Illustrator wanted to collaborate

wqw · Sep 1, 2005

Hi, all,

I need some ink drawings for a manuscript I've written. I do not have an agent or publisher, so there are no guarantees and no $ offered. It would be strictly collaborative.

It's a fairly sophisticated young adult story, and I'm looking for someone who can do ink drawings, little or no color, with a medieval look, and some wit, like A.A. Milne's Once On A Time, but not Winnie the Pooh. (Hint: A realistic castle wall with portcullis will be relevant, as well as characters and crowds.)

If you are an illustrator, or can kindly pass this along to one you know, here's how I would like to handle this so there are no misunderstandings, hurt feelings, or lawsuits

1. Please send sample images, or web links, to my email address below. (*Disclaimer* I am just a writer looking for drawings. I can't be responsible for anything that happens to your artwork, so while I promise here not to use anything you send in any way that we don't agree upon, don't send anything you're worried about someone copying. Also, needless to say but I'll say it, anything unrelated and ANY advertising will get the sender put on my spam list.)

2. If I don't think your illustrations are a fit, I will send you a polite reply letting you know. You are more than welcome to follow up with a different style, but at some point please take a hint.

3. If I think there's potential, I will ask for some rough sketches based on my specific need for this story. If there is promise, I will send you the story so you can give me your thoughts and further sketches.

4. If things seem to work for us both, we agree to whatever is the industry standard for rights and percentages for an author and illustrator, before we complete the project. This may take getting outside advice. Let's agree to what's best for us both.

5. We both put forth our best effort to get the final result published. I very much prefer, as I'm sure you do, not to self-publish.

And that's it. Sorry if this seems very formal, but I think it's the best way to cover all the bases.

Thank you. I look forward to all relevant replies, sent to:

[email protected]

Sincerely,

Joseph Conklin

Torgo · Sep 1, 2005

Hi Joseph. It's not usually advisable to bring a project to a publisher with illustrations already attached; in fact it usually makes it a harder sell. With the way you are describing it, the book will sell on the text alone - the illustrations are not going to go very far to persuade someone to buy it.

I think, also, that you may have difficulty in persuading professional illustrators to work on spec. Amateur illustrators are sometimes great, but sometimes... not.

wqw · Sep 1, 2005

Hi, Torgo, thanks for replying,

Why do you say that illustrations make a harder sell? I thought it would be a plus. Let's say I did the illustrations myself- I'd want to pass them along with the ms, wouldn't I? Please explain further, I'm very interested as I haven't dealt with this before.

I was counting on an amateur. That's why I went through all the rigmarole. There must be some good amateurs out there.

Joseph Conklin

Richard · Sep 1, 2005

Simple answer: The publisher will want to pick their own artist, working to their own specifications.

Torgo · Sep 1, 2005

Richard's right. Also, it just complicates things - you might get a good text with horrible art, and if the author's very wedded to it it means there are all sorts of things to untangle.

Ray Dillon · Sep 11, 2005

I've always been concerned with that, since I want to illustrate my own books. Is that at all possible? I mean, Holly Black and Tony Diterlizzi did it with the Spiderwick Chronicles, but he was already a big name is kid's book illustrating. I want control of the entire look of the book, from the cover to the page numbers. Am I going to be very dissapointed? I am a professional artist, but will any publishers care? Should I try making it in to a particular publisher as an artist and then coming in with a book?

Not meaning to hijack the thread, but it's kinda relevent.

triceretops · Sep 11, 2005

Yep, art department takes care of it. You can suggest, but don't render. Now, Photographs are a whole different ball game--you can take those and use them in your non-fic books. I took 52 for one of mine

Anybody know if Joanne Rowling actually submitted her own artwork to the publishers before/after the fact? She is quite a good little artist and did many b/w illios of her characters.

Tri

Ray Dillon · Sep 11, 2005

Maybe I'm a control freak, but I would almost rather publish it myself than trust someone else to make the book look a certain way.

Tish Davidson · Sep 11, 2005

Ray Dillon said:
I've always been concerned with that, since I want to illustrate my own books. Is that at all possible? I mean, Holly Black and Tony Diterlizzi did it with the Spiderwick Chronicles, but he was already a big name is kid's book illustrating. I want control of the entire look of the book, from the cover to the page numbers. Am I going to be very dissapointed? I am a professional artist, but will any publishers care? Should I try making it in to a particular publisher as an artist and then coming in with a book?

Not meaning to hijack the thread, but it's kinda relevent.

If you feel that you have to control the illustration, you will have to self-publish. Publishers control the cover art, interior art, and often the title. They have specific requirements related to marketing and making books fit into particular lines or age categories. If you take your attitude toward controling the art to a publisher, it is going to mark you not only as a real amateur, but as someone who will be hard to work with. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but that's the reality of publishing. If you don't like it, self-publish, then don't complain if you don't sell as many books as you would like.

Ray Dillon · Sep 11, 2005

I'm not sure why you felt you had to explain it with that tone and those remarks, but I take your point. It's nearly impossible for someone, especially a newcomer to have control over anything, and publishers are likely to look badly on someone who requests it. Gotcha.

Thanks for your response.

KTC · Sep 11, 2005

Ray Dillon,
I saw your artwork on your website. I don't know about illustrated books, but if you were to show a publisher your artwork alongside your MS, I think they'd be crazy to turn you down. They might want control, but they would also want the best. Show them your work.

triceretops · Sep 11, 2005

Ray, you might be an exception to this rule due to the quality of your artwork. I certainly don't think it would be of any harm to show your renderings.

Tri

Inspired · Sep 12, 2005

It's easier to get your own illustrating accepted with your own manuscript than it is to get your manuscript accepted with someone else's illustrations. Most publishers don't want to hassle with two contracts that are so bound to each other already, but they will work with an author/illustrator who does all his own work. Not all publishers, mind you, but many.

Torgo · Sep 12, 2005

Ray,
There was a book that I saw in a very early stage, out of the slush pile, from a graphic designer who'd written a heavily illustrated novel. I thought the design and drawing was brilliant, but the book itself was very clunky, and suggested we pass on it and maybe get the author in to do some art for us.

Luckily, there are cleverer people than me where I work, and we signed him up. A lot of editorial and design hours were put in, and the results were terrific. Film deals, the lot. It is possible to sell a book with your own illustrations attached, and retain a great deal of influence over the look of the finished product. In the case of picture books, this is quite usual - although the true author-illustrator is a rare and precious beast.

What I will say is that it's a riskier business than establishing yourself to begin with as an author or an illustrator. The example I gave above shows how it can be a good thing, but in order for that to work you need to be a very good and very commercial artist. If slightly dodgy art is attached to a manuscript, and there's an unwillingness to be flexible about it, then a good book can be sunk.

From a look at your site, I would have thought that wouldn't be a problem, as long as you submit to houses that have published illustrated books in that style. Really studying the marketplace will help you put together a more targeted and enticing proposal.

Ray Dillon · Sep 12, 2005

Wow. Thanks alot, guys. I appreciate the kind words!

It's easier to get your own illustrating accepted with your own manuscript than it is to get your manuscript accepted with someone else's illustrations. Most publishers don't want to hassle with two contracts that are so bound to each other already, but they will work with an author/illustrator who does all his own work. Not all publishers, mind you, but many.

Well, that's good to know. It's something, at least.

From a look at your site, I would have thought that wouldn't be a problem, as long as you submit to houses that have published illustrated books in that style. Really studying the marketplace will help you put together a more targeted and enticing proposal.

Thanks! Yeah, I'm definitely going to research and pull as many contacts as I can before submitting. I'll also be working in a more familiar style to other kid's fiction and fantasy.

I'm also going to work a bit more on illustrating other author's books to hopefully build a rapport with some publishers to increase my chances at making it happen. I'd be fine with doing just the art on a bunch of books until they were ready to give me the reins on a book of my own. I'll just keep writing, keep drawing, and see where it goes.

Sorry wqw, I really should have just started a new thread. Really didn't expect this kind of response to the topic.

victoriastrauss · Sep 13, 2005

wqw said:
Why do you say that illustrations make a harder sell? I thought it would be a plus. Let's say I did the illustrations myself- I'd want to pass them along with the ms, wouldn't I?

Not if it were a YA or adult novel. Fiction for adults and young adults is rarely illustrated anymore.

For children's picture books, there are many author-illustrators. Your art needs to be professional, though. Friends of mine used to run a small children's publisher--I've seen their slush pile, and it was painful.

- Victoria

Jamesaritchie · Sep 19, 2005

Illustrations

Inspired is right. Publishers usually do not want writers to bring in an illustrator, but a writer who can illustrate his own work in a professional manner is a different story. It certainly does no harm to ask.

RuthMB · Oct 1, 2005

I was counting on an amateur. That's why I went through all the rigmarole. There must be some good amateurs out there.

Why would you want an amateur?
First, they won't help sell your book to publishers.
Second, they won't help sell it to the audience.

Illustration is a professional field. There are thousands of amateurs clogging up the works, but if the work isn't professional, they won't get any assignments.
You get what you pay for. Go for the best. Your book is worth it, right?

Grey Malkin · Oct 12, 2005

Hello all, newbie here.

Going back to the original thread, I'd like to agree that Joseph might be best off submitting the text and saying that this is intended for an illustrated picture book. Getting an agents isn't easy to begin with; they might have room for one more writer on their books. If you apply as a team that means taking on two clients instead of one.

Being a writer/illustrator is different. I've got a background in illustration, but an agent was shocked, when I recently told her that I'd quite like to see what someone else could do with my text.

It's is all to do with trust and faith in another professional, and realising that others might know more about illustration than you (and I include myself here, which is why I made the suggestion).

Looking for amateur illustrators is another problem. If an agent wants to take you on, he'll want to believe you are both professional and can produce more of the same. In addition, a professional illustrator, with a track record and decent portfolio is less likely to succumb to cliches, or the obvious answers that an amateur might. In most cases, writers who put their trust in professional illustrators won't only be impressed with the result, they'll realise that they never even considered what the illustrator has produced as a possibility.

One more point, and I promise to shut up, another consideration to think about is market trends. You might hate contemporary illustration and prefer hyper-realism, but an agent, taking that decision for you, could help your work swim rather than sink.

Best of luck with the project.

ps - Ray: some wicked artwork on your site. Stunning. Hit me back

Colin M
http://www.colinmulhern.co.uk

aruna · Oct 12, 2005

Hey Colin your illustrations aren't half bad either!

Illustrator wanted to collaborate

wqw

Torgo

Formerly Phantom of Krankor.

wqw

Richard

13th Triskaidekaphobe

Torgo

Formerly Phantom of Krankor.

Ray Dillon

Artist & Writer

triceretops

Ray Dillon

Artist & Writer

Tish Davidson

Ray Dillon

Artist & Writer

KTC

Stand in the Place Where You Live

triceretops

Inspired

Torgo

Formerly Phantom of Krankor.

Ray Dillon

Artist & Writer

victoriastrauss

Writer Beware Goddess

Jamesaritchie

RuthMB

Grey Malkin

Moody Member

aruna

On a wing and a prayer