If you were in this author's position, what you you think?
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Here we go again ...
Personally, I find it rather interesting that Diana Gabaldon is complaining about people fanficcing her characters, when Jamie Fraser is based on a companion of Two in Doctor Who.
I think that Fox Mulder fell in love with a lot of people ... The man whore.
Except that 99.9% of fanficcers don't pass it off as their work. They make a big point of saying that they're using characters etc created by the original author.
I can.
Well, let me correct that. I don't have a problem with authors coming out and saying that they have a problem with fanfic - no one is making them like it and I guess that if you're completely new to it then seeing what some people want your characters to do can be a personal :O.
I do have a problem with authors getting hysterical about it, making assumptions that show only that they have not got the first clue what fanfic is or what fanficcers are trying to do/accomplish (if anything with it) and then making blanket statements that fanfic is "illegal" under "International Copyright Law" when there has never been a court case to back up that supposition.
This.
No you don't.
There are authors who serve C&D notices on fanfic sites. In the vast majority of cases those sites will comply with the notice because they don't have the money to take it to court and don't want to risk it.
However receiving a C&D notice is not the same as being obliged to comply with it. Personally, if I ever received one then I would make the copyright holder prove that I was guilty of infringing their copyright because each piece of fanfic would have to be viewed on its own and not every fanfic will cross the line into infringement (not least because copyright infringement usually involves the appropriation of an author's expression in some way and you can't claim copyright in characters or names - only in how they are expressed). I think that some of the OOC/AU fanfics would simply drop outside the ambit, ironically because they're so badly written that no one would mistake them with the real thing.
He lost the suit because the book was basically reproductions of chunks of texts from the books with v. minimal comment on the same, i.e. it was a straightforward appropriation of expression without the fair comment to bring him within the available defences (and he should have known that from the start).
He ended up taking out a lot of the text and adding a huge amount of comment, which was eventually signed off as being acceptable by JKR's lawyers. Although I believe the sales weren't very good.
Define "full and exclusive use of one's intellectual property".
Where's the line?
I disagree. If an author has come out and said "don't do it because I hate it", then I wouldn't. I also wouldn't be interested in buying their books.
If someone hasn't said anything one way or another, then I regard it as fair game.
MM
Personally, I find it rather interesting that Diana Gabaldon is complaining about people fanficcing her characters, when Jamie Fraser is based on a companion of Two in Doctor Who.
I think that Fox Mulder fell in love with a lot of people ... The man whore.
Except that 99.9% of fanficcers don't pass it off as their work. They make a big point of saying that they're using characters etc created by the original author.
I can.
Well, let me correct that. I don't have a problem with authors coming out and saying that they have a problem with fanfic - no one is making them like it and I guess that if you're completely new to it then seeing what some people want your characters to do can be a personal :O.
I do have a problem with authors getting hysterical about it, making assumptions that show only that they have not got the first clue what fanfic is or what fanficcers are trying to do/accomplish (if anything with it) and then making blanket statements that fanfic is "illegal" under "International Copyright Law" when there has never been a court case to back up that supposition.
This.
No you don't.
There are authors who serve C&D notices on fanfic sites. In the vast majority of cases those sites will comply with the notice because they don't have the money to take it to court and don't want to risk it.
However receiving a C&D notice is not the same as being obliged to comply with it. Personally, if I ever received one then I would make the copyright holder prove that I was guilty of infringing their copyright because each piece of fanfic would have to be viewed on its own and not every fanfic will cross the line into infringement (not least because copyright infringement usually involves the appropriation of an author's expression in some way and you can't claim copyright in characters or names - only in how they are expressed). I think that some of the OOC/AU fanfics would simply drop outside the ambit, ironically because they're so badly written that no one would mistake them with the real thing.
He lost the suit because the book was basically reproductions of chunks of texts from the books with v. minimal comment on the same, i.e. it was a straightforward appropriation of expression without the fair comment to bring him within the available defences (and he should have known that from the start).
He ended up taking out a lot of the text and adding a huge amount of comment, which was eventually signed off as being acceptable by JKR's lawyers. Although I believe the sales weren't very good.
Define "full and exclusive use of one's intellectual property".
Where's the line?
I disagree. If an author has come out and said "don't do it because I hate it", then I wouldn't. I also wouldn't be interested in buying their books.
If someone hasn't said anything one way or another, then I regard it as fair game.
MM
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If the author doesn't mind, I don't see an issue with it. fanfic authors aren't making any money off of it -- and if they are, it legally has to be approved by the original creator anyway. And if they're posting to a site like fanfiction.net? Well, everyone goes there knowing it's what it is -- fanfic. No one is going to assume these characters/setting are the person's own.
FF.net is also respectful of the authors who don't want fanfic of their works spread around. They have a list up... somewhere although I can't find the link, but you won't find anything on their site involving fics of authors like Anne Rice, Laurell K. Hamilton, Terry Goodkind, Anne Bishop, Raymond Feist, Nora Roberts, etc etc. (More about it here.)
As for the legality of it... The courts still go back and forth on it and I think it's ruled on a case by case basis, because a good chunk of fanfic does fall under Fair Use.
Some authors regard fanfiction as free promotion. It's a huge thing in Japan, even -- doujinshi made after excisting series and those creators do actually get money for making them. If you look for them, you can find things like the Charmed or Star Trek novels that are, technically, fanfic, but were published with the creators' full approval because, again, free advertising for their work. Those that don't mind fic, I'd suggest not reading it for legal reasons. Or if you must, read it and... don't comment on it. At least not until that particular 'world'/series is completed by you. Those who don't like it have the right to request for it to be removed.
Obviously not all authors will feel this way and some just don't want it done. Their work, their babies. I'm not honestly sure which side of the fence I'm on, but I can see both sides of it. I don't think I'd mind having people use my characters for their own entertainment so long as they weren't making money from it.
FF.net is also respectful of the authors who don't want fanfic of their works spread around. They have a list up... somewhere although I can't find the link, but you won't find anything on their site involving fics of authors like Anne Rice, Laurell K. Hamilton, Terry Goodkind, Anne Bishop, Raymond Feist, Nora Roberts, etc etc. (More about it here.)
As for the legality of it... The courts still go back and forth on it and I think it's ruled on a case by case basis, because a good chunk of fanfic does fall under Fair Use.
Some authors regard fanfiction as free promotion. It's a huge thing in Japan, even -- doujinshi made after excisting series and those creators do actually get money for making them. If you look for them, you can find things like the Charmed or Star Trek novels that are, technically, fanfic, but were published with the creators' full approval because, again, free advertising for their work. Those that don't mind fic, I'd suggest not reading it for legal reasons. Or if you must, read it and... don't comment on it. At least not until that particular 'world'/series is completed by you. Those who don't like it have the right to request for it to be removed.
Obviously not all authors will feel this way and some just don't want it done. Their work, their babies. I'm not honestly sure which side of the fence I'm on, but I can see both sides of it. I don't think I'd mind having people use my characters for their own entertainment so long as they weren't making money from it.
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I would have thought my post said it all.
The freedom from having one's characters taken and forced into situations the author did not choose to put them in and/or make money from.
Are you saying you'd only give an author your money if they let you use the characters you read about?
Hmm. That's the way it sounds.
Might be better to spend all that energy on inventing your own characters instead of piggybacking on someone else's hard work.
The phrase 'fair game' really boils my piss. That's exactly why I hate fanfic.
This is exactly how I feel about books that are based on out of copyright material..
some 13 year old writing a story about their favourite book or television character and posting it on 'geocities' (remember them? lol)? not really a credible threat in my eyes - at least not to the same extent of someone using out of copyright characters to 'piggyback' their talent. That absolutely irritates me.
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I've read maybe...one of those 'piggybacking' books that I can recall. Maybe two. Flipped through others to give them a fair go, but...never seen one that was anywhere near as good as the original.
Way I look at it is, aside from the moral issue (and I will always maintain that fanfic is immoral), when it comes to quality of writing, give them a fair go. And...I have never read fanfic that was much good. Ever.
I like to think the writers who are any good are off writing original material and making money off their work.
Way I look at it is, aside from the moral issue (and I will always maintain that fanfic is immoral), when it comes to quality of writing, give them a fair go. And...I have never read fanfic that was much good. Ever.
I like to think the writers who are any good are off writing original material and making money off their work.
I think that post was unnecessarily harsh.
I love fanfic--don't write it, but read a ton, usually for a particular TV show that's not on the air. Most of it's crap. But there are a few who are PHENOMENAL writers, and I love that they give me the chance to hang with the characters again.
If someone wrote fanfic of my stuff, I'd be flattered, as long as they weren't trying to sell it.
I love fanfic--don't write it, but read a ton, usually for a particular TV show that's not on the air. Most of it's crap. But there are a few who are PHENOMENAL writers, and I love that they give me the chance to hang with the characters again.
If someone wrote fanfic of my stuff, I'd be flattered, as long as they weren't trying to sell it.
I can understand her point. And I agree that just because people don't make money off of fanfic doesn't mean she has to be okay with it. They are her characters. It's different with something like Batman, which has been around for such a long time and had so many different incarnations. There is a wrong way to do it, but no one right way. With her characters, there is only one right way, and that is her own.
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The one thing I found creepy was directly equating fic about a real child with fic about a character. There is a difference. Sherlock Holmes fanfic does not effect the canon or the character in any real way, and does not actually directly harm Sherlock--because he is imaginary.
To the OP, do a thread search and you will find oodles of threads on this. All of which usually end with a lockdown. On a up note, I have fifteen pages left to edit on my novella
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Creating a character inspired by another character and giving him a different name isn't fanfiction. Fanfiction draws attention from readers only because of their devotion to the source material. Diana Gabaldon made a pretty good point of this with the challenge to change the names and own whatever accolades and following the piece gets without the flag of established successful characters and settings.
Well, I'm hearing opposite things from people claiming expertise, so I don't know what to think.
And personally, I find this hugely disrespectful.
Obviously many people feel this way, but again, I find it presumptuous. Certainly you or any other writer can risk it, deal with a C&D request as you see fit, and so on. You're not bothered by the opposing arguments, and the opposing arguments aren't likely to be swayed by your not being bothered by it.
So, status quo and we'll all keep on keepin' on.
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So, yeah, when somebody posts their fanfic of your story crossed over into Hannah Montana or the Jonas Brothers...
Fan fiction has been around for a long time, and it's not going anywhere. It used to be distributed hand to hand or via the post in badly mimeographed pamphlets or smeary carbon copies. Way under the radar.
The difference today: The Internet. Super easy production and archiving. Access to other fans around the world. Branching of fandoms into tinier and tinier twigs. You're a Harry Potter ficcer? That tells me nothing. Do you write gen HP or ship HP? Slash or het? Canon or alternative? And what ship? Harry/Ginny (totally canon or alt?) Harry/Draco? Luna/Lavender? Percy/Salazar Slytherin? Dumbledore/the giant squid? In any case, high visibility.
Just like "real" fic, fanfic spans the spectrum from teh suxxor to roxxor. And when enough time has passed, whoa, fanfic becomes legitimate! See the Jane Austen industry. The Sherlock Holmes industry is poised on the brink of a universal end of copyright.
The laws surrounding copyright are labyrinthine and increasingly challenged by technology. My credo is that no one should be able to make money on your intellectual property during your lifetime. My observation is that all aspects of legitimate fandom, including fanfic, are compliments to the author. You've created a world so compelling other people want to live in it, which is what an act of creation is. Wow you.
As for writing fanfic, then changing the names, then trying to sell it? Ouch. That's theft in my book, even if you can get away with it.
The difference today: The Internet. Super easy production and archiving. Access to other fans around the world. Branching of fandoms into tinier and tinier twigs. You're a Harry Potter ficcer? That tells me nothing. Do you write gen HP or ship HP? Slash or het? Canon or alternative? And what ship? Harry/Ginny (totally canon or alt?) Harry/Draco? Luna/Lavender? Percy/Salazar Slytherin? Dumbledore/the giant squid? In any case, high visibility.
Just like "real" fic, fanfic spans the spectrum from teh suxxor to roxxor. And when enough time has passed, whoa, fanfic becomes legitimate! See the Jane Austen industry. The Sherlock Holmes industry is poised on the brink of a universal end of copyright.
The laws surrounding copyright are labyrinthine and increasingly challenged by technology. My credo is that no one should be able to make money on your intellectual property during your lifetime. My observation is that all aspects of legitimate fandom, including fanfic, are compliments to the author. You've created a world so compelling other people want to live in it, which is what an act of creation is. Wow you.
As for writing fanfic, then changing the names, then trying to sell it? Ouch. That's theft in my book, even if you can get away with it.
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That'd be so cool considering the opportunities it affords to increase the body count while simultaneously attacking the dire problem of noise pollution.
This would kill me, I'd be laughing so hard.
Actually, I'm really looking forward to the crossovers to Twilight...
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Was this directed towards me?
Say this happens. Is it supposed to offend me? I don't really get it. My book still exists exactly how it was. As long as people aren't making money from it, I don't care what people write using my characters. They're out into the world ,and they're not real people, and it doesn't hurt me. I don't have to read it (and I wouldn't) so I don't see any reason to stop it from existing.
I do both. My first novel was recently released by Samhain, plus I write Transformers fanfics (and post them to a couple of LiveJournal communities as well as ff.net). I enjoy both kinds of writing.
I've also come across a couple of really talented fanfic writers - one of whom has these turns of phrase which make me jealous. Her style reminds me of Tanith Lee's.
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Yes. Yes. Yes. Not really.
I don't think I write the kind of books that would garner fanfic, but if I did, I'd do my best to ignore it. I have my vision of my characters, world, situation and I'm happy with that. If I wasn't, then I'd write a different story. If people have different interpretations and want to explore it, that's fine, but I don't want the distraction.
Though, I will admit that, when I was finished writing in that world, it would be fun to write fanfic in my own world about things I didn't pursue for publication and post it, just for fun. Or post on my website or something. It could be appealing, if I had the time and a different story to tell.
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