Legitimate targets

I don't think you can make a blanket assumption. I had a few PA employees who were very nice to me and even did things they weren't required to do for my book.

That said, I would think their consciences would bother them after a while. If they can be faced with the consequences of what they are helping promote with PA ( and for $11/hr??) , maybe PA will implode.

DaveKuzminski said:

Should current PA employees be considered legitimate targets for criticism?

I view them as soldiers of the enemy, so to speak, to put it into a framework that might be more understandable. In other words, to get to the enemy country, you have to first deal with the enemy soldiers.

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I've stated this before: they have to know that their "authors" won't sell very many books. They know that PA's authors buy more books than they sell. They know what marketing (that is, none) PA does for its authors. They process the few outside orders that actually come in. These people are fully aware and knowing participants in this process.

There might be a few part-timers whose tangential duties leave them out of the loop. I'd compare them to support personel and MASH units, not the active soldiers. Don't beat on them. As far as the "editors" and other decision-makers at every level--yeah, they're targets of opportunity.

You'll get far farther by making them your friends. They'll become sources of information.

Most of the PA employees, so far as I can tell, are young women with liberal arts degrees -- just graduated from college and in their first jobs. They don't know any better.

Look at how much good attacking you did PA.

Hmmm, well, it will come back to bite them in the butt when they try to move on to a better job in the publishing industry and have Publish America on their resume'. Just how much chance do you think that will give them?


I totally agree about the culpability.

As far as how much good it'll do 'em on their resumes -- it'll do as much good as a PA author listing their book in a cover letter when submitting a work to a legitimate publisher.

This'll be the blank space on their resumes, the period where they claim they were clam diggers or hitch-hiking around America trying to find themselves.

If they ever do go on to legitimate publishing they'll have a lot of bad habits to overcome.

I think the employees came in wide-eyed and ignorant, given the rah-rah pep talk, followed by a vinegar sandwich and a cup of Koolaid. They were told they had just stepped upon the ground floor and were participating in a historical event--one that would change the (Printing) industry forever. Then some time later they got gut cramps and bad breath. But they are most likely aware now, but holding on to their jobs out of obligation and necessity. Most likely they've all been given the helm of Info-Lier at one point or another to test their company loyalty. That would be their initiation--similar to sacrificing a rabbit over an altar. I would like to know if they rotate the InfoLier shifts to most employees, or whether this aspect is kept on the hush-and-hush.

I think their guilty after the fact.

Tri

Here's my philosophy on InfoCenter. Every Monday, they have a meeting to prepare for the week. One of the head honchos gets up and says " Ok, which one of you will be having really bad PMS this week?" And those who raise their hands get to be InfoCenter for the week. It spares the other employees from dealing with their moods, and gives the PMSers an outlet for their frustrations.

Dave K, what, specifically, did you have in mind?

I personally worked at a job I hated, doing something I found morally disagreeable, because it was literally the only job I could find and I needed rent and groceries. I've got no right nor inclination to condemn anyone in the same position.

OTOH, I wasn't saving up for a European vacation; that job wasn't about earning extra pocket money for me, but about survival.

I would far rather have a mole than a target.

If I couldn't befriend them, I'd sit quietly, listen to what they said, and hope they didn't notice me listening in order to gain useful intelligence.

Fair enough, Jim. If we can manage to capture one of them, the Geneva convention rules will apply...

I think the employees at PA were duped the same as the authors were. Lets face it people; they are good at weaving a good sounding game. They give the rah-rah speech to the newbies and it sounds wonderful. Just like the newbie writers, they think they have hit the big time. Imagine how many kids right out of college are impressed with finding their first real job with a publisher? I would be impressed with myself at first too.

However, when it becomes clear how deceptive PA is, I only respect the ones who run, and run fast. I personally could not work for a company that is killing people's dreams and lying to them over and over again. But then again, I've never wondered where my next meal was coming from either. I cannot judge but I have little respect for the ones who stay and take part in the games. I have seen more of them leave in the last four years than stay and I would like to think that has something to say about the integrity of the average person.

BA

If I were the cops, and I had a phone tap on a couple of low-level Mafia guys' phones, my first move wouldn't be to knock on their doors and say "I'M FROM THE POLICE! WE HAVE YOUR PHONE TAPPED! ARE YOU AWARE THAT THE MAFIA IS A CRIMINAL ORGANIZATION?" And I wouldn't run around posting transcripts of their phone conversations on pro-Mafia web boards, either.

Indeed...we see what happens when people post links to threads on the PA boards...

James D. Macdonald said:

I would far rather have a mole than a target.

If I couldn't befriend them, I'd sit quietly, listen to what they said, and hope they didn't notice me listening in order to gain useful intelligence.

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I totally agree, which is why I was trying to find out more of what Dave was planning to do to them. That could be extraordinarily useful.

I'm reminded of the song and dance pep talk the Wal Mart employees supposedly get before they start work each morning. Is that true or a myth? Anyway....I'm just suggesting that maybe the employees were duped? Like the WalMart employees who think it's so wonderful that this mighty giant helps them do morning jumping jacks and paints there faces with scary symbolic smiles..."Wow, it's great working at WAL MART! WooHOO!" And then, after every other store in the area folds into bankruptcy, and Wal Mart decides, "Hmmm, maybe this is not a good spot for a store afterall?" the scary-faced smiling WalMart employees show up one morning with their roll of yellow stickers and they're all gungho to do their jumping jacks...only to find out that they are out of jobs. They served on the evil empire...selling everything under God's sun for $197.77 or less, but they didn't know they were plugged into Satan? They walk up to the locked doors, try to open them with their smiley stickers, realize they are out in the cold with the rest of their burned out town and they finally deflate from their 2-year jumping jack frenzy and they start to realize that they helped to eat their own young and some fatazz named Walton is living high on the hog in a winterwonderland somewhere in Kissmyazz, Kansas. (Whoa! Slow down self. What the heck are you talking about?)

It's just something to mull over?

KTC said:

I'm reminded of the song and dance pep talk the Wal Mart employees supposedly get before they start work each morning. Is that true or a myth?

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Off-topic, but I'm posting it anyway because I understand having to know something:
True. I have seen it. It was very creepy and is why I now shop mostly at Target and other places that don't make brainwashing rituals part of the morning startup.

Thank you for clarifying. I meant it to be on topic...I was merely making a comparison...maybe suggesting the employees of PA had no idea of the wreckage they were causing, so happy were they to be able to be doing jumping jacks.

Our roommate is a Wal-Mart employee...
Although it does happen each day, three times a day (three shifts), it's not a "brainwashing" technique...
They also discuss daily sales, celebrate anniversaries and birthdays, and announce what areas they need to improve in, customer complaints and whatnot.

The "song and dance" is to try and keep up morale...
(btw, each store has a different cheer)

astonwest said:

Our roommate is a Wal-Mart employee...
Although it does happen each day, three times a day (three shifts), it's not a "brainwashing" technique...

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My brother's a Walmart manager. I consider it corporate-identity brainwashing. YMMV.
(Since this is OT for this thread--sorry, Dave--shall we continue it elsewhere, if we feel the need?)

Job seekers are advised to research the company they are applying to and/or interviewing for. They are supposed to ask questions and have a fair knowledge of the company during the interview. And of course the web makes this easy.

Wouldn't college graduates who apply to work at PA as editors and whatnot research PA before their interviews? And we all know what kind of information is available about PA on the web.

I wonder what kinds of questions they ask? Or do they even dare?

allen

DaveKuzminski said:

My idea is to send a copy of the blog page to MP without the name. If they figure out who she is, that's her tough luck. She's down on PA authors and is just working there to get a jumpstart on her employment record and earn enough for a trip to Europe. Bah! I really think she deserves to be outed.

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Do you think PA cares what the employees think of PA or of authors?