Near Death Experiences

Katie,

I was diagnosed as a child as a border line epileptic. When ever I suffered an injury I would pass out and go into convulsions. I remember I once explained to a doctor that when I passed out, I could see and hear everything going on around me. It got to the point that if I was by myself, I would look at myself laying somewhere and yell for me to breath.

The doctor said that while he could not explain the experiences, he said it sounded like I was Astral planing. According to what I have read on this, your essence, (if you believe in this stuff), can leave your body and travel. And yes, I used to see the light at the end of the tunnel, but I think I always knew not to go there... lol. I never heard anyone calling to me, nor did I ever see loved ones who passed away. Only what was going on around me, and anything they were saying.

I have used part of what I learned from these experiences to manipulate my dreams. I also use this in my writings, because it is real...

So yes, I believe this is possible and I think it has more to do with the subconscious portions of our brain than not...

Out of body and near death experiences are related, and many books have been written about them. For the first, I'd suggest Robert Monroe, and for the second, Raymond Moody. Robert Monroe created a research center near Faber, Va. to investigate out of body experiences, and where they conduct week long retreats. I've been there several times, and highly recommend it.

Unfortunately, none of the supposedly impossible things that happen during near death experiences are ever present in a controlled test. And anecdotal stories aren't exactly proof that anything did happen, at all. So far, there is no reason to believe that there's anything to near-death experiences than a mix of the subconsciousness acting up, and embellishment of the stories in re-telling.

I've just finished Thomas Metzingers "the Ego tunnel." It focuses quite heavily on out of body/near death experiences.

He sums up what the available science has to say on the matter. This is a very recent book in a field that is exploding with science right now. As he puts it, just ten years ago, the "near death experiences" field was dominated by new age flakes and various religious types. Today it is a completely different situation and is a respectable field of academic study. What this means is that we have better scientific data than ever before on the subject. Which for us science buffs is only a good thing.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0465045677/?tag=absolutewritedm-20

I recommend it for anybody who wants to know what science can and can't say on the matter. It's not an overly technical read either. I liked it.

Those of us who have experienced it have no doubt that there is an afterlife. Can we prove it? No, but most of us don't care if someone else doesn't believe it. In my case I was suddenly somewhere else that I can only describe as some other dimension that I call the Gates of Heaven. I did not see my body until I was back inside it and looking out through my own eyes.

In 1992 I had most of my thyroid surgically removed. I spent a week in the hospital and then was able to go home. The pain from the surgery was excruciating. I tolerate pain very well usually but I can tell you it was remarkably bad.

My first night home, I woke up to find I wasn't in pain. When I opened my eyes, I found that I wasn't actually in bed but looking down on myself and my husband as we slept. I could see I wasn't breathing. I knew I had to make a decision. I didn't see any white lights or people I loved, but I was incredibly peaceful and everything seemed to be like crystal clear. I mean, my vision which requires corrective lenses was 20/20. Life around me was vibrant. I didn't want to die so I made a choice. I knew I was back in my body when the pain returned and after not having any, it seemed even worse.

But I figured I was glad to be back.

I think because I've almost lost each of my three children due to childhood illnesses and that experience, I really cling to life. I love life...even when it sucks. Sometimes I feel like giving up but then I remember those experiences and I straighten right up and stop feeling sorry for myself.

Our world is so incredibly beautiful. I don't want to miss one moment of it.

When my youngest daughter was only 6 months old (some 24 years ago), I suffered a ruptured ectopic pregnancy. At the time, I was visiting my parents' very rural home and it took almost 30 minutes to reach the hospital. During the trip, I was in and out of consciousness as I slowly bled to death. When I reached the hospital, my blood pressure was so low that the doctors had to use a pump in order to give me a transfusion. Technically, I died, but in reality, I didn't. I mean that when the doctors thought I was dead, I was in the room with them, staring quizzically at what I knew to be my body. It was a very clinical experience in that I didn't feel frightened, confused, or even concerned that the body had died. I remember looking at my blue lips and fingernails, seeing my body grown the color of copy-paper, and thinking, "So, this is what happens when you die?" I never saw the light others describe nor did I see great-grandma coming to fetch me. What I do know is that a part of us must live on if we believe in the laws of physics. Energy can not be destroyed. We are creatures infused with electrical energy. That energy can change, but it can't die. In other words, ignoring my religious beliefs all together (and they have considerable weight), science tells us that a part of us lives on, no matter what we call that "part". Be it soul, spirit, life force, essence, or whatever, we continue. Whether that continuance is eternal or not is the great mystery known only to those who remain on the other side of here.

IMHO to hear a doctor talking about needing a different tool you would not need to be out of your body at all, anaesthesia is a funny thing and many people have had some level of consciousness during an operation,

kaitiepaige17 said:

^ but how if their brain has no function? Your brain controls your senses, so if it's not functional, science says your hearing wouldn't be either...

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Having had a near death experience, I can assure you that I was not "inside" my body. I was outside, looking from above, straight down into my face. I can't remember hearing what people were saying, but I do remember the first thump made by the nurse who started CPR. I was so fascinated with my body's appearance in death that I can't remember much else that was going on in the emergency room other than a blur of movement. What I do remember is the excruciating pain that immediately followed my return to my body. A man was praying near my right ear, (last rites, I think). When he finished, I remember telling him that they had to knock me out or let me die because I couldn't take the pain anymore.

Appalachian Writer said:

Having had a near death experience, I can assure you that I was not "inside" my body. I was outside, looking from above, straight down into my face. I can't remember hearing what people were saying, but I do remember the first thump made by the nurse who started CPR. I was so fascinated with my body's appearance in death that I can't remember much else that was going on in the emergency room other than a blur of movement. What I do remember is the excruciating pain that immediately followed my return to my body. A man was praying near my right ear, (last rites, I think). When he finished, I remember telling him that they had to knock me out or let me die because I couldn't take the pain anymore.

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Yeah, that. It was shocking how bad it felt compared to before I'd left my body.

In my case, I was never in a hospital or on drugs.

The first time it happened I was out on a soccer field and twisted my ankle so bad I passed out. I was perhaps 7 or 8. I watched from above as the coach rushed to me and stuck a pencil in my mouth so I would not bite my tongue. That was my first Out of Body experience and it scared the shit out of me.

Another time, I took a line drive hard ball to the stomach. I couldn't breath and ran until I passed out. The guys all thought I was joking and picked me up by my hands and feet and then swung me and on three let me go. When I woke up, I knew exactly who to go after.

I once woke up in an ambulance because of an incident at work and told the EMT to turn around, I didn't want to go to the hospital. What could they do? I even knew his name because I had watched as he and his partner attended to me in the building.

I have always been one to look for scientific reasons behind things. I don't believe this is heaven calling me home or anything like that. I believe that in life, we are very aware of what is going on around us, even if visually we are not paying attention. I think our subconscious has a form of peripheral vision that we are not aware of normally.

Still, as I grew older, I learned to do things while out of body, to help myself. I always knew when it happened not to panic. It really is very peaceful and controlled sort of situation. No scary monsters or dark shadows hovering in the corners waiting to take me away.

I do believe a lot of these type of incidents get embellished from what the person really remembers. Perhaps on my deathbed, I will finally be able to travel to my fantasy world of Netherron. Now that would be cool. But of course, how could I let anyone know...

kaitiepaige17 said:

^ I've also heard by many people with these experiences that it hurt going back into their bodies. Did you guys find this too??

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Yes, even my hair hurt.

I get sleep paralysis where I can see things in the room with my eyes closed, still asleep. I thought it had to be my imagination (I did it a lot as a child, and then so often when I was sick with a disease) but my Ex was astonished every time he saw it. I'd know what time it was because I'd seen the clock. When the clock was wrong, so was I. If he put a book, etc. down while I was doing it, I could tell him what book it was, even though he knew I couldn't see it.

Unfortunately, it still was sleep paralysis, so I was always terrified that I couldn't get back in my body and wake up. I always tried to scream and couldn't for a long while.

Dunno. I don't do it any more, although I do get rare bouts of run-of-the-mill sleep paralysis. I don't get how it would work, but a lot of folks who know me would swear to it.

Julie Worth said:

Out of body and near death experiences are related, and many books have been written about them. For the first, I'd suggest Robert Monroe, and for the second, Raymond Moody. Robert Monroe created a research center near Faber, Va. to investigate out of body experiences, and where they conduct week long retreats. I've been there several times, and highly recommend it.

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If they are related, they may be related in a chemical way. The chemical brew in the brain can be altered in a moment and make you believe all sorts of things that aren't necessarily true. I had a friend believe himself to be a superhero while on an acid trip. He tied a picnic table cloth around his neck and walked off the edge of a building. He wasn't a superhero but his brain convinced him he was.

Back in those days, there was a mind bender of a drug on the market called PCP, or angel dust. As a joke, people would often slip it into bags of weed and watch the unsuspecting pot smoker go on an unexpected trip. I was one of those people who got ambushed. My trip took me out of my body. I stood by and watched myself beat the crap out of my best friend. I'm not a violent person. I loved the person I beat up until she was bloody. What I experienced was not a dream. That was the last time I smoked anything that didn't come out of a regular pack of cigarettes.

I must admit this thread has many compelling testimonials. On the other hand, I once experienced the presence of God yet I'm now an atheist.

As far as what "science says," science doesn't "prove" something can't happen, but there seems to be a lack of independently verified evidence of the phenomena described. There's also not any good hypothesis that would describe how such events could happen, but that wouldn't prevent a repeatable demonstration of some phenomenon.

Susan Blackmore has written several books on these topics. "Dying to Live: Near-Death Experiences" apparently discusses, among other things, the Moody Institute:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0879758708/?tag=absolutewritedm-20
Also, "Beyond the Body: An Investigation of Out-Of-The-Body Experiences"
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0897333446/?tag=absolutewritedm-20
I haven't read either, but I read hear first book "The Adventures of a Parapsychologist" republished as "In Search of The Light"
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1573920614/?tag=absolutewritedm-20
in which I recall her mentioning having out-of-body experiences, among many other "new-agey" things. She investigated many things with an open mind, but not so open that she ignored errors in scientific investigations. She very much wanted to know what was happening with these mysterious events, and spent her career investigating them.

Despite searching for hard evidence yet never finding it, she did not give up on the idea of the existence of metaphysical or parapsychological phenomena for several decades.
http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/Chapters/Kurtz.htm

Lack of scientific evidence to the contrary is not really a good enough reason to believe it is supernatural. That kind of thinking is what made people believe that illnesses were caused by demon posession.

Also, I'm pretty sure you can't come back from 0% brain function.

benbradley said:

I must admit this thread has many compelling testimonials. On the other hand, I once experienced the presence of God yet I'm now an atheist.

As far as what "science says," science doesn't "prove" something can't happen, but there seems to be a lack of independently verified evidence of the phenomena described. There's also not any good hypothesis that would describe how such events could happen, but that wouldn't prevent a repeatable demonstration of some phenomenon.

Susan Blackmore has written several books on these topics. "Dying to Live: Near-Death Experiences" apparently discusses, among other things, the Moody Institute:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0879758708/?tag=absolutewritedm-20
Also, "Beyond the Body: An Investigation of Out-Of-The-Body Experiences"
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0897333446/?tag=absolutewritedm-20
I haven't read either, but I read hear first book "The Adventures of a Parapsychologist" republished as "In Search of The Light"
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1573920614/?tag=absolutewritedm-20
in which I recall her mentioning having out-of-body experiences, among many other "new-agey" things. She investigated many things with an open mind, but not so open that she ignored errors in scientific investigations. She very much wanted to know what was happening with these mysterious events, and spent her career investigating them.

Despite searching for hard evidence yet never finding it, she did not give up on the idea of the existence of metaphysical or parapsychological phenomena for several decades.
http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/Chapters/Kurtz.htm

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But there's quite a lot about the brain we don't know, simply because we haven't studied it yet. There's no shortage of experiments left to do. As I take it, the problem lies in that the brain scanning devices are extremely expensive, and the researchers aren't sure what they're looking for. As far as I can tell the available data comes mostly from unrelated experiments, not specifically designed to research near death experiences. It's apparently easier to get funding for research on a specific disease than it is to do basic research on stuff that maybe perhaps somehow might yield useful results for something....maybe.

In the Ego Tunnel, Metzinger quoted Blackmore in one study she'd done where she'd asked people about recalling old memories, (phenomenologically). Which at the time had nothing to do with studying out of body experiences. She noticed that most people's older memories are recalled from a third person perspective. She then made the connection that this might help explain out of body experiences naturalistically.

It's very common to hear of people who have had these experiences.

I have them while sleeping sometimes. The reason, my reason, is that the body is just physical matter of a denser vibration.

I got stuck in a rip out in the ocean once. There was a period of struggle when the waves washed over me and I couldn't get my face out of the water to breathe. I fought and I was very fit then, but it meant nothing. I gave up and it was the most fantastic thing. It was like falling into the most wonderful peace, as though every part of me had disintegrated into air and I was everywhere. I remember the feeling as though I was everything everywhere. Life seemed almost a burden after that. Everything was so slow and heavy.

The blind woman who can see once she left her body can do so, because the soul is not blind. She chose to come in a body that was blind, but that's not true of the soul. If you believe in that stuff. Sometimes, the soul wears itself out, carrying around a body and you'll see little children lying in a hallway or on the floor when they tire of it too much. The soul leaves the body to connect with everything. Moving a body is heavy, whereas the soul or spirit is pure energy.

Nothing ever dies. It just changes form. jmho