Chances of publishing a series?

I would say your chances depend on a couple of things:

a) How much the publisher loves the first book
b) How much the readers love your first book

And also to some extent

c) How much of the later books are written when you pitch your first one.

I get the idea that people are more likely to sign a deal for a whole series if it looks like they have some hard evidence that the new author is going to actually finish the series. At least make sure you have detailed outlines of the later books.

After that, it really all depends on how fantastic Book # 1 is. Don't be in a rush to get it out there. Make it as spectacular as you can.

The current trend, at least in SF/F, is to sign an author for a two or three book deal, even if you are new. So chances are you'd see at least two of the four books in print (unless the first book does so poorly/you're such a beast to work with that it's better for the editor to back out of the contract).

Whether or not you see more than the initial 2/3 contract depends on sales. If the first book does well and they project the second to do as well, then chances are good you'll sell more books in the series. But there really are no numbers, because there are just too many variables that you can't control.

Glorium said:

So my question is, what are the actual chances of getting past that first book?

Because right now I'm planning a four book series (that may be condensed into three, depending...), and I think I'd be a little devastated if the whole story didn't get out.

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If your first book doesn't cut it, the chances are 0 to the -3 power.

caw

Usually it takes three books to see if a new author is going to soar, float, or sink. If you soar, problem solved. If you float into the midlist, most publishers will continue to seriously consider your work. If you sink, you may have to reinvent yourself to get more book deals.

If your fears are that you'll write a substandard book two, I would suggest not worrying so much about something that isn't written yet. A publisher will not say 'Wow this is horrible, but we signed a contract so we have to publish it'. Your contract will never put them into a position where they have to publish poo. Odds are much better that they will work with you to get book two up to at least the quality of book one. And if they can't, then they won't buy it. It's that simple.

And if you don't get that contract, at least it will give you time to to weld the three books together, (as in tying in foreshadowing, fixing plot holes etc. Sometimes rejection is the right thing for the story...why does it feel like I wrote that to myself? (stumbles off into the darkness))

Glorium said:

Okay, well that sounds good. Thanks both for your input.

I mean, it's my first series so I'm not really expecting much, but I at least want to have enough success to build a small fanbase, haha.

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Well, that'll be up to you. And having a fandom, big or small, is amazing fun. Just prepare yourself for talks of crack!fic and insane pairings.

High chances in fantasy, even for debut novelists.

Plan enough to write the first book. If that attracts a series deal, go for the rest.

Why not condense it all and write the best book you possibly can? Do you want your future agent to submit to a publisher an OK but half-assed story that intentionally leaves a lot hanging or do you want to absolutely floor the ever-loving hell out of them with a book that has them mouthing a silent "wow" when they set the manuscript down? Net the latter results with the first book (the first impression which means oh so much) and you'll damn sure get your series.

Del Rey bought a three-book series from me based on the first book, a five-page synopsis of book two, and a teaser paragraph about book three. Write that first book well and outline your others.

Roc bought the first three in my series, based on the first finished novel, and a promise that I had a premise for at least the next two. They never even asked to see the synopsis of Book 2 until later. (and then I also sent them paragraph teasers for a series of six total.)

third person said:

Why not condense it all and write the best book you possibly can? Do you want your future agent to submit to a publisher an OK but half-assed story that intentionally leaves a lot hanging or do you want to absolutely floor the ever-loving hell out of them with a book that has them mouthing a silent "wow" when they set the manuscript down? Net the latter results with the first book (the first impression which means oh so much) and you'll damn sure get your series.

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This really depends on the scope of your series.

I was trying really hard to condense a massive amount of story into one book, and the book really suffered. It read like a Reader's Digest condensed version of a book. I finally gave in and decided to expand my book into a trilogy - suddenly the characters are coming to life, the pacing is better, and it's just working in a way I could never get it to work as a single book.

However, each of my three books does have an ending and a complete story arc. It's not just one long story cut into three pieces. If the first book is all that ever gets published it will still be satisfying to its readers. If you can't find two good places to "break" the story then yes, maybe it needs to be one long book. But keep in mind it is probably easier to sell a short "first of a series" with a well-planned couple of sequels than it is to sell a 900-page standalone or a standalone that seems rushed and doesn't develop its characters, setting, or plot deeply.

Okay, I have a question that somewhat relates to this...

If you get a 2 or 3-book contract, and your first novel was never meant to be part of a series, do they expect you to write a sequel for it (assuming it does well), or will they allow you to go ahead with your completely new idea and leave the first one as a stand alone success?

I understand it varies, so I guess my real question is, has anyone had an experience similar to this? It seems the trend in SF/F is turn everything into a series, and while I do have a series in the works, I don't want it to be my debut, and the other projects are all stand alones. Any thoughts?

Lydia Sharp said:

If you get a 2 or 3-book contract, and your first novel was never meant to be part of a series, do they expect you to write a sequel for it (assuming it does well), or will they allow you to go ahead with your completely new idea and leave the first one as a stand alone success?

I understand it varies, so I guess my real question is, has anyone had an experience similar to this? It seems the trend in SF/F is turn everything into a series, and while I do have a series in the works, I don't want it to be my debut, and the other projects are all stand alones. Any thoughts?

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Good question. I'm right there wondering with you. Because I know any first book I submit must be able to stand on its own, I've only been thinking along the lines of stand-alone titles.

Just from observing book series that fizzle with each sequel, or never get finished at all, I feel like I'd rather write exclusively stand-alones anyway.

As long as a writer is still prolific enough to keep their name out there and hold reader attention, I don't see why not. One of my fave authors, A. Lee Martinez, seems to write stand-alones exclusively. (But I'll admit I'm biased. I'm the type who avoids series, not just in my own writing, but in my reading, too.)

The #1 reason readers pick up a book is because they've read and enjoyed something else by the same author. Sure, that could point to a series, but it could also point to other solo books by the same writer. Building up sheer number of books and building buzz could be just as effective.

I think editors like series because it's safe (if the first book sells well, it's likely the following ones will, too) and I think authors like series because it's easier (you don't have to start from scratch with world-building and character creation.) But the readers are the ones who make the final determination.

Something interesting I discovered at my pitch sessions at RT--

More than one agent and editor brought up the necessity of knowing what you're going to follow up that first book with. Two cited The Time Traveler's Wife specifically--how the writer's followup didn't hold up to her debut and how important it is to know that a new writer is considering his/her career and not just that one completed novel that's being pitched. Several editors in particular asked to see not only the manuscript I was pitching, but the other WIPs I had going and, at the very least, teasers of what those projects were. I'm lucky; I have five completed projects and several others in progress. That seemed to work out for me.

As I said--this is just the information that I received from those pitch sessions. It may mean nothing in the grand scheme of things but what those editors and agents were concerned with on the basis of my own pitch. But then again, all knowledge is worth having and maybe it'll help someone else.

Oberon89 said:

Del Rey bought a three-book series from me based on the first book, a five-page synopsis of book two, and a teaser paragraph about book three. Write that first book well and outline your others.

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Ditto, except I had several chapters of Book 2 complete, and only longish paragraph synopses for books two and three.

Lydia Sharp said:

Okay, I have a question that somewhat relates to this...

If you get a 2 or 3-book contract, and your first novel was never meant to be part of a series, do they expect you to write a sequel for it (assuming it does well), or will they allow you to go ahead with your completely new idea and leave the first one as a stand alone success?

I understand it varies, so I guess my real question is, has anyone had an experience similar to this? It seems the trend in SF/F is turn everything into a series, and while I do have a series in the works, I don't want it to be my debut, and the other projects are all stand alones. Any thoughts?

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When I wrote The Conqueror's Shadow, it was meant to be a standalone novel. I had no plans to write a sequel, and in fact, I was rather hostile to the very idea of one.

When I signed with Random House, they wanted a two-book deal--and they wanted the second book to be a sequel to the first. That wasn't negotiable.

And you know, I came up with a sequel that I'm very happy with, and in the process of coming up with that, I actually developed ideas for more, so if both TCS and The Warlord's Legacy do well, I can write more with the character.

But the point is, yeah, at least sometimes the publisher may want a sequel to a book that you planned to be stand-alone. And honestly? You're usually better off agreeing, even if you really hadn't wanted to write a sequel. Beginning writers have very literal room for leverage, and editors do keep track of which authors are easy to work with and which make their lives difficult.

As far as the original question...

While there are obviously exceptions--some have posted in this very thread --my understanding is that, for the most part, a debut novel must be able to stand on its own. Even if it leaves room for a sequel, and even if the publisher wants a sequel, it should not and must not require that sequel. I know that seems a little counter-intuitive, but it's what I've been told by multiple editors and agents in the biz.

Mishell said:

This really depends on the scope of your series.

I was trying really hard to condense a massive amount of story into one book, and the book really suffered. It read like a Reader's Digest condensed version of a book. I finally gave in and decided to expand my book into a trilogy - suddenly the characters are coming to life, the pacing is better, and it's just working in a way I could never get it to work as a single book.

However, each of my three books does have an ending and a complete story arc. It's not just one long story cut into three pieces. If the first book is all that ever gets published it will still be satisfying to its readers. If you can't find two good places to "break" the story then yes, maybe it needs to be one long book. But keep in mind it is probably easier to sell a short "first of a series" with a well-planned couple of sequels than it is to sell a 900-page standalone or a standalone that seems rushed and doesn't develop its characters, setting, or plot deeply.

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Ironically enough, I'm having to do the opposite of this for another one of my projects. It was originally developed as a trilogy, but I realized it would be hard to develop three books. So I compressed the whole story into one and it's working much better.