Is writing traditional fantasy wise?

roostercharmer · Jun 2, 2010

I'm new here (though not to forums in general) so if this is already being discussed somewhere I apologize.

It just seems the trend these days is for publishers not to want traditional fantasy but more urban-type fantasy or fantasy grounded more in realism, modern times and the planet Earth. And wasn't it Stephen King who said we should write the novel that will be popular in two years, not today? I'm thinking in a couple of years these types of novels will be even more popular.

I ask because I've just started on novel #2 and it's traditional fantasy (no wizards, elves and dwarves but definitely set on some planet that resembles past Earth but has it's own history and rules). I'm wondering if I should scrap the setting and restart it set in modern earth, or at least make it a historical fantasy. As much as I love writing for writing, I do want to get published. And maybe after I've got something more mainstream under my belt I'll be in a position to get those traditional fantasies out there.

What do you all think?

Nivarion · Jun 2, 2010

roostercharmer said:
I'm new here (though not to forums in general) so if this is already being discussed somewhere I apologize.

It just seems the trend these days is for publishers not to want traditional fantasy but more urban-type fantasy or fantasy grounded more in realism, modern times and the planet Earth. And wasn't it Stephen King who said we should write the novel that will be popular in two years, not today? I'm thinking in a couple of years these types of novels will be even more popular.

I ask because I've just started on novel #2 and it's traditional fantasy (no wizards, elves and dwarves but definitely set on some planet that resembles past Earth but has it's own history and rules). I'm wondering if I should scrap the setting and restart it set in modern earth, or at least make it a historical fantasy. As much as I love writing for writing, I do want to get published. And maybe after I've got something more mainstream under my belt I'll be in a position to get those traditional fantasies out there.

What do you all think?

High fantasy, the type your thinking of, is still very popular today. Urban fantasy is a popular genre, but its got more.... uh hype I guess.

On the writing level of them good high fantasy and good urban fantasy are stories of the same quality and craftsmanship.

So it really comes down to the story. Fantasy tends to be more about the people and ideas involved, than about the setting and macguffins.

So just think about your story. Is it better told as urban or high fantasy?

RemusShepherd · Jun 2, 2010

The thing is, if you don't write the story you want to write, you'll never finish it -- or you'll finish it in a soulless, mechanical way that will make it unsatisfying to read.

Write what you want to write.

Now, if you have ideas for both high and urban fantasy novels, you might decide to write the urban fantasy first. But the book you write second will turn out better because you'll have learned more. So it's still a tradeoff.

My advice is not to worry about it too much.

Kweei · Jun 2, 2010

I wouldn't force your story into something it's not. It will show in your writing and you might end up resentful.

For example, I know sex sells, but I just am not interested in writing detailed sex scenes in any of my writing, whether it's fantasy or something else. If I did, it would show that I was forcing it.

Not sure how that will impact me later one when I'm looking to shop the manuscript around, but I have to stay true to my interests.

thothguard51 · Jun 2, 2010

A prolific writer might come up with scads of idea's on what sells tomorrow. They are so prolific in fact, they have a scad of trunked novels they can take out and refresh to meet future market trends.

Unfortunately, I am not one of those writers and know very few who are. I write what I know and know what I write. If its not popular today, I'll wait 20 years and it will be popular again...

Ineti · Jun 2, 2010

Write what you're passionate about. Don't chase trends or try to predict the industry. Write what you enjoy writing and if you do it well, you'll get published.

virtue_summer · Jun 2, 2010

roostercharmer said:
I'm new here (though not to forums in general) so if this is already being discussed somewhere I apologize.

It just seems the trend these days is for publishers not to want traditional fantasy but more urban-type fantasy or fantasy grounded more in realism, modern times and the planet Earth. And wasn't it Stephen King who said we should write the novel that will be popular in two years, not today? I'm thinking in a couple of years these types of novels will be even more popular.

I ask because I've just started on novel #2 and it's traditional fantasy (no wizards, elves and dwarves but definitely set on some planet that resembles past Earth but has it's own history and rules). I'm wondering if I should scrap the setting and restart it set in modern earth, or at least make it a historical fantasy. As much as I love writing for writing, I do want to get published. And maybe after I've got something more mainstream under my belt I'll be in a position to get those traditional fantasies out there.

What do you all think?

The part in bold is an assumption on your part that may or may not end up being the case. Tastes change. Two years from now it may turn out that there's a wider demand for high fantasy than urban fantasy. The thing is that there's really no way to know. What you've suggested is actually writing for today's market because you assume it will be the same tomorrow. So what happens if you write something your heart's not in and then the market changes and you spent all that time on something that's no easier to sell than your high fantasy is now? Write the stories you love and make them so good that nobody can resist them and when published they can create market trends, rather than trying to follow them. Just my opinion, of course.

Mr Flibble · Jun 2, 2010

Look in your local bookshop. Trad fantasy is way more prolific in mine than UF (although I'm in the UK, it may be different where you are)

And for some advice from someone who knows better than me: Don't write to the market, but write with the market at the back of your mind.

In other words: Don't churn out a vampire romance novel because 'that's what sells', but write your story knowing what is popular / selling / readers like.

If you don't know what is popular - read recently pubbed books found on your local book shop shelves. Know your market.

MGraybosch · Jun 2, 2010

roostercharmer said:
What do you all think?

I think you should write the novel that you want to write, revise until you're ready to publish it, and let the publisher decide why he won't publish your work. Right now you sound like a guy who wants to ask a girl out but keeps making up reasons why she'll say no. Stop that.

Paul · Jun 2, 2010

MGraybosch said:
I think you should write the novel that you want to write, revise until you're ready to publish it, and let the publisher decide why he won't publish your work. Right now you sound like a guy who wants to ask a girl out but keeps making up reasons why she'll say no. Stop that.

The embolden text is going on my favourite quotes list.

I agree with 7 of the 8 excellent responses. 8 out of 8, my mistakeLike what you right, cos no matter how ambitious you are, you won't summon the energy to continue.

On the other side of things, the great thing about fantasy is that it is open to new inventions, compare Donaldson with Gemmell and Martin, and Butcher and...

MGraybosch · Jun 2, 2010

roostercharmer said:
I ask because I've just started on novel #2 and it's traditional fantasy (no wizards, elves and dwarves but definitely set on some planet that resembles past Earth but has it's own history and rules).

By the way, I think it's fair to say that since The Lord of the Rings has not been allowed to go out of print, there's still a market for traditional fantasy. And if you think you have it tough, try writing urban fantasy that doesn't have vampires, werewolves, or faeries.

I just got yet another rejection for Starbreaker. The agent, who I'll leave unnamed, said, "Couldn't you make the devas into vampires, and the asuras into werewolves? Couldn't you change the Insof into Queen Mab or Cthulhu, and change the Starbreaker into Excalibur?"

I was tempted to write a very short letter consisting of the following: "Not without utterly ruining the story, you demon-ridden waste of ammo."

Rhys Cordelle · Jun 2, 2010

MGraybosch said:
I just got yet another rejection for Starbreaker. The agent, who I'll leave unnamed, said, "Couldn't you make the devas into vampires, and the asuras into werewolves? Couldn't you change the Insof into Queen Mab or Cthulhu, and change the Starbreaker into Excalibur?"

Are you serious?!?! That's TERRIBLE!

Damn you Stephanie Myer. Look what you've done to the market! I'm so sick of seeing a whole display of vampire novels in every book store I go into.

thothguard51 · Jun 2, 2010

Die vampires. Die, a quick death.

Rhys Cordelle · Jun 2, 2010

roostercharmer · Jun 2, 2010

You people are awesome. Let's just get that out there right now.

Starting at approx. this moment: "Right now you sound like a guy who wants to ask a girl out but keeps making up reasons why she'll say no. Stop that." things started getting hilarious.

Yes, I was having a moment. I've been trying to get my first novel published, which can be discouraging at the best of times as you all know. But thanks. All fantastic, positive replies and I appreciate every one. You're all right--gotta write what I love and feel passionate about, screw the trends. I've actually got a near-future sci-fi idea brewing that I'm really excited about so maybe I'll start on that, too.

And vampires may just be dead. I read in another thread somewhere on here that werewolves are the new "it" legendary creature. :Shrug:

Rhys Cordelle · Jun 2, 2010

So does that mean Team Jacob won?

Yep, real men morph into oversized wolves.

Kweei · Jun 2, 2010

thothguard51 said:
Die vampires. Die, a quick death.

But they always come back! *cries*

MGraybosch · Jun 2, 2010

Rhys Cordelle said:
Are you serious?!?! That's TERRIBLE!

I am serious, but don't just blame Stiffenie Meyer. Blame Laurell K. Hamilton for making urban fantasy synonymous with vampires and werewhatevers. The hell of it is that Starbreaker actually had a vampire character. His name was Aleister Crowley, and he was helping the protagonist.

MGraybosch · Jun 2, 2010

roostercharmer said:
And vampires may just be dead. I read in another thread somewhere on here that werewolves are the new "it" legendary creature.

Vampires went from suck to blow when Anne Rice used Lestat to take a whack at rewriting Dante in Memnoch the Devil.

Rhys Cordelle · Jun 2, 2010

Memnoch the Devil is where I gave up on her series. I was a fan but I lost interest reading that.

The thing is, I actually am a big fan of vampires, but I've gotten into a headspace where I assume that any new book featuring vampires is going to be of the Twilight variety. I shouldn't be so quick to judge.

Death Wizard · Jun 2, 2010

I disagree with some of what's being said here. In my experience, which has now spanned six years of on-again, off-again success regarding my high fantasy series, I have come to the conclusion that high fantasy is indeed a very difficult sell right now-- far more difficult than urban fantasy and several other forms.

I agree when people say that you can't force something just because it might or might not be popular. But high fantasy is really tough right now. Really tough.

Mouseferatu · Jun 3, 2010

MGraybosch said:
The hell of it is that Starbreaker actually had a vampire character. His name was Aleister Crowley, and he was helping the protagonist.

Just out of curiosity, is he meant to be the Aleister Crowley having been turned into a vampire, or just a vampire who took the name?

(I used to write for the Vampire: the Masquerade role-playing game, so I'm always a little leery of "historical character turned into vampire" characters, but that doesn't mean they can't be done well by the right people.)

Mouseferatu · Jun 3, 2010

deathwizard said:
But high fantasy is really tough right now. Really tough.

Tough, but not impossible. I signed a two-book high fantasy deal with Spectra back in late 2008/early2009--the first book came out a few months ago, and the second is due out in January--and I've more recently sold two other high fantasy books to Pyr Books, coming out in 2011 and 2012.

Now, I can't speak to how well the book that just came out is doing--I honestly don't know--so I'm not saying roostercharmer should count his chickens before they hatch*, nor am I saying it'll be anything remotely close to easy. But I'd definitely side with the people saying "write what you're enthused to write," at least initially. You can always branch out later, when you have more ideas or it's "out of your system."

*(See what I did there?

)

shaldna · Jun 3, 2010

Fantasy and Urban fantasy are two different things.

Traditional fantasy is still popular. so i wouldn't worry about it.

MGraybosch · Jun 3, 2010

Mouseferatu said:
Just out of curiosity, is he meant to be the Aleister Crowley having been turned into a vampire, or just a vampire who took the name?

It was the Aleister Crowley. The ritual he used to become immortal, the Chemical Wedding, didn't work out the way he had expected. I got rid of him because vampires didn't fit the direction in which I was taking the story.

Is writing traditional fantasy wise?

Brony level >9000

Expert Procrastinator

A Gentleman of a refined age...

Purveyor of Prose

Always learning

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

Lunch Break Novelist

Lunch Break Novelist

A Gentleman of a refined age...

Expert Procrastinator

Lunch Break Novelist

Lunch Break Novelist

Tumhe na koci puujetha

Rodent of the Dark

Rodent of the Dark

The cake is a lie. But still cake.

Lunch Break Novelist