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Giant Baby
06-15-2010, 03:12 AM
I've googled until my eyes crossed. I thought this would be an easy find, but wonder if my memory is short circuited?

I recall a latin phrase that translates (closely or roughly- mostly closely) to, "The peace that passes all understanding." Are there any Latin literates out there who know what the hell I'm talking about? I've never learned Latin, but I believe there should be a "pax," an "omni," and some form of "cogni-" in there?

Usually I have no problem finding common translations online, but either I've made the latin form of this phrase up in my strange brain, and then turned it into a memory, or I am using some seriously wrong google word pairings. Am befuddled. Big thanks to anyone who has any thoughts.

GB

shadowwalker
06-15-2010, 04:14 AM
I couldn't find a specific phrase (as in a 'saying') but two online translators came up with "pacis ut obduco totus intelligendo"

Bear in mind that, like any translation, there are several ways it could come out - 'peace' and 'understanding' both have different Latin words that could be used, depending on context.

Canotila
06-15-2010, 08:53 AM
In Philipians 4:7 there is a scripture that says:


And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Which in Latin is:


et pax Dei quae exsuperat omnem sensum custodiat corda vestra et intellegentias vestras in Christo Iesu

Is it possible you heard that and remembered it differently? That point of doctrine is often referred to "the peace that surpasses all understanding".

Rufus Coppertop
06-15-2010, 11:35 AM
"pacis ut obduco totus intelligendo"

Of peace that I swallow/wrinkle/cover all to understanding.

Do not trust an online translator.

Pacis = of peace. As a genitive it cannot be the subject.
Obduco = I draw over, I cover, I swallow, I pass or spend time. It needs an accusative object.
Totus is nominative and cannot form part of the object.
Intellegendo is either a dative or ablative gerund or a dative or ablative gerundive and as such cannot be an object or part of an objective clause in this instance.

Rufus Coppertop
06-15-2010, 11:39 AM
Go with what Canitola found.

et pax Dei quae exsuperat omnem sensum custodiat corda vestra et intellegentias vestras in Christo Iesu.

"Dei" means "of God" so you could have, "Pax quae exsuperat omnem sensum", if you don't want to mention God in it.

mgoblue101415
06-15-2010, 01:53 PM
The origin may come from Philippians but from that just about every Christian church out there talks about "the peace that passes all understanding". I've heard that phrase many times in both Catholic and Lutheran services. Unfortunately it's been about 20 years since I heard it in Latin.


But to the OP, just so you don't doubt yourself, you did remember the phrase correctly. It is a very common phrase in religions. I'm just sorry I can't help you with the Latin translation. Well, at this hour anyway. I'll check with the lawyers and docs I know, and see if they know.

Rufus Coppertop
06-15-2010, 02:26 PM
Pax quae exsuperat omnem sensum.

pax = peace, or the peacequae = which
exsuperat = surpasses
omnem sensum = all understanding.

shadowwalker
06-15-2010, 03:18 PM
Of peace that I swallow/wrinkle/cover all to understanding.

Do not trust an online translator.

Well, that's why I noted that all translations are open to interpretation, basically.

My mother (who knew Latin inside and out) was fond of saying that "Peace on Earth, Good will toward men" could just as easily be translated to "Peace on earth toward men of good will" (which is actually the way I prefer it) :D

Rufus Coppertop
06-15-2010, 03:52 PM
Well, that's why I noted that all translations are open to interpretation, basically.

My mother (who knew Latin inside and out) was fond of saying that "Peace on Earth, Good will toward men" could just as easily be translated to "Peace on earth toward men of good will" (which is actually the way I prefer it) :D

She was right.

It's one of those fabulous quirks that bonae can be plural nominative or singular genitive or dative. Meanwhile, voluntatis is usually singular genitive but the 'is' ending can sometimes be found in nominative and accusative plural in the third declension.

So it can be "of good will" or it can be "good wishes". Like you, I prefer the "of good will" interpretation.

Have you read Marlowe's Faust? There's a great piece of Latin in it which you can read it as "you should refuse to kill the king, it is good to fear" or, "you should refuse to fear, it is good to kill the king."

shadowwalker
06-15-2010, 04:41 PM
Have you read Marlowe's Faust? There's a great piece of Latin in it which you can read it as "you should refuse to kill the king, it is good to fear" or, "you should refuse to fear, it is good to kill the king."

I suppose which one chooses would depend on political party? LOL

Giant Baby
06-15-2010, 05:55 PM
Damn, you guys are good. Well, the discussion about translation tells me that my memory is, indeed, faulty regarding a commonly known phrase, but what you've given me is really helpful!

:e2headban

GeorgeK
06-15-2010, 10:22 PM
tranquillitas ultra ratiocinationem ?

Like I always say with Latin, we need context. I've always thought of "pax" more used for war and other more transitive purposes, whereas I assumed "peace" meant peace of spirit, intellect or emotion. As such mine might (memory gets rusty after a long hiatus, so it might be off but) be translated (but not transliterated), "tranquility beyond reasoning"