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Toothpaste
04-26-2010, 08:33 PM
Guys, maybe there was a mistake made when it comes to her publication credits. She's saying she's not the person everyone was linking to, that her book with Grand Central is called Heart Shaped World, and she doesn't know what that other book is or who that other person is.

She's still totally in the wrong for being so childish on her blog, and calling people names (such actions are never acceptable, especially not in public), but maybe a real error has been made? Can anyone with google fu check this out?

Christine N.
04-26-2010, 08:35 PM
I was just thinking that same thing, that maybe there WAS a mistake. But I DO find it interesting that there's also a fake book cover with a fake GCP publication mark on it. I DID see the title of her book on her blog, but there's no link - not to the publisher, nor the book cover, not anything. Just a half a page blog.

There's no way I can believe that a big publisher like GCP would give her a hard time about errors in her book, spell her name wrong on the cover (though I'm sure it happens, they FIX stuff like that without complaint), and don't argue with authors over covers. Doesn't happen. And there's no way GCP's turnaround time is 6-8 months.

And if she really IS with GCP (and I doubt it, considering her writing samples),how is it she still doesn't have an agent? She might have been invited to submit, but at the first hint of a contract offer, she could have had her PICK of agents.

Something still smells like fish. Two and two is not five, no matter how hard you try.

Not ONLY that, but she says the 'book's not ready' and publication date has been pushed back, but if it's in the next three-four months, it SHOULD be on Amazon for pre-order, and it's not, but she says it's because it's not ready.

She really doesn't understand about publishing, and if she's fibbing she'd not doing a very good job.

Bubastes
04-26-2010, 08:40 PM
Guys, maybe there was a mistake made when it comes to her publication credits. She's saying she's not the person everyone was linking to, that her book with Grand Central is called Heart Shaped World, and she doesn't know what that other book is or who that other person is.

She's still totally in the wrong for being so childish on her blog, and calling people names (such actions are never acceptable, especially not in public), but maybe a real error has been made? Can anyone with google fu check this out?

On Amazon.com, GCP has books available for pre-order through February 2011. I didn't find any book with the title "Heart Shaped World" from GCP or any other publisher, at least on Amazon.com. If she has a book coming out, it certainly isn't this year, at least not under that title.

ETA: She won't say when the publication date is because it's "been delayed" so she can fix a few errors in the book. :Wha:

Cyia
04-26-2010, 08:42 PM
She says both that her book isn't ready and that it's on submission (she just got a partial request!). She's sinking in her own conflicting stories.

(TP, page back a bit and you'll find where someone did some Google Fu based on her blog posts and found her FB and then her PA book.)

KathleenD
04-26-2010, 08:44 PM
Cyia, I'm trying to decide if I love you for digging up the cache so I didn't have to... or if I need to sue you to get this hour back ;)

Parametric
04-26-2010, 08:44 PM
So I found a "Heart Shaped World" (http://www.linkinparkforums.com/showthread.php?t=13360) kicking around the internet. Right title, right down to the ungrammatical lack of a hyphen. Seems to be the right genre, romance. The writing style looks similar to my eyes. Plus the protagonist is a fan of the same musician the author is obsessed with - Chr*s Is**k.

gothicangel
04-26-2010, 08:50 PM
Well I've just checked out Grand Central and they have no title Heart Shaped World listed or slated for future release.

Toothpaste
04-26-2010, 08:50 PM
She says both that her book isn't ready and that it's on submission (she just got a partial request!). She's sinking in her own conflicting stories.

(TP, page back a bit and you'll find where someone did some Google Fu based on her blog posts and found her FB and then her PA book.)

Actually the claim is she has one book being published by Grand Central, and has another one that she is subbing to agents.

And I know that people did google fu and came up with he FB and PA stuff, but with the new information with the title of her book etc, I was hoping there was a way to actually prove she wasn't lying, and that indeed there had been a mistake. It doesn't take away from her lack of professionalism on the blog, but it would be nice to vindicate her name somewhat seeing as people have accused her of flat out lying and photoshopping Grand Central's logo on that book that she claims has nothing to do with her.

Parametric - any word if the book is being published by Grand Central?

scarletpeaches
04-26-2010, 08:52 PM
James is pissed off at this thread.
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss233/doriangrayspictures/JamesPurefoy30.jpg
He's gonna shoot someone.

Cyia
04-26-2010, 08:52 PM
So I found a "Heart Shaped World" (http://www.linkinparkforums.com/showthread.php?t=13360) kicking around the internet. Right title, right down to the ungrammatical lack of a hyphen. Seems to be the right genre, romance. The writing style looks similar to my eyes. Plus the protagonist is a fan of the same musician the author is obsessed with - Chr*s Is**k.

That seems to be a Linkin Park fansite. Is it real-person fanfic?

gothicangel
04-26-2010, 08:53 PM
So I found a "Heart Shaped World" (http://www.linkinparkforums.com/showthread.php?t=13360) kicking around the internet. Right title, right down to the ungrammatical lack of a hyphen. Seems to be the right genre, romance. The writing style looks similar to my eyes. Plus the protagonist is a fan of the same musician the author is obsessed with - Chr*s Is**k.

I just had to check out that link.

Listen Pet, if that landed on my desk I would have rejected you with a form letter after sentence one.

Celia Cyanide
04-26-2010, 08:56 PM
Cached version (http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:546MrGe6GRkJ:rejectionqueen.blogspo t.com/2010/04/death-to-publishing-world.html+Tales+from+a+rejection+queen,+viral&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a)

Looks like it caught quite a few comments, too. Including the ones outing her book as a GCP fake/PA book.

I don't see anything. Can someone help?

Christine N.
04-26-2010, 08:57 PM
No, that's not the same person, unless she's got a different email address...

Wait, I have to back up a few posts...oh yes, that fake GCP cover on FB. The profile has the SAME email address as the blog does, because in one of her comments somewhere someone wanted to talk to her and she gave them the address. this one, actually:
linky (https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=4259750138603059188&postID=4920953743867621471)

Matches the email on THIS FB account: (http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Jennifer-Edlund/111726901994?v=info&ref=ts)

Definitely her, she's trying some plausible deniability and it's not working. Just digging a bigger hole. I thought it might have been a mistake, but she didn't quite cover her tracks well enough.

Soccer Mom
04-26-2010, 08:57 PM
Parametric - any word if the book is being published by Grand Central?

The book is not listed at GC's website.

Parametric
04-26-2010, 08:58 PM
That seems to be a Linkin Park fansite. Is it real-person fanfic?

It's not RPF, as far as I can tell. Just your run-of-the-mill self-insert romance with a side order of pepper jack cheese (self-insert shares the author's unusual tastes).

Toothpaste, there's nothing on the thread about Grand Central. But while this was posted back in 2006, and four years is a long time in writing, I think if you read the first few paragraphs you'll be able to form a pretty strong opinion on its saleability.

Bubastes
04-26-2010, 09:02 PM
So I found a "Heart Shaped World" (http://www.linkinparkforums.com/showthread.php?t=13360) kicking around the internet. Right title, right down to the ungrammatical lack of a hyphen. Seems to be the right genre, romance. The writing style looks similar to my eyes. Plus the protagonist is a fan of the same musician the author is obsessed with - Chr*s Is**k.

"Heart Shaped World" is the name of Isaak's breakout album, so I'm not surprised there may be other stories by different authors floating around with the same title.

Toothpaste
04-26-2010, 09:06 PM
No, that's not the same person, unless she's got a different email address...

Wait, I have to back up a few posts...oh yes, that fake GCP cover on FB. The profile has the SAME email address as the blog does, because in one of her comments somewhere someone wanted to talk to her and she gave them the address. this one, actually:
linky (https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=4259750138603059188&postID=4920953743867621471)

Matches the email on THIS FB account: (http://www.facebook.com/#%21/pages/Jennifer-Edlund/111726901994?v=info&ref=ts)

Definitely her, she's trying some plausible deniability and it's not working. Just digging a bigger hole. I thought it might have been a mistake, but she didn't quite cover her tracks well enough.


Wow. That's very interesting. And amazing detective work. How did you do it?

And I must admit to being quite sad to discover that she's just simply lying. It's just . . . well I am stupidly optimistic about people. Sigh.

Christine N.
04-26-2010, 09:07 PM
I spent WAY too much time reading through the comments on her blog. But only the first page, I swear! Then someone posted the FB site and I just put it together.

Toothpaste
04-26-2010, 09:14 PM
And . . . she's just deleted the post where she gave the email address.

Unfortunately, we all saw it, and now we know just how aware she is of her own guilt in the matter. She's not crazy, she's manipulative.

(can anyone find the cached page for that old entry?)

Christine N.
04-26-2010, 09:16 PM
Yeah, then she said, 'who's email is that?' and I knew she had deleted it.

Too late, chicky. I wish the person who told her, hadn't. Now she's deleting any comment she doesn't like - ie: the truth.

I'd bet anything that FB goes private later or disappears altogether.

Bubastes
04-26-2010, 09:17 PM
She also deleted a comment calling her out on her book not being in GCP's 2010 catalog.

Christine N.
04-26-2010, 09:18 PM
She's sticking her fingers in her ears, saying "la la la, I can't hear you!"

The blog to her novel, Heart-Shaped World, has no entries. The profile says her name is Jennifer Edwards, which is obviously a pseudonym. There is no mention of a publisher, which, I don't know, most writers I know shout the name of their publisher from the rooftops and put up every scrap of information regarding the book's progress on their blog. Not that it's a requirement, but she puts enough energy into the rejection blog, you think she'd be excited for her novel and blog about that instead.

I can't decide if she's delusional or just painted herself into a corner and can't figure out how to get out.

Toothpaste
04-26-2010, 09:20 PM
Pity. Though I did find the cached "Alive and Kicking" page where it says at the bottom there are 6 comments, but when you open it it then has the new and improved 5.

What a horrible piece of work she is. Now I've gone from wanting to defend her honour, to really pissed off. The idea that she could possibly snag a publisher/agent with her dishonesty and cruelty, when there are all these hardworking honest authors out there . . .really gets my blood boiling . . .

Cyia
04-26-2010, 09:20 PM
And . . . she's just deleted the post where she gave the email address.

Unfortunately, we all saw it, and now we know just how aware she is of her own guilt in the matter. She's not crazy, she's manipulative.

(can anyone find the cached page for that old entry?)

Do you know what entry it was on? If so, google her blog name + the post title or date. That's how I found the cache for her viral post.

scarletpeaches
04-26-2010, 09:23 PM
I just read her latest blog entry.

Apparently negative attention from haters is better than no attention at all...and yes, we're haters. We're so, so jelouse. We want to be just like you, dear.

I've known people like her before. They take any form of attention as jealousy on the part of the other person or better than nothing, or some form of validation.

Listen, idiot: we're laughing at you, because every day you shoot yourself in the foot again. And if you're so happy with your poxy partial request, why call yourself the Rejection Queen?

Bubastes
04-26-2010, 09:26 PM
Heck, she said she got a contract a year and a half ago.

scarletpeaches
04-26-2010, 09:27 PM
I got a contract a month and a half ago. :D

Cyia
04-26-2010, 09:27 PM
I googled the FB email addy and found her Authonomy profile. Same profile pic.

https://www.authonomy.com/Profile.aspx?userid=e391d279-d259-4ef9-b5ab-3a7766cd8502

Toothpaste
04-26-2010, 09:28 PM
Wow, she's deleting evidence left right and centre. How disgusting.

Cyia - oddly I can find cached pages for many other of her blog entries, but not the "Alive and Kicking" one. Do you think you could give it a go?

Cyia
04-26-2010, 09:32 PM
Wow, she's deleting evidence left right and centre. How disgusting.

Cyia - oddly I can find cached pages for many other of her blog entries, but not the "Alive and Kicking" one. Do you think you could give it a go?

I tried.

Google Cache is pretty random. Sometimes it'll snag a specific page, other times it'll grab the face page. It seems like it's getting the face page for Alive and Kicking where it's listed with the other pages.

Christine N.
04-26-2010, 09:34 PM
wow, now she's saying the book was supposed to come out six months ago, and she got her contract a year and a half ago. Which would put her at one year publication time, still too fast for most of NYC. Originally her story was 6-8 months publication time. Yeah, we don't forget just because you change the story, dear.

And there's still no way GCP would have messed up the cover and not fixed it instantly, or given her a hard time about errors.

Still not in the catalog. Not there.

Delete the evidence, we still know. Oh well.

Cyia
04-26-2010, 09:38 PM
wow, now she's saying the book was supposed to come out six months ago, and she got her contract a year and a half ago. Which would put her at one year publication time, still too fast for most of NYC. Originally her story was 6-8 months publication time. Yeah, we don't forget just because you change the story, dear.

And there's still no way GCP would have messed up the cover and not fixed it instantly, or given her a hard time about errors.

Still not in the catalog. Not there.

Delete the evidence, we still know. Oh well.

Earlier, the excuse was that there she found too many errors in the book itself and it was being fixed/pushed back.

She needs to make notes so she can keep her excuses straight.

Christine N.
04-26-2010, 09:57 PM
Even pushed back it would be in the catalog or on the site, with an updated publication date.

Toothpaste
04-26-2010, 10:02 PM
I don't understand the "found errors" excuse. When I did my copy edits (2 rounds I believe) and then my galley proofs (2 rounds again), my job was to find errors. It was expected of me to find errors. What publisher would balk at having their author, when they went through their MS in this manner, pointing out errors? It's the reason copy edits and galley proofs exist.

Plus, when exactly did she find these errors? Since her book has yet to be published one would assume therefore it would be in either of those two stages which are perfectly suited to making changes. I could understand being upset if your book was published with lots of errors, but by then it's too late anyway, and, as she has repeatedly said, the book is not out for a while.

Christine N.
04-26-2010, 10:05 PM
Funnily enough, the person who she says she's not on FB and twitter is ALSO talking about how she's not happy with the book and release is delayed. That same 'imposter' really also seems to like Castle as much as rejection queen does (not a crime, could be coincidence, but after everything else, incriminating nonetheless)

Shovel some more of that sweet smelling fertilizer.

I mean really, Jennifer Edlund becomes Jenny Edwards? Not a huge stretch. I'm actually wondering which is the real name.

scarletpeaches
04-26-2010, 10:09 PM
Ooh! What's her twitter link?

*goes to look*

Christine N.
04-26-2010, 10:12 PM
check your rep comments. I didn't think it would be right to post the link here.

Terie
04-26-2010, 10:12 PM
Two people with the same first name, in the same county, with the same scheduled release date, with the same problems with their respective publishers discovered on the same date, with the same personal description containing the same grammatical mistakes are NOT the same person.

And I have some beach property in Kansas, if anyone is looking to buy.

scarletpeaches
04-26-2010, 10:13 PM
check your rep comments. I didn't think it would be right to post the link here.'S'okay, I got it.

God I love the internet.

Chumplet
04-26-2010, 10:23 PM
Our private critique group had a member who sucked us in with her stories about her violinist husband, then his death by car accident, then her celebrity 'friend' who co-wrote a television series with her & BBC picked it up, etc.

She wove a web of lies that got so tangled, one of us finally called her on it. The shit really hit the fan, and she exploded into a million pieces right before our eyes. She called us every name in the book, said we were just jealous, then disappeared into the mist.

We later found out she had stolen another writer's work in order to get into the group. We also found out the violinist 'husband' was alive and well and had never heard of her. Not to mention the celebrity actor who also didn't know her. She claimed he'd invited her to accompany him on the red carpet at the BAFTAs, but she had only won tickets from his fan club. She posted pictures. Of course he was always 'off camera'.

We still saw evidence of her on other boards, where she continued to fool others into thinking she had connections, a big contract, celebrity friends, etc.

This Jenny person seems to suffer from the same attention-getting delusions, and was quite clever covering her tracks. However, when challenged, she reacts with vitriol. Not surprised at all.

Parametric
04-26-2010, 10:30 PM
My other writing group had Six Book Deal Guy, who claimed that Tor flew him out to NYC to offer him the titular six-book deal. :rolleyes:

edit: A few more details of his story I'd forgotten ...

(1) This person claims to have made a fortune and retired by 25.
(2) He sent his unfinished first-draft novel, the first part of a trilogy, directly to a number of publishers, including one who doesn't even take unsolicited submissions.
(3) T*r, H*rperCollins and D*W all called him with offers.
(4) He flew to NY to meet them, whereupon they were amazed by his youth and, I kid you not, fashion sense.
(5) He then rejected the six-book deal because Tor wanted him to make revisions.

:ROFL:

MargoWest
04-26-2010, 10:37 PM
Wait, someone found her Twitter? Could somebody rep it to me? I've actually read this woman's blog sporadically for like a year, wondering when it would make the rounds. Guess it finally happened.

Marian Perera
04-26-2010, 10:38 PM
My other writing group had Six Book Deal Guy, who claimed that Tor flew him out to NYC to offer him the titular six-book deal.

What was the group's response?

And could someone please rep me the Twitter link too?

crazynance
04-26-2010, 10:43 PM
Apparently, what she should be publishing is her blog, because it sounds highly entertaining, in a dark way. Or she could make the writer of the blog the MC in her next novel and make the rest a copy of her blog! Instant Nano-novel.

MargoWest
04-26-2010, 10:44 PM
I feel kind of sorry for her because I can see how this seemed like a cute idea, but it went too far. And the anonymity was DEFINITELY not done well enough.

Parametric
04-26-2010, 10:47 PM
What was the group's response?

We used his claims as a teaching aid for our newer and less clueful members. ;)

Marian Perera
04-26-2010, 10:59 PM
An anonymous person has been quizzing her in the comments section of her latest post and now she says the cover is just what she wanted.

It'll be interesting to see how complex the (self)deception gets.

Bubastes
04-26-2010, 11:03 PM
Lesson learned: keep the lies in the WIP and out of real life.

Cyia
04-26-2010, 11:19 PM
In a very scary way, she's the poster child for "Author: the Role Playing Game". Her blog has become a mini-PAMB of sorts where all the posts with genuine information get popped over to the cornfield. She even does that weird thing where her answers stay up, but the posts to which they apply are gone.

Christine N.
04-26-2010, 11:22 PM
and really, 15,000 print run? Maybe I'm missing something, isn't that very low for a big press, even for a debut author? It sounds low to me.

gothicangel
04-26-2010, 11:34 PM
and really, 15,000 print run? Maybe I'm missing something, isn't that very low for a big press, even for a debut author? It sounds low to me.

No. The average first print run is 1,000 to 3,000. The first print run of HP was 1000.

Christine N.
04-26-2010, 11:35 PM
Really? Was that in the UK or the US? I was thinking that US first runs are bigger than that.

And here's something interesting - I don't recall seeing a name on the blog a few days ago, but now the "Jenny Edwards" name IS on the blog.

If she uses that as a pseudonym, someone is going to google it and find the blog. Some agent, some day. She's trying hard, but not helping herself at all.

christwriter
04-26-2010, 11:43 PM
:popcorn:

I really need to either go revise stuff or finish cleaning my apartment, but ... damn. I've caused forum drama before. You stop going for a couple of days, you calm down, you apologize, and then you move on. You don't delete ****ing everything, because then somebody starts posting screenshots on drama sites and more people show up to laugh.

The fake blog for the book made me snort soda up my nose. I do more than that on my DA site when I'm NOT writing.

There is no shame in needing medication to manage your moods, sweetie. Take. Your. Meds.

:popcorn:

shadowwalker
04-27-2010, 12:46 AM
There is no shame in needing medication to manage your moods, sweetie. Take. Your. Meds.

Being a drama queen does not automatically equate in any way to needing medication.

scarletpeaches
04-27-2010, 12:48 AM
And there ain't enough ritalin in the world to tackle some drama llamas' problems...

Wayne K
04-27-2010, 01:03 AM
I'll never forgive her for what she said about Nathan :D

Christine N.
04-27-2010, 01:09 AM
Really, right? I'll bet this nutter doesn't even READ the blogs of the agents she trashes, or else she'd know Nathan Bransford is one of the nicest, most author-friendly agents out there. Champion of the little guy, goes-out-of-his-way to help the unpublished.

Which he doesn't have to do, but does anyway.

Sheesh.

scarletpeaches
04-27-2010, 01:10 AM
I'll never forgive her for what she said about Nathan :DHe's a good looking fella, I'll say that for him.:D

christwriter
04-27-2010, 01:54 AM
Being a drama queen does not automatically equate in any way to needing medication.

No, but sometimes a short fuse can be a symptom of depression (or something like it). I went through a phase somewhat similar not too long ago. I got hit by personal stuff, bad work environment, poor nutrition and the flu in the space of two weeks and spent the next month in a very bad place. You blow out your emotional reserves (aka brain chemistry), you can get really stupid, really fast. The stuff she wrote in her blog sounds a lot like the stuff I started writing before I went and got help. An artificial reserve that keeps you from being an ass on the internet is better than no reserve at all.

I'd feel a whole lot of sympathy for her, if she weren't apparently lying about ... well, at this point, everything.

Wayne K
04-27-2010, 01:56 AM
He's a good looking fella, I'll say that for him.:D
Yer dead right he is :D

Phaeal
04-27-2010, 02:08 AM
A related syndrome, specific to medical and support groups, is called Munchhausen's by Internet, in which the dramatic one feigns having a particular illness in order to garner sympathy from the legit members of the group.

I hope Jenny's not faking her rejections at least!

;)

CaroGirl
04-27-2010, 02:10 AM
I hope Jenny's not faking her rejections at least!

;)
I'm comforted by the fact I don't have to fake my rejections. *sigh*

Wayne K
04-27-2010, 02:16 AM
I don't have to--I have so many to choose from

Devil Ledbetter
04-27-2010, 02:38 AM
I'm comforted by the fact I don't have to fake my rejections. *sigh*I've never had to fake mine. They come very easily to me.

Shady Lane
04-27-2010, 02:46 AM
Really? Was that in the UK or the US? I was thinking that US first runs are bigger than that.

And here's something interesting - I don't recall seeing a name on the blog a few days ago, but now the "Jenny Edwards" name IS on the blog.

If she uses that as a pseudonym, someone is going to google it and find the blog. Some agent, some day. She's trying hard, but not helping herself at all.

15,000 is on the low side for a REPORTED print run. remember publishers inflate these numbers before they announce them to make it sound like a book has more interest than it really does. 15,000 for an ACTUAL print run is totally respectable. though if it were an actual and not a reported, she should NOT be sharing it. but, well...you know....

Cyia
04-27-2010, 02:49 AM
A related syndrome, specific to medical and support groups, is called Munchhausen's by Internet, in which the dramatic one feigns having a particular illness in order to garner sympathy from the legit members of the group.

I hope Jenny's not faking her rejections at least!

;)

And when it inevitably runs its course, they usually have a "friend" post the sad news that the person has tragically succumbed to the condition.

Check out some of the archives on places like Fandom Wank. Such behavior has its own place on the scorecard. It usually starts with an injury or emergency trip to the ER which makes the person unavailable to answer questions for days.

I was a member of a fanboard that went belly-up a couple of years ago when the woman running it came under fire for misplacing/misusing funds entrusted to her. (tens of thousands of dollars here) Within hours of being outted by different people who didn't know others had given her money (none of which was mine, thankfully), she started with the excuses including theft, blaming her bank going under, blaming her upbringing to shrugging it off as inconsequential. Then she and her friends had all manner of medical emergencies, begging for sympathy and support.

It was a grotesquely fascinating implosion to witness. And it's scary that it was a "textbook" case of the behavior pattern.

Gravity
04-27-2010, 03:24 AM
And when it inevitably runs its course, they usually have a "friend" post the sad news that the person has tragically succumbed to the condition.

Check out some of the archives on places like Fandom Wank. Such behavior has its own place on the scorecard. It usually starts with an injury or emergency trip to the ER which makes the person unavailable to answer questions for days.

I was a member of a fanboard that went belly-up a couple of years ago when the woman running it came under fire for misplacing/misusing funds entrusted to her. (tens of thousands of dollars here) Within hours of being outted by different people who didn't know others had given her money (none of which was mine, thankfully), she started with the excuses including theft, blaming her bank going under, blaming her upbringing to shrugging it off as inconsequential. Then she and her friends had all manner of medical emergencies, begging for sympathy and support.

It was a grotesquely fascinating implosion to witness. And it's scary that it was a "textbook" case of the behavior pattern.

Sounds a little like the "Shemp" saga on the old PA boards. He was fun, in an outhouse-rat-crazy kind of way.

Margarita Skies
04-27-2010, 03:36 AM
I don't think she's getting any sympathy for all the nonsense that she's posted on her... ehem, ehem...blog, at least not my sympathy.

Manuel Royal
04-27-2010, 04:01 AM
Reading that blog makes me feel so much at sea. So far I've only submitted short stories, but I've got some novels planned. Queries, agents, more queries -- I haven't moved into that world of frustration yet; it's like a country I've only heard about.

Some of the stories about the endless rocky road to publication make me think actually writing the book is the easy part. But even if it turns out to be that rough, I hope I'll just keep working on being a better writer, and not spend my time bitching and badmouthing people in the business.

scarletpeaches
04-27-2010, 04:05 AM
All that energy spent bitching about the world being against her would have been better spent on improving her attitude first and her writing second.

Cranky
04-27-2010, 04:07 AM
All that energy spent bitching about the world being against her would have been better spent on improving her attitude first and her writing second.

Yeah, but that's, like, WORK.

shadowwalker
04-27-2010, 04:12 AM
No, but sometimes a short fuse can be a symptom of depression (or something like it).

It could indeed - but assuming someone with a rotten disposition is depressed and in need of medication is a strong leap. Gives those who really are MI a bad rep (again)...

christwriter
04-27-2010, 04:40 AM
A related syndrome, specific to medical and support groups, is called Munchhausen's by Internet, in which the dramatic one feigns having a particular illness in order to garner sympathy from the legit members of the group.

I hope Jenny's not faking her rejections at least!

;)
...yeah, good point. I'll go slink back into mah hole, now.

*sincerely hopes that ain't pointed in my direction, BTW.*

Giant Baby
04-27-2010, 05:11 AM
The rejections are real. I've got several of 'em. :D

And I can definitely vouch for my agent's, from the wording of the form right down to his sig.

She seemed to be having a pretty good time with this earlier today, but with the adrenaline that spikes with that degree of attention, there's usually a crash, followed by some level of exhaustion. Hopefully it that's the case, she'll move on to a place when she climbs back up where she's ready to learn something. If not, meh. I love my fellow writers, but I'm not exactly looking for more competition in the trenches. (Smooches, all!)

I left a comment a couple of weeks ago on the last post that's still up prior to today's, politely recommending she cut the crap. I've felt badly about that this weekend, seeing as how she self-e'sploded all over the interwebs shortly thereafter. But then she re-emerged. And started typing.

Needless to say, I'm feeling better about it now.

kaitie
04-27-2010, 02:56 PM
Really, right? I'll bet this nutter doesn't even READ the blogs of the agents she trashes, or else she'd know Nathan Bransford is one of the nicest, most author-friendly agents out there. Champion of the little guy, goes-out-of-his-way to help the unpublished.

Which he doesn't have to do, but does anyway.

Sheesh.

Seriously. I had to cringe at thinking that these people she's skewering are the ones who are nice and working hard for us to give us information. It's just messed up.

As for the Grand Central Publishing book, let's not forget that GCP only takes agented material. She states clearly that she would have preferred to have an agent before she signed the contract (it's in the comments), so she's basically claiming to have somehow gotten in with a publisher that wouldn't even have read her material.

The saddest thing about this is just how poorly constructed the lies are. She should have at least picked a smaller publisher or one that accepts unagented manuscripts.

I think whoever said it before had the best advice. If I were her I'd just fess up (or just close down the entire thing) and then try to learn as much as she can about the industry. Hell, I know I'm a pretty nice person, but if she came out and told the truth and apologized (not even to us, but to the agents and people who she has behaved so badly toward. seriously, very, very unfair to them) I'd be willing to forgive her.

Hopefully she's learning something from all of this beyond how to be a better liar. I definitely think she's in over her head at this point, though, and not quite sure how to make her way back out.

Phaeal
04-27-2010, 05:10 PM
Someone who could lie well enough to get away with it over any appreciable period of time would not be wasting her time on Internet whinging -- she'd go into politics.

Mr Flibble
04-27-2010, 07:19 PM
Well someone's been looking at this thread from the blog.

Tut tut - I thought you all wrote serious literary masterpieces what will live forever, not soft-core porn. And how could you be so very subservient to your agents? Shame on you all.

Terie
04-27-2010, 07:24 PM
Well someone's been looking at this thread from the blog.

Tut tut - I thought you all wrote serious literary masterpieces what will live forever, not soft-core porn. And how could you be so very subservient to your agents? Shame on you all.

Yeah, I just saw that. My commercial YA publisher will be interested to know that my books they published are, er, soft-core porn. That one chaste kiss..... :roll:

Namatu
04-27-2010, 07:31 PM
You're trying to get me to go back to her blog, aren't you? Will resist the temptation. I'm busy writing my pron of the day.

Mr Flibble
04-27-2010, 07:37 PM
That one chaste kiss.

Only one. Hmm maybe I am writing porn then. My first has four kisses. Four! I'm obviously a pervert out to corrupt my readers into debauchery.






Although admittedly the next one out is, um, graphic. I wrote it as an exercise in whether I could.::D

Christine N.
04-27-2010, 07:41 PM
I won't even bother. I know it'll be blocked from work. And her 'real' identity writes Romance, so...is she the pot or the kettle?

That 'soft-pr0n' pays the bills for some, sweetie. Or is that selling out? Yeah, I bet you think it is- the whole 'it's better to be a starving artist and true to myself than being a whore to the industry for cash' thing. Hey, whatever, I've seen it before.

And we're so subservient to agents, one of which she is increasingly desperate to get? Or else why the blog at all? Ridiculous.

I don't have an agent, and I write YA. Five books. Three publishers, some with advances. And monthly or quarterly checks. Do I still want an agent? Hell yeah! Do I understand the business and that it's not personal when I get rejections? Absolutely.

Is this woman a train wreck? Most definitely.

I can't wait to get home to look.

Giant Baby
04-27-2010, 07:46 PM
Well, to be fair, it was actually her sock puppet who made the claim...

Terie
04-27-2010, 07:49 PM
I can't wait to get home to look.

Oh, let's make it easy on you. Here you go:


It's interesting that the more self righteous people who are trashing you on the Absolute Write thread are either unpublished or are authors of softcore porn novels. Sickening to see how these would be/so called writers are so subservient to any and all literary agents.

Oh, and since this commenter is lurking: I'm NOT EITHER subservient to any and all literary agents; I'm only subservient to mine, who happens to be one of the top guys in NYC. :D

Bubastes
04-27-2010, 07:51 PM
Funny how the commenter assumes so many people on AW are unpublished. And he/she knows this how? Not all of us advertise our pubs in our sig lines.

eqb
04-27-2010, 07:55 PM
Ms. Trainwreck's flailing has reached Fandom Wank:

http://www.journalfen.net/community/wank_report/518.html?replyto=4829190

Note: Both Jennifers announced 15,000 copy print runs. Both announced sales the same month. Both had cover art problems. Both claimed delays because of errors in the text. Both are freelance writers who have sold articles about relationships to the same online magazines. They even have the same email address.

But they aren't the same person, oh no.

Toothpaste
04-27-2010, 08:02 PM
Shouldn't take the bait, but it is so easy and straightforward to dispute . . .

To the fabulous anon who thinks we all write porn or are unpublished:

Dude, I write children's books. And am published all over the world. Just FYI.

RedRajah
04-27-2010, 08:09 PM
There was an anonymous poster trolling Jim Hines' LJ that's doing a damn good impression of her as well.

(Dollars to donuts, it's her as well, but one must try to be generous at least)

incognitopress
04-27-2010, 08:14 PM
:D I wasn't going to add more fuel to this fire, but that soft-core porn comment on her site made me laugh out loud...have you guys seen Jennifer's proposed cover(s) on Facebook? I mean, what exactly is that woman's mouth doing to that gun? LMAO.... I actually thought maybe it WAS porn.
Methinks one doth protest too much here...projecting much, Jenny? Come on, I KNOW you're reading this, lol... is she just blowing the smoke away, or about to shoot some blanks, lmao
Don't look if you don't wanna know (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Jennifer-Edlund/111726901994?ref=ts#!/photo.php?pid=5327511&id=111726901994)

eqb
04-27-2010, 08:26 PM
The next step is for Jennifer to post all about her new agent. She won't post the agent's name, but she will spin a lovely fantasy about submitting to publishers, the auction, and that pre-empt offer. Then, when she can't string out the fantasy any longer, one of her sockpuppets will report how Jenny died tragically and the book couldn't be published after all.

So sad.

Momento Mori
04-27-2010, 08:40 PM
eqb:
The next step is for Jennifer to post all about her new agent. She won't post the agent's name, but she will spin a lovely fantasy about submitting to publishers, the auction, and that pre-empt offer.

Nah. Judging from her blog posts what will happen is that some agent from an uber agency will have read about this kerfuffle, loved Jenny's up-and-at-em attitude and writing style and offered her representation, including pitching a book based on her rejection experiences.

She will commence writing this book, which will go to auction and sell in a 7 figure deal, with movie option rights sold thereafter in a production deal with Steven Spielberg with Sandra Bullock to star as Jenny.

Tragically, soon after life starts to go so perfectly, she is knocked over while on her way to a meeting with her publicist by a wahmbulance that was taking a corner too quickly. Unfortunately, it leaves her in a coma and requiring a kidney transplant. Sadly the only viable donor turns out to be a soft-core porn writing member of AW who is such a toady-bug that she refuses.

Poor Jenny succumbs to her injuries.

Fin.

DeadlyAccurate
04-27-2010, 08:59 PM
The next step is for Jennifer to post all about her new agent. She won't post the agent's name, but she will spin a lovely fantasy about submitting to publishers, the auction, and that pre-empt offer. Then, when she can't string out the fantasy any longer, one of her sockpuppets will report how Jenny died tragically and the book couldn't be published after all.

So sad.

Already:


I don't know. But these agents are responding left and right to my queries all of a sudden. IT'S RAINING AGENTS!

KathleenD
04-27-2010, 09:12 PM
Where is the line between soft and hard when it comes to pr0n? I want to be sure I'm on the proper side of that line.

Momento Mori
04-27-2010, 09:13 PM
And of course ...

In a dramatic closing credits sequence for the Showtime movie of Jenny's tragic story, thousands of rejected writers gather spontaneously at Central Park, all bearing copies of the the rejection letters and slips that they've received over their writing careers. As the sun sets over Manhattan, they each set light to their rejections, holding them aloft and swaying in time to an a cappella rendition of Paperback Writer by the Beatles.

As the ashes drift towards the offices of the big agents, they all lament their previous cruelty and rush down to Central Park to offer representation, cookies and bitter salty tears of woe for the evil that they've caused.


KathleenD:
Where is the line between soft and hard when it comes to pr0n?

I was going to make a joke about it being roughly 8 inches from where your imagination starts, but I just can't make it work right ... :)

MM

emilycross
04-27-2010, 09:18 PM
And of course ...

In a dramatic closing credits sequence for the Showtime movie of Jenny's tragic story, thousands of rejected writers gather spontaneously at Central Park, all bearing copies of the the rejection letters and slips that they've received over their writing careers. As the sun sets over Manhattan, they each set light to their rejections, holding them aloft and swaying in time to an a cappella rendition of Paperback Writer by the Beatles.

As the ashes drift towards the offices of the big agents, they all lament their previous cruelty and rush down to Central Park to offer representation, cookies and bitter salty tears of woe for the evil that they've caused.



I was going to make a joke about it being roughly 8 inches from where your imagination starts, but I just can't make it work right ... :)

MM

wow MM, that's pretty good.


you should be a writer ;)

willietheshakes
04-27-2010, 09:26 PM
Where is the line between soft and hard when it comes to pr0n?

I think the answer is in the question...

Parametric
04-27-2010, 09:29 PM
Well, to be fair, it was actually her sock puppet who made the claim...

Meatpuppet, I suspect. The anon's spelling and grammar are quite inoffensive (although there seems to be a national hyphen shortage), so I doubt it's the same person.

CheekyWench
04-27-2010, 09:30 PM
And of course ...

In a dramatic closing credits sequence for the Showtime movie of Jenny's tragic story, thousands of rejected writers gather spontaneously at Central Park, all bearing copies of the the rejection letters and slips that they've received over their writing careers. As the sun sets over Manhattan, they each set light to their rejections, holding them aloft and swaying in time to an a cappella rendition of Paperback Writer by the Beatles.

As the ashes drift towards the offices of the big agents, they all lament their previous cruelty and rush down to Central Park to offer representation, cookies and bitter salty tears of woe for the evil that they've caused.



I was going to make a joke about it being roughly 8 inches from where your imagination starts, but I just can't make it work right ... :)

MM

Maybe it's because I write so much s0ft cor3 pr0n, but that made me LOL for real.

nkkingston
04-27-2010, 09:46 PM
That 'soft-pr0n' pays the bills for some, sweetie. Or is that selling out? Yeah, I bet you think it is- the whole 'it's better to be a starving artist and true to myself than being a whore to the industry for cash' thing.

But, but... writing porn is being true to myself! Though it's not paid any bills yet.

But what do I know? My handful of acceptances obviously don't confer royal status in the same way a slew of rejections do.

eqb
04-27-2010, 09:48 PM
As the ashes drift towards the offices of the big agents, they all lament their previous cruelty and rush down to Central Park to offer representation, cookies and bitter salty tears of woe for the evil that they've caused.

If we're soft-pron writers, shouldn't we add an orgy scene at the end? Tastefully done, of course, with everything behind a gauzy curtain so the naughty bits don't appear onscreen.

Cyia
04-27-2010, 09:52 PM
If we're soft-pron writers, shouldn't we add an orgy scene at the end? Tastefully done, of course, with everything behind a gauzy curtain so the naughty bits don't appear onscreen.

Nah. That's what euphemisms are for.

eqb
04-27-2010, 09:56 PM
Throbbing staff of manhood, sweet juicy cumquat, the heady elixer of their passion leaving traces on their lips and skin...

Like that?

Mr Flibble
04-27-2010, 10:04 PM
Blue veiny yoghurt pumper...sorry that was another thread

So if these agents are, as she's kinda implying. requesting cos of her blog, they will probably be disppointed to learn her book isn't with Grand Central, right? I wonder what her excuse will be?

See at one point I did feel sorry for her, because I've had my moments where me and reality aren't on speaking terms. But she hasn't learnt anything from the last few days?

LOG
04-27-2010, 10:18 PM
Anyway, if anymore haters post comments on my blog...it will be deleted. That's all I got to say about that.
Must. Resist. Temptation.

Calla Lily
04-27-2010, 10:21 PM
Throbbing staff of manhood, sweet juicy cumquat, the heady elixer of their passion leaving traces on their lips and skin...

Like that?

Flute of love.

Lock thread.


Srsly, now she's claiming that after reading her rip new orifices in several well-known, truly wonderful, helpful, big agents--other agents are clamoring for her speshul treatment?

That must be why it took me so long to land an agent. I was, yanno, professional about it.

eqb
04-27-2010, 10:21 PM
Blue veiny yoghurt pumper...sorry that was another thread

*snarf*


So if these agents are, as she's kinda implying. requesting cos of her blog, they will probably be disppointed to learn her book isn't with Grand Central, right? I wonder what her excuse will be?

That's where the scenario MM and I posited comes into play. She can't keep up the pretense, not with any legit agent, so there has to come a time when she fakes her own death through sock- or meat-puppets.

For an extreme example, check out this story (http://wiki.fandomwank.com/index.php/The_Ms._Scribe_Story).

Cyia
04-27-2010, 10:28 PM
Must. Resist. Temptation.


Don't bother. It's just another lie. Plenty of negative comments went up after that, but she just deleted them and played the innocent victim game.

The sad thing is, I'm starting to think she believes most of her own ramblings.

Namatu
04-27-2010, 10:36 PM
Blue veiny yoghurt pumperYou're killing me.

Mr Flibble
04-27-2010, 10:40 PM
That's where the scenario MM and I posited comes into play. She can't keep up the pretense, not with any legit agent, so there has to come a time when she fakes her own death through sock- or meat-puppets.

For an extreme example, check out this story (http://wiki.fandomwank.com/index.php/The_Ms._Scribe_Story).

Good stories they were too. Only she'd have to be pretty convincing to fake a death NOT on the net, ya know. And then she'd have no one to brag too :D


Oh and :crazy: to that story you linked

Calla Lily
04-27-2010, 10:42 PM
*is very glad I don't eat yogurt. Very glad*

Soccer Mom
04-27-2010, 11:57 PM
Now I want everyone to stop putting pr0n in this thread and writing things like "one-eyed willy the wonder worm" and "cucumber of desire" and "purple-helmeted warrior of love" because those things just aren't professional and have no place in a forum for writers.

Thank you.

And whatever you do, don't go read THIS (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87833&highlight=river+love)old thread in the writing erotica forum. Cause it contains everyone's least favorite words.

Cyia
04-28-2010, 12:02 AM
And also they make Larry the Cucumber cry buckets.

Christine N.
04-28-2010, 12:27 AM
Just in case Jenny happens by, here's another bit of info that gave her up. On March 29th, she writes on the blog
My novel first will be officially published next month.

Which, the Jennifer Edlund FB backs up with: "April 15th is the day!"

THEN, amazingly, BOTH Jennys have 'problems' with their books and they're pushed back.

Lady, look. Your done. Outed. Grand Central Publishing would NOT have problems as you describe ONE MONTH before release. Not that it couldn't happen, but one month until drop is the time when the publisher is gathering releases and PRINTING BOOKS. The time for mistakes is long past, and that book wouldn't have gone to print unless it was pretty damn near perfect.

PA on the other hand, totally can believe it.

Just fess up already, 'cuz this isn't going away. And leave Jim Hines alone - he might write you into his next book.

scarletpeaches
04-28-2010, 12:34 AM
Now I want everyone to stop putting pr0n in this thread and writing things like "one-eyed willy the wonder worm" and "cucumber of desire" and "purple-helmeted warrior of love" because those things just aren't professional and have no place in a forum for writers.

Thank you.

And whatever you do, don't go read THIS (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87833&highlight=river+love)old thread in the writing erotica forum. Cause it contains everyone's least favorite words.Point taken, Oh Gracious Mod.

In my defence, I'm only here to take notes for my next opus, "Mr Cummings and His One-Eyed Bollock-Yoghurt Shotgun."

You will buy it, won't you? :(

tjwriter
04-28-2010, 12:35 AM
:nothing

Bubastes
04-28-2010, 12:36 AM
Flute of love.

Lock thread.



Heck, as long as we're talking "flute of love," we might as well toss in the rest of the band (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88553&page=9) (conversation starts at post #207).

tjwriter
04-28-2010, 12:38 AM
I was going to make a joke about it being roughly 8 inches from where your imagination starts, but I just can't make it work right ... :)

MM

And here I held back on a raunchy reply early to this statement.

I feel so let down. After the yogurt thing, I knew I should have gone for it.

:D

scarletpeaches
04-28-2010, 12:43 AM
Oh, and apparently REALLY SUCCESSFUL authors don't have time to carry out investigations into people, nor even maintain a blog.

When Madam is REALLY SUCCESSFUL she won't have time to do this shit any more. :rolleyes:

Christine N.
04-28-2010, 12:52 AM
And obviously she doesn't really understand that really successful authors are, in part, successful because they DO maintain a blog and reach out to their readers.

Yeah, she's got clue none.

scarletpeaches
04-28-2010, 12:54 AM
*wonders if it's too late to change 'cock' to 'shiny purple-headed Right Honourable Member for Underpantsshire' in her novel...*

Soccer Mom
04-28-2010, 01:07 AM
Oh, it's never too late to make things right, Peachy!

KathleenD
04-28-2010, 01:09 AM
I went away to hit my word count for the day and came back to find gobs of yogurt.

Is it time to start singing "A Wizard's Staff Has A Knob On The End" yet?

scarletpeaches
04-28-2010, 01:13 AM
Oh, it's never too late to make things right, Peachy!My book ends at chapter twenty-seven but I'm going to ask about adding an epilogue entitled 'chapter sixty-nine' - a 5,000-word treatise on the beauty of my male MC's twitching spam javelin, which he occasionally calls his pork sword, or 'Junior'.

firedrake
04-28-2010, 01:16 AM
Gawd, you s0ft p0rn writers are so gross.

*tut tut*

scarletpeaches
04-28-2010, 01:18 AM
Does that mean you don't want to read my book of short stories about James Purefoy?

firedrake
04-28-2010, 01:24 AM
Does that mean you don't want to read my book of short stories about James Purefoy?

I shall have to order to mind bleach first.

scarletpeaches
04-28-2010, 01:25 AM
But the proposed title is "Behind the (Beef) Curtains: An Anthology of Meat".

dclary
04-28-2010, 01:33 AM
the fleshy steel of my manhood in rigid glory rose painfully erect at the sight of this thread.

The_Ink_Goddess
04-28-2010, 01:34 AM
It's just---awful. I'm sorry, I'm FUMING with that awful Rejection Queen.

The worst part is, it puts other writers in a bad frame of mind! We don't want to hear you whine about how boring and frustrating and terrible it is! WE GET IT. We've all been there. But ffs, I just hate hate hate that blog. If her supposedly TBP novel exists, shouldn't she be happy with that? At this current moment, I'd be happy just to be having one novel in the works. What does she think she's trying to achieve? Piss off and depress everyone else around her? I hate it I hate it I hate it.

Just....gahhhhhhhh.

Phaeal
04-28-2010, 02:16 AM
*wonders if it's too late to change 'cock' to 'shiny purple-headed Right Honourable Member for Underpantsshire' in her novel...*

Well, if you need a higher word count, go for it. Of course, that might put your word count in the 200,000 range...

eqb
04-28-2010, 04:18 AM
And obviously she doesn't really understand that really successful authors are, in part, successful because they DO maintain a blog and reach out to their readers.

Yeah. She's demonstrated several times over that she doesn't understand much about publishing. She actually thought it would only take a month for PA to publish her book. And her lies about "my publisher Grand Central" just emphasize her ignorance.

News flash: Large commercial publishers don't schedule books for release within six months of making an offer. (Certain exceptions for time sensitive books, yes, but not your everyday genre novel.)

Toothpaste
04-28-2010, 06:41 AM
Because I know Jenny is still reading this thread, she should also know that her latest claim that only unsuccessfully published authors have the time to post at places like this should, once more, check around a wee bit. We have several best selling authors here on AW, I'm talking NY Times bestselling authors.

Aside from that, these days, most successful authors are even more so BECAUSE of their web presence (take Neil Gaiman for example), so your decision to avoid the internet once you are very successful is not such a good one. In fact many agents/publishers want to know what kind of internet presence you have before they take you on.

And if you think finding out who you really are was tricky and time consuming, you are giving yourself far too much credit.

At any rate, I'm truly sorry that you didn't turn out to be telling the truth, as I did believe there for a moment that a really big mistake had been made. I wish you the best of luck and I do hope that in time you'll come to a moment of clarity about your behaviour. You should know that it's never too late to change, or admit when you've done something wrong. And that people really respect others capable of making such admissions.

I'm going to leave this thread now as it makes me sad.

MichaelZWilliamson
04-28-2010, 09:41 AM
Worrying about her ideas being "stolen," check.

Sure her friends know more about a marketable book than industry professionals, check.

Paid an editor to go over her MSS, check.

At a really cheap rate, check.

Public venting and name calling, check.

Sure that a publishing contract will mean never having to deal with lesser mortals again, check.

$20 says she never gets published by anyone professional.

MichaelZWilliamson
04-28-2010, 09:46 AM
Can we stop the comments about the deep dish anchovy pizza of love and the quivering hunk of love sausage, or the purple-helmeted love warrior and the temple of doom...

Emerald
04-28-2010, 09:54 AM
I was a member of a fanboard that went belly-up a couple of years ago when the woman running it came under fire for misplacing/misusing funds entrusted to her. (tens of thousands of dollars here) Within hours of being outted by different people who didn't know others had given her money (none of which was mine, thankfully), she started with the excuses including theft, blaming her bank going under, blaming her upbringing to shrugging it off as inconsequential. Then she and her friends had all manner of medical emergencies, begging for sympathy and support.

Why hallo thar Fandom type person I believe I know :D

Does your other username start with an E, by any chance?

SJAB
04-28-2010, 10:08 AM
In fact many agents/publishers want to know what kind of internet presence you have before they take you on.


Very true and encourage you to begin to build one if you haven't. Sad old buffer that I am I had to get my daughter to help me create my 'Facebook' pages, ROFL.


On a side note; I would like to thank all the posters for their wit over the last few days. It has brightened my mornings up no end.

brainstorm77
04-28-2010, 10:14 AM
Note her blog comments are now moderated.

Old Hack
04-28-2010, 10:33 AM
Note her blog comments are now moderated.

It's a shame that her own comments aren't.

brainstorm77
04-28-2010, 10:44 AM
It's a shame that her own comments aren't.

Very true. :evil

eqb
04-28-2010, 05:06 PM
The official Fandom Wank entry. (http://www.journalfen.net/community/fandom_wank/1245906.html)

Mr Flibble
04-28-2010, 05:16 PM
$20 says she never gets published by anyone professional.

$20 says if she ever does, that she'll go on a rampaging meltdown across Amazon when someone dares to give her a one star review.

SheilaJG
04-28-2010, 05:30 PM
The official Fandom Wank entry. (http://www.journalfen.net/community/fandom_wank/1245906.html)

Thanks for the link. I found out about this late and missed her original post (since she took it down). I kept wondering how bad it could be. Holy smokes!

You know, I find that kind of delusion coupled with aggressiveness oddly compelling as a character study.

Phaeal
04-28-2010, 05:51 PM
Can we stop the comments about the deep dish anchovy pizza of love and the quivering hunk of love sausage...

Thanks. Now I'm all hungry.

Giant Baby
04-28-2010, 07:38 PM
I have enjoyed the comments in her replacement post. They remind me of my niece, when she was about two or so. She used to lay in her crib and engage in long conversations about important things like Granddad's belly or her Waterdoodle, in which she supplied all the voices herself. It kind of reads like that. Just a little less coherent.

eqb
04-28-2010, 08:16 PM
She still hasn't snipped all the connections between her blog and her Jennifer Edlund facebook accounts. Or perhaps it's just an amazing coincidence that Mindy Morgan is friends with both RejectionQueen and Jennifer Edlund.

eqb
04-28-2010, 08:34 PM
Oh, and if the facebook friend links do disappear, that will only confirm the connection.

Christine N.
04-28-2010, 11:57 PM
Ugh. Today she's reposted an article she wrote - tips for new writers. Most of it isn't bad advice, actually, but you can tell she was a newb when she wrote it, using the term 'fiction novel'.

Yeah, no. That's an automatic rejection for many query letters. Which sounds totally harsh, but that's the way it is sometimes.

Novels ARE fiction. Even fiction based on reality is fiction. Genre novels are fiction.
Memoirs are creative non-fiction.
Biography is non-fiction.'


Fiction novel is redundant and the mark of someone who doesn't know their business.

eqb
04-29-2010, 12:24 AM
Perhaps she's climbed back down from the window ledge and is trying for a more rational tone. That is a good thing.

Christine N.
04-29-2010, 12:51 AM
Perhaps, but people like that don't stay bottled up for long. Eventually she's going to have to come clean - people will want to see her new book. And since she's been touting it on the blog, complete with complaining about the problems with her publisher, someone will figure out that she's been fibbing all along. She won't be able to avoid it, and people have long memories.

Namatu
04-29-2010, 02:21 AM
Novels ARE fiction. Even fiction based on reality is fiction. Genre novels are fiction.
Memoirs are creative non-fiction.
Biography is non-fiction.'What about short-story fiction? Article fiction? This poor catch phrase, "fiction novel," just can't get any love. ;)

Christine N.
04-29-2010, 02:27 AM
Short-story.
Article fiction??? WTF?? :)

No 'fiction' anything. The only place the words 'fiction' and 'non-fiction' belong is on the shelves at the library. (and don't you dare put those back in the wrong place, or I might have to smack your fingers!)

Someone commented on the 'fiction novel' item, and apparently an agent already has enlightened her with a note on her query stating that 'all novels are fiction'.

*snerk*

scarletpeaches
04-29-2010, 02:30 AM
The next person who says "Fiction novel," gets beaned in the face.

KTC
04-29-2010, 02:35 AM
i love reading fiction novels.

Jadedinsc
04-29-2010, 02:47 AM
Short-story.
Article fiction??? WTF?? :)


I believe those would be submissions to Weekly World News. ;)

Cyia
04-29-2010, 02:48 AM
The next person who says "Fiction novel," gets beaned in the face.

Hurts less than having your face banned... that one really stings.

scarletpeaches
04-29-2010, 02:51 AM
i love reading fiction novels.Shut up.

thethinker42
04-29-2010, 02:56 AM
I wroted a fiction novel once.

scarletpeaches
04-29-2010, 03:00 AM
Please die now, you bastards.

Alexandra Little
04-29-2010, 03:10 AM
I once had the hardest time explaining to a classmate in my Bachelor's program (a BA in English, btw) that "fiction novel" was a bit redundant.

(I also had the hardest time explaining to that person that our assigned textbook for the class was not a non-fiction novel, that "non-fiction novel" is a literary genre that has nothing to do with our academic textbook, and that not all books are novels. I wonder if she graduated...)

KTC
04-29-2010, 03:14 AM
Shut up.


i have been shutted. up. i must crawl to my corner to finish my fiction novel.

batgirl
04-29-2010, 03:35 AM
How about a 'fictional novel'? Isn't that what Rejection Queen has written?

My money goes on her fictional agent having a long, agonising, fictional death, preventing her fictional novel from being published. That way she herself can survive to post about the evil thwarting ways of Big Publishers.
-Barbara

eqb
04-29-2010, 03:49 AM
My money goes on her fictional agent having a long, agonising, fictional death, preventing her fictional novel from being published. That way she herself can survive to post about the evil thwarting ways of Big Publishers.

Amazingly, she has not yet claimed to have an agent. (Though surely that is the next step, after her publishing deal with Grand Central falls through because of irreconcilable differences.)

thethinker42
04-29-2010, 03:58 AM
I explained "fiction novel" to someone earlier today by saying it's the equivalent to "beef burger". Got the point across.

Marian Perera
04-29-2010, 04:18 AM
I explained "fiction novel" to someone earlier today by saying it's the equivalent to "beef burger". Got the point across.

Actually, in Dubai a lot of places serve beefburgers. "Hamburgers" may sound offensive in a country where a lot of people have religious objections to pork.

blacbird
04-29-2010, 04:27 AM
I propose "fictitionalistic novel".

caw

Alexandra Little
04-29-2010, 04:28 AM
Actually, in Dubai a lot of places serve beefburgers. "Hamburgers" may sound offensive in a country where a lot of people have religious objections to pork.

...does that mean there's a publisher somewhere in the world that accepts fiction novels?

Giant Baby
04-29-2010, 04:34 AM
...does that mean there's a publisher somewhere in the world that accepts fiction novels?

Yes. PublishAmerica.

Alexandra Little
04-29-2010, 04:50 AM
Yes. PublishAmerica.

Maybe I should have said "legitimate publisher" or "actual publisher" or "respectable publisher." Yeah, I like "respectable publisher" best.

SirOtter
04-29-2010, 05:12 AM
I explained "fiction novel" to someone earlier today by saying it's the equivalent to "beef burger". Got the point across.

Or ink pen. Ink, as opposed to what? Soy sauce? Bilirubin? Adipocere? "No, I don't want the pen with ink in it. Give me the one loaded with a disgusting, smelly bodily fluid."

Cyia
04-29-2010, 05:15 AM
Or ink pen. Ink, as opposed to what? Soy sauce? Bilirubin? Adipocere? "No, I don't want the pen with ink in it. Give me the one loaded with a disgusting, smelly bodily fluid."

One must always keep their ink pens away from their epi pens. Sure, the epi. will perk up your writing, but ink does very little when having a massive allergic reaction. Plus, they think you're stupid at the ER.

NeuroFizz
04-29-2010, 06:16 AM
Fiction novels give me a pain in my butt ass.

Miss Plum
04-29-2010, 06:31 AM
The next person who says "Fiction novel," gets beaned in the face.
Then again, to "get beaned" is to get hit in the face.

SirOtter
04-29-2010, 06:38 AM
Then again, to "get beaned" is to get hit in the face.

Actually, in the head, most often in the temple, since that's what's usually facing a pitcher when you're at bat and 'get beaned'. That's where Cleveland Indians shortstop Ray Chapman got hit by Yankees pitcher Carl Mays on August 16, 1920. It fractured his temporal bone and he died twelve hours later, the only player ever killed in a major league ballgame by getting beaned.

Bean has been a nickname for the head since at least 1912, when Edgar Rice Burroughs tried to publish A Princess of Mars under the pseudonym, Normal Bean, indicating that despite the fantastic events in his novel, he himself was sane. Alas, the editor at All-Story Magazine thought that was a typo and changed the byline to Norman Bean. Burroughs gave up on the whole business and never used a pseudonym again.

MichaelZWilliamson
04-29-2010, 06:38 AM
I wroted a fiction novel once.


Mynd you, fiction novels can be pretty nasti.

MichaelZWilliamson
04-29-2010, 06:39 AM
Beef burger was also the standard name when I lived in England.

Giant Baby
04-29-2010, 07:18 AM
Fiction novels give me a pain in my butt ass.

I shall now slink off to obsessively dismay over the fact that I did not coin the phrase "butt ass," and now never can.

Oh, poppycock-wang.

MichaelZWilliamson
04-29-2010, 07:27 AM
It seems appropriate to stick a detailed comment in here.

J. Michael Straczynski once called Harlan Ellison, and asked him for advice on reducing the volume of rejections he got.

Harlan's laconic advice: "Stop writing crap."


I had bunches of short story rejections while trying to get my first novel published. The novel sold on first submission. I'm still not nearly as good with shorts.

Recently, I was asked to contribute a story to the "Citizens" anthology. I dusted off this old short from a decade ago, and took a look.

Turgid, lacking impact, and way too much backstory. It was a short trying to be a novel. I chopped it from 12K to 8K, rewrote line by line--there may be two untouched lines of dialog and a sentence or two. The rest was gutted and rebuilt, stronger, faster, better.

The original was crap. This rewrite is being well received.

How can she get published? Stop writing crap.

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:546MrGe6GRkJ:rejectionqueen.blogspo t.com/2010/04/why-life-sucks.html and here's the archive post of her rant;)

MichaelZWilliamson
04-29-2010, 08:00 AM
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just a suggestion, but maybe you should double check the actual identies of those people on Absolute Write...because MANY of them ARE published, and not all of them are Romance authors.

Don't just believe what your friend or whoever told you, check it out for yourself.

Some even actually have agents.

April 27, 2010 12:49 PM
Blogger The Rejection Queen said...

Honestly, I could care less about who is who. Unlike them, I have better things to do in my life then do investigations on people.

April 27, 2010 12:52 PM
Blogger The Rejection Queen said...

Yeah, published authors that will never amount to anything. Seriously, if those "PUBLISHED AUTHORS" have time to screw around on blogs...they ain't doing so well. I know once my book is published I won't have time to do this shit anymore. Unless I'm REALLY unsuccessful.

April 27, 2010 12:54 PM

~~~~

Yes, John Scalzi and...oh, NEIL GAIMAN blog extensively. They clearly ain't doing so well.

I make an adequate living as a writer, which puts me above 90%, and I blog the hell out of stuff.

Beckstah
04-29-2010, 08:09 AM
Her most recent post contains the words "fiction novel."

I think that tells me everything I need to know.

friendlyhobo
04-29-2010, 09:00 AM
wow I hadn't read this thread (or looked at her blog) for a while and... I'm ashamed to say I'm pleased she lost her marbles and went full on cray-cray trying to untangle her web of lies. It is all so entertaining.
I also like to think (wish I could think) this is all an act by some person with a weird and patient sense of humor reading this thread and saying "at last, I got those writers... I tricked them into believing that someone so ridiculous exists! hahaha!"

gothicangel
04-29-2010, 10:45 AM
Beef burger was also the standard name when I lived in England.

True, despite beef being the lowest quantity of ingredient in a burger. :D

Now an Aberdeen Angus burger, that's a different matter.

Wayne K
04-29-2010, 11:08 AM
I love that she's now posting tips on writing for newbies

Nona
04-29-2010, 11:27 AM
Just in case Jenny happens by, here's another bit of info that gave her up. On March 29th, she writes on the blog.

Which, the Jennifer Edlund FB backs up with: "April 15th is the day!"

THEN, amazingly, BOTH Jennys have 'problems' with their books and they're pushed back.

Lady, look. Your done. Outed. Grand Central Publishing would NOT have problems as you describe ONE MONTH before release. Not that it couldn't happen, but one month until drop is the time when the publisher is gathering releases and PRINTING BOOKS. The time for mistakes is long past, and that book wouldn't have gone to print unless it was pretty damn near perfect.

PA on the other hand, totally can believe it.

Just fess up already, 'cuz this isn't going away. And leave Jim Hines alone - he might write you into his next book.


When my first visit to the Rejection Queen blog set my lie-dar pinging, I kept my mouth shut.

When I happened to check back at RQ around the time she posted her email address and subsequently Googled my way to that phony book cover, I kept my mouth shut.

Now that she's gone and blown the whole thing up on her own, I'm gonna go ahead and point this out:

Jennifer Edlund's Helium.com About Me page (http://www.helium.com/users/327663) tells us she has no articles posted on Helium.

But Archive.org's Wayback Machine says she used to have a bunch of articles on Helium (http://web.archive.org/web/20080208044411/www.helium.com/user/show/327663). (Page formatting screwed up due to it being an archive, but the text is still readable.)

Hmm... and what were those articles?

Snappy little numbers like "Relationships: Advice on letting go, (http://web.archive.org/web/20080109185530/www.helium.com/tm/686338/letting-after-break-arduous)" "Great ways to annoy a guy (http://web.archive.org/web/20080125032138/www.helium.com/tm/758086/women-proven-methods-keeping)," and "Advice for new writers (http://web.archive.org/web/20071129222816/www.helium.com/tm/655103/either-talent-straightforward-honestly)."

Somehow I can't help but be reminded of RQ's suggestions for letting go (http://rejectionqueen.blogspot.com/2008/09/rejection-slips-or-form-letters-are.html), annoying guys (http://rejectionqueen.blogspot.com/2008/10/nothing-is-waste-of-time-if-you-use.html) , and new writers (http://rejectionqueen.blogspot.com/2010/04/writing-is-dogs-life-but-only-one-worth.html). And, hey-- RQ specifically says she first posted the "letting go" article on Helium.

So is this split-personality self-plagiarism? A massive Jennifers-only identity theft operation that requires time travel?

I'll leave that for you to decide. I'm still working on figuring out the ethics of what one's supposed to do when one sees ridiculous lies on the internet. Also whether "Como magazine (http://rejectionqueen.blogspot.com/2008/10/nothing-is-waste-of-time-if-you-use.html)" was a typo for Cosmo (http://www.cosmopolitan.com) or she really meant they were printing that article in the mag about "shaping and efficiently interconnecting the diverse transportation systems for the long term with our integrated mobility solutions (http://www.mobility.siemens.com/mobility/en/pub/news/customer_magazine/como_magazine.htm)."

Terie
04-29-2010, 11:57 AM
Nona, you might be new here, but I think you might have just won Teh Interwebz! You are the goddess of Google-Fu, and I bow before you. :D

Let's capture some of that here so that when Jenny Edwards deletes the RQ posts, we'll still have the evidence.

From Jennifer Edlund on Helium (Nona's first 'letting go' link above)


Letting go after a break up can be the most arduous part in a relationship, sometimes even torturous depending how long the relationship lasted. Putting time and effort into someone and then to see it all fall part is the primary explanation of why some people have such a difficult time letting go. In other circumstances, people are fearful of starting the dating process again, and want to dodge it at all costs. Through my experiences, I have discovered that the only real way to let go is to give it time. Yes, it is brutal.

And from Jenny Edwards on the RQ:


Letting go after a break up can be the most arduous part in a relationship, sometimes even torturous depending how long the relationship lasted. Putting time and effort into someone and then to see it all fall part is the primary explanation of why some people have such a difficult time letting go. In other circumstances, people are fearful of starting the dating process again, and want to dodge it at all costs. Through my experiences, I have discovered that the only real way to let go is to give it time. Yes, it is brutal.

Jennifer Edlund on how to annoy guys:


Some women have proven methods of keeping a man happy in a relationship. Others might disclose the secrets of how to destroy a relationship. The concept of fending off a man is far easier than actually trying to snag one. Through the years, I have witnessed several of my dear friends do all the wrong things when it comes to making a relationship successful. The following is a list of tips that might be useful when annoying a man. If you don't catch my sarcasm by the time you are done reading this, you might want to reevaluate the list.

Jenny Edwards on how to annoy guys:


Some women have proven methods of keeping a man happy in a relationship. Others might disclose the secrets of how to destroy a relationship. The concept of fending off a man is far easier than actually trying to snag one. Through the years, I have witnessed several of my dear friends do all the wrong things when it comes to making a relationship successful. The following is a list of tips that might be useful when annoying a man. If you donít catch my sarcasm by the time you are done reading this, you might want to reevaluate the list.

Jennifer Edlund on advice for new writers:


Either you have the talent or you don't. It's that straightforward. I honestly believe that if you want to write a fiction novel or any novel for that matter, you have to be born with the gift. It doesn't have anything to do with going to college or going to a famed writing school, no one can teach you to be creative.

Jenny Edwards on advice for new writers:


Either you have the talent or you donít. Itís that straightforward. If you want to write a fiction novel or anything for that matter, you have to be born with the gift. It doesnít have anything to do with going to college or going to a famed writing school. No one can teach you to be creative.

bettielee
04-29-2010, 12:03 PM
I agree. Someone, bundle up the interwebs and take it to Nona's house. And the title of her post gets her a gold star and a chocolit cayk!

So enjoyable. Her cheese is so far off her cracker.... the five second rule has long since been breached.

bettielee
04-29-2010, 12:06 PM
oh - and wait!! isn't there something illegal about claiming to have a book coming out on so-n-so press when it isn't true?!

Parametric
04-29-2010, 12:24 PM
Either you have the talent or you don’t. It’s that straightforward. If you want to write a fiction novel or anything for that matter, you have to be born with the gift. It doesn’t have anything to do with going to college or going to a famed writing school. No one can teach you to be creative.

That explains a lot. If you're born gifted, your novel is a masterpiece even at 144,000 words. If nobody can teach you anything, you don't learn from anyone. No writing group, no critique partner, no beta readers, no books on writing ... :rolleyes:

Parametric
04-29-2010, 12:25 PM
oh - and wait!! isn't there something illegal about claiming to have a book coming out on so-n-so press when it isn't true?!

I think that's just lying. If she was telling people to send her money via PayPal so she could send them the book, and the book never existed and/or was substantially not what she promised, that might be illegal.

Of course Grand Central might not be very pleased to be associated with her. :tongue

Christine N.
04-29-2010, 01:46 PM
Little birdies tell me that they...aren't.

She was told that publishing was a very small community and people talk...but she never published my comment. And obviously didn't listen. *shrug*.

Phaeal
04-29-2010, 05:53 PM
I explained "fiction novel" to someone earlier today by saying it's the equivalent to "beef burger". Got the point across.

I go to a restaurant that serves beef burgers, turkey burgers, chicken burgers, bison burgers, lamb burgers, pork burgers, ostrich burgers, tuna burgers, salmon burgers, soy burgers, vegetable burgers, bean burgers, grain burgers, and yes, ham burgers. If they can stick it together, they call it a burger.

I've seen the same easy nomenclature for sandwichable patties in most restaurants I've frequented.

However, fiction novel remains an abomination. Butt ass, on the other hand, is a joy forever.

thethinker42
04-29-2010, 06:13 PM
I go to a restaurant that serves beef burgers, turkey burgers, chicken burgers, bison burgers, lamb burgers, pork burgers, ostrich burgers, tuna burgers, salmon burgers, soy burgers, vegetable burgers, bean burgers, grain burgers, and yes, ham burgers. If they can stick it together, they call it a burger.

I've seen the same easy nomenclature for sandwichable patties in most restaurants I've frequented.

However, fiction novel remains an abomination. Butt ass, on the other hand, is a joy forever.

Yes, but when one says "a burger", it's assumed it's beef. When something else is used (bison burger, ostrich burger, etc), then the difference is clear...but burger on its own is generally assumed to be beef.

Of course it's not a perfect analogy...but it got the point across to the person who couldn't understand why I wanted to cut out their tongue for saying "fiction novel".

scarletpeaches
04-29-2010, 06:16 PM
I just say, "All novels are fiction, you ignorant cunt," after which they generally leave me alone.

thethinker42
04-29-2010, 06:19 PM
I just say, "All novels are fiction, you ignorant cunt," after which they generally leave me alone.

Well yes, you would...

scarletpeaches
04-29-2010, 06:20 PM
I'm thinking of writing an etiquette manual.

It will, of course, be a very short book.

Kateness
04-29-2010, 06:22 PM
Is it weird that, even in my pre-internet days, I never thought of anything I was writing as a "fiction novel"? Is it a phase you're supposed to go through?

Bubastes
04-29-2010, 07:02 PM
That explains a lot. If you're born gifted, your novel is a masterpiece even at 144,000 words. If nobody can teach you anything, you don't learn from anyone. No writing group, no critique partner, no beta readers, no books on writing ... :rolleyes:

And if you're born gifted, rejections are their fault, not yours.

Celia Cyanide
04-29-2010, 07:24 PM
I just say, "All novels are fiction, you ignorant cunt," after which they generally leave me alone.

Except for "In Cold Blood." It's a non-fiction novel. But Capote iz teh special.

scarletpeaches
04-29-2010, 07:44 PM
I love how you answered yet another "SP haz a angreh" post as if it was...an everyday occurrence.

Which I guess it is. :D

Cyia
04-29-2010, 07:47 PM
Except for "In Cold Blood." It's a non-fiction novel. But Capote iz teh special.

Don't they call that "narrative non-fiction" now? or *gag* "faction"

willietheshakes
04-29-2010, 07:53 PM
Except for "In Cold Blood." It's a non-fiction novel. But Capote iz teh special.

Dammit, CC - you beat me to the punch!

Libbie
04-29-2010, 08:25 PM
Heh heh heh.

Fiction novel.

Celia Cyanide
04-29-2010, 08:37 PM
Don't they call that "narrative non-fiction" now? or *gag* "faction"

I think that "In Cold Blood" is just considered a genre unto itself.

RedRajah
04-29-2010, 08:39 PM
Heh heh heh.

Fiction novel.

Novel concept? :)

ChristineR
04-29-2010, 08:44 PM
Yeah, you just say "narrative non-fiction in the tradition of In Cold Blood," and hope no one snickers at you for comparing yourself to Capote.

Christine N.
04-30-2010, 12:03 AM
I think "In Cold Blood" would be either creative non-fiction, or Fiction based on Actual Events.

I'm thinking CNF.

Celia Cyanide
04-30-2010, 12:46 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-fiction_novel

It's very rare for a book to be described as a non-fiction novel, but "In Cold Blood" is.

Alexandra Little
04-30-2010, 01:10 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-fiction_novel

It's very rare for a book to be described as a non-fiction novel, but "In Cold Blood" is.

I took an American literature class and the theme was "non-fiction novels." We read Capote, Norman Mailer, Hunter S. Thompson, Joan Didion, Joyce Carol Oates, Don DeLillo, and Deanne Stillman. Not sure how rare that is.

Then again, I'd never even heard the term before taking the class, so there you go.

blacbird
04-30-2010, 01:39 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-fiction_novel

It's very rare for a book to be described as a non-fiction novel, but "In Cold Blood" is.

Truman Capote himself, always on the alert for a marketing ploy, invented the term for In Cold Blood. I've always regarded it as kind of silly, but it stuck.

caw

bettielee
04-30-2010, 04:37 AM
Isn't that just True Crime?!

Katrina S. Forest
04-30-2010, 03:00 PM
Okay, maybe this should more be a discussion unto itself, but there are two quotes in her last blog post that stuck out to me:


Tip # 1-Either you have the talent or you donít. Itís that straightforward. If you want to write a fiction novel or anything for that matter, you have to be born with the gift.


There is also another major factor that new writers should be aware of, and what I am about to tell you is imperative. Read. Read a lot. Right from the get-go, if you donít read, you will never learn the craft properly.

If I take the first one to be true, then there's no reason for me to read. I have the gift. I don't have to do anything other than use it.

Okay, I do understand what she meant to say (that she believes you have to have raw talent and then read to refine it), but I get frustrated when people say you either have talent or you don't. Because I'm very sure that I showed no talent in my younger years. Passion and obsession, maybe, but talent, meh. (Therefore, I do think authors have to read because if you don't read, you won't get very talented.) Rejection Queen's certainly not the first one I've heard say that writing is an inborn gift, so I'm curious what others think.

nkkingston
04-30-2010, 04:21 PM
I hate the talent argument. Yes, there are more roadblocks in certain paths than others (for example, anyone can draw. Some people pick it up quicker, but anyone can be taught), but to lay everything at the feet of talent belittles the hard work people put in to writing. I've been writing since I was four, and I am not going to let anyone pass those years of hard work off as some ephemeral talent!

Oshodisa
04-30-2010, 04:28 PM
I hate the talent argument. Yes, there are more roadblocks in certain paths than others (for example, anyone can draw. Some people pick it up quicker, but anyone can be taught), but to lay everything at the feet of talent belittles the hard work people put in to writing. I've been writing since I was four, and I am not going to let anyone pass those years of hard work off as some ephemeral talent!

I have to hold my hand up and admit that I really cannot draw. Things are not even recognisable!!!:)

mccardey
04-30-2010, 04:39 PM
I have to hold my hand up and admit that I really cannot draw. Things are not even recognisable!!!

Yeah. Me too. A friend who's an artist told me I could draw and tried to teach me how and after a while she said I just wasn't trying and packed up her paints and went home.

And I was trying. I just can't draw.

(for example, anyone can draw. Some people pick it up quicker, but anyone can be taught), Cook. You mean Anyone can cook.

;)

aruna
04-30-2010, 04:54 PM
I can draw and I can write but I can't do music-- in spite of always loving it and trying various instrumens. But we had the talent vs work discussion just a few weeks ago. Most people seemed to agree that both are needed.

Bookdragonette
04-30-2010, 04:55 PM
(for example, anyone can draw. Some people pick it up quicker, but anyone can be taught), Cook. You mean Anyone can cook.

;)
Try telling that to my fiancť. He's quite certain he can't cook. :tongue

As for writing. I am quite sure I have some talent. I also have a large amount of natural laziness. Where does that leave me?

aruna
04-30-2010, 04:55 PM
(for example, anyone can draw. Some people pick it up quicker, but anyone can be taught), Cook. You mean Anyone can cook.

;)

Missed that one. You should come to my house one day for a meal and see if you still agree! ;)

scarletpeaches
04-30-2010, 05:24 PM
I hate the talent argument. Yes, there are more roadblocks in certain paths than others (for example, anyone can draw. Some people pick it up quicker, but anyone can be taught), but to lay everything at the feet of talent belittles the hard work people put in to writing. I've been writing since I was four, and I am not going to let anyone pass those years of hard work off as some ephemeral talent!Word.

I could smack anyone who calls me lucky or talented. I fucking worked, and hard, to get where I am today.

I so, so agree with you.

Celia Cyanide
04-30-2010, 05:46 PM
Isn't that just True Crime?!

Read most true crime books, and then read "In Cold Blood." I think you'll see a difference.

Christine N.
04-30-2010, 06:25 PM
I think there's innate talent, and the drive to hone the talent, which is work. And it's not so much the talent to draw or write, but the way in which writers and artists and musicians see the world that allow them to understand the music or writing or art.

If you don't get how it's done, even if someone explains it to you, you won't be good at it. I'm way better at physics than chemistry, because I can wrap my head around physics - I can SEE the principles in my mind and get how they work. Chemistry just gives me a headache. And it's not a memorization thing, because Bio is mostly memorization too and I do fine with that.

Same with music - I can read the notes and I can sight-sing, but don't put an instrument in my hands unless you like the sound of a sack of cats being beaten with a hammer.

scarletpeaches
04-30-2010, 06:29 PM
...I can read the notes and I can sight-sing, but don't put an instrument in my hands unless you like the sound of a sack of cats being beaten with a hammer.That's...that's just...poetry, man. *sniffs*

Libbie
04-30-2010, 06:30 PM
A lot of people think they can't draw because they've never broken drawing down into its smaller constituent steps. Break it down into tiny enough pieces, and nearly everybody who thinks they can't draw actually can. At least well enough to make the object they're drawing clearly recognizable.

I think writing is the same way. Perhaps the people we think of as being "naturally talented" just know intuitively how to break this task down into its tiny, easy-to-tackle pieces.

kaitie
04-30-2010, 06:36 PM
I'm definitely not particularly talented. I think you can have talent, but that isn't enough. You'll still need to work at it to improve and put out a good product. Conversely, hard work with not as much talent can get you really far as well. Hopefully one of these days I'll be able to cite myself as a success story.

icerose
04-30-2010, 06:37 PM
I'm with Christine. If you don't have the understanding and the ability to understand it is something that will never be taught or picked up or learned.

But even someone who is naturally very talented, it still takes work, just sometimes not as much. Though I've seen incredibly talented individuals who were so lazy that they never got any better. They never rose to any challenge because they sat back on their talent.

There are individuals who have absolutely no "talent" for storytelling and it's something they will never learn because they just don't get it, even if their writing is very clean.

So I do agree with the need for talent to a point. Her saying you need to read and need to read a lot, then yeah, of course. It's like trying to be a musician and never having listened to any other music in your life. To be honest I don't think it should even have to be mentioned it should be a given. If you're going to try and be successful in this area, then you need to become very acquainted with that field. It's like a no brainer.

But saying no talent is required for writing is like saying no understanding of math is necessary for Engineering.

aruna
04-30-2010, 06:56 PM
I think writing is the same way. Perhaps the people we think of as being "naturally talented" just know intuitively how to break this task down into its tiny, easy-to-tackle pieces.
Intuitively -- that's the word.
My daughter had it, ran with it, she's studying design. My son didn't; he's doing medicine.


I'm definitely not particularly talented. I think you can have talent, but that isn't enough. You'll still need to work at it to improve and put out a good product. Conversely, hard work with not as much talent can get you really far as well. Hopefully one of these days I'll be able to cite myself as a success story.

But nobody here has ever said that talent is enough. The consensus seems to be talent AND work.

I don't understand why saying that someone has a natural talent is an insult. scratches head.

but please, please don't let's start this off again! I'll find the old thread and link it....

ETA: Here ya goes! Talent AND Hard Work (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176663&highlight=talent)

Celia Cyanide
04-30-2010, 07:17 PM
But nobody here has ever said that talent is enough. The consensus seems to be talent AND work.

Indeed. To acknowledge talent is not to negate the existance of hard work.

willietheshakes
04-30-2010, 07:22 PM
Isn't there a 2738 page "talent vs. work" thread, which, if memory serves, resulted in a couple of banninations?

Cyia
04-30-2010, 07:32 PM
If all she's relying on is talent, then she's got a couple of problems.

Based on the massive work of fiction which is her blog identity, she knows nothing about internal consistency in characterization. She can't make, and stick to, her own established rules within her created universe. And, she has no clue about how to properly utilize foreshadowing. (Not to mention the whole "setting the audience up for a massive Got'cha! moment" at the point of the big reveal if she fesses up about her publisher.)

But, she's got people's attention, so that's a plus, I guess.

Phaeal
04-30-2010, 08:48 PM
No, really. Anyone can learn to cook. He may not be able to come up with new recipes or develop the culinary understanding to deviate from recipes, but if he can read and manipulate the tools, he can cook.

He only says he can't because he wants to get out of it.

Substitute "she" for "he" at will. There's no gender bias in cooking or laziness. ;)

Christine N.
04-30-2010, 09:07 PM
A lot of people think they can't draw because they've never broken drawing down into its smaller constituent steps. Break it down into tiny enough pieces, and nearly everybody who thinks they can't draw actually can. At least well enough to make the object they're drawing clearly recognizable.

I think writing is the same way. Perhaps the people we think of as being "naturally talented" just know intuitively how to break this task down into its tiny, easy-to-tackle pieces.

Yes, this. This is exactly what I meant. In the same way, a natural, innate, intuitive-ness without cultivation will go nowhere.

aruna
04-30-2010, 09:07 PM
I think, though, there's a difference. Sure, I could probably follow a recipe EXACTLY and come up with an edible meal. But in cooking as in all arts, there's a certain Factor X, a ZING, that has nothing to do with getting th enotes or the ingredietnts or the lines or the words right. A kind of magic. Maybe it's just plain -- love. Someone who loves to cook will produce better meals than someone who just uses the right ingredients, times etc.
ETA: this was an anwer to Phael's post.

jchines
04-30-2010, 10:06 PM
There was an anonymous poster trolling Jim Hines' LJ that's doing a damn good impression of her as well.

Nah. Two anonymous posts hardly qualifies her as a troll. A goblin at best.

FWIW, the goblin's IP address puts her Internet provider within 17 miles of Rejection Queen's current posted home town, according to her Facebook page...

Terie
04-30-2010, 10:08 PM
FWIW, the goblin's IP address puts her Internet provider within 17 miles of Rejection Queen's current posted home town, according to her Facebook page...

Betcha her IP address is yet another thing she mysteriously has in common with Jennifer Edlund. :D

eqb
04-30-2010, 10:25 PM
Also, Mindy Morgan as her friend on blogspot and Facebook.

Celia Cyanide
04-30-2010, 11:02 PM
Yes, this. This is exactly what I meant. In the same way, a natural, innate, intuitive-ness without cultivation will go nowhere.

Yes, I agree. We're not denying that everyone has to work hard. But some people do have natural talent. A person without it can work just as hard as a person with it, but the talent will give someone an advantage, even if it's just a slight one.

Monkey
04-30-2010, 11:06 PM
Uncle Jim says that talent will give you a head start. You get to begin higher up the ladder than those without it, but if you don't start climbing, you're never going to get any higher. And the ladder is infinitely high.

I like that. That Uncle Jim guy really knows his stuff. :D

Jadedinsc
04-30-2010, 11:31 PM
If all she's relying on is talent, then she's got a couple of problems.

Based on the massive work of fiction which is her blog identity, she knows nothing about internal consistency in characterization. She can't make, and stick to, her own established rules within her created universe. And, she has no clue about how to properly utilize foreshadowing. (Not to mention the whole "setting the audience up for a massive Got'cha! moment" at the point of the big reveal if she fesses up about her publisher.)

:ROFL: So true, so true.

Reading through this thread, I think I can say that the Rejection Queen suffers from Special Snowflake Syndrome. If she stops believing that writing is a talent you have to be born with regardless of how hard you work to hone your skills, then she might have to face the reality that she's not as superior to the rest of humanity as she thinks. Of course, accepting that means accepting that there just might be a legitimate reason for all those rejections she's received. ;)

Phaeal
04-30-2010, 11:48 PM
I think, though, there's a difference. Sure, I could probably follow a recipe EXACTLY and come up with an edible meal. But in cooking as in all arts, there's a certain Factor X, a ZING, that has nothing to do with getting th enotes or the ingredietnts or the lines or the words right. A kind of magic. Maybe it's just plain -- love. Someone who loves to cook will produce better meals than someone who just uses the right ingredients, times etc.
ETA: this was an anwer to Phael's post.

If you follow a good recipe to the letter, you should get a good result. Of course, that's given good ingredients and decent equipment. But the ingredients and equipment aren't a function of your absolute cooking ability.

The exquisite cooks are the ones that don't need to follow the recipe to the letter. They are like the exquisite writers who can break every rule.

christwriter
05-01-2010, 02:59 AM
:ROFL: So true, so true.

Reading through this thread, I think I can say that the Rejection Queen suffers from Special Snowflake Syndrome.

This. Exactly this. Also, the above mentions of talent vs. hard work. Every time somebody says OMG YOUR SO TALENTED to me I want to go hide under a rock and die.

Not to blow my own horn, but you see my avatar? I did that. Photoshop, one week of insane detailing and a wrist that throbbed harder than guys in purple erotic fiction.

So no. I am not fucking talented. I am passing good at art and writing because I worked. I worked very, very hard for a very, very long time. I gave up TV, I have given up lots and lots of sleep, I have the social life of a demented oyster, and my self-esteem needs a retred. I don't paint or write because I'm "talented". I do it because it's what I like to do, and I (hopefully) learned how to do it well because I don't like to suck. And saying OMG YOUR SO TALENTED invalidates the effort I put in to learning how not to suck. It implies I could have gotten here WITHOUT sacrificing TV and social skills. I do not want to hear OMG YOUR SO TALENTED. I want to hear "wow. I can see how much work you put into this masterpiece. You have arrived. Please explain to me how to budget your time, because juggling a full time job and a learn-how-to-write/draw schedule is certainly an impressive feat."

Every time I hear the word "talented" connected with anything I've done, made, thought about doing or even WANTED to do, I throw up a little. But you know, that's just me.

Cranky
05-01-2010, 04:45 AM
I think it's too bad if the Rejection Queen is spending a lot of time thinking about whether or not she's talented. In the end, it doesn't really matter if you (generic) are talented -- unless it comes attached to an acceptance letter or a book deal or a check.

Dwelling on whether or not you're talented is only going to lead you to a dark, bitter place if you aren't getting work accepted. And if you *are* getting work accepted, it can be too tempting to rest on your laurels instead of putting in the hard work you need to in order to keep on succeeding.

Needless to say, despite her words about hard work and talent, I get the feeling that because she feels she's talented, she's entitled to representation and a book contract. Why else would she seem so bitter and angry that these things aren't forthcoming?

aruna
05-01-2010, 10:38 AM
The exquisite cooks are the ones that don't need to follow the recipe to the letter. They are like the exquisite writers who can break every rule.

Exquisite cooks don't even NEED a recipe... perfection just flies out of their hands!

Of late, I've been reading through all the articles I wrote when I was 21; they were published in my home country's leading newspaper, where I worked as a journalist for a while; my first job. I haven't seen them for 38 years and I thought they'd be terrible, but they're not; they're quite good, actually, and only need a bit of tweaking here and there to be reused. None of the huge no-nos; I showed rather than told, used a lot of dialogue in the right places, no misplaced commas, and I didn't overuse adverbs. I never had any training in writing and certainly there was no internet or AW back then; I never read a single writing book or writing article. I didn't go to journalism school; there ws no such thing there, still isn't. I got the job straight out of school, on the basis of an essay "why I want to be a journalist". Mine was the best of 200 applications.

All I knew about writing was what I'd learned in school, in normal English classes, like everyone else. Where did it come from?

Me, I'm happy to be called talented. I wish I were much more talented. I wish I was a genius! I wish I could just sit down to write and everything would come out perfect first time around. It would save so much time and effort, and I am damned lazy!

Yes, I've been getting up at 4 or 5 every morning for the past XXXX years to write, but I wish I didn't have to. It's killing me. I want to stay in bed, just once! I'd like to see mss spring from my being fully formed and perfect! So give me talent, dear God, give me genius!;)

Just goes to show how different we all are.

Inborn talent exists. Nobody who was worked with kids can deny that some are more gifted in specific areas than others; the differences in ability can be immense, and inexplicable. It's a wonderful magical thing, a special gift, and it never ceases to amaze me when I recognise it.


And yes, I admire hard work, too. In combination the two can't be beaten.

And if someone is offended by being called talented, then I'd be the last to do so. But it's hard to know if a person will be offended or not.

Epiphany
05-01-2010, 10:55 AM
I think it's too bad if the Rejection Queen is spending a lot of time thinking about whether or not she's talented.

I think the Rejection Queen needs to find a boyfriend to bitch to and who will also drown her in compliments. Bonus points if she can find a smart one that will help raise her IQ.

Poor sap...

MarkEsq
05-01-2010, 04:25 PM
I think the Rejection Queen needs to find a boyfriend to bitch to and who will also drown her in compliments.




Or to give her a damn good spanking...

Wayne K
05-01-2010, 04:34 PM
What she needed was someone to say to her "Stop it already" her whole life. She sounds like a spoiled brat to me

icerose
05-01-2010, 06:05 PM
I think it's too bad if the Rejection Queen is spending a lot of time thinking about whether or not she's talented. In the end, it doesn't really matter if you (generic) are talented -- unless it comes attached to an acceptance letter or a book deal or a check.

Dwelling on whether or not you're talented is only going to lead you to a dark, bitter place if you aren't getting work accepted. And if you *are* getting work accepted, it can be too tempting to rest on your laurels instead of putting in the hard work you need to in order to keep on succeeding.

Needless to say, despite her words about hard work and talent, I get the feeling that because she feels she's talented, she's entitled to representation and a book contract. Why else would she seem so bitter and angry that these things aren't forthcoming?

I totally agree. I don't think I'm entitled to getting published and such, but I do believe that if I work hard enough, combined with what talent I do have, I will eventually get there with the right book at the right time.

As such when I get a rejection it rolls off me for the most part, and if it doesn't right away, it will in a day or two. A single rejection means nothing, a stack of them means I'm not there yet/working hard enough/have the right book. All of those are in my control and are all things I can work on. It's the rejections over my zipcode that get me down! :Soapbox: Though I've gotten better at recieving those too.

brainstorm77
05-01-2010, 06:07 PM
I think the Rejection Queen needs to find a boyfriend to bitch to and who will also drown her in compliments. Bonus points if she can find a smart one that will help raise her IQ.

Poor sap...

I wouldn't wish her on my worst enemy.:evil

Mr Flibble
05-01-2010, 06:14 PM
It's the rejections over my zipcode that get me down! :Soapbox:



Huh?

I've got this image of you getting a rejection along the lines of 'I'm sorry, I don't like your house and your street does not fit my requirements at this time'. :D

ChristineR
05-01-2010, 06:26 PM
She doesn't come across as spoiled to me, or stupid. I mean, her writing is better than most people's (not just would be writers--people in general). I was trying to figure her out, and what I keep coming up with is "executive functioning deficit." It's where you can be reasonably smart about things like following a recipe, but incapable of thinking through the consequences of calling Janet Reid a vile name on your blog, or posting the e-mail address you used for your facebook account when you're trying to be anonymous, or...signing a contract with PublishAmerica.

It she's still reading this, she'll probably hate me forever now.:Shrug:

SirOtter
05-01-2010, 07:21 PM
This. Exactly this. Also, the above mentions of talent vs. hard work. Every time somebody says OMG YOUR SO TALENTED to me I want to go hide under a rock and die.

I don't blame you. Unlike the hard work you put into your stuff, you did nothing to earn talent. It's a gift from your genes or your creator or that old gypsy woman you didn't offend, not something you earned. It's no good when someone praises you for something over which you had no control.

aadams73
05-01-2010, 07:24 PM
I'm sorry, but I don't get all bent out of shape if someone calls me talented. It in no way undermines my hard work. I think most people realize that to achieve anything of merit, you need a combination of both and commenting on one aspect doesn't cancel the other.

thethinker42
05-01-2010, 07:31 PM
I'm sorry, but I don't get all bent out of shape if someone calls me talented. It in no way undermines my hard work. I think most people realize that to achieve anything of merit, you need a combination of both and commenting on one aspect doesn't cancel the other.

The only time it bugs me is when it's said in a way that implies all or most of my success is based on some god-given talent...not because I've worked my ass off to get there. When it's used as a backhanded compliment - and I've had it used that way - it bugs me.

scarletpeaches
05-01-2010, 07:32 PM
Not with regard to writing, but in other aspects of my life (and yes, I do have one), I often hear, "It's all right for you; you're..."

In writing, this pisses me off because it implies I only write because it's easy. It's not easy. It's hard work. Fun, but hard work.

I [I]hate being called talented - even if I am. I'd rather be complimented on the work I put in than the fairy dust baby Jesus sprinkled me with at birth.

ETA: The "It's all right for you," comments I get are more related to my public-speaking abilities. Time and again I am told "It's all right for you; you don't get nervous!" which makes me want to punch someone. Yes, I get nervous. Yes, I PUT THE WORK IN. I do it anyway, despite my nerves, not in the absence of such.

Same with writing. I put work in.

It's amazing.

The harder I work, the more talented I get.