"You should write more realistic stuff"

maxmordon · May 22, 2010

This is something my father said once to me and I bet more than one of you have gotten as an aswer after telling you what you write. No doubt there's a stigma of sort (that is thankfully fading away but still quite present) than fantasy and science fiction are, well, more juvenile than "serious" literature.

How do you deal with that? Have you ever gotten a commentary of this type?

I, personally, love what I write. It ain't Shakespeare but I feel it helps me in some way and some people which I have shown it seem to like it and think that has a nice prospective, which is always a plus.

slcboston · May 22, 2010

Heck, I got this from someone when I told them I wrote fiction, period. Didn't matter what kind. I was told I should instead write articles or essays or something respectable and that mattered.

Okay, that last bit wasn't actually said but it was implied.

My response to this was what it always was, a patronizing look that essentially says, if you can even *ask* that question, you clearly don't get it and there isn't any explanation I can come up with that's going to make sense to you.

And then, because they were an academic in a soft science, I asked them why they didn't teach something useful that actually made a difference.

hillaryjacques · May 22, 2010

They can all suck it.

Any work that satisfies you is worth your time.

Anything that captivates another and takes them to a new place, new experiences and evokes feelings is worth their time to read.

A world in which the only pieces of available writing are articles/essays about existing things and important people and events sounds like an outer ring of Hell.

Fantasy doesn't imply that the content isn't important. You can tell a moral tale or comment on societal wrongs in a real place or one you've invented. The quality of the writing and the complexity of the characters are what's important. It doesn't matter what genre they might fit into.

maxmordon · May 22, 2010

hillaryjacques said:
They can all suck it.

Any work that satisfies you is worth your time.

Anything that captivates another and takes them to a new place, new experiences and evokes feelings is worth their time to read.

A world in which the only pieces of available writing are articles/essays about existing things and important people and events sounds like an outer ring of Hell.

Fantasy doesn't imply that the content isn't important. You can tell a moral tale or comment on societal wrongs in a real place or one you've invented. The quality of the writing and the complexity of the characters are what's important. It doesn't matter what genre they might fit into.

I simply must say, Amen!

FOTSGreg · May 22, 2010

My response to this was what it always was, a patronizing look that essentially says, if you can even *ask* that question, you clearly don't get it and there isn't any explanation I can come up with that's going to make sense to you.

ROTFL!

Good response. It reminds me of what I wanted to say to some bozo contractor the other night in Walmart who wanted to get into a protracted debate on how I felt and what I believed about Jesus when I told him I was a writer (why do some people feel the need to prosletyze about religion when you tell 'em you write?).

Instead, I just looked him and told him I was raised such-and-such and was a non-practicing such-and-such and firmly believed that science did not detract from religion, it adds to it.

Mouseferatu · May 22, 2010

When I was in college (what feels like twenty-million years ago), one of my creative writing professors would constantly go on about how genre fiction of any sort was a waste of time and a "lesser" form of writing, and how we should all be writing "literary" fiction instead. It was really irritating, especially since he was otherwise a fun guy and a decent teacher.

My response was to tell him that I would give him a special acknowledgment when I got my first novel published "for being honest, and for being wrong."

Which I did.

Mouseferatu · May 22, 2010

I should also point out that the creative writing instructor I had the semester before that guy wasn't nearly as fun, and wasn't as good a teacher--but was a lot more supportive. That class's final assignment was a short story, and mine was pretty traditional fantasy. He wrote in his comments that the story showed a great deal of imagination, and that I would hear, in the future, from people who felt that I shouldn't be writing fantasy, and that I should ignore them because they were "divorced" from the imagination that should go into writing. (I sometimes wonder if he was thinking of the specific professor I got the next semester.)

I really need to give him an acknowledgment, too, one of these days--except I can't remember his name.

maxmordon · May 22, 2010

Mouseferatu said:
When I was in college (what feels like twenty-million years ago), one of my creative writing professors would constantly go on about how genre fiction of any sort was a waste of time and a "lesser" form of writing, and how we should all be writing "literary" fiction instead. It was really irritating, especially since he was otherwise a fun guy and a decent teacher.

My response was to tell him that I would give him a special acknowledgment when I got my first novel published "for being honest, and for being wrong."

Which I did.

Lol, Harlan Ellison was told by a college professor that his work was "unpublishable", Harlan was kind enough to send said professor a signed copy of everything he published during his lifetime.

eyeblink · May 22, 2010

I've always written both SF/fantasy/horror/slipstream/whathaveyou and contemporary/realist stuff. I'll take publication where I can get it.

bettielee · May 22, 2010

I tell them that if I did that I might be found respectable, and the last thing I want gunking up my eccentric reputation is respectability.

bettielee · May 22, 2010

hillaryjacques said:
They can all suck it.

oh - and this!

efreysson · May 22, 2010

slcboston said:
Heck, I got this from someone when I told them I wrote fiction, period. Didn't matter what kind. I was told I should instead write articles or essays or something respectable and that mattered.

Okay, whoever disparaged all fiction is clearly stuck so far up their own ass they're in danger of choking on their own scalp.

hillaryjacques said:
Any work that satisfies you is worth your time.

Well said!

Shadow_Ferret · May 22, 2010

Mouseferatu said:
When I was in college (what feels like twenty-million years ago), one of my creative writing professors would constantly go on about how genre fiction of any sort was a waste of time and a "lesser" form of writing, and how we should all be writing "literary" fiction instead.

I think we had the same professor. Funny thing is, this guy also wrote a novel.

A thriller.

DeleyanLee · May 22, 2010

For the last decade, my response has been: "Really? Then please explain to me how The Lord of the Rings--the novel that's defined Genre Fantasy for the last fifty years--could possibly be declared the best book written in English in the 20th Century by numerous literary agencies?"

Then smile sweetly.

S.J. · May 22, 2010

Mouseferatu said:
My response was to tell him that I would give him a special acknowledgment when I got my first novel published "for being honest, and for being wrong."

Which I did.

maxmordon said:
Lol, Harlan Ellison was told by a college professor that his work was "unpublishable", Harlan was kind enough to send said professor a signed copy of everything he published during his lifetime.

Those two stories are awesome and fill me with happiness.

Zoombie · May 22, 2010

But its all perfectly realistic.

Chasing the Horizon · May 22, 2010

maxmordon said:
How do you deal with that? Have you ever gotten a commentary of this type?

It's happened to me a couple of times. I told the speaker to go fuck themselves.

Hey, you asked, and it's the truth. I've never claimed to be a nice person.

Ruv Draba · May 22, 2010

Some people learn mainly by practical experience. Their imaginations are typically limited to recreating things they've done or seen done, and using familiar tasks and processes. Such people are often extremely good with physical tasks -- sport, mechanics, cooking and crafts, because their minds notice enormous amounts of the physical world.

Some people learn more by abstraction. They'll watch an ant's mouth and intuit pliers, or look at a family of ducks and intuit a single organism rather than just the individuals.

Sensates will see a child's ball and think about how to kick it, decorate it or where to put it, while intuitives will see a ball and think about how to live in it or how it must be feeling without anyone to play with. In its imagination, each kind of mind rehearses the ideas and tasks it likes most and is most good at. But also for this reason, some genres appeal more to one type of mind than another.

The 'stigma' associated with science fiction and fantasy is unlikely to go away, because strong intuitives are a minority in the population -- less intuitive readers will never want to read stuff that's too imaginative. But most sensates will at least acknowledge that SFF can't be too dumb when we point out how many all-time bestselling books and highest grossing movies are SFF. Fantasy is after all, the world's oldest surviving fictional form.

NoGuessing · May 22, 2010

I ask "what is your reality?"

Cue description of 9-5 job, married with three kids and a pretty housemaid who "cleans up."

I then tell them I find their reality boring and I would commit suicide if it were mine.

They kinda don't like me very much.

maxmordon · May 22, 2010

That is awfully interesting, Ruv! I have been thinking about it ever since a friend of mine who studies psychology commented me about the whole right hemisphere/left hemisphere of the brain differences a while ago.

DeleyanLee said:
For the last decade, my response has been: "Really? Then please explain to me how The Lord of the Rings--the novel that's defined Genre Fantasy for the last fifty years--could possibly be declared the best book written in English in the 20th Century by numerous literary agencies?"

Then smile sweetly.

Hahaha, excellent answer!

Shadow_Ferret · May 22, 2010

As far as this: "You should write more realistic stuff" I don't know any Speculative Fiction writer who doesn't try for realism. Sure, we have elements of fantasy or Sci-Fi in our works, but that doesn't mean we don't bust our asses trying to make the characters realistic, trying to make the situations realistic.

maxmordon · May 22, 2010

Shadow_Ferret said:
As far as this: "You should write more realistic stuff" I don't know any Speculative Fiction writer who doesn't try for realism. Sure, we have elements of fantasy or Sci-Fi in our works, but that doesn't mean we don't bust our asses trying to make the characters realistic, trying to make the situations realistic.

That reminds me a short story by Neil Gaiman called Forbidden Brides of the Faceless Slaves in the Secret House of the Night of Dread Desire where the writer of a fantasy world tries to create a realistic story without not much of success... then he tries to write fantasy (with toasters, VCRs, accountants and electricians) and discovers he feels far more comfortable with it.

But yeah, there's drama weather Bill griefs for his late wife Alice or Balthazar mourns his pet dragon Aloyssia.

Mishell · May 22, 2010

My answer: "I write what I like to read." /shrug

But I still minutely examine my toes while saying it. I hate that about myself. Maybe making millions of dollars and/or winning awards would cure that.

Ruv Draba · May 22, 2010

maxmordon said:
That is awfully interesting, Ruv! I have been thinking about it ever since a friend of mine who studies psychology commented me about the whole right hemisphere/left hemisphere of the brain differences a while ago.

Its more than a hemispheric difference, Max. It's to do with how we take in information and learn. There are emotional sensates (they're great providers and protectors, composers and performers) and thinky sensates (they're great supervisors and inspectors, crafters and promoters). Then there are emotional intuitives (champions and healers; counsellors and teachers), and more thinky intuitives (architects, inventors, masterminds and generals).

Every kind of mind has its way of expressing itself in literature, but only a few kinds of minds (most notably the healers, counsellors, architects and masterminds) tend to really love writing Fantasy and SF. That's perhaps why we see the same questions being asked time and again in these genres. Questions like:

How can we fix our past mistakes? (a 'healer' question that often appears in Fantasy)
How can we be better people? (a 'counsellor' question that often turns up in Fantasy and SF)
Just how far could we push this? (a 'mastermind' question that often occurs in SF)
What is it we might not realise? (an 'architect' question that often arises in Fantasy and SF)

But a lot of people never ask these questions and don't much care about the answers. Such people generally don't bother reading FSF.

SPMiller · May 22, 2010

Just ignore.

"You should write more realistic stuff"

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