PDA

View Full Version : Political Correctness



Don West
05-14-2010, 11:51 PM
Can PC be taken too far? AW is criticized on other boards for being over the top with this. Is the criticism justified? Of course, if you say AW is too PC, the thread is likely to be locked and you will be banned. :D


"With all its shortcomings this is still a helluva lot better than AW, where you can't have a normal adult conversation. That place is so ridiculously PC, it sucks big time. It's like Father Knows Best stuck in a time warp. You know, everyone theatrically sweet and honey tongued. Yuck."

redacted url

Anaquana
05-14-2010, 11:55 PM
Too PC? Seriously?

I'm as un-politically correct as can be and even I sometimes cringe a bit at some of the conversations here.

Edited to add: Beware! My anti-virus blocked a threat from that link.

Jamesaritchie
05-15-2010, 12:04 AM
I suspect some people mistake good taste and common courtesy for political correctness.

Mr Flibble
05-15-2010, 12:09 AM
They obviously haven't read the posts I make when I'm having my little moments...

Actually most of my posts....


And they've definitely never been in PC&E!

PC - no. Allows personal attacks, trolling or flaming - no. There's plenty of room in between.

Maybe it was a person who got banned for.....um, let's see. How shall I put this in a pc way? Being a bigot? Oh wait, that's not right. Um...oh....being a PITA? Oh, no I probably can't say that...:D

I suspect someone got a slap on the wrist for thinking they can say what they like no matter how offensive it is to the people they're talking to.

That's not being PC - that's manners.

veinglory
05-15-2010, 12:12 AM
I would be more worried about what the bulk of AW members think than some single person on some other forum. I am biassed but I think if the PC was killing the place it would be so crowded in here. Whereas I stopped going to several forums where foul-mouthed attacks were considered 'free speech'.

Toothpaste
05-15-2010, 12:22 AM
Have you read the threads at Writers.net? They are almost all train wrecks with the veterans almost always piling up on some newbie. There is no moderation, and people say some of the most vitriolic stuff. I will say that once in a while some good advice is given there, but it gets quickly buried beneath other posters who just seem to revel in putting others down. There are especially one or two members who overpower most every thread to make sure they are heard. It is a pity because the site began as quite a lovely community, and there are some posters there who sincerely want to help others.

Basically what that poster is referring to is the fact that here people want reasoned debate and no personal attacks. AW does not put up with nasty attitudes that bring down the level of conversation. I've seen many a thread get heated here, and I've never seen anyone banned for their ideas, merely if they attack fellow members and don't show respect.

This person is using that whole freedom of speech taken to the extreme idea, that if one isn't allowed to be a total jerk then their freedoms are being curtailed.

This is also the kind of person who thinks political correctness means not being allowed to be your true self, when the idea is merely thinking before you say something and taking the feelings of others into consideration. Yes, like with anything, political correctness can go to far, but it isn't in and of itself a bad thing. God forbid we should think before we speak. The horror, the horror.

Medievalist
05-15-2010, 12:25 AM
Don

Bringing up stupidity from another board?

Don't do it here. Not cool. Seriously, not cool.

MacAllister
05-15-2010, 12:29 AM
I'm going to unlock this - but I've redacted the link. I see no reason for AW folk to go piling over to another board just because someone showed up to talk smack.

Don West, this is ridiculous shit-stirring. This is your only warning not to pull that kind of crap, here.

Medievalist
05-15-2010, 12:38 AM
This is also the kind of person who thinks political correctness means not being allowed to be your true self, when the idea is merely thinking before you say something and taking the feelings of others into consideration.

I realize that, along with my other linguistic hobby-horses, like compose and comprise, and sex vs gender, I'm shouting in an empty room when I note that "political correctness" with respect to language does not mean what people think it means.

It means using language deliberately to hide the truth.

It means calling me "altitudinally challenged" when the truth is I'm short.

It means describing units of deadly radiation as "sunshine units"

It means calling massive layoffs a "reduction in work force."

It's linguistic abuse, and often, it's lying.

It is not "being PC" to say "no you can't call people [insert pejorative / bigoted epithet of your choice].

I note, that even my beloved American Heritage Dictionary has succumbed to evil re: definitions for political correctness, gender, and compose vs. comprise.

I am in mourning.

Toothpaste
05-15-2010, 12:44 AM
I'd argue not quite. It isn't meant to hide the truth, it is meant to "denote language, ideas, policies, and behavior seen as seeking to minimize social and institutional offense in occupational, gender, racial, cultural, sexual orientation, disability, and age-related contexts."

So yes, it has been taken to the extremes you have mentioned, but it is also responsible for us calling things what they are, getting rid of the old European titles given to other races etc. So it's also calling an Inuit that and not Eskimo, it's also calling someone African American and not Negro.

Now I realise your point is in reference to the fact that that person at Writers.net accusing AW of being PC doesn't know what he/she is talking about, that they are using totally the wrong definition for it. But my point is that PC doesn't automatically mean covering up either. It just means trying to be as inoffensive as possible. And yes, this has been taken to ridiculous extremes, but the foundation of the idea is a positive one and not one based in deception.

Monkey
05-15-2010, 12:46 AM
Spend some time in P&CE and then ask that again. ;)

Seriously. We have strong differences of opinion here, and we get into it now and then. But we can voice any opinion we want, be as un-PC as we please, so long as we can do that without making personal attacks and while Respecting Our Fellow Writers.

That respect means that we all have a nice, enjoyable place to gather, and that the fiercest, most ideologically opposed opponents on one thread can agree and laugh together on another.

It's one of the best things about AW, in my opinion.

The mods do, however, have rather highly-functioning bullshit monitors. They will stop things, even if there's no specific rule against them, if they see them as having no point other than stirring the pot. They don't whisk posts away, never to be seen again, and they don't revoke anyone's posting privileges without warning. Everything stays up, everything stays public...but there's a low bullshit thresh hold, and no room for disrespect.

Medievalist
05-15-2010, 12:54 AM
I'd argue not quite. It isn't meant to hide the truth, it is meant to "denote language, ideas, policies, and behavior seen as seeking to minimize social and institutional offense in occupational, gender, racial, cultural, sexual orientation, disability, and age-related contexts."

Yeah, that's what it means NOW.

But the term historically meant the sort of thing Orwell is writing about in "Politics and the English Language."

I'm resigned to linguistic change, so that part doesn't bother me, but using the same phrase "politically correct" to describe a decision to call a native of the Arctic Peninsula an Inuit rather than an Eskimo, and a decision to call a layoff a "reduction in force" or dead con-combatant civilians as "collateral damage" annoys my delicate sensibilities.

And, just to save y'all the trouble:

:deadhorse

:e2violin:

Don West
05-15-2010, 12:59 AM
I agree that some of the posters on Writers Net, and other similar sites, can go a bit over the top at times. And the Writers Net site has more than its share of technical glitches and problems. But that sort of rough and tumble is just a replication of the real world after all. Everybody gets his say no matter how offensive it might seem to others. I'd liken Writers Net to Hyde Park Corner -- that bastion of free speech that we fought two world wars to preserve -- on the Internet.

Mr Flibble
05-15-2010, 12:59 AM
Ooooh! Medi is a language change bigot! I called it, yes, yes I did!


"denote language, ideas, policies, and behavior seen as seeking to minimize social and institutional offense in occupational, gender, racial, cultural, sexual orientation, disability, and age-related contexts."

See, I call that manners. It's PC (and laughable) when it gets to the sort of thing Medi mentions. Someone once said to my mum that she was 'differently abled'. She said 'I'm in a wheelchair not stupid'.

Oh crap. I'm a language change bigot too! *bans self*


Everybody gets his say no matter how offensive it might seem to others So being offensive just because they can makes it an attractive, supportive, fun atmosphere? I don't live in a real world like that, so why would I want it online?

O.O

veinglory
05-15-2010, 01:02 AM
On the average day in my real world I don't get called any names and no-one argues with me just to be contrary. And I work in a pretty contentious area. I doubt some one says something deliberately offensive to me more than once or twice amonth, max. And my world is as real as anyone's.

Medievalist
05-15-2010, 01:03 AM
Someone once said to my mum that she was 'differently abled'. She said 'I'm in a wheelchair not stupid'.

Oh crap. I'm a language change bigot too! *bans self*

:D

I get pissed off at being described as "learning disabled" (the hell I am!)

I value language change, but natural language change tends to enhance communication rather than obscure meaning. Deliberately modifying language use in order to obscure meaning (which is what happened to the phrase "politically correct" itself) offends me.

Gravity
05-15-2010, 01:05 AM
Two or three times over the last couple years I tried to get into the flow over at that other site; I really did. But what Toothpaste said is dead-bang accurate: at the end of the day it's the most sad-sack, cluster-farked, goat-grab EVAH.

About three or four grizzled vets hold sway, and with no moderation, woe betide the newbie. It's like Bartertown run by the STASI, without Mel Gibson to ride to the rescue. "Train wreck" is too kind; "abandon hope all ye who enter here" is closer to the truth of it.

Nope, I like AW just fine.

blacbird
05-15-2010, 01:07 AM
The problem with AW is that we have too many people here, like Zoombie and Kuwisdelu, who are ignorance-challenged. No matter how hard they try, they just cannot post normal stupid stuff like most of the rest of us.

caw

Monkey
05-15-2010, 01:08 AM
I agree that some of the posters on Writers Net, and other similar sites, can go a bit over the top at times. And the Writers Net site has more than its share of technical glitches and problems. But that sort of rough and tumble is just a replication of the real world after all. Everybody gets his say no matter how offensive it might seem to others. I'd liken Writers Net to Hyde Park Corner -- that bastion of free speech that we fought two world wars to preserve -- on the Internet.

I think this post is ridiculous; it pretends that because we limit the rudeness with which someone can give their opinions, we limit their ability to give their opinions. Absolutely not the same thing.

However, I'm also glad to see a new member on AW, and I don't think I've welcomed you yet, so Welcome to the Cooler. :)

See...I attacked your post, not you, and I gave reasons. And now we've both voiced our opinion, and have grounds for debate, and yet we haven't attacked each other, and can still get along nicely.

Rather than stopping discussion or debate, which is what censorship is all about, AW's policies facilitate it.

MacAllister
05-15-2010, 01:09 AM
Not every board suits every person. If Don West doesn't care for moderated conversations, there are plenty of places on the internet where he can post anything he wants.

Just not here.

I fundamentally believe that good moderation makes civilized, intelligent conversation and debate possible -- otherwise the only people who get heard are the ones who shout loudest, behave most rudely, and otherwise outlast rational and intelligent people who have better things to do.

(And lets try not to get sucked into talking smack about other boards, here, 'kay?)

Phaeal
05-15-2010, 01:10 AM
I agree that some of the posters on Writers Net, and other similar sites, can go a bit over the top at times. And the Writers Net site has more than its share of technical glitches and problems. But that sort of rough and tumble is just a replication of the real world after all. Everybody gets his say no matter how offensive it might seem to others. I'd liken Writers Net to Hyde Park Corner -- that bastion of free speech that we fought two world wars to preserve -- on the Internet.

Well, if you love Writers.net so much, and it's so much preferable to AW, what are you doing here? Did you fall into a black hole that sucked you down to this singularity of political correctness, and alas, now you can never escape?

A first thread about what's wrong with the site on which it's posted. Smells like troll shit to me.*


*OMG, did I just offend all the trolls out there? Not to mention the naughty word. Bad me.

Medievalist
05-15-2010, 01:10 AM
Everybody gets his say no matter how offensive it might seem to others. I'd liken [site redacted] to Hyde Park Corner -- that bastion of free speech that we fought two world wars to preserve -- on the Internet.

Don, how long have you been online?

Because that's nothing like rough-and-tumble. There's this little thing called UseNet, that if you can wade through the pr0n, is rough-and-tumble.

And if I wanted that, I'd still be on UseNet, and still running a UseNet server.

I think you need to get out more, dude.

Medievalist
05-15-2010, 01:12 AM
Ooooh! Medi is a language change bigot! I called it, yes, yes I did!

I want to formally complain.

Buster!

IdiotsRUs called me a name! !!! !!

Mr Flibble
05-15-2010, 01:16 AM
IdiotsRUs called me a name! !!! !!

But I did it in a cute, PC way, right? No? Oops? *hangs head in shame and goes to the naughty corner* the one with the bar :D



I think this post is ridiculous; it pretends that because we limit the rudeness with which someone can give their opinions, we limit their ability to give their opinions. Absolutely not the same thing.

This is bang on the money.

Cranky
05-15-2010, 01:18 AM
I've never understood why or how being polite and well-mannered seems to have fallen out of fashion. There's being blunt, and there's being rude. Or sexist, or bigoted, etc.

There's also being disingenous, and then there's being polite. I'm not sure how the two are that hard to differentiate, but apparently they are for some.

luvreading
05-15-2010, 01:20 AM
Sometimes I feel pretty appalled by what goes on at Writers.net Their Published Writer's Forum today has deteriorated to school yard name calling, "she's a fatty" etc. and all sorts of vulgar comments about an unpopular publisher. This weakens the case for authors who have a legitimate complaint. There's no one looking after WN, and it's been plagued by viruses for ages. So those who enter, beware.

Medievalist
05-15-2010, 01:31 AM
I've never understood why or how being polite and well-mannered seems to have fallen out of fashion. There's being blunt, and there's being rude. Or sexist, or bigoted, etc.

There's also being disingenous, and then there's being polite. I'm not sure how the two are that hard to differentiate, but apparently they are for some.

I'd just like to add there's also:

Cranky
Curmudgeonly
Crotchety (this is often accompanied by paranoia, and caused by space dementia; this is my excuse disabil excuse)

Cranky
05-15-2010, 01:41 AM
I'd just like to add there's also:

Cranky
Curmudgeonly
Crotchety (this is often accompanied by paranoia, and caused by space dementia; this is my excuse disabil excuse)

Quite, quite so. :D

Shadow_Ferret
05-15-2010, 01:55 AM
Everybody gets his say no matter how offensive it might seem to others.


Whereas here, everyone gets their say without being offensive, by being polite and respecting others.

If being a mature adult is PC, so be it.

Jamesaritchie
05-15-2010, 02:01 AM
I agree that some of the posters on Writers Net, and other similar sites, can go a bit over the top at times. And the Writers Net site has more than its share of technical glitches and problems. But that sort of rough and tumble is just a replication of the real world after all. Everybody gets his say no matter how offensive it might seem to others. I'd liken Writers Net to Hyde Park Corner -- that bastion of free speech that we fought two world wars to preserve -- on the Internet.

It's not a replication of the real world I live in. You get that offensive, that rude, and simply that stupid, face to face, and no one will put up with it. They'll either walk away and never speak to you again, or they'll plant a fist in your face.

I'm all for free speech, but no one with any sense ever fought for the right to yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater, or to allow some nitwit to walk around screaming obscenities in people's faces without fear of reprisal.

Free speech never has meant you could say anything you wish, anywhere you wish, and in any way you wish.

Free speech originally meant you could simply state your political opinion without fear of reprisal by the government. It never did, and never should, mean you can simply spout whatever pops into your head, without taking how you say something, and where you say it, into account.

And it boggles my mind that everyone seems to know the Constitution guarantees our right to free speech, but almost no one seems to know that it also guarantees our freedom from speech.

Jersey Chick
05-15-2010, 02:02 AM
Ugh - I got nothing.

Oh, wait - so showing common courtesy, or not being flat-out rude, is mocked by being called political correctness. Mmmmkay.

DeadlyAccurate
05-15-2010, 02:08 AM
Don, how long have you been online?

Because that's nothing like rough-and-tumble. There's this little thing called UseNet, that if you can wade through the pr0n, is rough-and-tumble.

Or 4chan. You don't get more unmoderated than that.

Shadow_Ferret
05-15-2010, 02:26 AM
It's not a replication of the real world I live in. You get that offensive, that rude, and simply that stupid, face to face, and no one will put up with it. They'll either walk away and never speak to you again, or they'll plant a fist in your face.



Yes, this is my thought, too. In real life you don't have the cloak of anonymity, which seems to give many people on the Internet the courage to be as rude, mean, and nasty as possible.

Medievalist
05-15-2010, 02:26 AM
Or 4chan. You don't get more unmoderated than that.

Oh, 4chan is modded; they're just not generally visible.

brainstorm77
05-15-2010, 02:41 AM
My opinion on this. If you don't like it here and have an issue with the rules and moderaton, then leave. It's that simple. I wouldn't stay on a site that I had such issues with.

Ruv Draba
05-15-2010, 02:58 AM
Political Correctness is a combination of mandatory euphemisms and proscribed thought. I think that the one is cowardly; the other cretinous. I've participated in forums where the ambient PC made my teeth itch; I don't see it driving the moderation here, and if I thought it were I wouldn't bother.

I see this as a forum for serious writers to exchange ideas and help one another with the respect, decency and integrity suited to professional writing careers. The moderation encourages punters to express a range of views, whether conventional, unconventional or freakish -- but stock is placed in sincerity of belief over provocative posturing and performance art, which I think is an excellent way to keep it constructive. In particular, the levels of trolling and e-peen waving are refreshingly low here and the level of genuine knowledge high; having been active in on-line communities for thirty years, I can say that I've had some of the best on-line conversations here.

I especially note that moderation policy adapts to suit the topic and audience -- which is exactly how I think communication ought to work: true courtesy is based not on observing taboos, but on considering who we're talking to, and why. While ever moderation puts who and why first, I don't think it can be accused of PC's what-and-how obsession.

Mac coming down instantly on rock-chucking at other forums by the way, exactly reflects the kind of integrity, decency and professionalism that keeps me here.

benbradley
05-15-2010, 03:03 AM
I realize that, along with my other linguistic hobby-horses, like compose and comprise, and sex vs gender, I'm shouting in an empty room when I note that "political correctness" with respect to language does not mean what people think it means.

It means using language deliberately to hide the truth.

It means calling me "altitudinally challenged" when the truth is I'm short.

It means describing units of deadly radiation as "sunshine units"

It means calling massive layoffs a "reduction in work force."

It's linguistic abuse, and often, it's lying.

It is not "being PC" to say "no you can't call people [insert pejorative / bigoted epithet of your choice].

I note, that even my beloved American Heritage Dictionary has succumbed to evil re: definitions for political correctness, gender, and compose vs. comprise.

I am in mourning.
I'm trying to figure out if this is the right place to have this conversation, or if it should be spun off into another thread (one that doesn't start with the messy agenda this one appears to have).

I noticed decades ago how the language was changing, often because words and phrases picked up "unapproved" uses and meanings, sometime unrelated to the original meaning, and sometime only subtly different from the original. Words often mean different things in different contexts, often resulting in confusion, sometimes intentionally.

Somewhere I understood or read that dictionaries are descriptive rather than prescriptive, reflecting common usage rather than "proper" usage (or CURRENT usage rather than CORRECT usage). For proper usage there are self-appointed authorities such as Stunk and White.

And yes, common/current usage often annoys the hell out of me too.

And incredibly (switching gears), Usenet still exists and I still read and participate occasionally.

Kitty27
05-15-2010, 03:12 AM
Ha!


Keep it 100 at all times,but don't start calling people out of their names and being gully because they think differently from you.

I don't consider posting with sense PC. In the South,we call it home training. Say what you have to say,without DELIBERATE baiting,and allow the other person to do the same.


It's no problem for me. I have had conversations with folks who are the total opposite of me in politics,etc. Things got a bit,ahem,strong,but it's all good. I also can ask them a question about writing in another thread and they answer with no problem. It's called being an adult.

Silver King
05-15-2010, 04:43 AM
I always get a kick out of people who complain that AW is too restrictive. They tend to be the exact same people who try to stir up trouble, then complain about the site when their efforts are thwarted. And such bitching usually comes from newer members, never from more established folks who know better.

There's really only one rule here, and that's to respect each other. That doesn't mean we can't have disagreements or heated discussions, only that we should do so without attacking one another personally.

In other words, don't be an asshole. Now if you can't help yourself because being an asshole is part of your intrinsic nature, then this isn't the place for you.

Wayne K
05-15-2010, 04:49 AM
:censored

Medievalist
05-15-2010, 05:26 AM
Somewhere I understood or read that dictionaries are descriptive rather than prescriptive, reflecting common usage rather than "proper" usage (or CURRENT usage rather than CORRECT usage). For proper usage there are self-appointed authorities such as Stunk and White.

Meh. Some dictionaries are prescriptive, some are descriptive, and some stand halfway between. The clue is whether or not the entries include in context citations of the word in use. OED is descriptive; AHD is half way (there's a usage panel who discuss usage and try to come to a recommendation, so many words have a Usage Note).

Usage manuals are a separate thing, mostly used by linguists and editors rather than writers; Strunk and White is a style guide, as is MLA, AAP, and Chicago; editors have examined the array of acceptable options (usage) and have chosen those which have their blessing.

These decisions are often very much like the question of cracking a hard boiled egg on the "big" end or the "little" end.

Shadow_Ferret
05-15-2010, 05:26 AM
In other words, don't be an asshole. Now if you can't help yourself because being an asshole is part of your intrinsic nature, then this isn't the place for you.

Maybe that needs to be put right up front when you try to register: Assholes need not apply.

Jersey Chick
05-15-2010, 05:31 AM
Trouble is, assholes don't always recognize themselves. :)

Silver King
05-15-2010, 05:38 AM
Maybe that needs to be put right up front when you try to register: Assholes need not apply.


Trouble is, assholes don't always recognize themselves. :)
Mac touches upon the issue in the Newbie Guide, but she's nicer than I am and calls them "jerks:"

It's really not complicated. Seriously. It means don't act like a jerk. You don't name-call, or bait, or sneer, or taunt, or generally be unpleasant to the people around you; at least, not if you want to stay here very long.

Shadow_Ferret
05-15-2010, 05:43 AM
Mac touches upon the issue in the Newbie Guide, but she's nicer than I am and calls them "jerks:"

Ah. I went and looked at that. She wrote it in 2007. Good thing I was grandfathered in. :D

Devil Ledbetter
05-15-2010, 05:47 AM
Trouble is, assholes don't always recognize themselves. :)I know I don't. ;)

Medievalist
05-15-2010, 05:50 AM
Maybe that needs to be put right up front when you try to register: Assholes need not apply.

When your registration is confirmed (you get the email that says click the link and you, like click it) you get a Welcome to AW PM from MacAllister that among other things says


Read the Newbies Guide (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66315)

The same Newbies Guide that's linked at the top of every blessed page.

I'd guess that less than 5% actually read until Mac or a mod tells them, forcibly, to read it.

Jersey Chick
05-15-2010, 05:51 AM
Oh, SK, surely you've met someone who you know meets all that criteria (and then some) but thinks it's not him (or her) but everyone else with the problem. I know a few of these people and they never seem to get why people just don't gravitate toward them.

"I'm not the jerk. That guy just has no sense of humor/has thin-skin/can't take a joke."

Or am I the only one who knows these a-holes?

Wayne K
05-15-2010, 05:59 AM
When your registration is confirmed (you get the email that says click the link and you, like click it) you get a Welcome to AW PM from MacAllister that among other things says


Read the Newbies Guide (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66315)


The same Newbies Guide that's linked at the top of every blessed page.

I'd guess that less than 5% actually read until Mac or a mod tells them, forcibly, to read it.
I really need to get around to that

Shadow_Ferret
05-15-2010, 06:01 AM
Or am I the only one who knows these a-holes?

*looks around as he rocks on his heels and whistles*

NeuroFizz
05-15-2010, 06:06 AM
I really have to hand it to someone like Phineus Gage. He went around saying and doing just what came to his mind in the moment, without regard to the consequences or to what other people thought of him. What an example to set for those PC wimps who tiptoe through life for fear of squashing the feelings of any microbes, human or otherwise.

Of course, Phineus only got that way after he blew a tamping iron through his frontal lobes. But he sure showed those PC bastards a thing or two.

Silver King
05-15-2010, 06:26 AM
Oh, SK, surely you've met someone who you know meets all that criteria (and then some) but thinks it's not him (or her) but everyone else with the problem...
Oh yes, I see that from time to time. It's an ongoing issue with some members, and all you can do is give people the benefit of the doubt. You want to believe the very best in others, and very rarely are our gut feelings proven wrong.

I wish I could talk more freely about mod stuff, but I will tell you this: People aren't banned from here willy-nilly unless they're spamming or trolling the boards. Otherwise you really have to try pretty hard to have your membership revoked. And even then it's not unusual for mods to step in and defend those who are on the chopping block to save them.

benbradley
05-15-2010, 07:23 AM
I really have to hand it to someone like Phineus Gage. He went around saying and doing just what came to his mind in the moment, without regard to the consequences or to what other people thought of him. What an example to set for those PC wimps who tiptoe through life for fear of squashing the feelings of any microbes, human or otherwise.

Of course, Phineus only got that way after he blew a tamping iron through his frontal lobes.
NOW I remember - he was the subject of something on PBS a few decades ago (as well as many works before and since, apparently), maybe a NOVA episode.

ETA: Here it is: http://www.learner.org/resources/series142.html?pop=yes&pid=1592#

I recall he had a supervisor job building the railroad, but even though he recovered (physically) form the accident, it didn't work out afterwards, as no one took him seriously anymore.

Too bad he didn't write (as far as I know) - he could do NaNoWriMo every month with no problem, as he no longer had an internal editor!

But he sure showed those PC bastards a thing or two.
Like what? His :censored?

gothicangel
05-15-2010, 10:26 AM
If you truely believe 'the internet is the last bastion of free speech' google: Jan Moir Controversy + Stephen Gately.

Terie
05-15-2010, 12:26 PM
Well, you know, they say you're known by the company you keep. Me, I'd rather be in AW's company, thank you very much.

Ruv Draba
05-15-2010, 01:09 PM
I noticed decades ago how the language was changing, often because words and phrases picked up "unapproved" uses and meanings, sometime unrelated to the original meaning, and sometime only subtly different from the original.Our ideas are changing, so are our values and relationships; and our language reflects that.

But communication is very political; most of our communications are meant to influence people and nudge power around. We like to promote words that elevate our social status and demote words that weaken it. Some do this consciously, but many do it unconsciously. That's a natural process, and everyone does it. When it's done individually it's just push and shove; the ideas themselves determine how the language emerges. But when it's done prescriptively by political interest, it becomes bullying and the force of compulsion often has no relationship to the quality of the thought underneath it. Political Correctness isn't the first example of orchestrated language-bullying; it's just the one we're seeing today, and everyone it seems, is weighing in.

According to Ruth Perry's A Short History of the Term 'Politically Correct' (1992, quoted here (http://www.jstor.org/pss/455878) and elsewhere) the current wave of language-bullying began with the New Left in the 1960s and 70s. But by the 1990s, conservatives were doing it too. Nowadays just about everyone wants a go: we have a PC-dictionary for the Left, one for the Right; one for government, one for opposition; one for just about every major religion, one for each ethnic group; the middle class has one, academics have one, the QLTBG has one, the private sector has one, the public sector has one, the education, arts and social sectors each have their own; everyone has weighed in on the prescription; everyone wants to bully someone about something.

Underneath all that though, something important is happening -- new thought is emerging, and new language to embody it. I have no problem at all with new language for new ideas. What I object to is making new language sacred, and old language taboo for political ends. As I mentioned earlier, I think it's a game for cowards and cretins -- and cowardice and cretinism don't make for good writing.

shaldna
05-15-2010, 02:36 PM
I don't think we are terribly pc here. But we are, for the most part, respectful of other people.

And personally I couldn't give a fart in the wind what's written about us on other boards.

Wayne K
05-15-2010, 03:02 PM
I say we go over there and :censored

brainstorm77
05-15-2010, 03:18 PM
Do you really want to go over there?

Dr.Gonzo
05-15-2010, 03:31 PM
I've been trying to get there all morning to see what the fuss is about. The internet will not let me.

It must know that me and that place would be a savage combination.

Wayne K
05-15-2010, 04:04 PM
"With all its shortcomings this is still a helluva lot better than AW, where you can't have a normal adult conversation. That place is so ridiculously PC, it sucks big time. It's like Father Knows Best stuck in a time warp. You know, everyone theatrically sweet and honey tongued. Yuck."

I didn't read the OP till now :D

This sounds like a child complaining about high standards to me. There ain't nothin PC about it

Wayne K
05-15-2010, 04:56 PM
According to reps I'm way behind in this thread, but hey, I smoke a lot of :censored

Still, I like the way AW is moderated. There are enough places in the world where people treat each other like crap.

Mara
05-25-2010, 05:38 AM
You know what's funny? The way I found Absolute Write was people on that other site complaining about AW.

Snowstorm
05-25-2010, 06:03 AM
I suspect some people mistake good taste and common courtesy for political correctness.

QFT.

scarletpeaches
05-25-2010, 06:24 AM
I think you're all a bunch of soap-dodging goat-blowers.

vnNichols
05-25-2010, 06:30 AM
Or 4chan. You don't get more unmoderated than that.

Yahoo! Answers. And, YouTube.

NoGuessing
05-25-2010, 06:34 AM
I say we go over there and :censored

Keensies!

But where are we going?

blacbird
05-25-2010, 06:38 AM
I think you're all a bunch of soap-dodging goat-blowers.

You say that like it's a bad thing. We're offended.

caw

poetinahat
05-25-2010, 06:54 AM
I say we go over there and :censored
Thank you, Jimmy Buffett!

Nivarion
05-25-2010, 09:46 AM
I also don't think we're PC here.

We have some basic ground rules, and set punishments for banning them. And this lets us know where our boundaries are.

This group isn't politically correct. I've seen some great anti PC things said here, that made me laugh because somewhere, someone was choking on their own spit from reading it.

And that sentiment is also pretty politically incorrect. And I don't care. :D

Rowan
05-27-2010, 02:03 AM
Jamesaritchie said: It's not a replication of the real world I live in. You get that offensive, that rude, and simply that stupid, face to face, and no one will put up with it. They'll either walk away and never speak to you again, or they'll plant a fist in your face.

Bolding is mine.

This... I've had some experiences on boards that I WISH were in person. Because they would've ended differently. ;) That's all I'll say on that subject because the specifics aren't pretty.

cllorentson
05-27-2010, 04:34 AM
Writers.net is absolutely worthless. I posted a question on there a few years ago and received absolutely no help at all. Nada. Zilch.

Posted the same question here, and got a myriad of helpful answers.

Maybe WritersNet posters love the fact that they can say whatever they please, in whatever manner they please, but personally, the lameness of the place far outweighs the sense of "freedom".

I always get my questions answered at AW, and I'll take that over mindless caveman mud-slinging any day, thank you very much.