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Other
06-07-2010, 08:54 PM
I need to know what kind of juices or blood (or both) come out when an alive liver is cut into. I also need to know the same for a just removed liver.

Thanks so much!

Haggis
06-07-2010, 08:56 PM
I need to know what kind of juices or blood (or both) come out when an alive liver is cut into. I also need to know the same for a just removed liver.

Thanks so much!

I love AbsoluteWrite. :roll:

Jorge A.
06-07-2010, 09:33 PM
Wrong forum. You need the serial killers forum. I kid, i kid. But where else would you get a question like that. I suggest finding someone that hunts and asking them.

Drachen Jager
06-07-2010, 09:50 PM
People who hunt don't cut into the liver. It's separated with the other internal organs the hunter intends to keep or left behind with the gutpile but you don't slice it up when it's fresh.

A surgeon would be a better bet.

Haggis
06-07-2010, 10:44 PM
I'm willing to bet someone will come along with the answer before too long.

Drachen Jager
06-07-2010, 10:52 PM
Bah, you should do your own research Other! I found the answer for you in about a minute.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ae3H4ZFCaA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD_Tlu1JUoI&feature=related

If those don't do it there are dozens of other liver surgery videos you can look at.

Other
06-08-2010, 08:07 PM
Wrong forum. You need the serial killers forum. I kid, i kid. But where else would you get a question like that. I suggest finding someone that hunts and asking them.

Giggle... No it is a zombie novel!

Drachen Jager
06-08-2010, 08:42 PM
Then you should definitely be checking out the surgical videos on Youtube, lots of guts and gore there!

GeorgeK
06-09-2010, 08:21 PM
I'm a retired surgeon and I live on a farm that tries for self sufficiency. We butcher our own livestock. Cutting into living liver is different than recently deceased. In the live state you will probably only see blood because the liver bleeds rather easily. When butchering there will be a little blood, not much (since the heart is no longer pumping blood into it), but you will notice the bile. It's sort of olive drab green and it has a certain feel to it like a very light syrup. When butchering you want to remove the liver intact and then on a different table you extract the gall bladder and the larger bile ducts being careful not to spill any of the bile on the meat. Then wash the liver, pat it dry and season it with white pepper and garlic and fry it in olive oil. Yum. If you ever try fresh liver you won't believe the stuff in the grocery store is even related. It spoils quickly even if refrigerated.

Bile as an aroma is something most people can't seem to smell. Those of us who can smell it often say it's sort of like a subtle whiff of vomit. The taste is horrendous and a lot of myths about butchering this or that animal under certain circumstances probably revolve around what was actually sloppy butchering and spilling bile, urine or feces on the meat.

Other
06-09-2010, 10:47 PM
Thanks GeorgeK!

Do you think an experienced and intelligent zombie would be able to reach into a body and pull out an intact liver (she has sharp fingernails that she can use to cut connective tissue, etc.) by feel?

Fenika
06-10-2010, 12:13 AM
Aw, George beat me to it :(

;)


If you ever try fresh liver you won't believe the stuff in the grocery store is even related. It spoils quickly even if refrigerated.


Good to know. I will have to try some fresh liver.


Thanks GeorgeK!

Do you think an experienced and intelligent zombie would be able to reach into a body and pull out an intact liver (she has sharp fingernails that she can use to cut connective tissue, etc.) by feel?

Yep, as long as she's hacked a decent gap in the body first. During necropsy we lie an animal on their side, open about 1/3 the abdomen from spine to midline, and then pull the ribs off to expose the liver better before cutting it out. But if we went off feel, we could have that liver out by sliding our hands in and following up to its connective tissue bits (several) and making a few slices. Gotta cut the major vessels to, ofc.

A freshly dead liver, sliced and parted, will ooze a bit as the sinosoids drain. We actually look at how it oozes in necropsy to help determine if it was swollen/diseased.

Kalyke
06-10-2010, 05:47 AM
Does the liver of a person who drinks a lot of alcohol taste better or worse than a fresh beef liver sautéed with onions?

DrZoidberg
06-10-2010, 11:57 AM
I don't know anything about cutting into livers, but if anybody wants to eat liver that tastes absolutely divine, it's big in central and eastern Europe. Especially in the sticks. Good to keep in mind when you "do Europe". They've got a knack for all innard foods. One of the most fantastic culinary experiences I've ever had was liver in an Italian restaurant. Wasn't even expensive. I was almost brought to tears when I ran out of my Hungarian sausage back home.

Priene
06-10-2010, 12:21 PM
My mum used to cook liver. That certainly brought me to tears.

Other
06-10-2010, 09:58 PM
Thanks Fenika and Use Her Name! I have never tried fresh liver, Dr. Zoidberg. Unless a 3 day old elk liver counts. I didn't care for it. I HATE the stuff from the store.

Rowan
06-11-2010, 03:47 AM
You need to talk to C.M. Daniels---he's a coroner. Or better yet...go buy some liver at the butcher's and cut it up. ;)

2Wheels
06-11-2010, 07:19 AM
Does the liver of a person who drinks a lot of alcohol taste better or worse than a fresh beef liver sautéed with onions?
If there's anyone here who can actually answer that, then Houston, we have a problem.

Fenika
06-11-2010, 07:34 AM
The resident zombies take offense at your remark.



:)

Other
06-11-2010, 08:46 PM
Thanks for the idea, Rowan. Unfortunately I live in a small town where meats of the freshness I need are not sold. Otherwise I would have cut up a fresh liver by now.

Rowan
06-12-2010, 04:41 AM
Well, then your best bet is a coroner...like I said---there's one on the board (C.M. Daniels).
Good luck.

GeorgeK
06-13-2010, 05:08 AM
Thanks GeorgeK!

Do you think an experienced and intelligent zombie would be able to reach into a body and pull out an intact liver (she has sharp fingernails that she can use to cut connective tissue, etc.) by feel?

(I'm assuming the liver is to be eaten and not transplanted) If it's dead or at least not fighting, and assuming the fingernails/claws are at least moderately sharp, or the zombie is not worried about the liver itself tearing, then yes. If the zombie is trying to do it as a combat maneuver then no. The liver is held in place by what are essentially scars attaching it in just a few places to the diaphragm and or the abdominal wall, plus the many blood vessels. The blood vessels will tear easily and the liver will tear easier than the areas of connective tissue. The most believable would be the zombie pulls it out in a 2-3 large pieces or maybe one large chunk while leaving a bit behind. For butchering purposes, the liver is one of the easier solid organs to remove, and we often do most of it by feel, since making a big hole makes the intestines flop around and get in the way. The spleen is the easiest since it often doesn't have any attachments other than the blood supply, which is probably why it tends to get damaged easily by rapid deceleration injuries.

GeorgeK
06-13-2010, 05:11 AM
Thanks Fenika and Use Her Name! I have never tried fresh liver, Dr. Zoidberg. Unless a 3 day old elk liver counts. I didn't care for it. I HATE the stuff from the store.


No, it is not fresh if the sun set on it, even once.

Typically the liver is the first organ removed (at least when we do it) and I cook it up while my kids are butchering the carcass. Then I let it rest about 10 minutes, cube it and bring it out to those working. They eat it with skewers. That's what I mean by fresh. We call it food cubes.

Other
06-13-2010, 09:54 PM
(I'm assuming the liver is to be eaten and not transplanted) If it's dead or at least not fighting, and assuming the fingernails/claws are at least moderately sharp, or the zombie is not worried about the liver itself tearing, then yes. If the zombie is trying to do it as a combat maneuver then no. The liver is held in place by what are essentially scars attaching it in just a few places to the diaphragm and or the abdominal wall, plus the many blood vessels. The blood vessels will tear easily and the liver will tear easier than the areas of connective tissue. The most believable would be the zombie pulls it out in a 2-3 large pieces or maybe one large chunk while leaving a bit behind. For butchering purposes, the liver is one of the easier solid organs to remove, and we often do most of it by feel, since making a big hole makes the intestines flop around and get in the way. The spleen is the easiest since it often doesn't have any attachments other than the blood supply, which is probably why it tends to get damaged easily by rapid deceleration injuries.

Thank you so much! The zombie is pulling the liver out to eat it. Her claws/fingernails are very sharp and she has done this many, many times before.

The human is bleeding out (she tore open his jugular) and he has a substantial hole in his abdomen. It has been a few minutes from the initial attack. I assume that at that point he wouldn't be up to fighting much. Then she reaches into his abdomen, fishes around, and uses her nails to cut the liver free.

If you think that under those circumstances she would still tear the liver, then I'll do that.

Thanks!

GeorgeK
06-15-2010, 10:03 PM
The victim would probable experience intense nausea from someone rooting around in their guts while still awake. (ignoring the additional neck trauma) Once the liver is yanked off the portal blood vessels they'd have a sudden drop in the blood returning to the heart causing a drop in blood pressure so rapidly that they'd probably be nearly instantly incapacitated, unconscious in under a minute (probably less than ten seconds) and probably dead in another minute. When butchering, it's easiest to slide your hand over the liver and under the diaphragm. There's a nice open space there (once air is in the abdomen through the incision), slide the hand to either side and tear down the attachments to the diaphragm, then slide your hand over the liver and retract down and toward yourself and sever the vessels from behind in nearly a blind fashion, so I could easily envision a zombie doing the same using claws/nails in place of a knife.

Other
06-16-2010, 08:32 PM
Thanks!