Vanity press ads in professional paying fiction mags

K_Woods · Apr 26, 2010

Cutting to the point: how common is this, and does it make anyone else uncomfortable? I don't mean advertisements for books self- or vanity-pubbed, but ads for the vanity publishers themselves.

I ask because yesterday I came across not one, but two of these in a magazine, and there might be more lurking in the pages that I missed. One was half-buried in the very back amid a slew of other ads, but it was the other one that caught my attention, in a quarter-page gray box with lettering the same size and different font from the magazine's content. And as soon as I read it I wanted to throw the magazine across the room.

I went and checked the other magazine I picked up on the same trip, and the only ads were for books put out either by the magazine's publisher or another small press. (I looked said press up, just to be sure, and it seems to check out.)

What really irked me was that the offending magazine is one that pays pro rates to their writers, and here they turn around and run ads that encourage paying to publish. Maybe I'm too idealistic, but that is a very uncomfortable thought.

(I don't feel comfortable naming either mag publicly, at least not right now. If it'd be proper to out the offender, I'll do so -- but I don't know if it is.)

Ineti · Apr 26, 2010

It's common, at least in the handful of magazines I read. I don't see it as a concern, really. Magazines need advertising dollars and probably aren't too worried about whether those dollars come from a vanity press or a major publishing house or from Joe or Jane Average who want to pay for ad space in the magazine.

KathleenD · Apr 26, 2010

I can remember seeing at minimum a "classified" ad in every magazine I read as a kid, so I don't think it's new. I also remember seeing more ads and realizing they were not real publishers as I learned more about the industry. It wasn't the magazines accepting more ads, it was me becoming more informed.

There's a connection between selling very expensive ads and paying premium rates to writers. As long as the ads are clearly ads, I'm in favor of the writer getting the most possible money

blacbird · Apr 26, 2010

These outfits pay the mag money for the ad. The mag doesn't very often turn down money.

The End.

caw

Deleted member 42 · Apr 26, 2010

It's an ad, which is a pretty hard thing to turn down. The magazines are hurting.

blacbird · Apr 26, 2010

The sad part isn't the mag accepting the ad. The sad part is that the ad is working, attracting dumbass victims like a pitcher plant, otherwise the advertising entity wouldn't have the money to pay for the ad.

caw

K_Woods · Apr 26, 2010

I know the magazines are hurting, and that's what really bothers me about this -- that it's gotten this bad. I went digging through some back issues of this publication and found that previous issues had vanity press ads buried in in the 'classified' (I suppose that is the best name for it) section of the magazine, but nothing as egregious as what I found last night. Now that the initial outrage has passed, I'm really worried; of the 3 magazines in this genre that I've gotten this month, this is the only one with vanity pub ads.

It might be stupid of me, but I keep wondering 'Why? And how representative is this of all print mags in the genre? And have I just been oblivious up until now?' It doesn't make it any less uncomfortable -- if anything, it makes it worse.

Ineti · Apr 26, 2010

K_Woods said:
Why?

It's all about money. One way to combat it, or at least help, is to subscribe to the magazines in question if you're not already doing so. Give gift subscriptions, encourage all your writer friends to subscribe.

shaldna · Apr 27, 2010

I don't understand why anyone would be uncomfortable about it. Or why the magazines are 'hurting' over it.

Vanity publishers are a business, and they pay for adds just like everyone else. Some people do choose to go down that route, and that's fine.

BenPanced · Apr 27, 2010

One publication used to run ads for vanity presses with a little blurb underneath for their reprint on vanity presses, essentially a warning on they operate. Now? I guess they don't want to insult the hand that feeds them.

Terie · Apr 27, 2010

shaldna said:
I don't understand why anyone would be uncomfortable about it. Or why the magazines are 'hurting' over it.

Magazines aren't 'hurting over it'. Magazines are hurting in the current conditions and therefore need whatever advertising they can get. I believe that was Medievalist's point.

shaldna · Apr 27, 2010

Terie said:
Magazines aren't 'hurting over it'. Magazines are hurting in the current conditions and therefore need whatever advertising they can get. I believe that was Medievalist's point.

Ah, got you now.

This conversation strikes me as being a bit silly to be honest. So what if a magazine runs an add for a vanity publisher? Sure, we can sit here and make comments about how 'bad' they are etc etc etc. But at the end of the day, it's no worse than a McD's add, or a Carlsberg commercial, is it?

K_Woods · Apr 27, 2010

Ineti said:
It's all about money. One way to combat it, or at least help, is to subscribe to the magazines in question if you're not already doing so. Give gift subscriptions, encourage all your writer friends to subscribe.

This is a mag I only pick up intermittently because it doesn't click with me enough to make me want to subscribe. I still don't, but now I'm not sure I want to give them any more of my money at all.

shaldna said:
This conversation strikes me as being a bit silly to be honest. So what if a magazine runs an add for a vanity publisher? Sure, we can sit here and make comments about how 'bad' they are etc etc etc. But at the end of the day, it's no worse than a McD's add, or a Carlsberg commercial, is it?

I'm not sure it can be equated with fast food (or whatever Carlsburg is if it isn't, I've never heard of them). On the other hand, we aren't talking about, say, Zynga, either. I was posting and asking partly because I was wondering how common this actually is, and if the predominant attitude about this kind of thing is "meh, business as usual" -- and that's what it looks like so far.

veinglory · Apr 27, 2010

Well, my own blog generally has a banner ad for a vanity press on it. I thought it over and decided that I was okay with it. After all the presses who have popped up so far are all ones I have bought books from at one time or another.

scope · Apr 27, 2010

What's the big deal? Although I have no use for vanity houses, what you suggest we do -- play big brother and ban them from advertising? Ban magazines from accepting ads from vanity publishers? What about all the other ads we see in magazines for all types of garbage? Our job, if we accept it, is to be wise consumers. Anyone opposed to certain types of ads could write the mag, express their views and tell the editors that because of same they will no longer purchase the magazine.

veinglory · Apr 27, 2010

There is a balance though. I would block a Publish America ad.

Claudia Gray · Apr 27, 2010

K_Woods said:
This is a mag I only pick up intermittently because it doesn't click with me enough to make me want to subscribe. I still don't, but now I'm not sure I want to give them any more of my money at all.

So, you feel bad that the magazine is in such dire straits that they have to take ads from advertisers you find unworthy, and therefore you intend to make sure they are going to be in even more dire straits?

veinglory · Apr 27, 2010

Fair or not, when I see a mag absolutely full of vanity press ads I assume it is aiming at newbies, not serious writers. E.g. look at the ads in Writers Journal versus Publishers Weekly.

scope · Apr 27, 2010

I just don't get this issue. If for any reason you don't like the contents (ads, literary contents--whatever) of a magazine you don't have to buy it.

Fulk · Apr 27, 2010

shaldna said:
This conversation strikes me as being a bit silly to be honest. So what if a magazine runs an add for a vanity publisher? Sure, we can sit here and make comments about how 'bad' they are etc etc etc. But at the end of the day, it's no worse than a McD's add, or a Carlsberg commercial, is it?

I suppose the difference is while fast food at worst might give you some indigestion (well, unless you make a daily meal of it), in the case of a vanity pub ad, an unsuspecting and aspiring young writer might fall into the trap and risk getting burned by the experience, as the anecdotes concerning Publish America illustrate all too well.

veinglory · Apr 27, 2010

Of course you can just not buy it. You can also talk about not liking it.

K_Woods · Apr 27, 2010

ClaudiaGray said:
So, you feel bad that the magazine is in such dire straits that they have to take ads from advertisers you find unworthy, and therefore you intend to make sure they are going to be in even more dire straits?

Would subscribing (or buying issues off the stand) be tacit approval of the blatant vanity pub ads? That's the question I'm turning over in my head (and one reason I haven't ruled it out completely yet); so far the answer is yes. To draw a comparison from another form of media, it would be akin to approving a game publisher's nightmarish DRM scheme by buying one of their games. I don't like that thought (and I don't touch such games with an eleven-foot pole, either). Granted, that might not be the best analogy, but it's the one that comes to mind.

And, as someone pointed out earlier, the magazines are free to run the ads they can, and I'm free to choose not to buy. Especially when there are other publications that don't do this, in the same genre, that I can spend my money on instead (and do).

I was thinking of writing a letter to the mag (as was suggested upthread) and seeing how that goes. More and more, though, I'm suspect I'm just weird for being bothered by this, much less to this degree. If so, will writing do any good? Or am I wasting my time and theirs?

Fulk said:
I suppose the difference is while fast food at worst might give you some indigestion (well, unless you make a daily meal of it), in the case of a vanity pub ad, an unsuspecting and aspiring young writer might fall into the trap and risk getting burned by the experience, as the anecdotes concerning Publish America illustrate all too well.

Bingo. At least the ad wasn't for PA.

scope · Apr 27, 2010

veinglory said:
Of course you can just not buy it. You can also talk about not liking it.

Okay.

shaldna · Apr 28, 2010

At the end of the day there are always people out there who will use a vanity publisher. Some just want a small run of books for themselves and family etc, so where else are they to go to do that?

Celia Cyanide · Apr 28, 2010

Fulk said:
I suppose the difference is while fast food at worst might give you some indigestion (well, unless you make a daily meal of it), in the case of a vanity pub ad, an unsuspecting and aspiring young writer might fall into the trap and risk getting burned by the experience, as the anecdotes concerning Publish America illustrate all too well.

Publish America is NOT a typical vanity press. What is wrong with Publish America is that they claim to be a "traditional publisher" when in fact they are a vanity press. The people who get their work "accepted" by Publish America believe they have a publication credit, when in fact they don't.

There is nothing wrong with vanity publishers who honest and upfront about what they do.

Vanity press ads in professional paying fiction mags

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