people who want you to succeed

I know people who want me to succeed until I do.

Which is sad.

I haven't really thought about it. I don't talk much about what I do. What I think matters, but beyond that I'm not fussed. My family, definitely, and my friends. Most people are too busy being caught up in the things that are important to them to spend time being someone else's champion. I don't worry about it--I just focus on what's important to me.

Let it go. Bitterness isn't worth the damage it does to you.

I agree that bitterness does nothing for your career. You'll never make someone give a damn about your writing; that way lies emotional exhaustion.

It's cool to have a champion, though, so value them when they appear.

I know plenty of people who talk about writing far more than they actually do anything about it, so in my opinion, taking an "anything that grows makes no noise" attitude is wise. Don't talk about what you're going to do...do it, then present people with the evidence of your achievement.

That way, even if they don't give you credit, you've still got something to show for your efforts, whether it be a book, a contract, an agent or simply...money!

Not that you should write to earn people's affections, but what I mean is, it's better to write than to tell people you're going to write.

jerry phoenix said:

i heard a german proverb that i keep in mind. 'anything that grows makes no noise'.

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Excellent quote. I'm not sure it prevails in everything, but I really like it for writing.

The vast majority of people in my life I can't get rid of (family) are either indifferent or destructive to my writing. Thus, I choose to hang with only those who are supportive of what I choose to do with my time. Quality over quantity is what matters, after all.

Here's another fantastic quote, which might be relevant, might not. But I like it.

"Desire is prayer." -Terry McMillan

jerry phoenix said:

i only know of three people who want me to succeed; my wife and two friends. most other people i know seem indifferent. some seem to want me to fail, ignoring any good news i get and enjoying any bad news.

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This is just human nature, and why people enjoy books where the protagonist experiences every sort of failure and difficulty.

This used to really tick me off, a real thorn in my side. I had daydreams of accepting awards and publicly embarrassing all those people who treated me so horribly over all this.

Then I realized it didn't matter what they thought, what mattered is what I thought. If I loved my writing and if I wanted to succeed. All the people cheering me on in the world to succeed wouldn't exchange the work and effort I needed to do.

I pushed them completely out of my mind and focused. Sometimes those people will somewhat acknowledge the progress I've made, the jobs I've wrangled in, other times they are completely indifferent or worse, they do everything in their power to undermine my efforts and make them look like nothing. It still doesn't matter because their opinion on my writing and my efforts don't matter to me. My husband, my kids, and a portion of my family support me. That's good enough for me.

At the end of the day does it really matter what these people think?

Yes. Or threads like this wouldn't exist.

scarletpeaches said:

it's better to write than to tell people you're going to write.

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QFT.

While most of my family and some friends new I wrote, they didn't really know how serious I was about it. Only my parents and sister really knew I was submitting to agents, because I mentioned it a few times. I didn't complain to them about every rejection or celebrate every request.

Part of my silence was fear. Fear of jinxing my chances if I talked about it too much. Fear of being seen as a failure if I had never managed to write something worth an agent/editor's time. When I finally started celebrating my book contract, I can't count the number of times someone in my life looked at me and said, "You wrote a book?"

The most important people in my life knew I was writing and they cheered me on. And they still do.

**Hugs thread**

jerry phoenix said:

i only know of three people who want me to succeed; my wife and two friends. most other people i know seem indifferent. some seem to want me to fail, ignoring any good news i get and enjoying any bad news.

i no longer talk about my work with anyone unless asked, and then i keep it short. i heard a german proverb that i keep in mind. 'anything that grows makes no noise'. these days i write much more than i talk about writing. i admit it was not always thus.

i cant help but to feel bitter towards those who will not credit my effort.

how many people that you know want you to succeed?

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Most people you know seem indifferent? What's wrong with that? Why should they feel any other way? You don't honestly expect everyone to cheer when you talk about something that just doesn't interest them, do you?

If you want to watch eyes glaze over instantly, just start talking about writing.

What difference does it make whether people want you to succeed of fail?
It's good that your wife wants you to succeed, just to keep harmony in the house, but outside of this, who cares?

I suppose it gives you someone to blame if you do fail, but that's about it. I also know that sometimes those who seem to want you to fail can be those who care the most. Those who know little about writing just go by the numbers, and the numbers say you will fail. This is true is sports, in business, and in writing.

Which means sometimes some people push you to quit because they don't want you living a life of poverty and failed dreams.

But either way, who cares?

Talk is cheap, and impresses no one. Nor should it. It usually comes out as bragging, or complaining, or as a pipe dream.

Other than your wife, you should only talk about writing with other writers, and then darned little. For that matter, you should only talk to your wife about it if you know she's actually wants to hear it. Too many would-be writers talk much and write little.

Are you writing because you LOVE to write, and really want to be a writer, or are you writing to impress other people? If it's the first, you shouldn't need to talk about it to every Tom, Dick, and Harriette, or at all. It shouldn't matter who wants you to succeed or fail. You're already doing what you love to do. You're writing.

If it's the second, you've already failed.

Talk less, write more, and don't expect people to care one way or the other. People are the way they are. They have their own interests, their own lives to live, their own dreams and ambitions, and it's not right to expect anyone outside your immediate family to care one way or the other. And by immediate, I mean anyone living in the same house you do, and your parents. That's it. And even they don't have to gush and cheer. They just have to care about you.

Talk less, write more. If you fail, it will be because you talk too much and write too little, or lack discipline, or simply lack talent. It won't be because people are indifferent, or even because people hate you and pray for you to fail.

jerry, darling...let go of the bitterness. Think not of all the insults you will throw their way.

Jesus, man, have you no self-respect?

A good big kneecapping works much better.

The only person to worry about is the person you see when you look in the mirror. If, at the end of each day, you can look at that person and convince him you did something productive and/or worthwhile that day, you can go to bed a content person. If you did nothing producive and/or worthwhile, it's okay to be upset, but only at that person. If someone other than the mirror-person steps up and commends you on one of your activities, consider that a wonderful gift. Only a person with a sense of entitlement should expect that kind of gift from anyone but the mirror-person.

Just to let you know, though. The reason I hang out here at AW is to give/receive that mutual hope and encouragement of success in this writing thing we all do. If only half the people here of a like mind, you have hundreds, if not thousands of people who are interested in your success, and their willingness to contribute here shows it to you every day.

Whenever someone is doing something that's a big, difficult, but worthwhile challenge, whether it's writing a book, starting a business, losing a load of weight, training to run a marathon, whatever, there'll be people who want them to fail, because it reminds them that they themselves have never dared take on such a challenge and chase their dreams. Tall poppy syndrome. They want you cut down to their size.

Forget them. Be the tall poppy. One thing you can guarantee is, if you do become a hugely bestselling and rich writer they'll still try to borrow money from you even though they always said nothing would come of that writing nonsense.

...and may your tall poppyism resin-ate to be the opiate of the masses.

Everyone wants my novel to get published. Except, apparently, agents.

Don't worry about the people who are indifferent or worse. They're not worth the energy required for the emotional upheaval and space to think about them. Your writing needs your energy far more.

Also, everything Neuro said. Especially:

NeuroFizz said:

...and may your tall poppyism resin-ate to be the opiate of the masses.

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scarletpeaches said:

Yes. Or threads like this wouldn't exist.

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I know it probably shouldn't matter, but what other people say does bother me. It's hard to be excited about your successes when you know that there are other people who will do everything they can to downplay them.

Three people who want you to succeed? You're doing pretty good! Add another person when you count yourself.

Here's something I've observed about writing. It's your worst bet if you want to take up some art and get general admiration for it. Why? Because nobody is impressed by a big pile of pages with words, words, words on them. To be impressed, they have to take the time and make the effort to read.

Whereas, if you draw or paint or sculpt, lots of people are going to instantly gasp in amazement; they can see at a glance that you have a talent most don't. If you can sing or play an instrument, ditto -- doesn't take them much effort to hear that you're good. Dance, ditto. Acting would be ditto, except people might have to buy a ticket to see that you're good at it, and that could be a deterrent.

Painting or drawing are probably the best attention-getters. Go set up an easel before any scenic view and start dabbing at a canvas. Everyone passing by will crane his neck or edge up to get a look at your creation. The less diffident will come right up and goggle. And you don't even have to be Picasso -- bare proficiency will suffice to awe the majority.

The other thing about the visual and musical arts. Most people will be impressed that you can just DO them. You don't have to have galleries clamoring for your work or recording contracts. Dance talent you can show off for the price of a club admission or contest entry.

Acting is more difficult, in that I find people do judge your success by whether you can get a part. So that's more analogous to writing.

Writing, though. It's still about the worst attention getter, because for most civilians, you ain't a real writer until you're published. Besides, ANYONE who's literate can write. Right?

Just observations. I'm not trying to drive all you people into the other arts. Really.

Sometimes it's hard to believe it doesn't matter when the people you live with mock what you do, when your social group undermines your goals and dreams. It's all selfish and destructive on their part, but sometimes it's really hard to ignore.

It's easy for an outsider to say "don't listen to them" or "move out/get a new job/avoid them" but not all people have the financial options to be able to do it. It can be a really toxic situation, rather like La Brea Tar Pits.

For those who've never faced it, count yourself as supremely blessed by whatever diety/force you prefer. For those who have the personal and financial strength to barrel through it and make the changes quickly, also count yourself as blessed. There's plenty who have to spend a lot of time and energy to get what you came by so naturally.

Then there's this bit of Muppet inspiration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioR28cNX33Y