale Haut

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