I am so confused

CraftyCreations411 · Apr 24, 2010

and lost to say the least.

I have read through many posts in many different sections here and I am more confused than when I started.

I decided to start my own thread and see if I can get the answers that are probably written somewhere I didn't think to look. I appreciate your patience and your advice.

I am currently working on a book but have no idea what secondary genre that it fits. I looked at the drop down menu and my book could fall into so many that I don't know where to go.

I spent 12 years in the Army. I loved it but I also hated it. I had lots of fun but during the time I was raped multiple times. I talk about the good times and the bad times. The book is mainly about my time in service with a flashback or two about my childhood.

Is my book: narrative nonfiction? memoir nonfiction? women's issues nonfiction? or military nonfiction?

What type of agent should I be looking for?

My next question is about pseudonyms. I NEED my book published under a pen name for safety reasons. I know that two of my perpetrators retired about 40 miles from me.

My biggest question is queries vs proposals. I've been to several websites that were set up by agents and sometimes they list only queries but from what I've read around here I need to do both.

Can you query more than one agent at a time?

Thanks for all your help.

Candy

triceretops · Apr 24, 2010

You can query more than one agent at a time. Go for the gusto.

This sounds like non-fic memoir or an autobiography. Maybe you can sub to all those questional sub-genres, or at least tell your agents up front exactly what you told us here, and add your query. Oh, and toss in five-ten first pages in the body of the email, as a sampler.

This story sounds well worth a read--a big thumbs up.

Tri

CraftyCreations411 · Apr 24, 2010

Thanks tri. Based on what I have read, if it doesn't fit an agents' thing, then I'll get one of those rejection things or never hear another word.

If I can get this published and it helps just one person then it will be well worth it. I'll start with the memoir and autobiography. It's just that those don't fit my definition as I always thought that memoirs and autobiographies were written about someone's entire life.

Confusion - a great state of mind! :e2shrug:

Candy

Bushrat · Apr 24, 2010

As far as I know, an autobiography or biography is an account of an entire life, while memoir is an autobiographical account of only a portion of a life. So yours would be a memoir, I would say.
As to the secondary genre - what is the main focus of your book? Do you focus on issues in the military, as seen by a female soldier, or is your focus on women's issues and as those played out while you were in the army?
Autobiographical books tend to be fuzzy and hard to fit into one slot; I'm wrestling with one myself

And it sure sounds like an interesting, probably eye-opening read what you've got there

CraftyCreations411 · Apr 24, 2010

while memoir is an autobiographical account of only a portion of a life

Okay, got it. My book would definitely fit that definition.

Do you focus on issues in the military, as seen by a female soldier, or is your focus on women's issues and as those played out while you were in the army?

I was basing the women's issues on rape in general. I know that if we told we could have ended up on some outlandish detail or the worst imaginable detail. Let me tell ya, the military has an evil imagination! If we sought help, we were told that perhaps we couldn't handle the military and superiors started looking for ways to force us out. If we said nothing, then we were marked as easy prey and men were free to do it over and over and over again.

So NO on the women's issues?

Candy

Bushrat · Apr 24, 2010

Hmmm...no, to me it sounds sounds like you do focus more on what it meant to be in the military as a woman. Not on what it meant to be in the miltary, period. But it's hard without knowing your book, of course.
If you have written about the majority of situations you found yourself in from the angle of being female, if that is an issue you deal at length with - different treatment from male soldiers, being a woman in the army as opposed to a civilian, then I'd say your secondary genre IS women's issues.
If you're focus is problems in the military in general, the life of soldiers (both sexes), and you just touch on what that meant for you as a woman here and there - then I'd say, military is your secondary genre.
:tongue

Fun, eh?!

CraftyCreations411 · Apr 24, 2010

Oodles and oodles of fun!

If you have written about the majority of situations you found yourself in from the angle of being female, if that is an issue you deal at length with - different treatment from male soldiers, being a woman in the army as opposed to a civilian, then I'd say your secondary genre IS women's issues.

You basically nailed it! As a woman, I was totally treated different. I remember when Congress got rid of the WACs and we became "soldiers," I can't count the number of time I heard, "Women don't belong in my ******** Army." or "This is a man's Army!" or my personal favorite, "They only got rid of the WACs because we [men] need new ****y"

I actually overheard a psychologist tell a woman that if she didn't want to get raped, she shouldn't have joined the military!

I have three problems.

First, I'm writing about the military and the military insists that things like rape and sexual assault do not occur. IF it happens then it was a misunderstanding or it's the woman's fault for being alone.

Second, if I query a male agent, what man wants to hear about a woman and her sexual escapades?

Third, if I get a female agent, is she going to get it published out of pity for me?

See what I'm trying to say? It's almost a no-win situation but I have come far enough that I'm going to do it.

One of the things that I am supposed to do is to list "similar titles." This is proving very difficult. I have found one book on the subject. "The Lonely Soldier..." by Helen Benedict. I'll get the book Monday but from what I have been able to ascertain is that Ms Benedict is a journalist who interviewed several women who had been raped or sexually assaulted and how they handled it. So far that is the only book that I have found that is like mine.

I have searched for others but so far it's either dealing with the military as women without any sex involved or the heroics of women in the military. Women in the military have it better than I did, although they have the same problems in admitting what happened to anyone. The military teaches "cover-up" like crazy.

Candy

Bushrat · Apr 24, 2010

CraftyCreations411 said:
I have three problems.

First, I'm writing about the military and the military insists that things like rape and sexual assault do not occur. IF it happens then it was a misunderstanding or it's the woman's fault for being alone.

Second, if I query a male agent, what man wants to hear about a woman and her sexual escapades?

Third, if I get a female agent, is she going to get it published out of pity for me?

I don't see it like that

1. That's the military's problem. As far as I understand, you're not with them anymore. I don't know if they bother ex-soldiers with law suits. It's a guys' world, I guess, and doesn't really surprise me that they stick to that dinosaur kinda mindset.

2. and 3. I don't see what gender has to do with picking an agent. Their interest is to make money, which will depend on the strength of your manuscript and they will judge it accordingly. Will they be able to place it, does it have a chance to sell? I don't see any agent wasting their time out of pity, because you're female, especially ugly or pretty or from Mars (well, being from Maers would be a good selling point). They have bills to pay and in order to do so, they need to sign writers with manuscripts that will sell. That's about all there is to it.

Just my 2 cents

CraftyCreations411 · Apr 25, 2010

You know Bushrat, you have a definite way with words. You've made me feel better. It's pure fear on my part and sometimes I need someone else to point it out. Thank-you!

It IS the military's problem and I totally agree. The majority of the men that were in while I was in and the WACs were dissolved, the men didn't know how to handle us.

I remember standing in formation one day while the First Sergeant was doing an inspection. He went down the lines saying, "You need a haircut. You need a haircut." and he told this to a quite a few people. Even I was one of them! At the close of the formation, he said that everyone who needed a haircut would stand formation at 1700 and everybody better have their hair "high and tight." After the formation, my platoon sergeant pulled him aside and said, "Top, most of those people are women! They don't have the same regulations for hair that we do."

Top looked at him, his eyebrows were raised in total shock, "WHAT? There's women here?" It was so funny.

I fully understand what you're saying about the gender and jobs of the agents, it's just the looks and comments that I get from some people that carry over to other things.

Candy

happywritermom · Apr 25, 2010

I just want to say kudos to you.
I hope you get this thing published.
One of my best friends and her sister were both raped in the Army back in the late 1980s/early 1990s. My friend was raped by her superior who dared her to report it (She didn't. She was terrified.) Her younger sister was in Korea when she was raped and the whole thing drove her over the brink mentally (He stalked her too). The Army declared her unfit to carry a gun, but did nothing to her perpetrator.
It's really, really sick what goes on in the Army.
I have a hard time believing any of that has changed.

CraftyCreations411 · Apr 25, 2010

I am sincerely hoping to get this published. I don't care what it takes, I will continue to try until I die and then leave word for one of my kids to keep it up.

The military has changed, not necessarily all for good. Unfortunately it's not just the Army. Two of the women in my group are from the Marines. One used to be an MP in the Army - I really feel for her.

I endured rapes from 1976 until 1988 when I got out. The Army said that I had an attitude problem. I snapped at everybody. I didn't care who they were. When I broke a colonel's ankle, blackened his eye, and broke 2 ribs, HE wanted me court-martialed. My CO knew the man and what he was capable of and talked me into getting out for a weight problem. She said that I would keep my benefits (VA) or I could go with the court-martial and probably do time at Leavenworth. I took her advice and got out with a weight problem.

I understand exactly how your friend and her sister feel. I don't know if they are getting counseling or not BUT most VA's have MST (Military Sexual Trauma) clinics where they would be entitled to receive the counseling for free. They can also file for disability from the VA for it.

When I, your friend, and her sister were in, you didn't dare say anything. If you did then the perpetrators and the superiors found ways to discredit you. It was our fault that we were raped. I believe that that is the major reason that these things go unreported.

I've accepted it now. I've finally convinced myself that it wasn't my fault and now I have a strong desire to get the word that if it has happened to any other person, it's important to realize that they are NOT alone.

Candy

Caroline · Apr 27, 2010

Candy,

I think you've got a very important story that needs to be told, and that, despite what you may think, a lot of people would be interested in. Military issues such as PTSD and sexual assualt are just now beginning to get the attention they deserve. Case in point--I just did a google search for "sexual assault in the military" and came up with articles in New York Times, CNN, CBS news, and C-SPAN. And that was just the first page.

Civilians are just now starting to wake up to the fact that the Army (and other branches) have been covering up assault for decades. The Army has even realized that these problems need to be dealt with, and has launched its I.Am Strong anti-assault campaign, as well as some preliminary PTSD coping classes (although I can't speak to their effectiveness.) Whenever a story even so much as hints at military coverup, people are interested. I think you'll find the right agent out there for you. And if an agent acts all weird because your story talks about assault, or says anything even remotely offensive, move on. That's not the kind of person you want to work with. A good agent will recognize that your story has value and potential.

And, I'm sure the Army will gripe and moan and deny anything you've said once your story gets published. But as Bushrat said, that's not your problem. Let them gripe.

CraftyCreations411 · Apr 28, 2010

Thanks Caroline. I am sorry that so many (even if it were one) that died to see something like this come to light. When I first started group therapy there was 3 or 4 now we're up to 11.

The military, not just the Army is fantastic in covering things up and when something is found out or they're squealed on, the first thing said is that it's not true. Then it becomes the victim's fault. "If she had not done this then..." "If she had not done that then..." "If she had reported then..."

There has been an increase in the number of reports but according to the Pentagon, there hasn't been an increase in the number of rapes.

My biggest fear about trying to get published is the attitude of the agents. I want to get my story out there, if for nothing else than to help ONE other person, but I don't want to hear "you poor thing." I want to be believed about something that is unbelievable.

I'll get it done, I have to get it done.

Thanks for your support.

Candy

Caroline · Apr 30, 2010

CraftyCreations411 said:
I'll get it done, I have to get it done.

Good for you, Candy.

And, just for the record, I agree with Bushrat. An agent's job is to make money selling books--not to publish projects because they feel sorry for someone. While I've never actually worked with an agent myself, I would imagine they'll be a lot more concerned with whether your book will sell than with trying to take pity on you (and if they do try to take pity on you, run.)

Good luck.

And BTW, the haircut story = LOL.

Twizzle · May 3, 2010

CraftyCreations411 said:
I have three problems.

First, I'm writing about the military and the military insists that things like rape and sexual assault do not occur. IF it happens then it was a misunderstanding or it's the woman's fault for being alone.

Second, if I query a male agent, what man wants to hear about a woman and her sexual escapades?

Third, if I get a female agent, is she going to get it published out of pity for me?

1. Let's be honest. This is an issue a publisher and agent will be concerned about. I'm sure you've heard of all the, well, issues about memoirs in the news. It's unfair-there's almost this sense of leeriness out there now, about memoirs as a whole. They seem held to a much higher standard-- legally, with craft.

But anyway, given that, I'd have to think any book accusing the U.S. govt of anything (never mind accusing others of comitting crimes) would have to go through some sort of req'd vetting-but I don't know. Perhaps that's something someone more knowledgeable can come along and address for you. It's certainly something, as a writer, I'd be following up on. The legal issues involved.

And a pseudonym-I don't know. Again, someone more knowledgeable needs to come along. I'm in the process of writing my own memoir, and I have heard people say it won't fly (again, it goes to that whole leeriness issue above) and your name can still get out-and in a lawsuit situation, very well would. But I'm not sure. Again. Seek someone who knows the answers for sure.

2. Rapes aren't sexual escapades. I'm sorry, but they're not.

Anyway, it's not just male agents who don't like to read about rape. I was just at a conference, and the panel was very clear-agents are humans with their own particular likes and dislikes. One agent in particular stated he didn't read rape stories, or child abuse stories, or stories with children dying. He also didn't like chick lit, mysteries, or anything too commercial. A female editor disagreed with some of his prefs. But he also said, those were HIS preference and she stated it was also hers and the world still revolves. Others didn't agree with either. My point? Some agents will. Some won't. They're readers, with their indiv preferences. Just like other readers. Read their guidelines, seek out comps and who sold them, but know it might be difficult. Because getting published is difficult, for everyone.

3. Let's be honest again. Agents don't sell books out of pity. Agents sell books to make money. They need to keep a roof over their heads and food in their mouths. One needs money for that.

Now some work in publishing because they love books too, they love championing good books, and it's a wonderful, squishy feeling inside when you can combine the two. But they all sign authors to sell their books for money.

So, my advice-seek out someone really knowledgeable and exp'd to answer those ques for you, esp on how to best protect yourself and your book. Also, do as much research as you can. Find the right agents, the right comps, and learn as much as you can about the craft and expectations of the memoir genre. And good luck, with everything.

DerekJager · May 4, 2010

A few thoughts based on your original post:
--
I spent 12 years in the Army. I loved it but I also hated it. I had lots of fun but during the time I was raped multiple times. I talk about the good times and the bad times. The book is mainly about my time in service with a flashback or two about my childhood.
----

I guess I'm not sure what the "point" of the book is? Consider these titles:

* Susan Brownmiller, Against Our Will: Men, Women, and Rape, 1975.
* Peter Karsten, Law, Soldiers, and Combat, 1977.
* George C. Rable, Civil Wars: Women and the Crisis of Southern Nationalism, 1989.
* Theodor Meron, Rape as a Crime Under International Humanitarian Law, American Journal of International Law, 87 (1993), pp. 424–28.
* Christine Chinkin, Peace and Force in International Law, in Reconceiving Reality: Women and International Law, ed. Dorinda G. Dallmeyer, 1993.
* Madeline Morris, By Force of Arms: Rape, War, and Military Culture, Duke Law Journal, 45, 1996, pp. 651–781
--

You served in the military more than 20 years ago; did you press charges then? Are your records available? As a male, I'm certainly aware that rape and abuse occurs. It's not like your story would be a shocking revelation. And as you state, it's not just the rape--it's also the "good/bad times" which are common to all soldiers.

So what is your hook, what would cause anyone to want to read your story? Also, what is compelling you to write the story now? (Maybe THAT'S the story?)

Go to Amazon and type in "rape military" and dozens of books show up. Sort through those and see how and why your story is different.

Good luck!

I am so confused

CraftyCreations411

triceretops

CraftyCreations411

Bushrat

reaching for the sun

CraftyCreations411

Bushrat

reaching for the sun

CraftyCreations411

Bushrat

reaching for the sun

CraftyCreations411

happywritermom

CraftyCreations411

Caroline

CraftyCreations411

Caroline

Twizzle

Cluck that.

DerekJager