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kyliesmiley16
06-23-2010, 12:30 PM
So I'm new, with questions bursting out of my mind about my current WIP in its editing stages. I had intended to post a little more and get to know the place before asking so much, but I can't hold back longer. :) I've done the hunt and found other useful threads, but alas, I want to know more... Story is set in Australia, but I'm quite sure other countries would have at least some similar responses :)

1. Would someone three months short of turning 18, be treated as a juvenile offender? I would think it some cases it might be, depending on the offense. In this character's case, I would think not. He's being charged for at least 2 murders, one of which is a cop.

2. What kind of compensation, if any, would a person receive if they were found not guilty of their crimes (we're talking 15 years later, still imprisoned)? If someone is to say, lie about their innocence, due to imposed threats, is there any punishment for withholding information?

3. How difficult would it be to kill someone, say in visitation, in prison [inmate killing visitor]? I realise there would be many prying eyes, but would it still be possible to pull off such a stunt? What kind of weapon could be hidden where?

4. If someone is convicted [wrongly] of kidnapping, was seen with the said child, and the child testifies against him... he goes to prison... how easy would it be to wiggle his way out? I figure it would be more than a child changing his story and a bunch of yet-to-be-proved claims. Could something work in his favour and get him out within 1-2 weeks? If it helps, the child's father is a cop, who suddenly befriends him after conviction, after a long talk with his son.

5. What happens to possessions, before and after? House (with mortgage), pets? Particularly if there is no family belongings can go to.

6. How long are sentences? For kidnapping (no real harm to child)? Murder? Attempted murder? Is age taken into account (the 18 yo)? What's the deal with hospital allowance? Are inmates allowed to visit someone on the outside practically on their death bed (with supervision, of course)? If not, is there any way I can tweak it? Exceptionally good behaviour record, transplant?

Wow :eek: That looks a lot more than I intended! Guess I got carried away... trust me :) I've done research, I swear! This is just a small minority of the millions of questions I once had... many Google searches have helped! Thanks in advance to anyone that can offer me their additional assistance :D It's greatly appreciated!

alleycat
06-23-2010, 01:08 PM
1. Would someone three months short of turning 18, be treated as a juvenile offender? I would think it some cases it might be, depending on the offense. In this character's case, I would think not. He's being charged for at least 2 murders, one of which is a cop.

Here in the US he would definitely be treated as an adult.

Anya S
06-23-2010, 01:18 PM
3. How difficult would it be to kill someone, say in visitation, in prison [inmate killing visitor]? I realise there would be many prying eyes, but would it still be possible to pull off such a stunt? What kind of weapon could be hidden where?


I would say it would be difficult without getting caught.

*ahem* I've heard it's easy to sneak food in (wear tight shirt under to keep food close to body then a hoodie over to hide bulge). Depending on the type of prison, some visiting rooms have vending machines where families and friends can eat with the inmate, so discreetly removing the food and placing it on a paper plate after microwaving a vending machine burger for example would go unnoticed, even with the many cameras pointed in every direction.

It's recommended women wear bras with no underwire to prevent the metal detector from going off. Three tries through the metal detector and you're usually denied entrance into the prison if you don't make it the third time and the wand test. So metal of any size wouldn't even make it, shoes are removed and run through x-ray.

So ... poisoned food perhaps?

Oh wait, just saw 'inmate killing visitor'

It would be as simple as if the inmate knew enough to snap a neck quickly before the guards are on him like white on rice.

kyliesmiley16
06-23-2010, 06:06 PM
Alleycat - Yeah, I thought so, which is just as well, because that's what I want :)

Anya - Haha yes, it's the inmate doing the killing. He's already been caught once, so he really has no cares. I think he'd like this kill to have the 'personal touch' though, ya know? You make it sound as though he just needs to wait for the perfect time when the guards are distracted with someone else, to make his lunge and attack ;) If he's already got his bare hands around someone, and the guard's can't pull him off fast enough, things could turn fatal... hm :rolleyes I'd hate to be that guy!

Anya S
06-24-2010, 04:55 AM
It is basically that simple, kill quickly.

He's already in jail, so if he kills again ... um, depending on the state he's in, things could get a little worse ... solitary confinement or I dunno, death sentence? Not sure if he'd be 'tried' again for that murder with all the witnesses?

If he has no care and wants to get the job done before the guards get to him, it would have to be something quick. Some inmates are allowed pencils and paper during visiting (again I suppose depending on the prison), pencil through an artery in the neck perhaps? I don't know anything about anatomy of human beings and good places to stab for instant death. Plotting murders isn't something I do on a regular basis, obviously. LOL.

kyliesmiley16
06-24-2010, 06:14 AM
Oh well, I'm very glad :tongue I'd be a bit worried if it was! And in any case - Yahoo Answers always helps with things like that!

I was expecting solitary confinement, as we don't have the death sentence here in Oz, and he's already sentenced for life anyway, so I figure there's not much else that can happen. Unsure about the pencil, but it is a good *er, very sick* idea *shivers* :tongue

raelwv
06-24-2010, 06:50 AM
For a couple of these . . .

1. In most jurisdictions, people under 18 can be charged as adults or "transferred to adult status" if charged with a serious crime. A just-shy-of-18 year old charged with two murders would almost certainly get treated as an adult. However, under a recent Supreme Court ruling, s/he could not receive the death penalty, as an adult could.

5. If there are no friends/family members to take care of things, they'd most likely be abandoned. Lawyers cannot safeguard property for their clients, for what it's worth.

6. These all really depend on the jurisdiction. Generally, though, we're talking long long terms of years.

Hope that helps!

JulieHowe
06-24-2010, 06:52 AM
So I'm new, with questions bursting out of my mind about my current WIP in its editing stages. I had intended to post a little more and get to know the place before asking so much, but I can't hold back longer. I've done the hunt and found other useful threads, but alas, I want to know more... Story is set in Australia, but I'm quite sure other countries would have at least some similar responses

1. Would someone three months short of turning 18, be treated as a juvenile offender? I would think it some cases it might be, depending on the offense. In this character's case, I would think not. He's being charged for at least 2 murders, one of which is a cop.

In California, the minimum age for adult prosecution is 14. It used to be 16. A dead police officer would practically guarantee the minor would be charged as an adult.

2. What kind of compensation, if any, would a person receive if they were found not guilty of their crimes (we're talking 15 years later, still imprisoned)? If someone is to say, lie about their innocence, due to imposed threats, is there any punishment for withholding information?

The compensation varies from state to state.


3. How difficult would it be to kill someone, say in visitation, in prison [inmate killing visitor]? I realise there would be many prying eyes, but would it still be possible to pull off such a stunt? What kind of weapon could be hidden where?

Inmates who have contact visits are shaken down before and after by the guards, but these folks have nothing but time on their hands. Rectal cavities are the favored hiding place to stash all kinds of goods. The inmate excuses himself to use the bathroom, comes back, and voila, there's a shank in his hand.

A popular shank is a melted-down toothbrush handle whittled into a sharpened edge. I read a book (Education of a Felon, an autobiography), where a razor was pushed into the melted-down edge of the toothbrush handle and turned into a handy little weapon. Even without the razor, an inmate with the smarts can turn anything into a deadly weapon.

Someone else mentioned a pencil. Yup. A broken-off pencil whittled to a sharp edge and stuffed into the nether regions could be used as an excellent weapon.


4. If someone is convicted [wrongly] of kidnapping, was seen with the said child, and the child testifies against him... he goes to prison... how easy would it be to wiggle his way out? I figure it would be more than a child changing his story and a bunch of yet-to-be-proved claims. Could something work in his favour and get him out within 1-2 weeks? If it helps, the child's father is a cop, who suddenly befriends him after conviction, after a long talk with his son.

Nope. Nothing ever happens this quickly, except in the movies.

5. What happens to possessions, before and after? House (with mortgage), pets? Particularly if there is no family belongings can go to.

That doggy's going to the pound if there's nobody to pick up the dog at the house after the person is arrested. For a rental house, the landlord will end up disposing of the belongings after formally evicting the tenant. A house with a mortgage is probably going to be taken by the bank, but relatives or trusted associates could take over the house payment, if the inmate has anyone in the free world he can trust.


6. How long are sentences? For kidnapping (no real harm to child)? Murder? Attempted murder? Is age taken into account (the 18 yo)? What's the deal with hospital allowance? Are inmates allowed to visit someone on the outside practically on their death bed (with supervision, of course)? If not, is there any way I can tweak it? Exceptionally good behaviour record, transplant?

Some prisoners are allowed to go to funerals of relatives, or to have a short visit with a dying relative, but they usually have to pay all the costs, including the guards' salaries, expenses and transportation. It depends on the laws of the state and the nature of the conviction. Author Jeffrey Archer was allowed to attend a relative's funeral while he was incarcerated in a British prison.


Wow That looks a lot more than I intended! Guess I got carried away... trust me I've done research, I swear! This is just a small minority of the millions of questions I once had... many Google searches have helped! Thanks in advance to anyone that can offer me their additional assistance It's greatly appreciated!

Lhun
06-24-2010, 09:03 AM
1. Would someone three months short of turning 18, be treated as a juvenile offender? I would think it some cases it might be, depending on the offense. In this character's case, I would think not. He's being charged for at least 2 murders, one of which is a cop.Depends totally on jurisdiction. I.e. ask a fellow australian with a clue. ;)
Not all jurisdictions on earth go with the approach "if the crime is really bad the offender must be a competent adult" that Hollywood presents as the american model. Some just go by age. Some (probably most, at least most civilized) will have a psychological evaluation done.

3. How difficult would it be to kill someone, say in visitation, in prison [inmate killing visitor]? I realise there would be many prying eyes, but would it still be possible to pull off such a stunt? What kind of weapon could be hidden where?Sharp objects are your friend. Or not, if you're the victim. While the human body is very resilient, it's also very vulnerable if vital areas are hit. Stabbing an artery is probably the most straightforward choice. Snapping a neck is technically possible, but nowhere near as easy as depicted in movies. Turning a head, even if sharply, by about 45 as shown so often does absolutely nothing (unless you have crazy serial killer magic). Snapping a neck requires fixating the shoulders, and a whole lot of muscle power, since neck muscles are pretty strong. Still possible of course, though it'd take a lot longer than stabbing someone by surprise (and it's not something someone would get right without some training). What's the easier choice probably depends on the guards present, i.e. is there enough time to overpower the victim and is that easier than getting a sharp object.

4. If someone is convicted [wrongly] of kidnapping, was seen with the said child, and the child testifies against him... he goes to prison... how easy would it be to wiggle his way out? I figure it would be more than a child changing his story and a bunch of yet-to-be-proved claims. Could something work in his favour and get him out within 1-2 weeks? If it helps, the child's father is a cop, who suddenly befriends him after conviction, after a long talk with his son.That sounds extremely unlikely everywhere. Bureaucracy is nothing if not slow, and once in prison it will take much longer than a few weeks to get an actual conviction overturned. Generally speaking, the time to wiggle out is before the conviction happens, after that it's likely too late. How much weight the testimony of child would actually carry in trial in the first place depends a lot on jurisdiction as well.

6. How long are sentences? For kidnapping (no real harm to child)? Murder? Attempted murder? Is age taken into account (the 18 yo)?That should be easy enough to find by just googling australian criminal law.

kyliesmiley16
06-24-2010, 06:26 PM
A popular shank is a melted-down toothbrush handle whittled into a sharpened edge. I read a book (Education of a Felon, an autobiography), where a razor was pushed into the melted-down edge of the toothbrush handle and turned into a handy little weapon. Even without the razor, an inmate with the smarts can turn anything into a deadly weapon.

Heard of this before :) That's a good idea, thanks!


That sounds extremely unlikely everywhere. Bureaucracy is nothing if not slow, and once in prison it will take much longer than a few weeks to get an actual conviction overturned. Generally speaking, the time to wiggle out is before the conviction happens, after that it's likely too late. How much weight the testimony of child would actually carry in trial in the first place depends a lot on jurisdiction as well.

Would it er, be an option then that they were in prison awaiting trial? Just done a Google search and it appears worthy... "There were a total of 5,133 unsentenced prisoners in Australian prisons on 30 June 2005..." Mind you, there would be different areas of the prison... ah... I'm too tired for this right now :tongue But maybe that would be my next best option...

Thanks for all the help so far guys :D I shall be taking it all on board!

Maryn
06-24-2010, 11:46 PM
1. Would someone three months short of turning 18, be treated as a juvenile offender? I would think it some cases it might be, depending on the offense. In this character's case, I would think not. He's being charged for at least 2 murders, one of which is a cop.He would most certainly be charged as an adult. IIRC, in the US state law determines at what age that can be done, but this close to genuine adulthood and with such serious charges, there's no question the 17-year-old would receive no special treatment or leniency because of his youth.

2. What kind of compensation, if any, would a person receive if they were found not guilty of their crimes (we're talking 15 years later, still imprisoned)? If someone is to say, lie about their innocence, due to imposed threats, is there any punishment for withholding information?So this person was wrongfully convicted and has been found innocent without a doubt 15 years later? The compensation is all over the place. Usually it's X amount per year spent imprisoned. The range, in US dollars, goes from nothing at all to $25,000 per year to $300,000 per year. (Source (http://219mag.com/2009/07/wrongful-conviction-unfair-compensation/).) Most people apparently receive somewhere between $40,000 and $125,000 per year spent in prison.

3. How difficult would it be to kill someone, say in visitation, in prison [inmate killing visitor]? I realise there would be many prying eyes, but would it still be possible to pull off such a stunt? What kind of weapon could be hidden where?This question is why I decided to answer. I dragged my family to a prison tour in the weeks before a new prison in the area was to receive inmates. While they have some secure visitation--the Plexiglass window and phone seen so often in movies and TV--most visitation was to be conducted in the dining hall, the prisoner at one side of the table, his visitors on the other. Brief touching, hugging, etc. is officially not allowed but is in reality let off with a warning. I would presume that somebody with a home-make knife could probably kill a visitor across the table or during a brief, officially-forbidden hug of greeting.

4. If someone is convicted [wrongly] of kidnapping, was seen with the said child, and the child testifies against him... he goes to prison... how easy would it be to wiggle his way out? I figure it would be more than a child changing his story and a bunch of yet-to-be-proved claims. Could something work in his favour and get him out within 1-2 weeks? If it helps, the child's father is a cop, who suddenly befriends him after conviction, after a long talk with his son.I don't know--but I do know that lawyers on both sides prefer not to rely solely on the testimony of children, especially young ones, because they're so unreliable, easily swayed, and such.

5. What happens to possessions, before and after? House (with mortgage), pets? Particularly if there is no family belongings can go to.Hmm. I'm offering a best-guess that if nobody steps forward and says, "I'll take the dogs," they go to the local shelter for adoption. I'm sure there must be laws in place to deal with the possessions of someone about to begin a long sentence, but I don't know what they are.

6. How long are sentences? For kidnapping (no real harm to child)? Murder? Attempted murder? Is age taken into account (the 18 yo)? What's the deal with hospital allowance? Are inmates allowed to visit someone on the outside practically on their death bed (with supervision, of course)? If not, is there any way I can tweak it? Exceptionally good behaviour record, transplant?Based on lots of TV-watching, sentences for cop-killers are among the harshest, usually at least 25-to-life if not life-without parole--and of course, in the US many states still have the death penalty on the table. Kidnapping is also treated harshly, even if the child suffered no harm. The youth of the accused would be a factor in sentencing, but if they believe him guilty of two murders, one a cop, and a kidnapping, he'll get a harsh sentence nevertheless. Visitation happens but not often. The cost of supervising someone's visit to a dying relative, coupled with the risk of escape and possible injuries to others, makes this quite rare. However, rare is not zero, especially if the guy's a model prisoner and trades information for the privilege.

Maryn, remembering why teachers scream, "Write what you know!"

kyliesmiley16
06-25-2010, 11:14 AM
So this person was wrongfully convicted and has been found innocent without a doubt 15 years later? The compensation is all over the place. Usually it's X amount per year spent imprisoned. The range, in US dollars, goes from nothing at all to $25,000 per year to $300,000 per year. (Source (http://219mag.com/2009/07/wrongful-conviction-unfair-compensation/).) Most people apparently receive somewhere between $40,000 and $125,000 per year spent in prison.

Pretty much ;) Someone comes forward and all truths (well, maybe not all) are revealed. I tried to do further research on this for compensation in Australia, but came across very little. One man receiving $460,000 for 5 years, and two brothers receiving $1m for 6-8 years in addition to paid legal expenses. So in any case, your figures seem to be about right if I make up some kind of figure between there :)


This question is why I decided to answer. I dragged my family to a prison tour in the weeks before a new prison in the area was to receive inmates. While they have some secure visitation--the Plexiglass window and phone seen so often in movies and TV--most visitation was to be conducted in the dining hall, the prisoner at one side of the table, his visitors on the other. Brief touching, hugging, etc. is officially not allowed but is in reality let off with a warning. I would presume that somebody with a home-make knife could probably kill a visitor across the table or during a brief, officially-forbidden hug of greeting.

This is exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for! :) I'd seen similar in Prison Break, but alas = "often in movies and TV" so I couldn't be sure. I can't see the pair hugging, but across the table could probably do it, as long as the guards can look away for about a second when he is pulling out his weapon. After that, he's happy to let them attempt to stop him, and fail... :)


I don't know--but I do know that lawyers on both sides prefer not to rely solely on the testimony of children, especially young ones, because they're so unreliable, easily swayed, and such.

Again, would it be possible then that he was awaiting trial? See post #10.


The cost of supervising someone's visit to a dying relative, coupled with the risk of escape and possible injuries to others, makes this quite rare. However, rare is not zero, especially if the guy's a model prisoner and trades information for the privilege.

I like the sound of that :D Thank you, thank you, thank you!

RobinGBrown
06-28-2010, 10:24 AM
Would someone three months short of turning 18,
<snip>
House (with mortgage

How did your minor get a mortgage? Banks, AFAIK, will not lend money to someone who is under the legal age of consent even if they have a job. Theoretically a guardian could sign for the minor but you've also said there are no family, and I'd be very surprised if a bank would lend anyone money under those circumstances.

kyliesmiley16
06-28-2010, 03:47 PM
How did your minor get a mortgage? Banks, AFAIK, will not lend money to someone who is under the legal age of consent even if they have a job. Theoretically a guardian could sign for the minor but you've also said there are no family, and I'd be very surprised if a bank would lend anyone money under those circumstances.

:) I never said they were the same person.

kyliesmiley16
07-04-2010, 05:37 PM
Would it er, be an option then that they were in prison awaiting trial? Just done a Google search and it appears worthy... "There were a total of 5,133 unsentenced prisoners in Australian prisons on 30 June 2005..." Mind you, there would be different areas of the prison... ah... I'm too tired for this right now :tongue But maybe that would be my next best option...



Nevermind :D I found an article (http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/no-bail--go-directly-to-jail-20100416-skg7.html) about this which has greatly helped :) As have all of the posters above in relation to my other millions of questions :D Thankk youu!! I think that's all.. for now :tongue