Writers who don't do drugs (Writing about people who do)

Same here. I've been drunk and smoked marijuana but I've never dropped acid or shot heroin or smoked crack any of those hard (scary, to me) drugs. I often write about it, though. My answer is: research. I've read a lot about individual drug experiences and I've observed people under the influence of various substances. Do you have any friends who do drugs or who know people who do drugs? Ask if you can attend a party where people will be doing the drugs you're interested in.

Google has a number of resources for parents on how to tell their kids are doing stuff... It depends on how much detail you need, there's also support groups on line. For what I needed (but I'm writing a detective story) the chapter dedicated to drugs on Lofland's book (http://www.amazon.com/dp/1582974551/?tag=absolutewritedm-20) sufficed. He explains how drugs affect people.

Research is the answer to anything you can't or won't experience yourself. This includes anything that might be illegal (Drugs to murder) or exceptionally dangerous (Extreme sports to warfare) or simply 'out of rich' (Lifestyles of the rich and famous, or some career you can't achieve in short order IE Surgeons, Astronaut etc.)

Research includes reading up on the angle of course. Internet has made this extremely accessible . But really first hand accounts - talking face to face is absolutely the best way to get 'insight'.

Once the details are lined up - then the writer must reach down into their own experiences to find some sort of emotional connection - and help give the issue that ring of truth. Ever WANTED to kill someone? That depth of emotion. Ever FALLEN from a great height safely? Whatever you can do to help relate to the subject matter will infuse it with authenticity. One does not have to be addicted to DRUGS to have an understanding of addiction or compulsive behavior.

BelmontHeir said:

So if I'm trying to write from the POV of someone who is stoned or tripping on acid, what could I do to make my writing more authentic...bar actually getting stoned or dropping acid myself? Heh.

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You might try hanging around people who were taking drugs, but I really don't think that it is possible to communicate the experience of tripping without tripping. You should consider taking acid. Actual pure LSD is perfectly safe, and the experience is good for the mental health of about 998 out of 1000 people. The only person I know who was harmed by acid eventually made the experience profitable by using it as a basis for a novel.

I haven't done heroin but I had the next best thing. Many years ago I had my appendix out. They gave me morphine for the pain. Apparently gave me more than I needed because I still remember how good I felt. I lay in the hospital bed floating about four inches above the mattress. Relatives came to visit, I smiled, waved to them and ignored their presence. I truly learned the meaning of euphoria that day.

Pot smokers feel good, mellow, high, but nothing like the high from morphine or heroin (which is purified morphine).

Speed users are agitated and paranoid. They jump at anything, they live in a fight or flight condition and have significantly more strength than they would normally. I had to fight a guy tripping on speed once. I had him face down on the ground with his arms behind him, and he bucked me (200+ pounds) off. I ended up clubbing him unconscious, giving him a minor skull fracture. (he had been trying to beat his GF to death with a long-handled shovel when I got there).

Acid users are in a whole nother world. They can be on a mild trip, where things are just enhanced, to a major psychotic event where reality has taken leave. I watched a man take a swan dive off a seven story building, flapping his arms as if he was flying. He flew, straight down, bouncing about 6 feet. He probably died on impact. He was dead when I got to him.

I don't know if this helps.

PeterL said:

You might try hanging around people who were taking drugs, but I really don't think that it is possible to communicate the experience of tripping without tripping. You should consider taking acid. Actual pure LSD is perfectly safe, and the experience is good for the mental health of about 998 out of 1000 people. The only person I know who was harmed by acid eventually made the experience profitable by using it as a basis for a novel.

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That's really bad advice, for two reasons. First, most of what's sold as acid is not pure acid, and many of the adulterants are not safe at all. I've heard estimates that around 75% of "acid" isn't, and I've personally seen people messed up by taking something that was sold to them as "acid" but was completely different. And even genuine pure acid is often contaminated because it's so hard to manufacture.

Secondly, that's illegal. I'd think long and hard about doing anything that could land me in prison just to help my writing.

I don't do drugs but I used to live in Amsterdam for quite a few years which is the next best thing Although I understand where the advice PeterL gives you is coming from, I'd say doing it yourself is not really necessary because what you need is not the actual experience, it's the words you put this experience into. It's common knowledge that a drunk actor can't play a drunk convincingly and you might profit much more from meeting (online or in person) people who can describe their experience for you. So that actual drug users can read it and say, "Oh yes, he obviously knows what he's talking about!" while all you've done you've used the right words to describe the experience.

Talking about the advice PeterL gives you, one thing I've heard often from my Amsterdam "friends" with life-long histories of unrepentant drug using is that LSD, no matter how pure, is absolutely unpredictable. You can never tell in advance whether it's going to be a good or a bad trip, and very few people have survived a bad trip intact. For many, their very first bad trip ended at the graveyard or in a mental hospital. "Dangerous" is an understatement, and that's straight from the horse's mouth.

ChristineR said:

That's really bad advice, for two reasons. First, most of what's sold as acid is not pure acid, and many of the adulterants are not safe at all. I've heard estimates that around 75% of "acid" isn't, and I've personally seen people messed up by taking something that was sold to them as "acid" but was completely different. And even genuine pure acid is often contaminated because it's so hard to manufacture.

Secondly, that's illegal. I'd think long and hard about doing anything that could land me in prison just to help my writing.

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You first objection is a non sequitur, since I suggested using pure LSD.

The legality of the act is well known, and it doesn't stop people who want to try the stuff. If you don't want to use LSD, then I would suggest that you not use it. However, if you want to learn what it effects are, then you might want to change your mind.

PeterL said:

You first objection is a non sequitur, since I suggested using pure LSD.

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And how is someone who has never used drugs before supposed to know where to get pure LSD, or if it is, in fact, pure LSD? Someone who doesn't know enough about drugs to write about them is probably not going to know enough to actually go and get them and know for certain what they have.

OP, what about posting a few pertinent pages of your work in SYW, so we can get a better idea of what you reader(s) are talking about?

PeterL said:

You might try hanging around people who were taking drugs, but I really don't think that it is possible to communicate the experience of tripping without tripping. ...

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Then one can't write about it from reading trippers' accounts? Then maybe it's not possible to communicate the experience of tripping period.

Certainly an experience becomes more "watered down" as its description becomes second or third hand, but that's true of anything, not just the effects of mind-altering drugs.

Celia Cyanide said:

And how is someone who has never used drugs before supposed to know where to get pure LSD, or if it is, in fact, pure LSD? Someone who doesn't know enough about drugs to write about them is probably not going to know enough to actually go and get them and know for certain what they have.

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I was thinking just that, and its illegality makes determining purity much more complicated.

For going that route, I'd suggest a chemistry degree, which would help you determine purity or to make the stuff yourself. Of course, that gets back to the thing of becoming a surgeon or astronaut just to be able to write about the profession.

Also, I've never done acid or anything like it. I have rather limited experiences with lesser substances (okay, I DO have a lot of experience with alcohol, though it's all in the receding past) but it was enough to show me how inconsistent the effects can be, and I did hear enough of what I thought of as "legitimate" info in all the anti-drug propaganda in school and elsewhere that scared me away from most drugs. In retrospect I'd likely have been one of the two out of those 1000 (presuming that figure is correct) to have a very negative experience, and might have ended up the way Syd Barret lived the last several decades of his life, which definitely wasn't good.

I've had a fairly interesting live, but I can say that, other than doing things yourself, the best option is to talk to people who have done those things.

Talk to people who use drugs. Ask them to describe the experience for you. Translate their descriptions into your own voice.

Instead of going to a party - anyone doing drugs at a party *doesn't* want to describe it to writer - try getting in touch with your local police department.

They can probably put you in touch with drug users in rehab programs who are willing to talk. This has the added benefit of being in a controlled environment where your relative inexperience won't get you in serious trouble.

BelmontHeir said:

Here's the thing: I don't do drugs at all, yet frequently find myself writing about a subset of people in this country who do. I've had at least one person tell me that a story suffered from my lack of knowledge on how drugs affect a person's perception of reality.

So if I'm trying to write from the POV of someone who is stoned or tripping on acid, what could I do to make my writing more authentic...bar actually getting stoned or dropping acid myself? Heh.

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too easy...research.

or if your like me, try it.

ChristineR said:

Secondly, that's illegal. I'd think long and hard about doing anything that could land me in prison just to help my writing.

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interesting...i wouldn't. although there are a few things. doing "illegal" drugs isn't one of them though.

When it comes to LSD specifically I think you're definitely gimping yourself if you haven't done it yourself. It shifts around your whole perception in ways you need to experience to believe. I think it's impossible to understand without having done it yourself.

But if you don't want to:
http://www.erowid.org/
is a good resource. They've got so called "trip reports". Those might help.

You also have the problem that doing research on drugs is extremely difficult, since all the twisted propaganda on both "sides". Psychonauts are a wee bit uncritical about the harm, and tend to overstate the benefits (ie expansion of the mind etc). And the repression loonies think it's the devil, and don't mind lying through their teeth if it'll "save the children". Those last ones are regrettably represented in our governments.

If you have any specific question about doing LSD, I'd be more than happy to answer. I can speak about it in sober retrospect. It was over fifteen years ago I did it last.

Celia Cyanide said:

And how is someone who has never used drugs before supposed to know where to get pure LSD, or if it is, in fact, pure LSD? Someone who doesn't know enough about drugs to write about them is probably not going to know enough to actually go and get them and know for certain what they have.

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You might ask around. There are laboratories that will test the drugs.

benbradley said:

Then one can't write about it from reading trippers' accounts? Then maybe it's not possible to communicate the experience of tripping period.

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That is possible.

[/QUOTE]Certainly an experience becomes more "watered down" as its description becomes second or third hand, but that's true of anything, not just the effects of mind-altering drugs.
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I agree.

The experience people have with drugs varies from one to another.Also, most people who take recreational drugs have know idea what they are actual taking or the dosage.There is plenty of drug related books out there ,The doors of perception and heaven and hell, by Aldous Huxley would be a good start.The Idea that a writer must experience what he writs must be wrong.Not much would ever get written if it was true.

PeterL said:

You should consider taking acid.

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First I'd have to say that that is really bad advice, I'm not against people using drugs but it would be very silly to take something in order to do research for a novel.

PeterL said:

but I really don't think that it is possible to communicate the experience of tripping without tripping.

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Secondly, that amounts to the Courtier's Reply - it's perfectly possible to _imagine_ the effects of LSD without taking it. Drugs aren't _magic_, they don't let your brain do stuff it it can't do normally, they help it do stuff easier that you would have a hard time doing without drugs.

http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Courtier's_reply

RobinGBrown said:

First I'd have to say that that is really bad advice, I'm not against people using drugs but it would be very silly to take something in order to do research for a novel.

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Why do you consider that bad advice? The opening poster is the one who wants to know how to describe drug experiences, not me. If you want good advice, then you might consider the old "Write about what you know."

Secondly, that amounts to the Courtier's Reply - it's perfectly possible to _imagine_ the effects of LSD without taking it. Drugs aren't _magic_, they don't let your brain do stuff it it can't do normally, they help it do stuff easier that you would have a hard time doing without drugs.

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Since you will be writing fiction, why are you concerned about what something really is?

PeterL said:

You should consider taking acid. Actual pure LSD is perfectly safe, and the experience is good for the mental health of about 998 out of 1000 people.

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I agree this is bad advice. LSD is not perfectly safe. It's been proven to kickstart psychiatric disorders in vulnerable members of the population. What if you're person #999? Not worth it, IMO.

Any skilled writer can write anything outside his experience convincingly through research and observation.

ETA: PeterL - You have a fundamental but common misunderstanding of the adage "write what you know". It does NOT mean that if you've never taken an airplane you absolutely canNOT write convincingly about air travel. What it means is that whenever you relate an experience to the reader, tap the emotions and experiences that you HAVE had in the telling of the new experience. If the air travel character is afraid to fly, use something you're afraid of to relate the experience of fear. That's all the adage means.

CaroGirl said:

ETA: PeterL - You have a fundamental but common misunderstanding of the adage "write what you know". It does NOT mean that if you've never taken an airplane you absolutely canNOT write convincingly about air travel. What it means is that whenever you relate an experience to the reader, tap the emotions and experiences that you HAVE had in the telling of the new experience. If the air travel character is afraid to fly, use something you're afraid of to relate the experience of fear. That's all the adage means.

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You have a clear misunderstanding.

Tell me, Peter, if there were 500 handguns on a table and one was loaded, would you randomly pick one up, point it at your head and pull the trigger? Just for kicks, you know.

I worked security at a Grateful Dead concert once. It was a once in a lifetime experience to observe so many people, young, middle 20's, 30's, 40's and 50's, all in their own world. Some would sit or stand and stare int nothingness. Others would dance in circles. Another guy hopped wherever he went. They sang along with the band, but made up their own words. It was strange to the point that I was uneasy being around so many people so far disassociated with reality. That was the good part of the concert.

The bad part was the first aid station. There were so many people being treated for bumps, bruises, scrapes and cuts that they were lined up in the hall. Then came the bad trippers. We have six ambulances in the city and they were all in use transporting people to the psych ward via the emergency room. They just ran back and forth between the convention center and the hospital for hours. There had to be over 30 people who had to be taken out screaming about some unseen horror. And the band played on.

Bad acid? Maybe. Just plain bad trips? probably. Luckily, most of the people recovered when they came down from the trip. several didn't.