Outlander - by Diana Gabaldon

****** SPOILERS *******

If you haven't read the book, then you might want to skip this thread, because I'm discussing major plot points.

Ok, I was attracted to this book because of the time travel element, and I went in knowing it was written by a woman, with women being the primary intended audience. The sex scenes in the book are, in general, fairly tame, and might be considered erotic if you're into that highlander thing.

There's two scenes I'd like to discuss. The first one is where he beats her. Ok, spanks her. That one I get. As much as women are up in arms about spousal abuse, there's still the fantasy about being spanked. It works in a literary environment.

But the scene that really threw me for a loop was when the leading man gets raped by another man. Seriously? Is this something women are fantasizing about? The last 1/6th of the book is her nursing him over his trauma. Again, is this something that women dream about? Do they meet a guy and think, you know, I'd love to help him recover from being a** f*****?

I'm just not getting it. This book is obviously very popular, since it has about a gazillion sequels. And I don't think too many men are reading past the first one.

Any insights?

BTW, the time travel aspect of the story blows.

CheekyWench said:

Rape wasn't between the heroine and the hero. It was the villain in the story who did this - and it becomes integral to his development as a character. (see also, the opium scene later on when he tries to waste away or die because he feels less than a man and she has to "save" him.)

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Yes, that's why I said he was raped by another man.

CheekyWench said:

The spanking scene earlier was indicative of the time they were in. Women were not equal to men, and Jamie was the man in that time.

They aren't erotic, the book isn't erotica by any means and I'm confused as to why it's in this forum.

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I brought it up here to talk about it from the perspective of erotica. I was curious if woman found that to be a turn on.

And if a book has sex scenes in it, I'm not sure how you can say it isn't erotica by any means.

scarletpeaches said:

I had more of a problem with the beating scene. It was not a spanking.

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I came away from that scene with the feeling the author enjoyed it thoroughly. I bet she was typing one-handed for most of it.

scarletpeaches said:

As for the anal submission scene? I completely understood why he did it.

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Sure, it made sense in terms of plot, but my question is more related to why it was put in a book directed towards women?

scarletpeaches said:

I'm as confused as CheekyWench as to why this is in the erotica forum. It definitely is not of this genre.

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I disagree. While it may not be pure erotica, it does have erotic elements.

firedrake said:

Um....other genres can have erotic/sex scenes in them.
A sex scene doth not an erotica novel make.

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I never said it was an erotica novel.

CheekyWench said:

The erotica forum is for books who are in the erotica genre.

Welcome to AW and don't forget to read the Newbie Guide, taking special notice to post #2.

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So, you're allowed to talk about the sex scene from Titanic here, but I'm not allowed to talk about Outlander?

Please take the stick out of your ass.

scarletpeaches said:

I don't read Gabaldon's books because they turn me on sexually. I read them 'cause she's a damn good writer.

Being aroused certainly isn't a factor in my choosing to read Cross Stitch (as is its UK title) nor in my following her career since her first book was originally published in this country.You think her books are erotic? Hmm.

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Personally? No, I'm not into highlanders getting raped by other men.

scarletpeaches said:

Sex is a part of life. People do it. Jamie and Claire do it quite a lot. One-handed typing? Uh...no. Just...not something I imagine Gabaldon doing.Oh, here's a crazy idea - it was relevant to the story?

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About as relevant as the Loch Ness Monster scene.

scarletpeaches said:

And why on Earth wouldn't it be put in a book directed at women? We don't need protecting from that sort of thing.Jamie and Claire are married. It's okay; it's allowed.It isn't. It just isn't.

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You need protected from men raping other men?

scarletpeaches said:

Gabaldon writes noisy, messy, dirty, stupid, embarrassing, desperate, sweaty, animalistic, romantic, loving, violent sex. Her work appeals to all five senses and doesn't romanticise everyday life in the 18th century. She has fans because of this - I am one. My autographed copy of An Echo in the Bone is one of my most treasured possessions.

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Well, I agree with the stupid part.

firedrake said:

You really need to read the stickies before you start smart-mouthing people. Not exactly the best way to endear yourself as a new member, is it?

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So, why are others allowed to talk about Titanic, but I'm not allowed to talk about Outlander?

scarletpeaches said:

At the risk of being anally twigged, I will say this:

Cross Stitch is marketed as historical, or romantic fiction. Not erotica.

Having sex in a book may make some pages individually erotic, but no - sex in a book does not erotica make.

As for the Titanic hand? That was mentioned in a thread specifically geared towards discussing which little details in film ramp up the heat index. How we, as erotica authors can pay attention to the details, translate them into words and leave the reader breathless.

Gabaldon's books are not geared to the erotica market. Hell, Claire's a nurse and they're not fucking medical textbooks.

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But if the Titanic hand can be discussed, why not Jamie being raped?

If the rules here are that it must be complete erotica we're discussing, then let's follow them.

You know what, I just came on here to discuss an erotic aspect of a story, and it seems the clique here doesn't like that.

Ok, have fun you guys. I won't bother you any more.