PDA

View Full Version : 5 Ridiculous Gun Myths Everyone Believes



hammerklavier
06-15-2010, 11:00 PM
Fairly work safe, if they like guns where you work ;)

http://www.cracked.com/article_18576_5-ridiculous-gun-myths-everyone-believes-thanks-to-movies.html


I would like to add:

6. Being hit by a bullet does not knock you backward, ever hear of a guy named Newton and equal and opposite reaction?
7. A .22 long rifle caliber, although deadly, generally does not produce a "one shot kill" except at very close range (and head shot). In fact, larger calibers rarely do either. The actual time it takes a gunshot victim to die varies from "movie fast" to "Shakespear death scene slow"

WildScribe
06-15-2010, 11:11 PM
That was highly entertaining. I'd like to add:

8: Nothing can harm your gun, even being submersed in water, and you never need to clean it as long as you are the protagonist.

Snowstorm
06-15-2010, 11:16 PM
9. Guns can go off by accident.

hammerklavier
06-15-2010, 11:18 PM
9. Guns can go off by accident.

Like in True Lies where the UZI dropped down the stairs starts firing and kills all the bad guys!

WildScribe
06-15-2010, 11:19 PM
9. Guns can go off by accident.

Some can, but most indeed will not.

Drachen Jager
06-15-2010, 11:35 PM
9. Guns can go off by accident.

Not true, the old Sterling SMG could fire with no round in the chamber if you slammed the butt against something hard enough, it would cock and fire all at once. The only death during the FLQ crisis was due to this problem.

Cyia
06-15-2010, 11:40 PM
10. If you hold the gun sideways (or even upside down) in one hand you can still hit a target and not, you know, break your wrist.

Supposedly the first time they did the "sideways shot" in a movie (and it's cousin the "crosswise" machine guns) it was practicality - the star got upset because the prop gun spit spent rounds in his face, so he tilted the gun. It looked cool on film, so they kept it.

But no way can you shoot a real run like that without some serious pain involved, not to mention your accuracy nosedives.

hammerklavier
06-15-2010, 11:41 PM
Modify that to say, any modern firearm (and most not so modern) in sound mechanical condition :)

Drachen Jager
06-15-2010, 11:42 PM
That was highly entertaining. I'd like to add:

8: Nothing can harm your gun, even being submersed in water, and you never need to clean it as long as you are the protagonist.

The only thing that happens to a modern firearm after it's been immersed in water is that the first few rounds will be of a higher velocity owing to the fluid seal in the barrel.

There are AK47s in Afghanistan that have not been cleaned in 20 years and still operate perfectly. Some firearms fare better without cleaning than others but almost all will do just fine without being cleaned for a few days even while being harshly treated.

Drachen Jager
06-15-2010, 11:46 PM
Modify that to say, any modern firearm (and most not so modern) in sound mechanical condition :)

With that provision yeah, generally. Still a lot of people are shot by accident, it's really carelessness but the firearms are not fired intentionally, it's just some people don't know how to handle them.


Along with the accidental firings though. Older machine guns would sometimes overheat to the point where the bullet would cook off in the chamber so they'd keep firing even after you let go of the trigger and only stop when the ammunition ran out.

Lhun
06-16-2010, 03:39 AM
The only thing that happens to a modern firearm after it's been immersed in water is that the first few rounds will be of a higher velocity owing to the fluid seal in the barrel.Depends on the gun in question, really.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGwkHktkTxU (it is a promo video from HK of course, but probably not too much tweaked)

Drachen Jager
06-16-2010, 04:08 AM
That doesn't surprise me Lhun, note I said AFTER it's been immersed in water, you do have to drain it first, very few will fire properly while under water or full of water, but that wasn't the question.

Glock pistols operate perfectly well under water though, and a few ARs and SMGs as well, although most don't cycle properly.

Thomas_Anderson
06-16-2010, 04:45 AM
11. Getting shot in the arm or leg is a trivial injury. All you need to is wince (even that's optional), and you'll be perfectly fine. Definitely won't bleed to death.

Heck, if you're lucky, you'll still have full function of that arm/leg.

Snowstorm
06-16-2010, 05:47 AM
Not true, the old Sterling SMG could fire with no round in the chamber if you slammed the butt against something hard enough, it would cock and fire all at once. The only death during the FLQ crisis was due to this problem.

Bolding mine. Well, yeah. But a gun doesn't just go off by itself, something causes it go off: whacking it, dropping it, etc.

Drachen Jager
06-16-2010, 06:48 AM
Bolding mine. Well, yeah. But a gun doesn't just go off by itself, something causes it go off: whacking it, dropping it, etc.

Well duh! You said, "by accident" initially. Sitting on a table while nothing at all happens is not an accident, that's nothing happening.

Being dropped, catching on a twig, finger or other protrusion or otherwise mishandled is an ACCIDENT. They go off like that all the time!

DrZoidberg
06-16-2010, 11:55 AM
9. Guns can go off by accident.

Well... you can accidentally drink massive quantities of whiskey. The rest follows.

Paul
06-16-2010, 12:16 PM
I remember Tim Roth's injury in Reservoir Dogs, well depicted. Pity there's not more adherence to realism, it would add to rather than diminish an action movie. Anyone think of other examples where a more realist depiction is used?

Becky Black
06-16-2010, 12:38 PM
11. Getting shot in the arm or leg is a trivial injury. All you need to is wince (even that's optional), and you'll be perfectly fine. Definitely won't bleed to death.

Heck, if you're lucky, you'll still have full function of that arm/leg.

Oh for sure. Not like there's any great big arteries in the leg or anything.

Don't forget the shoulder. Pah, bullet in the shoulder, minor inconvenience.

Snowstorm
06-16-2010, 05:55 PM
Well duh! You said, "by accident" initially. Sitting on a table while nothing at all happens is not an accident, that's nothing happening.

Being dropped, catching on a twig, finger or other protrusion or otherwise mishandled is an ACCIDENT. They go off like that all the time!


This thread is about myths. I listed a myth that guns go off by accident.

They don't. Something causes them to go off. As you wrote, dropping the weapon or catching the trigger is the accident. I dropped my--loaded--.357 magnum once. I expected it to go off. (It didn't.) My point is people do something: drop the weapon, catch the trigger and seem shocked--SHOCKED I tell you!--that the thing went off. (ETA: I think we believe the same thing.)


Dr. Zoidberg:
Well... you can accidentally drink massive quantities of whiskey. The rest follows.

I don't believe anyone "accidentally" drinks massive quantities of whiskey (or for that matter, would want to!). :D

Ariella
06-17-2010, 12:53 AM
12. The best way to apprehend a dangerous suspect is to have several officers surround him with guns drawn, creating a circular firing squad.

I'm not a gun person and even I can tell that it's not a bright idea.

I also read somewhere that holding a handgun vertically next to one's head is a move without any tactical value. It was apparently invented by a Hollywood director who wanted to get an actor's weapon and his pretty face into the same frame.

claws2
06-17-2010, 01:22 AM
13. If people are shooting at you while you're running up a staircase that has metal railings with thin vertical bars, they you're safe because all the rounds will strike those vertical bars.

14. If you're standing in an intersection of a hallway (or even in the open), and then the bad guys shoot a bunch of rounds at you, you'll have time to recognize that they are shooting and still have time to duck out of the way.

15. Empty barrels and bushes will block bullets from hitting you.

16. If the bad guy is across the room from you and has the bead on you, he will give you time to raise your pistol and to target him, and you both will refuse to fire because ..., er, because you both know that the guy firing last will win.

Shadow_Ferret
06-17-2010, 01:28 AM
Wow. I'm impressed. That was actually a well-researched, well thought out, well-written article. Probably a first for Cracked.

Nivarion
06-17-2010, 05:48 AM
Oh Oh I've got one.

An M16 will jam every 10th round. Meanwhile an AK will never ever jam. Even if you dip the casings in mud or put one that is not quite the right size in there.

No an AK-47 is absolutely immune to stove pipes or other jams that happen to every gun. EVERY GUN. and for those who don't believe me EVERY GUN.

sure they only happen once every couple of thousand rounds. but they happen to EVERY GUN.

And the M16 if kept clean jams at the same rate.

Linda Adams
06-17-2010, 02:04 PM
I'm surprised these two didn't get mentioned:

Counting the bullets fired of one gun during a gunfight.

Hitting a distant moving person in a small target area, like the leg.

hammerklavier
06-17-2010, 06:26 PM
They did mention the bullet thing under machine guns in the article.

CaroGirl
06-17-2010, 06:38 PM
I'll just chime in to say real guns scare the shit out of me.

Cyia
06-17-2010, 08:31 PM
I'll just chime in to say real guns scare the shit out of me.

Why? (serious question)

Cyia
06-17-2010, 08:34 PM
Hitting a distant moving person in a small target area, like the leg.

Serpentine! You're supposed to run serpentine! No one can hit you if you run in a squiggly line!

Car tires can't be shot out. The engine, however, will blow with one shot through the grill and never damage the chrome.

And for accuracy, cops are the worst marksmen alive.

Chase
06-17-2010, 09:34 PM
17. Fanning a single-action revolver (repeatedly brushing back the hammer with the palm of the off-hand while holding the trigger back with the gun hand) is the most accurate method to kill (or shoot guns from the hands) of six bad guys.

Stanmiller
06-17-2010, 10:08 PM
18. Aftrer running out of ammo, bad guys always throw their weapons at the good guy, ensuring that the good guy knows the bad guy is now unarmed.

Stanmiller
06-17-2010, 10:18 PM
I'll just chime in to say real guns scare the shit out of me.

I've handled guns since a kid and they scare the crap out of me too, sometimes. Anyone that handles the things had better be afraid (in the sense of treating them with caution). Watch an experienced gun handler. The muzzle never tracks across other people, finger is always outside the trigger guard--stuff like that.

Whoever trained the actors on NCIS did a good job. Their gunhandling is the best I've seen on TV or movies. The only unrealistic scene I can think of is the supposed thousand yard shot in bright sunlight through a window into a darkened room.

So go to a gunstore with an indoor range and get some coaching. You may like the things.
--Stan

--Stan

Nivarion
06-17-2010, 10:34 PM
18. Aftrer running out of ammo, bad guys always throw their weapons at the good guy, ensuring that the good guy knows the bad guy is now unarmed.

And superman will always duck from a thrown gun, but take a bullet to the eye.


I'll just chime in to say real guns scare the shit out of me.

Why?

If you treat a firearm with the respect it deserves and handle them with due caution they'll never betray you. You'll never accidentally discharge a round, never hurt yourself or anyone else. (unless you intend to) In lethality they're a hell of a lot dangerous than a car. They're also easier to use and maintain.

I can clean a slide in a minute. It takes me quite a deal longer to replace a spark plug. A gun has upwards of 4 controls, A car has lots. A clean lubricated gun will almost never do anything unexpected (occasional stove pipe) A well maintained car can still skip off the road, crash, hydroplane, roll etc.

They're one of the best made, most reliable machines you can buy in modern times.

CaroGirl
06-17-2010, 10:37 PM
I've never touched a real gun in my life and I don't intend to. The damage these weapons can inflict, intentionally and unintentionally, is horrifying to me.

Cathy C
06-17-2010, 10:48 PM
:( Pity. It's actually quite a lot of fun to shoot, CaroGirl. An awful lot of things can cause horrible damage (including a baseball bat.) Ranged weapons get a bad rap--sadly by people who misuse them and wind up in the news.

But on a less serious subject, my Gun Myth:

You can shoot two or three clips in a row with any semi- or automatic weapon and immediately grab the gun by the barrel to race to your next location. :ROFL:

(Well...you can, but only once and won't be using that hand for a bit.)

Midnight Star
06-17-2010, 10:54 PM
I think this thread deserves a sticky.

Cyia
06-17-2010, 11:00 PM
You can shoot two or three clips in a row with any semi- or automatic weapon and immediately grab the gun by the barrel to race to your next location. :ROFL:

(Well...you can, but only once and won't be using that hand for a bit.)


That's the James Bond rule of cool burning jet packs.

Something super hot cools to an inert state seconds after use, thus enabling the hero to handle it without gloves, tongs, or any sort of flame retardant.

Stanmiller
06-17-2010, 11:52 PM
This is fun.

21. The hero always uses a semi-auto pistol or revolver while the bad guys now use all manner of full-auto (the favorite being the H&K MP5 9mm squirter) weaponry. The bad guys never hit and the good guy never misses.

Nivarion
06-18-2010, 12:05 AM
I've never touched a real gun in my life and I don't intend to. The damage these weapons can inflict, intentionally and unintentionally, is horrifying to me.

In my opinion there is never an unintentional injury. Only negligent ones.

Vehicular accidents inflict far worse damage to a person than any personal arm ever could. I had the displeasure of seeing a gentleman dismembered by a car accident. I also was unfortunate enough to see a family so mangled by one that I couldn't tell how many people were involved. (I live next to a busy intersection)

Whereas, in a firearm killing you can easily identify the target (never seen anyone shot) and what was hit and where. Even which direction it came from.

roughly 100 children a year are accidentally shot with a firearm in the US. Whereas about 1,400 die in vehicular accidents in the US. And a lot of accidental shootings are non lethal as well.

Cars actually scare me a LOT more than a gun.

If you're interested, I've got a much more in depth article on the dangers of accidental firearm deaths here. (http://www.opposingviews.com/comments/500-is-awful) I wrote it very late at night, and have a lot of aborted sentences in there but the math and logic parts of it still hold up.

I'll get off my soap box saying, Firearms are out there, and they are dangerous if mishandled. Even if you don't like them or the injuries they can inflict, they are still something that every person should learn the basics of, even if just for their own safety.

:Soapbox:

CaroGirl
06-18-2010, 12:11 AM
I'll get off my soap box saying, Firearms are out there, and they are dangerous if mishandled. Even if you don't like them or the injuries they can inflict, they are still something that every person should learn the basics of, even if just for their own safety.

:Soapbox:
I couldn't disagree more. I know I'm in a gun thread and more than a little out-numbered, but I don't think learning the basics of using a gun would ever be for my own safety. Guns aren't "out there" in my country and I'm perfectly happy with that.

No one will convince me otherwise, by the way. :)

I also think comparing gun deaths to car deaths is like comparing apples to oranges. Sure, they're both fruit, but...

Synovia
06-18-2010, 12:13 AM
roughly 100 children a year are accidentally shot with a firearm in the US. Whereas about 1,400 die in vehicular accidents in the US. And a lot of accidental shootings are non lethal as well.

In order for those numbers to be meaningful, you have to state A) how many children are exposed to guns in a year, and B) how many children are exposed to cars.


I would argue that B is orders of magnitude larger than A.

Shadow_Ferret
06-18-2010, 12:14 AM
I'll just chime in to say real guns scare the shit out of me.


I've never touched a real gun in my life and I don't intend to. The damage these weapons can inflict, intentionally and unintentionally, is horrifying to me.

You know what? I'm more scared of going fishing and getting a fish hook stuck in my flesh then I am of a getting shot. That's because the former is vastly more likely to happen.

Synovia
06-18-2010, 12:14 AM
My favorite gun myth is where people on tv/in movies seem to die instantly from gut wounds.

Shadow_Ferret
06-18-2010, 12:17 AM
My favorite gun myth is where people on tv/in movies seem to die instantly from gut wounds.

Hmm. Most of the westerns I've seen, a gut wound was always a long, lingering death.

CaroGirl
06-18-2010, 12:22 AM
You know what? I'm more scared of going fishing and getting a fish hook stuck in my flesh then I am of a getting shot. That's because the former is vastly more likely to happen.
Good for you. Sounds like a healthy fear.

Am I not allowed to be afraid of guns? Or am I only not allowed to be afraid of guns in this particular thread?

What are you afraid of so I can make of you for it, or try to convince you otherwise?

Shadow_Ferret
06-18-2010, 12:30 AM
Good for you. Sounds like a healthy fear.

Am I not allowed to be afraid of guns? Or am I only not allowed to be afraid of guns in this particular thread?

What are you afraid of so I can make of you for it, or try to convince you otherwise?

I just told you.

And I wasn't making fun. I honestly fear fish hooks more than guns.

The thing is, you just admitted there aren't any "out there" in Canada. I, on the other hand, have children who enjoy fishing and thus have a very real chance of being hooked.

Synovia
06-18-2010, 12:31 AM
Hmm. Most of the westerns I've seen, a gut wound was always a long, lingering death.
Westerns, yes. Modern set TV, they just die.

CaroGirl
06-18-2010, 12:34 AM
I just told you.

And I wasn't making fun. I honestly fear fish hooks more than guns.

The thing is, you just admitted there aren't any "out there" in Canada. I, on the other hand, have children who enjoy fishing and thus have a very real chance of being hooked.
And I agreed that it's a healthy fear. My dad's an ophthalmologist and had to remove any number of eyes that were permanently damaged by fish hooks. I believe it was the number one cause of accidental blindness and eye loss. Rest assured, though, none of the fish hook patients actually died. :)

Sure, I rarely see a gun. But when I do, even a cop with one in a holster, I feel a bit weak. It's a genuine fear. I don't even know where it comes from. I guess it's a phobia.

My kids like fishing off the dock at the cottage too!

Lhun
06-18-2010, 12:35 AM
That's the James Bond rule of cool burning jet packs.

Something super hot cools to an inert state seconds after use, thus enabling the hero to handle it without gloves, tongs, or any sort of flame retardant.Heh, this reminds me of the first chemistry lecture in university.
Rule number one in the lab: hot glass looks like cold glass.
And about a year later, someone in the lab tried to take a ceramic crucible out of the oven with his hand. Apparently it looked cold to him, which of course also means the thing was colder than about, oh, 10k Kelvin. Luckily, the closest hospital was just a few streets over and they're used to things like that.

WriteKnight
06-18-2010, 02:45 AM
"ALL guns are loaded, ALL dogs bite, ALL horses kick, and ALL knives are sharp." By keeping that in mind, I'm rarely surprised by any of them.

PS: I'll add this as a friendly reminder to anyone who is ever near a camera or a microphone - IT'S ON, AND IT'S RECORDING. Politicians should remember that, especially if someone tells you otherwise.

cbenoi1
06-18-2010, 04:47 AM
22. An automatic rifle dropped in sand or mud never jams, no matter what. And they never need any cleaning whatsoever.

-cb

Nivarion
06-18-2010, 05:42 AM
In order for those numbers to be meaningful, you have to state A) how many children are exposed to guns in a year, and B) how many children are exposed to cars.


I would argue that B is orders of magnitude larger than A.

Cracks knuckles.

This page on RAND (http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB4535/index1.html) estimates that there are 22 million children in homes with firearms. Roughly 1/3 of the total population of 74 million.

It can reasonably be said that all US children are exposed to a vehicle.

So that still gives us a per 100k a .46 in 100,000 children exposed to firearms being injured, with 1.9 in 100,000 children exposed to a vehicle being killed. Thats not even injured. Killed.



Good for you. Sounds like a healthy fear.

Am I not allowed to be afraid of guns? Or am I only not allowed to be afraid of guns in this particular thread?

What are you afraid of so I can make of you for it, or try to convince you otherwise?

First, I'm not making fun of you. I'm just saying that they're a lot less dangerous than they seem.

You are totally allowed to be afraid of guns. But I wasn't sure where you were coming from when we started this thread.


I just told you.

And I wasn't making fun. I honestly fear fish hooks more than guns.

The thing is, you just admitted there aren't any "out there" in Canada. I, on the other hand, have children who enjoy fishing and thus have a very real chance of being hooked.

Actually, Canada has a pretty high gun owner per capita rate. At 35 firearms per 100 people. So they're pretty common round there too. The country with the "Technically" lowest firearms per capita is Nigeria with 1 per 100. And I really have trouble believing that.


<Snips>

Sure, I rarely see a gun. But when I do, even a cop with one in a holster, I feel a bit weak. It's a genuine fear. I don't even know where it comes from. I guess it's a phobia.

My kids like fishing off the dock at the cottage too!

It sounds like Hopolophobia. A legitimate fear of weapons that like all other phobias are hardwired into the brain of the person with them.

If swords and spears scare you too, then you've got a full blown case of it.



I've got Cryophobia, which is the fear of cold water. Not like a glass of it, entering cold water.

*Shudders* I once had to cross a melt water river up to my chest. Worst minute of my life. I was hyperventilating once I got to the other side.

Literally, when ever I hear someone talking about the fires of hell, I have to laugh. I'm a pyromaniac, fire is fun. I always imagine hell as cold, desolate. The only feature would be snow to my waste and a blasting wind.

hammerklavier
06-18-2010, 06:40 AM
Movie Myth #23. Guns aren't loud, you can fire them indoors all day and not have the slightest hearing problem.

alcarty
06-19-2010, 04:49 AM
We were on maneouvers in Yakima, Washington and I had been firing my BAR intermittently for about two hours. The piece was quite hot. A cadre approached me and told me to put my weapon down. I set it down and when it made contact with the ground it fired off the last two rounds in the magazine. The rounds missed his ankle by inches. That was in 1957. I still remember the look on his face and his ensuing remarks. He was incoherent and was relieved from duty for the remainder of the maneouvers. Don't know if this helps. I did not re-enlist. I don't know about the cadre.

Smish
06-19-2010, 05:27 AM
Cracks knuckles.

This page on RAND (http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB4535/index1.html) estimates that there are 22 million children in homes with firearms. Roughly 1/3 of the total population of 74 million.

It can reasonably be said that all US children are exposed to a vehicle.

So that still gives us a per 100k a .46 in 100,000 children exposed to firearms being injured, with 1.9 in 100,000 children exposed to a vehicle being killed. Thats not even injured. Killed.



It's still not a meaninful statistic, in my view.

Being in a home with firearms does not mean a child is exposed to those firearms.

Many Americans keep guns in the home for protection, but never use them, and the children often aren't aware they're even there.

In homes where children are aware guns are there, they often don't have access to them (because they're locked in a safe, etc).

While some children actually handle and shoot guns (particularly in areas where children go hunting), it's certainly not 22 million (and I'd guess it's a very small percentage of them, though I have no evidence to back that up).

However, every single child in the US encounters a motor vehicle, whether it's a car or school bus they use for transportation, or cars on the street they live on/cross/play in.

Stanmiller
06-19-2010, 04:26 PM
Movie myth #24. The shooter's night vision is never affected by the huge muzzle blast the special effects peeps put in.

# 25. Submachine guns in full-auto have no recoil. Especially Thompsons.

# 26. You don't see this one much anymore, put shoving your gun toward your opponent just as you pull the trigger makes the bullet go faster--or something.

Tsu Dho Nimh
06-19-2010, 09:50 PM
My favorite gun myth is where people on tv/in movies seem to die instantly from gut wounds.

Considering the number of arteries, veins and organs in your gut area that a bullet can hit that would cause massive bleeding, rapid hypovolemic shock, or pressure wave shock ... it's not really a myth.


My favorite myth is that large caliber bullets don't cause large caliber exit holes, so the hero can take a 38 to the shoulder, bind up the wound and still have an arm attached and working.

Becky Black
06-19-2010, 09:59 PM
Anyone who didn't know what guns were and watched a few movies and TV shows would come to the conclusion that guns are like pens. Some of them you can refill and some of them you toss away when they are empty.

I've never understood why some characters throw the gun at the bad guys when it's empty! WTF? More ammo might become available in the future you know! Or you might meet someone who doesn't know it's empty and you can bluff them. Or at the very least you can club someone with it!

Hmm, now I feel like writing a scene where someone runs out off bullets while firing at the bad guys, so throws the gun at them and runs to hide - in what turns out to be a warehouse full of ammunition of the caliber for the gun they just tossed away.

Nivarion
06-19-2010, 10:06 PM
Anyone who didn't know what guns were and watched a few movies and TV shows would come to the conclusion that guns are like pens. Some of them you can refill and some of them you toss away when they are empty.

I've never understood why some characters throw the gun at the bad guys when it's empty! WTF? More ammo might become available in the future you know! Or you might meet someone who doesn't know it's empty and you can bluff them. Or at the very least you can club someone with it!

Hmm, now I feel like writing a scene where someone runs out off bullets while firing at the bad guys, so throws the gun at them and runs to hide - in what turns out to be a warehouse full of ammunition of the caliber for the gun they just tossed away.


:D that would make me laugh. :D

The only time I've ever seen this in a movie and it WASN'T 100% stupid, was in "From Paris with Love" when agent Wax has run out of ammo, and is next to a guy he killed earlier. He throws his gun down and picks up the bad guys.

Why he didn't just Holster it, I can't say. So it was only about 50% stupid.

AZ_Dawn
06-19-2010, 10:28 PM
Not a gun expert, but I've learned a few things for people who've worked with them.

#27. Blanks are non-lethal. Look at Brandon Lee. He was shot with a blank and he's still alive. Oh, wait...

Richard White
06-20-2010, 12:23 AM
I loved the one scene in Justice League Unlimited, where the crook is firing his pistol at Wonder Woman. She's doing her usual bracelets and bullets thing until the crook runs out of ammo.

He realizes he's out and starts to throw the gun at her. She just stops, cocks her head to one side and says, "And what exactly do you think that's going to do?"

He halts mid-throw, looks at it, looks at her, drops the gun sheepishly and puts his hands into the air to surrender.

Cyia
06-20-2010, 02:37 AM
Not a gun expert, but I've learned a few things for people who've worked with them.

#27. Blanks are non-lethal. Look at Brandon Lee. He was shot with a blank and he's still alive. Oh, wait...

This happened to my Mom when she was younger. My dad was firing a starter pistol, but it wouldn't go off. He shook it or something (because apparently starter pistols are like Polaroid film - shaking makes them work right...) and mid-shake he put too much pressure on the trigger.

The gun hadn't been used, cleaned, or emptied in YEARS and the last pack of black powder was still in it. The thing solidified (something about humidity, I'm not a gun person So I don't know much about how it happened) and shot out like a small round. Thankfully, this was Texas and a time when Western wear was popular. Mom was wearing a ginormous belt buckle that the chunk hit. She ended up with a bruise, but no major damage.

Linda Adams
06-20-2010, 03:24 AM
Not a gun expert, but I've learned a few things for people who've worked with them.

#27. Blanks are non-lethal. Look at Brandon Lee. He was shot with a blank and he's still alive. Oh, wait...

Also Jon-Erik Hexum, an actor from a TV series. He was goofing around and put the gun filled with blanks to his head and pulled the trigger. He died a few days later.

Becky Black
06-20-2010, 10:17 AM
Not a gun expert, but I've learned a few things for people who've worked with them.

#27. Blanks are non-lethal. Look at Brandon Lee. He was shot with a blank and he's still alive. Oh, wait...

I think it was slightly more complicated that than in Lee's case, in that unknown to anyone there was still a dummy cartridge lodged in the barrel of the gun from earlier filming and the blank caused that to be fired.

But it certainly illustrates that whatever you think it's loaded with you should only point a real gun at someone if you actually intend to shoot them.

AZ_Dawn
06-20-2010, 09:26 PM
I think it was slightly more complicated that than in Lee's case, in that unknown to anyone there was still a dummy cartridge lodged in the barrel of the gun from earlier filming and the blank caused that to be fired.

But it certainly illustrates that whatever you think it's loaded with you should only point a real gun at someone if you actually intend to shoot them.
I heard it was a backstage incident involving a rookie stuntman who forgot you're supposed to aim away from the actor, but the results were the same.



Also Jon-Erik Hexum, an actor from a TV series. He was goofing around and put the gun filled with blanks to his head and pulled the trigger. He died a few days later.

I remember hearing about that, but I couldn't remember his name.



The gun hadn't been used, cleaned, or emptied in YEARS and the last pack of black powder was still in it. The thing solidified (something about humidity, I'm not a gun person So I don't know much about how it happened) and shot out like a small round. Thankfully, this was Texas and a time when Western wear was popular. Mom was wearing a ginormous belt buckle that the chunk hit. She ended up with a bruise, but no major damage.

:eek: I guess myth #28 might not be that thing where people are saved from bullets by Bibles, coins, plugs of tobacco, or whatever else was in their pockets.

Becky Black
06-20-2010, 11:08 PM
I heard it was a backstage incident involving a rookie stuntman who forgot you're supposed to aim away from the actor, but the results were the same.

Well, I suppose like most accidents it's a coming together of various circumstances any single one of which wouldn't have ended in disaster, but all together they do.

hammerklavier
06-20-2010, 11:22 PM
In Brandon Lee's case, they had used "homemade snapcaps": catridges that had the bullets pulled, powder dumped out and bullets reinserted. Someone backstage pulled the trigger on one of those and the primer ignited (along with any residual powder) driving the bullet slightly down the barrel. Later, they loaded the gun with blanks, which was fired at Lee, and the blank round was powerful enough to fire the lodged bullet at Lee, killing him.

Stanmiller
06-21-2010, 04:32 PM
In Brandon Lee's case, they had used "homemade snapcaps": catridges that had the bullets pulled, powder dumped out and bullets reinserted. Someone backstage pulled the trigger on one of those and the primer ignited (along with any residual powder) driving the bullet slightly down the barrel. Later, they loaded the gun with blanks, which was fired at Lee, and the blank round was powerful enough to fire the lodged bullet at Lee, killing him.

That'll do it. I know a fella does that with .22s. Pulls the bullet, dumps the powder then reseats the bullet. The primer alone gives velocity out of a .22 pistol, enough to pop squirrels in his backyard without having to worry about neighbors.

AZ_Dawn
06-21-2010, 09:44 PM
In Brandon Lee's case, they had used "homemade snapcaps": catridges that had the bullets pulled, powder dumped out and bullets reinserted. Someone backstage pulled the trigger on one of those and the primer ignited (along with any residual powder) driving the bullet slightly down the barrel. Later, they loaded the gun with blanks, which was fired at Lee, and the blank round was powerful enough to fire the lodged bullet at Lee, killing him.
Interesting! So he was killed by a blank, just not directly.

50 Foot Ant
06-22-2010, 07:38 AM
My favorite myth is that hiding behind a plywood wall, some snow, or a sheet of paper provides cover, even from light machine guns. It doesn't work that way.

I looked for it but I can't find it: DARPA put up a video about 45 minutes long of various US Army firearms VS various covers. From 1/4" plywood to full blown cinderblock walls. It's a real eye opener (Even if you've been in combat. Watch that video and you'll wonder how the HELL that little bit of cover you were hiding behind saved you from anything!) in regards to weapon penetration.

The real sobering one is everyone's favorite contestant: The Ma-Duece, the Nifty Fifty, Mr. Fifty, the M2A2 General Purpose Heavy Machinegun.

Cars? Penetrated like a prom queen.
Brick Walls? Brick dust and mannequin parts everywhere.
Cinderblocks? Directed autofire chewed right through it.
Steel Plate? (I think it was 1" steel plate) Torn through like Twinkies in a kindergarten.



Oh, and to expand on the bit about the body armor: One thing they rarely show in movies or books is what happens when that bullet hits you. I'll use a real life example.

An idiot in my unit was messing around with his rifle at the range. He popped the magazine out, then "jokingly" pulled the trigger. I was a good distance away, but had the bad luck to be a dot along the shortest distance between the end of the barrel of the rifle and the distance. In other words, I got hit in my kevlar vest. To be honest, prior to Desert Storm, the military warned us that all that vest might do is stop light shrapnel, even though it saved a lot of people later and was found to be bullet resistant in actual practice. But I digress.

I felt like I'd been kicked by a horse. (I've had that happen to) I folded over, grabbing my side. I saw spots for a moment and literally couldn't breathe.

I went to the dispensary, where I found out that I had two popped ribs, a bruise the size of my hand that was a lovely red and purple color, and was told I was lucky my lung didn't collapse from where I was hit and how close I was.

Now, the modern ballistic plates take care of that by dispersing the kinetic force when hit because they shatter (IIRC, I don't know if the newer plates still use that method). But the plates only cover some areas, and if you take a hit to the regular kevlar, well, it REALLY FREAKING HURTS!

So when Joe Good Guy wearing the sleek and sexy lightweight Hollywood vest takes a burst of rounds into the chest, each of the bullets probably broke at least one rib, the kinetic force still penetrates the body and may collapse the lung, rupture the spleen, even rupture a major vessel or artery, he's probably trying to remember how to breathe, maybe even trying to remember how his heart works right, and has heavy duty bruising where the bullets hit.

And a helmet hit? Your neck hurts for a couple of days. :)

Synovia
06-23-2010, 05:38 PM
Cracks knuckles.

This page on RAND (http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB4535/index1.html) estimates that there are 22 million children in homes with firearms. Roughly 1/3 of the total population of 74 million.

It can reasonably be said that all US children are exposed to a vehicle.

So that still gives us a per 100k a .46 in 100,000 children exposed to firearms being injured, with 1.9 in 100,000 children exposed to a vehicle being killed. Thats not even injured. Killed.

Again, you're ignoring context.

Of those 74 million children in homes with guns, most will spend in excess of an hour a day in a car. Of those 22 million children in homes with guns (which I really doubt, I don't think 1/3 of homes have guns), most will touch a firearm or be near a firearm only a couple times a year. The exposure rate for cars is orders of magnitude higher.

lenore_x
06-24-2010, 12:39 AM
6. Being hit by a bullet does not knock you backward, ever hear of a guy named Newton and equal and opposite reaction?

Actually, as I understand it, it does knock you backward, because of the shock. Except that's really more like "knock down" than "knock backward," which is maybe the distinction you were going for, but...

And I should point out that my source for this is TV Tropes. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnnoyingArrows) :tongue

Also, people who are giving CaroGirl a hard time for being afraid of guns... come ON. It's a DEADLY WEAPON. Who cares how likely it is to kill you? It's reasonable to have a fear of it. Is everyone else's biggest fear heart disease because it kills the most people? I think the most common fear people report is public speaking, and we all know what a high death rate that one has.

Calliopenjo
06-24-2010, 02:23 AM
I've got a question for this section.

I don't know much about horses but I know when a loud noise: firecracker, cork popping, etc. goes off and my dog is near she runs away from the source and towards me to hold her.

Wouldn't a horse get spooked with the loud noise a gun makes?
To me, the calm horse in a middle of gun fight looks unreal. :Shrug:

Collectonian
06-24-2010, 07:40 AM
Not really. Think about hunting dogs, they are not afraid of gun fire, either through not having a natural inclination for a fear of loud noises (none of my current dogs are), or from being acclimated to it. War horses, for example, were highly trained to stay calm and unreactive during battles for just that reason...last thing you need is battle starts and the whole cavalry bolts :-D Police horses, as well, are selected and trained to be non-reactive to loud noises as well.

50 Foot Ant
06-24-2010, 08:40 AM
Also, people who are giving CaroGirl a hard time for being afraid of guns... come ON. It's a DEADLY WEAPON.
Bingo, right there.

I'd rather her be afraid of it, take it really seriously, and NEVER mess around with one, then be so unafraid and blase about it that she gets injured.

pilot27407
06-24-2010, 08:58 AM
I’m a sucker for “smart guns,” the kind which in the protagonist’s hand fires without need of reloading. So much easier moving around without all that extra ammo.

lenore_x
06-24-2010, 09:11 AM
Not really. Think about hunting dogs, they are not afraid of gun fire, either through not having a natural inclination for a fear of loud noises (none of my current dogs are), or from being acclimated to it. War horses, for example, were highly trained to stay calm and unreactive during battles for just that reason...last thing you need is battle starts and the whole cavalry bolts :-D Police horses, as well, are selected and trained to be non-reactive to loud noises as well.

Yeah, when they're trained for it, but that's an important distinction. A horse who wasn't specially trained to be in battle (gunfight OR pre-gunpowder warfare) would freak the hell out. A lot of times, scenes where horses are calm in the midst of a fight are unrealistic for that reason.

Also, horses and dogs have VERY different behavior, so it's not wise to assume from one example to the other...

hammerklavier
06-24-2010, 07:23 PM
Cows, on the other hand, are attracted to the sound of gunfire. Naturally curious, I suppose.

MichaelZWilliamson
09-13-2018, 08:28 PM
The only thing that happens to a modern firearm after it's been immersed in water is that the first few rounds will be of a higher velocity owing to the fluid seal in the barrel.

There are AK47s in Afghanistan that have not been cleaned in 20 years and still operate perfectly. Some firearms fare better without cleaning than others but almost all will do just fine without being cleaned for a few days even while being harshly treated.


I realize this is a really old thread, but, the AK's durability is legendary--half history, half myth. If you do not clean it in 20 years, it will not work. End of story.

Especially since most Eastern Bloc ammo is corrosive. Once you get rust in the gas block, the piston will jam solid, and nothing will move. I've had AKs issued to me by the US Army jam solid. I've seen any number of others do so. The AK's sloppy tolerances were intended to let it operate in COLD weather without excessive drag from gelled oil and large contact areas. Not for it to never be cleaned.

Also, water in a barrel can cause a vapor pressure ring ahead of the bullet. It MIGHT come out as a cloud of vapor. It might bulge the barrel. It might cause an overpressure condition that bursts things.

It will certainly not cause a "fluid seal" that increases velocity.

Al X.
09-14-2018, 02:37 AM
I realize this is a really old thread, but, the AK's durability is legendary--half history, half myth. If you do not clean it in 20 years, it will not work. End of story.

Especially since most Eastern Bloc ammo is corrosive. Once you get rust in the gas block, the piston will jam solid, and nothing will move. I've had AKs issued to me by the US Army jam solid. I've seen any number of others do so. The AK's sloppy tolerances were intended to let it operate in COLD weather without excessive drag from gelled oil and large contact areas. Not for it to never be cleaned.

Also, water in a barrel can cause a vapor pressure ring ahead of the bullet. It MIGHT come out as a cloud of vapor. It might bulge the barrel. It might cause an overpressure condition that bursts things.

It will certainly not cause a "fluid seal" that increases velocity.

I've seen the same thing too. although the culprit was usually carbon buildup in the cylinder and on the piston due to excessive application of oil. But, the same thing applies to other gas piston operated weapons - M60's, M240's. The cylinder and piston should ideally be assembled bone dry.

I know guys from the Gulf War that would pick up abandoned AK's, fire them until they quit firing, chuck them, and repeat, saving their AR's for when they really need them. AK's are quite a bit less accurate, and are hard to control full auto.

blacbird
09-14-2018, 03:13 AM
AK's are quite a bit less accurate, and are hard to control full auto.

Them Viet Cong and North Vietnamese sure managed to use 'em pretty well back in the '60s and '70s.

caw

Al X.
09-14-2018, 03:37 AM
Them Viet Cong and North Vietnamese sure managed to use 'em pretty well back in the '60s and '70s.

caw

Oh no doubt. It's a fine weapon, and it was ideally suited to that theater. But I've played with my share of them. They have their positives and their negatives. The ability to accurately engage targets over 300 meters with an assault rifle is, however, a big deal to me.

Cath
09-22-2018, 08:53 PM
Yikes - this is an 8-year-dead zombie. It's going back underground now, folks.