I'm just curious as to how any AWer's feel about it. I'm curious as to how many people feel bigotry is a paramount issue facing their respective countries, as well as curious as to how many people feel that it's an exaggerated or false accusation with respect to legiitimate foreign policy/domestic political criticism. However you'd like to contribute, and if you care to contribute, much appreciation for your thoughts. . . . .
The Accusation of Bigotry. . . .
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Interesting thread. It might be helpful to think about what the word bigotry means in the first place. It comes with a lot of connotations in my mind - intolerance, prejudice, etc.
But pinning it down and being precise about what it is and what it's not seems like it might be useful.
That said, I wish I could contribute something more right now, but I'm on my way out. I'll be back later tonight, and would love to participate in this thread, because I think it's a worthy subject.
Regards,
Michael Wolfe
But pinning it down and being precise about what it is and what it's not seems like it might be useful.
That said, I wish I could contribute something more right now, but I'm on my way out. I'll be back later tonight, and would love to participate in this thread, because I think it's a worthy subject.
Regards,
Michael Wolfe
Bigotry, as defined by dictionary.com, means: "stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own."
Is this a paramount issue facing America (because I won't try to speak for any other country)? Yes and no, IMO. It's important to remember that until very recently bigotry on a terrifying scale was considered perfectly normal and acceptable by virtually everyone. The right to disagree is a pretty novel thing historically speaking.
I would tie bigotry directly to a society's tech level. As technology increases, resulting in a more educated populace and greater amounts of trade between diverse people and places, people become more open-minded and bigotry decreases. This can be seen throughout history, really, with the worst bigotry being during the dark ages and massive social strides in tolerance moving in tandem with the industrial revolution.
Based on this, I would consider energy and other fundamental resources to be the most important issue facing America today. Because if something starts to interfere with our technology, you can bet we'll start moving towards greater bigotry as well. But if we can keep our tech level increasing, bigotry in all its nasty forms will continue to decrease.
My theory, for what it's worth.
Is this a paramount issue facing America (because I won't try to speak for any other country)? Yes and no, IMO. It's important to remember that until very recently bigotry on a terrifying scale was considered perfectly normal and acceptable by virtually everyone. The right to disagree is a pretty novel thing historically speaking.
I would tie bigotry directly to a society's tech level. As technology increases, resulting in a more educated populace and greater amounts of trade between diverse people and places, people become more open-minded and bigotry decreases. This can be seen throughout history, really, with the worst bigotry being during the dark ages and massive social strides in tolerance moving in tandem with the industrial revolution.
Based on this, I would consider energy and other fundamental resources to be the most important issue facing America today. Because if something starts to interfere with our technology, you can bet we'll start moving towards greater bigotry as well. But if we can keep our tech level increasing, bigotry in all its nasty forms will continue to decrease.
My theory, for what it's worth.
Fascinating, and totally off the charts of what I was expecting. Thank you, CtH!!
Here in the west of Scotland, our particular brand of bigotry is sectarianism. Catholics against Protestants. I just despair of it. It seems to be getting better but we've a long way to go. It's so petty, too, with my Catholic father refusing to use blue cigarette lighters and saying "Hail, hail" instead of "Hello" because Rangers sing a song called "Hello." I mean, really...
It's not to say we're a racism-free utopia, because we're a long way from that, but people still seem to reserve their most vile hatred for those of the "wrong" religion. My mum's English and moved up here when she was 14. She was routinely asked if she was Catholic or Protestant and she didn't have a clue; she had to ask my gran. My gran says she's never got over meeting people and listening to the spite and venom directed at the "wrong" religion - from seemingly normal, sane people. I've heard anecdotally of Catholics calling their children Ira (as in IRA) and Protestants training their dogs to bark at people in Celtic shirts. E-bloody-nough. Thank you.
It's not to say we're a racism-free utopia, because we're a long way from that, but people still seem to reserve their most vile hatred for those of the "wrong" religion. My mum's English and moved up here when she was 14. She was routinely asked if she was Catholic or Protestant and she didn't have a clue; she had to ask my gran. My gran says she's never got over meeting people and listening to the spite and venom directed at the "wrong" religion - from seemingly normal, sane people. I've heard anecdotally of Catholics calling their children Ira (as in IRA) and Protestants training their dogs to bark at people in Celtic shirts. E-bloody-nough. Thank you.
In my opinion bigotry is still a big issue in the US, but it's not nearly as bad as it was, say a couple generations ago. Though it's still quite easy to see examples of verious types of bigotry (homophobia, transphobia, racism, sexism, towards minority religions, etc) in many parts of the country.
To add to this quote, it also appears often after major disasters (natural or man made). For example, during the bubonic plague, a lot of jews were tortured and killed because they were blamed for the plague. And here in the US, there's been a lot of bigotry towards Islam and arabs since 9/11.
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^^...and the fundamentalist spewers who blame floods, tornadoes and hurricanes on homosexuals. 
I'm glad I do not spend time in offices anymore for the fact that a lot of bigotry is subtle.
I think the problem in general (racist, sexist, religious, elitist, whatever) is still quite alive and well all over the U.S., even among the "educated" classes who "should" know better.
I'm glad I do not spend time in offices anymore for the fact that a lot of bigotry is subtle.
I think the problem in general (racist, sexist, religious, elitist, whatever) is still quite alive and well all over the U.S., even among the "educated" classes who "should" know better.
I'm wondering if you can remember anything anecdotal. I'm not challenging you; I'm just curious to see it through your eyes. . . . .^^...and the fundamentalist spewers who blame floods, tornadoes and hurricanes on homosexuals.
I'm glad I do not spend time in offices anymore for the fact that a lot of bigotry is subtle.
I think the problem in general (racist, sexist, religious, elitist, whatever) is still quite alive and well all over the U.S., even among the "educated" classes who "should" know better.
I've found that people who throw around the accusation of bigotry and racism over small things tend to be expressing it themselves but using someone else as a black curtain to hide themselves and their own prejudices as manifested through slights and insults that just aren't there.
I'll point to the recent hallmark thread as an example of that.
I'll point to the recent hallmark thread as an example of that.
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Memory is good...and long!
1-Calling a family "the black people," or "you know, the lesbians", instead of "Spot's owners" (like a straight, white family would be designated). It's half-whispered, so you know they're being sensitive, wink, wink.
2-Making complete sport of a trans lady, who otherwise minds her business, looks after her pets and pays her bills. And not being particularly concerned if she might be within ear-shot, or be able to take note of the employees running in-and-out of the back rooms to gawk.
3-Saying something's "gay", "retarded" or "black" in order to distinguish the subject from "normal", "acceptable" or "right".
4-Nobody works here who is not white. I mean, the really right kind of white. "She just didn't - you know - fit what we're looking for."
Subtle? Maybe, when the bigot is used to sneak-bashing. The higher the education, the more "cleverly" the comments are constructed.
Is it bigotry, even when the speaker is unenlightened to their own prejudicial habits? Sure.
Here's Pat Robertson claiming that the Haiti earthquake was the direct result of the country's pact with the devil (?!?):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5TE99sAbwM
But he enjoys a good gay-bash on a practically daily basis. People take him seriously.
I think we have to pick out battles carefully for greatest effect, but this kind of environment is a drip, drip, drip of irritating blither...
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I'm in New Jersey...within an hour of New York City. New Jersey prides itself on its progressive politics, but things can be raw socially "up close". Much of what goes on is no-doubt learned at home, and you could probably get punched in the face for telling someone, "You know, that was racist."
But people can pick up when you don't really find them amusing or pithy...so there is also some kind of vibe that communicates, "Not around me, thanks. I prefer to take folks as they are."
I was working in a medical office...doctors, technicians, college grads, fancy equipment and townhouse clientele.
But people can pick up when you don't really find them amusing or pithy...so there is also some kind of vibe that communicates, "Not around me, thanks. I prefer to take folks as they are."
I was working in a medical office...doctors, technicians, college grads, fancy equipment and townhouse clientele.
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To get back to Michael's point about definitions, I think it's important to make a distinction between bigotry and oppression. Bigotry reflects an individual's beliefs, attitudes and behaviors. Oppression is systematic and institutionalized.
The latter is more dangerous than the former, and both are alive and well in the US in my opinion. Bigotry is recently seen here in NYC where a person (or persons) defaced a homeless shelter for LGBT teens with threatening graffiti. And I'd say at the very least once a year synagogues are defaced with swastikas. We've had a spate of anti-immigrant bashings, several of them fatal.
In terms of oppression, well you've got a system of unequal privilege based on our history of excluding blacks from the political process, education, etc.. I can't rattle the stats off the top of my head, but oppression plays out through an income gap and education gap between whites and blacks (plus the hugely disproportionate number of black men who are incarcerated--a situation that relates both to the above and America's "drug war.")
Just some thoughts for now. I'll let others take the mike.
The latter is more dangerous than the former, and both are alive and well in the US in my opinion. Bigotry is recently seen here in NYC where a person (or persons) defaced a homeless shelter for LGBT teens with threatening graffiti. And I'd say at the very least once a year synagogues are defaced with swastikas. We've had a spate of anti-immigrant bashings, several of them fatal.
In terms of oppression, well you've got a system of unequal privilege based on our history of excluding blacks from the political process, education, etc.. I can't rattle the stats off the top of my head, but oppression plays out through an income gap and education gap between whites and blacks (plus the hugely disproportionate number of black men who are incarcerated--a situation that relates both to the above and America's "drug war.")
Just some thoughts for now. I'll let others take the mike.
I had a group project at "Uni" D) and in the first round, an African girl from South Africa was put with a Afrikaaner dude -- and it didn't go well. Later, he was with me and treated me perfectly civilly. Astounding, every time I see it.
The girl from Texas and the Northern English girl wouldn't sit socially with the two African girls -- perhqps coincidence, of course. A Portsmouth gal and I did, gladly. And a Portuguese/Swiss dude hung with us. The African girls got on so well, except for one joke about the 3rd world (one was Swahili, the other from Johannisburg).
The Afrikaaner (who was a nice guy, excepting) got his one night, drunk in a church, when one of the Irish dudes joked too much about God. He's an atheist former-Catholic. It was scandalous, and nearly a rather interesting smack-down!
That was the tip of the iceberg, as I'm sure most of y'all all know already.
Yeah, you see it a lot It's a crazy, crazy world.
D) and in the first round, an African girl from South Africa was put with a Afrikaaner dude -- and it didn't go well. Later, he was with me and treated me perfectly civilly. Astounding, every time I see it.The girl from Texas and the Northern English girl wouldn't sit socially with the two African girls -- perhqps coincidence, of course. A Portsmouth gal and I did, gladly. And a Portuguese/Swiss dude hung with us. The African girls got on so well, except for one joke about the 3rd world (one was Swahili, the other from Johannisburg
).The Afrikaaner (who was a nice guy, excepting) got his one night, drunk in a church, when one of the Irish dudes joked too much about God. He's an atheist former-Catholic. It was scandalous, and nearly a rather interesting smack-down!
That was the tip of the iceberg, as I'm sure most of y'all all know already.
Yeah, you see it a lot
It's a crazy, crazy world.This is very interesting. I'd love to examine some examples of this, because the trouble I'm having is that I'm thinking of some examples to the contrary. One example that immediately came to mind is the website Stormfront - a forum for white nationalists. I used to browse the forums sometimes, just because I was curious about what these guys were saying. I'm sure it comes as no shock that there was some pretty sick shit on there. But the reason why I thought of this is because it's an online community where people can meet and disseminate ideas - all because of the technology they have. It wouldn't have been possible for most of human history.
So technology seems like a tool that can be used for anything - for good, or for evil. Some societies have become generally more liberal over time - the United States being one of them, but it's not clear to me how technology has played a role in that. Perhaps I don't know very much about technology.
I was also interested in the link between education and a lack of bigotry. This to me seems like a mixed bag. One counterexample that comes to mind is Japan. I've never been to Japan, so maybe some people know more about this, but Japan strikes me as having a fairly educated population (and technologically advanced, too). And one of the things I commonly hear about the Japanese is that they're xenophobic. And that this has pretty much always been the case. For instance, they don't like the Chinese very much, and never have, really.
And as unpopular as bringing up the Nazis is on this board, I feel like it's a good example: the Germans were no worse educated or technologically advanced than most European countries.
So, those were just some things that came to mind when I read this. But a very thought-provoking post, nonetheless.
Mankind is consumed with classifying itself and identifying those that are different. It has been the bane of our existence. We all have what seems to be an inherent need to belong. At the same time we have a keen knack for determing who it is that does not belong once we have determined an "identity". Nevermind that much of who we are is determined at our birth (rich/poor, black/white, christian/jew, gay/straight etc.) none of that matters. This is the world in which we live. It is what makes the dream of America as a melting pot so elusive. I don't know that we as a species can overcome our need to assign classification or to recognize more readily the differences rather than the similarities. It's a state of humanity, not a fundamentalist preacher or a nutjob zealot in a far off land. It's in your house, it's in your church, it's in your school and even your government. Bigotry it seems, is in our DNA.
I had a group project at "Uni"
The girl from Texas and the Northern English girl wouldn't sit socially with the two African girls -- perhqps coincidence, of course. A Portsmouth gal and I did, gladly. And a Portuguese/Swiss dude hung with us. The African girls got on so well, except for one joke about the 3rd world (one was Swahili, the other from Johannisburg
The Afrikaaner (who was a nice guy, excepting) got his one night, drunk in a church, when one of the Irish dudes joked too much about God. He's an atheist former-Catholic. It was scandalous, and nearly a rather interesting smack-down!
That was the tip of the iceberg, as I'm sure most of y'all all know already.
Yeah, you see it a lot
I don't know what to say, BSB other than I agree, it is a crazy world, but did you see any pattern or any common justification for why these folks acted as they did??
Let's assume it is in human DNA. Do you think we can overcome it with reason, Torrance? I guess what I'm asking is if you see a light at the end of the tunnel?
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*shrug* I know I arbitrarily refuse registrations on a pretty regular basis (two or three a week, some weeks) because of usernames like "faggotssuck" and so on. Most of those user-names incorporate racial epithets.
There was just so much interest and stereotyping based on where folks were from. It was fascinating! It was a mixed bag -- a lot of interest, too. But had you told a couple of folks how amazingly well-connected and wealthy one of the African girls was, for instance, I know their jaws would be on the floor. They saw starving children when they looked at her, you could tell.
They couldn't tell the two Portuguese guys apart. One was a super-hotty, and the other, definitely not.
Just fascinating. I'd sound bad trying to explain it, but y'all all know. Some folks are bigots, others just unconsciously and unintentionally, and others much less so.
One of the girls told me how absolutely clueless I am about the world. She's right, too.
Oh, and I'm irked at how anti-American a lot of Irish people are. I kept rubbing in how much alike we are when examples came up
They couldn't tell the two Portuguese guys apart. One was a super-hotty, and the other, definitely not.
Just fascinating. I'd sound bad trying to explain it, but y'all all know. Some folks are bigots, others just unconsciously and unintentionally, and others much less so.
One of the girls told me how absolutely clueless I am about the world. She's right, too.
Oh, and I'm irked at how anti-American a lot of Irish people are. I kept rubbing in how much alike we are when examples came up
Many, some or most, but not all. Not by a long shot. Different doesn't mean "bad" to everyone.
I know you're honest but I guess it's hard to accept. Is it possible that these people are the same people? And do you think that bigotry is widespread, predicated on your own experience here??
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