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Ravenwing
05-25-2010, 04:46 AM
What are the feelings here about termination fees? Should we sign a contract which contains such a clause?

James D. Macdonald
05-25-2010, 05:13 AM
What are the other clauses in the contract? For what kind of work? How big a fee is the publisher willing to pay? There isn't any way to answer that question without asking -- and answering -- a lot of other questions first.

Momento Mori
05-25-2010, 02:12 PM
Ravenwing:
What are the feelings here about termination fees? Should we sign a contract which contains such a clause?

You should already know what people think about termination fees, given that you've discussed them ad nauseum in the Damnation Books (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155548) discussion thread (which you and your fellow socks managed to get closed), the Red Rose Publishing (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67170) discussion thread (miraculously still open, despite your best efforts), and the Eternal Press (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139420) discussion thread (also closed due to you and your fellow socks).

Shouldn't you be heading back under your bridge?

MM

Terie
05-25-2010, 02:42 PM
Ravenwing, a word of simple advice: write a new, better book, and submit it to agents or top publishers. You took chances on micro-presses, which are notoriously high-risk, and you lost. Learn from your mistakes.

And on the subject of learning from your mistakes, you might want to reconsider bringing up the same subjects over and over and over here at AW.

CACTUSWENDY
05-25-2010, 03:02 PM
:deadhorse:deadhorse:deadhorse:deadhorse:deadhorse :deadhorse:deadhorse

BenPanced
05-25-2010, 04:52 PM
:popcorn:

thothguard51
05-25-2010, 04:55 PM
A change of socks is in order...

brainstorm77
05-25-2010, 06:28 PM
And first post back after temp ban is? You guessed it, about kill fees...

Terie
05-25-2010, 06:30 PM
And first post back after temp ban is? You guessed it, about kill fees...

Actually, in point of fact, it's not about kill fees. It's about termination fees, which are completely different from kill fees.

brainstorm77
05-25-2010, 06:35 PM
Actually, in point of fact, it's not about kill fees. It's about termination fees, which are completely different from kill fees.

OK then, please inform me of the difference because to me it's the same thing, using two different terms to say it.

As for the threads that have been closed, I'd like for them to be re-opened with a zero tolerance for personal attacks etc.

Terie
05-25-2010, 06:44 PM
Kill fees are fees paid to freelancers when a publisher cancels a commissioned work. This typically occurs in magazines and newspapers, and more often in non-fiction than in fiction.

Termination fees are fees charged to a writer who wants to cancel a contract.

brainstorm77
05-25-2010, 06:46 PM
Kill fees are fees paid to freelancers when a publisher cancels a commissioned work. This typically occurs in magazines and newspapers, and more often in non-fiction than in fiction.

Termination fees are fees charged to a writer who wants to cancel a contract.

I understand what you're saying. Are the definitions of these terms specifically listed somewhere? I also note that Piers Anthony uses the term Kill Fee on his site in regards to e book pubs.
TBH before these threads, I didn't even know such existed. I never had a reason to even think about them. I just assumed if you wanted out, you asked and they either let you or not. I didn't know fees were involved. You learn something daily :)

Bubastes
05-25-2010, 06:46 PM
Kill fees are fees paid to freelancers when a publisher cancels a commissioned work. This typically occurs in magazines and newspapers, and more often in non-fiction than in fiction.

Termination fees are fees charged to a writer who wants to cancel a contract.

Exactly.

ETA: I learned the definition of "kill fee" from Writer's Market when I started subbing to magazines.

thehairymob
05-25-2010, 07:13 PM
:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Jamesaritchie
05-25-2010, 09:53 PM
Kill fees are fees paid to freelancers when a publisher cancels a commissioned work. This typically occurs in magazines and newspapers, and more often in non-fiction than in fiction.

Termination fees are fees charged to a writer who wants to cancel a contract.

Yep, kill fees are very good things, and guarantee a freelance writer a certain amount of money, most often from 25-50%, should the magazine be unable to publish a piece he contracted to write.

Kill fees have made my life much easier at times. Like most freelancers, I simply couldn't afford to write nonfiction without the knowledge that the article would result in some money.

James D. Macdonald
05-26-2010, 01:49 PM
Part of the confusion is that, while the OP talks about "termination fees," he titled the thread "Kill fees."

Termination fees:

Author wants to break contract; asks publisher to cancel same.

The publisher can respond with:

1) Okay, sport! Here you go; no hard feelings.

2) No way, Jose. We're printing this puppy. See ya!

3) Okay, but it'll cost you a million-billion dollars. We take cash, checks, and money orders.

Which of those they use may depend on the state of their liver.

For cases 1 and 2 above, the author can say a) "Thanks!" or b) "Okay."

For case 3, the author has the choice of saying:

a) "On second thought, print it."

b) "Here's your check. No hard feelings."


Note: "Waaaaa!" is always a choice, but isn't likely to get you very far, or engender much sympathy.

Ken
05-26-2010, 05:11 PM
... have heard of record labels charging musicians hefty termination fees for canceling contracts. This is the first I've heard of publishers doing so. Not too surprising I suppose. With kill fees I once got one from a magazine. They paid me 33% of what they would've if they'd pub'd the piece.

BardSkye
05-27-2010, 04:05 AM
Is a fee paid for a work-for-hire also called a "kill fee," (meaning the author has no further rights once he's turned it in)?

Just curious.

Terie
05-27-2010, 10:30 AM
Is a fee paid for a work-for-hire also called a "kill fee," (meaning the author has no further rights once he's turned it in)?

Just curious.

No. 'Kill fee' specifically refers to the fee the writer is paid if the publisher kills a contracted project.