Upon visiting the bookstore...

Status
Not open for further replies.

DigitalGhost

on the wire
Registered
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
19
Reaction score
1
Location
USA
(I don’t know if this is the right place for this thread, but I didn’t know where else to put it. Mods, feel free to move it if there’s somewhere else it would fit better.)

The other day I was at the bookstore.

Five seconds after entering, my thoughts went something like those of a kid in a candy store: Mmm, the smell of paper! Lookit all the pretty books… brand new… every single book had an author who managed to get it published. I bet I can do the same thing. Wow, wonder what it takes to get a whole table of your books up at the front of the store? Hmmm, where shall I go first?

After wandering past the teen fiction shelves (which I’ve all but outgrown anyways, but I always look): I am so sick of all these vampire books. Although there was a Twilight parody there that made me giggle when I glanced at it.

Decided to go haunt the science fiction and fantasy section for a while. Wow. Most of these books look like clones of each other. More vampire books, only with trashier covers than the ones in the teen section had. Okay, this one looks like high fantasy, maybe it’ll be… never mind, I’ve read that plot before. Man. Fantasy seems to be turning into a formulaic genre to rival romance. Maybe I should find a new favorite genre.

Went to the general fiction section in search of something more interesting. If I find one more historical novel entitled [Somebody’s] Daughter or [Somebody’s] Sister, I’m gonna scream. How many of these can they have? …Oh, I remember reading those books over there, you could have switched the main characters from one book to the other and it wouldn’t have made any difference to the plot. Sigh. I think I’ll pass on the literary fiction, too.

I wandered through the nonfiction and ended up hanging out in the history section, which was stocked with a seemingly never-ending supply of fascinating tomes.

**

Okay. I’m not saying that I found nothing to interest me fiction-wise, because I did find a few books that looked pretty good. And I know that you can’t always judge a book by reading its back cover and flipping through it briefly, although that usually allows me to tell at least whether it’s going to stink. But it seems like lately, whenever I’m at the bookstore or the library, I end up disappointed. No, I don’t want to read another fantasy about defeating an evil empire or questing for the Yada-Yada of Whatever. No, I don’t like that token romance subplot shoved in there. Constantly I wonder: where are all the good authors? Where are all the fresh stories?

I feel guilty about thinking about books this way. I’m supposed to devour books, breathe them in, right? And I do – the good ones. But there are never enough good ones, and as for all the ones that I think of as mediocre – what right have I? The author must have done something right, after all; they finished a whole book, and they sold it, and I have yet to do either of those things. I can harp on their prose for being awkward or dull or whatever, or on their plot for being hackneyed or pointless, but right now, I don't have the skill to outdo them. Don't I owe these authors who’ve already done what I’m trying to do more respect than that?

Are my standards for books too high? It seems nervy for me, a wannabe, to come out of a huge bookstore (a temple of literature!) and say that there are not enough good books in the world. I'z confused.
 

Stormhawk

Angry Bunny Girl
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
1,191
Reaction score
117
Location
In my head.
Website
www.requirecookie.com
I'm pretty much the same way, and it makes me feel like a bad person sometimes. -_-

I go to the SF/F section, and basically weep because all I see are vampire books, or other paranormal romances, I honestly didn't think it should be so hard to find UF that isn't PR (about the only time I can do that is when I head to a bookstore about an hour away).

Else, they're HUGE fantasy epics, rehashing the hero's journey, that all seem to meld into each other.

I mean, I usually end in YA instead, because that seems to try harder than adult fantasy. There seems to be a wider variety in the type of story available, rather than simply "hot chick on cover does badboy X creature". -_-
 

suki

Opinionated
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
4,010
Reaction score
4,825
Okay. I’m not saying that I found nothing to interest me fiction-wise, because I did find a few books that looked pretty good. And I know that you can’t always judge a book by reading its back cover and flipping through it briefly, although that usually allows me to tell at least whether it’s going to stink. But it seems like lately, whenever I’m at the bookstore or the library, I end up disappointed. No, I don’t want to read another fantasy about defeating an evil empire or questing for the Yada-Yada of Whatever. No, I don’t like that token romance subplot shoved in there. Constantly I wonder: where are all the good authors? Where are all the fresh stories?

I feel guilty about thinking about books this way. I’m supposed to devour books, breathe them in, right? And I do – the good ones. But there are never enough good ones, and as for all the ones that I think of as mediocre – what right have I? The author must have done something right, after all; they finished a whole book, and they sold it, and I have yet to do either of those things. I can harp on their prose for being awkward or dull or whatever, or on their plot for being hackneyed or pointless, but right now, I don't have the skill to outdo them. Don't I owe these authors who’ve already done what I’m trying to do more respect than that?

Are my standards for books too high? It seems nervy for me, a wannabe, to come out of a huge bookstore (a temple of literature!) and say that there are not enough good books in the world. I'z confused.

Honestly, and not to snark, but this made me laugh pretty hard. Either your store has a miniscule selection or you're not trying hard enough. So...I say go to the library instead and ask a librarian to assist you.

But I'm an adult who reads a broad section of fiction - a lot of it YA actually - and even many of the YA books are meaty and fascinating and terrific reads (and not at all the shlocky stuff you describe). No way have you "outgrown" all of them. ;)

So, either you *are* judging books by their covers or you're not really trying to find books you might like in fiction or your shopping in a store with a bad selection. And it's possible that many of the books aren't to your taste, I'm not saying it's not. but turning up your nose to the entire YA section makes me think you're intentionally ignoring a whole section of terrific books because you want to believe you've "outgrown" them.

Now, there's notthing wrong with prefering nonfiction or historical books, but this reads very much like me at your age, thinking I was so far beyond all the books available. ;)

If your store selection is unsatisfactory, get thee to a library, introduce yourself to the librarians, explain what kind of books you enjoy, and ask for recommendations.

~suki
 
Last edited:

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
18,651
Reaction score
4,103
Location
Brillig in the slithy toves...
Dude, you just managed to insult about 97% of the writers on this board in one post. I think that's probably a record. It's not the genres, it's you.
 

suki

Opinionated
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
4,010
Reaction score
4,825
Dude, you just managed to insult about 97% of the writers on this board in one post. I think that's probably a record. It's not the genres, it's you.

Yeah, that, too. ;)

~suki
 

Bubastes

bananaed
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Messages
7,394
Reaction score
2,250
Website
www.gracewen.com
Dude, you just managed to insult about 97% of the writers on this board in one post. I think that's probably a record. It's not the genres, it's you.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Either your bookstore sucks or you're not looking hard enough. Whenever I go to a bookstore or library, I'm overwhelmed by the variety of wonderful choices I have.
 

Phaeal

Whatever I did, I didn't do it.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
9,232
Reaction score
1,897
Location
Providence, RI
( Constantly I wonder: where are all the good authors? Where are all the fresh stories?

:hi: Yo! Dude! I'm over here! :hi:

Now, all you have to do is get me an agent and publisher, and you're set.

;)

PS: I have to laugh to see all the "Blankety Blank's Daughters/Wives/Sisters," too. I mean, how come all these people can only be identified by their relationships with other people? And where are all the "Blankety Blank's Sons/Husbands/Brothers?" Oh, wait, I see the point now. Silly me.
 

Shadow_Ferret

Court Jester
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 26, 2005
Messages
23,708
Reaction score
10,657
Location
In a world of my own making
Website
shadowferret.wordpress.com
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Either your bookstore sucks or you're not looking hard enough. Whenever I go to a bookstore or library, I'm overwhelmed by the variety of wonderful choices I have.

Me too and unless I go in with a list of what I want, I become so overwhelmed as to get confused (I actually forget EVERY author's name that I like) and I just go pick up the latest Sci-Fi mag and leave.
 

Soccer Mom

Crypto-fascist
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
18,604
Reaction score
8,039
Location
Under your couch
It's just plain old ennui. It isn't the books. It's you.

I'm not offended. I get that way too, actually. Go do something else for a while and then come back to reading. The books will be shiny again.
 

Miss Plum

Sockpuppet
Banned
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
1,570
Reaction score
187
DigitalGhost (Dudette), I defend you. Murphy's Law, corollary X: 95% of everything is crap. What's in bookstores right now has not been winnowed out by time. In Dickens's day, he was outproduced or outsold by Edward Bulwer-Lytton (the namesake for a bad writing contest), "Captain Marryat" Charles Lever, and authors of the "penny bloods."

Cyia et. al., your excellent works are sitting on bookshelves cheek-by-jowl with literary chaff. It's no insult to you to say so.
 

dgiharris

Disgruntled Scientist
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 24, 2006
Messages
6,735
Reaction score
1,833
Location
Limbo
I've read over a thousand SF/F books and less than 3% of what I've read involved vampires or werewolves.

Just off the top of my head, here are some SF/F books that will knock you on your ass.

1. Ender's Game -Orson Scott Card
2. 1632 - Eric Flint
3. Black Sun Rising - C.S. Friedman
4. Nightfall - Robert Silverberg and Isaac Assimov
5. Wizard's First Rule - Terry Goodkind
6. A Hymn Before Battle - John Ringo

I could easily give you a list of 100 SF/F books that will blow you away.

IMO, the SF/F genre is unique in that you can take all the qualities and attributes of man and pit them against situations that just do not occur in the real world. And so, the result is something that is unique and very special.

SF/F is so much more than just elves and vampires. Your statements just belay your ignorance.

Seriously, read any of the books in my list and you will understand just how silly your statement is.

As a SF/F reader, i'm hyper sensitive to your sort of comments because SF/F has been disregarded as 'serious' literature for the better part of the last century. Truth is, SF/F is just as legitimate as any form of literature. And it is so much more than elves, dwarves, werewolves, and aliens.

okay, end rant :rant:

Mel...
 
Last edited:

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
18,889
Reaction score
5,029
Location
We couldn't possibly do that. Who'd clear up the m
Website
francisknightbooks.co.uk
No not everything is crap. But there are a heck of a lot of vampire/paranormal romance novels. My local book shop's SFF dept has a themed display - it usually gets changed every week or two. For the last month there's been nothing but vampire novels(I get to change that Saturday when I do a signing. I may substitute other books:D), and the ten bays that were all sorts of fantasy are now divided - three + are devoted to PR.

But book shops go with what's selling and so do publishers. If people want to read that, then that's what they sell. All it means is what you like to read isn't the hot fashion of the moment. I suspect PR readers feel the same when there's a glut of High Fantasy, or Romance readers bemoan the dearth of Historicals when what they want is more Bridget Jones.

If you look hard enough, you'll find plenty of non vampire stuff( or insert pet hate here) there, and plenty that isn't 'ooh look, a quest!' Good books abound.

When what you like to read isn't the hot trend, you just have to look harder is all.
 

thothguard51

A Gentleman of a refined age...
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
9,316
Reaction score
1,064
Age
72
Location
Out side the beltway...
Readers habits do change. Even readers who are writers. Over the years, I have been through the detective, fantasy, science fiction, western, spy, horror, mystery, and general fiction stages -- numerous times. Leave a genre for a while, come back in five to ten years and its all new again. Repeat as neccessary...

But yes, if you're so bored with reading that you can't find any genre to hold your interest, then maybe its time to take up visiting the art museum, deep sea fishing, or bowling...
 

Miss Plum

Sockpuppet
Banned
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
1,570
Reaction score
187
You're mistaken. Murphy's Law is "anything that can go wrong, will."

You're quoting Sturgeon's Second Law, 90% of everything is crud.
Note, I said "corollary X."

Sturgeon's Second Law is too generous.
 

Irysangel

She of Many Names
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 19, 2005
Messages
1,711
Reaction score
936
Dude, you just managed to insult about 97% of the writers on this board in one post. I think that's probably a record. It's not the genres, it's you.

This. Yikes.

Also? Go to Goodreads and browse around to see what other people recommend if you have a favorite author or two. I've found lots of recommendations that way.

Also x2? It's normal to come out of a bookstore and feel like you didn't find anything to read. Happens to me all the time. It just means that you're restless, not that everything on the shelves is crap.
 

AceTachyon

Odd person
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 22, 2005
Messages
6,452
Reaction score
972
Location
The Lair, WA
Website
www.abnersenires.com
You can actually leave a bookstore without finding a book to buy? :eek: My wallet wishes I had that kind of problem.
I have to fight this, CT. Otherwise I'll spend a couple hundred on one visit. And I go to the bookstore a lot.

So it's usually just one book at a time.

Usually.

But oh, there's so many I waaaaaant.....!
 

Wiskel

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
511
Reaction score
81
Location
High above the rooftops...swinging from web to web
There is more to enjoying books than reading the ones shops want to advertise.

I'm a comics collector. There's a thrill to travelling for 2 hours, going to a collectors fair, searching through the stocks of a room full of dealers and going home with that one single issue you've been after. the fact I spent 20 times as much on petrol, parking and admission fees doesn't matter.

For me, a bad trip to a bookshop is one where I've got 10 minutes to find something. I never do.

A good trip is one where I have an hour or so to kill and can really explore the place. then I'll find more to buy then I can afford....but finding that one gem that I've never heard of, or actually remembering the title of a book I from a review that interested me and hunting it down is half the fun....especially if I can't remember the author's name.

There are also some interesting games to play in bookshops. The Borders I used to frequent had a coffee shop on a balcony with a view over the science fiction section. On several occassions I've picked a book based on the impression it's cover makes at a distance of 50 feet. I know that's not how you're meant to do it, but I'm sure the author of the book didn't mind (if you want a sale then sunsets look nice at that distance)

Craig
 

RemusShepherd

Banned
Flounced
VPXI
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
896
Reaction score
112
Age
56
Location
Midwest
Website
remus-shepherd.livejournal.com
What you see in bookstores is not representative of what authors are writing. It is representative of what marketers and acquisition managers think people want to read.

For some reason they assume that having read one vampire novel, everyone in the world will then want to read another, rather than something fresh to cleanse their palate. There is a tremendous lack of creativity going on, but it's a lack on the part of the gnomes who run the bookstores and publishers. They will chase a concept until it is run into the ground.
 

Toothpaste

THE RECKLESS RESCUE is out now!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
8,745
Reaction score
3,096
Location
Toronto, Canada
Website
www.adriennekress.com
Whenever I read a post like this I see someone falling prey to marketing people. Because the only explanation that these were the only books you saw is that all you were looking at were the display tables in the sections you described (or that you were in a very small bookstore). The fact is that yes, there are current trends and those trends appear front and centre. Publishers pay good money to have their trends front and centre. It is up to you as a reader and future writer to go past the obvious marketing and check out the book shelves, see the other books out there that are also published but might not have had the same financial push and thus not wind up on the front display tables.

Because, I'm sorry, you're just wrong. There are many other YA books out there not about Vampires, just as there are many epic fantasy/SF novels that have their own unique properties. And to say that there isn't, well, that's just absurd.
 

CloudyDay

Out of here
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
85
Reaction score
16
Location
Earth
What you see in bookstores is not representative of what authors are writing. It is representative of what marketers and acquisition managers think people want to read.

I agree with this. I went to the bookstore with a list because I didn't want to feel overwhelmed. I just knew there would be more books for me to buy than what I'd allowed in my budget. There were only 2 books in the store that were on my list. Most of the others were sad imitations of another more popular title. Keep in mind that these missing novels were titles published by major houses yet I couldn't find them in the store. I had to order them. I guess that's what makes ordering online so popular. The selection isn't chosen by what someone believes will sell instead of what I want to buy.
 

ChaosTitan

Around
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
15,463
Reaction score
2,886
Location
The not-so-distant future
Website
kellymeding.com
What you see in bookstores is not representative of what authors are writing. It is representative of what marketers and acquisition managers think people want to read.

For some reason they assume that having read one vampire novel, everyone in the world will then want to read another, rather than something fresh to cleanse their palate. There is a tremendous lack of creativity going on, but it's a lack on the part of the gnomes who run the bookstores and publishers. They will chase a concept until it is run into the ground.

Publishers and bookstores are BUSINESSES. So yes, publishers are going to buy books they think people want to read. Why on earth would they buy books they didn't think people would want to read?

In bookstores, like any other retail business, floor space is money. If having eight copies of Twilight on the shelf pays their rent and their employees? You better believe they'll carry Twilight. Or Angels & Demons or the latest Grisham novel.

Bookstores carry what they can sell. If bookstores prefer to order books from lesser-known authors and smaller presses, rather than put them in stock on the meager hope someone will buy it, then it's a business decision. Those top sellers and books that "lack creativity" are what keep your local bookstore open.
 

veinglory

volitare nequeo
Self-Ban
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
28,750
Reaction score
2,934
Location
right here
Website
www.veinglory.com
*cross post*

The selection more or less has to be based on what someone thinks people will buy. And quantitatively speaking, I suspect they are probably pretty good at it. They need to buy product that will sell through and based on a single digit profit margin the the books store's ability to take risks is fairly small. For the same reason I can't buy vegemite in any of my local supermarkets--which annoys me but there you go. It's not popular here.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.