Anyone Following this Whole Activison vs. Infinity Ward Drama?

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cryaegm

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So, I'm pretty sure many of you know what's going on with Activision and Infinity Ward. Firings of the two creators of Infinity Ward, lawsuit over the ownership of Call of Duty franchise, counter lawsuit, more firings, the creation of Respawn Entertainment with EA, and even more people quitting Infinity Ward.

My question is, has anyone else been following this? I guess it shouldn't surprise me that Activision has done this, seeing as how they fired a lot of people when the sales of DJ Hero didn't do so well when it came out (at least, I think it was DJ Hero). Plus, with the "Stimulus Package" of $15 for 5 maps, two of which are old and I've heard from gamers that the maps were left how they were in Call of Duty 4.

Now there's discussion about Infinity Ward being dead.

(I also found out that Activision was sued by No Doubt over Band Hero. So it doesn't look like Activision is doing so hot there)

But anyways, anyone else been following this? What do you think will happen with MW2 and CoD franchise? Do you think there will be a MW3? If so, do you think it'll be just as good as MW2 or worse?
 

LOG

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The only reason I'm still paying attention is because Activision owns Blizzard, I just know they're gonna screw them up, like EA does to Bioware.
 

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They already screwing with Blizzard or Blizzard is screwing with themselves. Star Craft 2 cut in three pieces, no way will I pay around $150 for the complete game. NO LAN in SC2 same mistake IW did with Modern Warfare 2. The need to be online to play SC2 single player. WOW having cash shops now were players can buy a mount for 25 dollars. SO besides cost of game and monthly subscriptions and charges for services(server transfer) they gotten cash shops.

Modern Warfare 2 is the fall for IW and the call of duty franchise, the next one out will not easily sell more than the current one. They created too much bad blood with the PC Gamers to get the sales they want with little effort. Greed set in and ruined it for them.

It's too bad cause MW2 is not that bad, it would have been a bigger hit had they left the LAN option in and the dedicated servers also they shouldn't have taken the lean function out. They also made it impossible for mods/maps to be made.

By scrapping the dedicated server and LAN options they made sure the game is not suitable for clan matches and competitions.

By scrapping mod support they stabbed the mod community in the back, a very active community, and shortened the live span of the game.

All greed and arrogance, they killed their golden goose.
 

Zoombie

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Modern Warfare 2 wasn't bad?

I could have written a better "Russia invades America" story in my SLEEP.

Even Red Dawn was more realistic.

And made more sense.

And had characters I could take semi-seriously.
 

LOG

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They already screwing with Blizzard or Blizzard is screwing with themselves. Star Craft 2 cut in three pieces, no way will I pay around $150 for the complete game. NO LAN in SC2 same mistake IW did with Modern Warfare 2. The need to be online to play SC2 single player. WOW having cash shops now were players can buy a mount for 25 dollars. SO besides cost of game and monthly subscriptions and charges for services(server transfer) they gotten cash shops.
It's not cut into three pieces, each disc is a complete gaming experience, you just need all three to get the entire story.

They moved away from LAN because they felt that their Battle.net 2.0 will be superior, and that internet is common enough to warrant it. LAN isn't too common in large amounts anymore anyways.
We don't currently plan to support LAN play with StarCraft II, as we are building Battle.net to be the ideal destination for multiplayer gaming with StarCraft II and future Blizzard Entertainment games. While this was a difficult decision for us, we felt that moving away from LAN play and directing players to our upgraded Battle.net service was the best option to ensure a quality multiplayer experience with StarCraft II and safeguard against piracy.
Several Battle.net features like advanced communication options, achievements, stat-tracking, and more, require players to be connected to the service, so we're encouraging everyone to use Battle.net as much as possible to get the most out of StarCraft II. We're looking forward to sharing more details about Battle.net and online functionality for StarCraft II in the near future.
Of course, piracy is the big word here. Battle.net and the constant log-in are there to prevent that. They feel the need to seriously protect this thing from piracy.
Besides, there may still be hope.

Also, that live connection required is inaccurate. You only need a live connection once so you can verify the game. The information has been distorted from the source.

A micro-transaction system is not at all surprising, it's the new thing for MMO's, DDO has gotten a complete resurrection since the introduction of one. Besides, you don't have to buy anything, and I hope Blizzard knows well enough not to put in game-breaking items. Most micro-trans systems actually do fairly well.
 

SPMiller

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I don't care what Blizzard does or tries to do. There is always a way to pirate every game. People are sufficiently computer-savvy these days that most tactics will fail to stop even unskilled pirates. Blizzard knows this, and so what they're actually doing is preventing pirates from using the multiplayer feature by forcing all players to go through their battle.net system. Had they included LAN functionality, anybody could use V-LAN to get around that.
 
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LOG

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I think they're hoping to just make it so difficult to pirate it that it's not worth the effort ;)
 

Lhun

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I think they're hoping to just make it so difficult to pirate it that it's not worth the effort ;)
That never works. The harder you make it to pirate, the bigger is the incentive to get rid of the DRM bullshit which annoys the customer and doesn't matter to the others. Besides, i doubt it matters one bit to the average downloader how hard it was to create a crack.
 

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The funniest part, IMO, is that they're leaving Activision ... to go to EA???

Man, the game industry is in a world of shit. I don't think any commentary I could write would be any funnier than the facts themselves.
 

cryaegm

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The funniest part, IMO, is that they're leaving Activision ... to go to EA???

Man, the game industry is in a world of shit.
The creators of Infinity Ward didn't leave Activision. Zampella and West were fired because of "breech of contract", or so Activision claimed. And they did it really sneaky when firing those two.
 

SPMiller

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The creators of Infinity Ward didn't leave Activision. Zampella and West were fired because of "breech of contract", or so Activision claimed. And they did it really sneaky when firing those two.
Right, but they're still switching publishers with their new company from Activision to EA. In other words, they're leaving Activision for EA. I thought my wording was pretty damn clear.
 

Lhun

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The funniest part, IMO, is that they're leaving Activision ... to go to EA???

Man, the game industry is in a world of shit. I don't think any commentary I could write would be any funnier than the facts themselves.
Well, there aren't actually all that many publishers anymore. I can't think of many better alternatives after Vivendi and EA are out. Atarigrames is really out of the question, M$ isn't much better. Squeenix Europe maybe, Eidos did make shooters, and Squeenix are a pretty decent company. Can't think of anything else right now.
 
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Fulk

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Well, there aren't actually all that many publishers anymore. I can't think of many better alternatives after Vivendi and EA are out. Atarigrames is really out of the question, M$ isn't much better. Squeenix Europe maybe, Eidos did make shooters, and Squeenix are a pretty decent company. Can't think of anything else right now.

Valve would be better than any of the above, from what I can tell. Granted, they really only publish games they themselves have developed. They just distribute from a ton of other publishers.

I really don't know what to make of everything going on in the gaming industry, or how to set it straight. But I know I'm fed up with EA and Activision. They need competition that won't alienate their customers and developers in the process.
 

cryaegm

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Right, but they're still switching publishers with their new company from Activision to EA. In other words, they're leaving Activision for EA. I thought my wording was pretty damn clear.
Well, when there's not very many publishers out there, you're not going to go with the same publisher that JUST fired you, that screwed you over, and said, "Oh, we're going to have someone else develop and work on your IP, hope you don't mind. Kthnxbai," now are you?

I think not. :p

So, with that said, even though EA themselves isn't the better choice in this matter, you're still not going to go with the same publisher, so yeah, they are going to go with someone else. You may see it as walking from Activision, but I don't. You're not going to start a new company under the same publisher that fired you.
 

LOG

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We could petition the government to shatter apart their companies like they did Microsoft :p
 

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Valve would be better than any of the above, from what I can tell. Granted, they really only publish games they themselves have developed. They just distribute from a ton of other publishers.

Valve has been trying to sell their new philosophy, which is that with each game (and Steam of course) they're providing a service rather than a product. They're also pretty damn light on DRM, which is awesome. Valve of course have an unnatural advantage in that they were founded by ex-Microsoft people and funded by ex-Microsoft money. But I still love them. :D

But I know I'm fed up with EA and Activision. They need competition that won't alienate their customers and developers in the process.

EA has improved somewhat, but whether or not it's genuine and long term remains to be seen. Activision, on the other hand, has gone downhill and overtaken EA in the evil stakes. Which is disappointing because they used to be great. This whole IW thing is insane, even if Zampella and Wst are in the wrong they've been driven there by their working conditions. Any decent manager can tell you, you don't mess with a winning formula and you don't screw your talent around. I blame Bobby Kotick and his quite literally evil policy. Seriously, all the guy needs is a maniacal laugh.

On the subject of Blizzard, they're not owned by Activision. Activision was bought by Vivendi, and merged with Vivendi Games (of which Blizzard was a subsidiary) to form Activision Blizzard, a publishing and distribution group which is almost entirely unrelated to Blizzard as a developer. If anything they've been promote from purely development to being part of the publishing group. Vivendi has been smart enough to let Blizzard do its thing in peace over the last decade, I really don't think they're going to let an upstart (and employee) like Kotick mess with their magic money cow.

Just in case you're interested in this kind of stuff, Valve has been involved in legal action with both Activision and Vivendi over various publishing disagreements - Half-Life and friends were published by Sierra, which was owned by Vivendi Universal and whose remnants are also part of the aforementioned Activision Blizzard. It's a dirty, incestuous little industry sometimes. ;)
 

Lhun

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Valve has been trying to sell their new philosophy, which is that with each game (and Steam of course) they're providing a service rather than a product.
Which is a load of bullshit they're trying to peddle to screw with consumers. It isn't the first time some software company tried this, the idea is to prevent people selling used software, since there's no money in that for the publisher.
There's hardly any mainstream games company at the moment which doesn't treat customers like an enemy.
 

cryaegm

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Activision, on the other hand, has gone downhill and overtaken EA in the evil stakes.
Not to mention what they did to Red Octane after some poor sales with the Guitar Hero Franchise. *Shrugs.* Though, then again, all Bobby Kotick cares about is the money and how much more he milk the games.
 

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Which is a load of bullshit they're trying to peddle to screw with consumers. It isn't the first time some software company tried this, the idea is to prevent people selling used software, since there's no money in that for the publisher.
There's hardly any mainstream games company at the moment which doesn't treat customers like an enemy.

When you buy a piece of software, you're not just getting the end result - you're getting all the work leading up to it. It's like buying a music CD and getting the band. I'm sure this is where someone will jump in and say 'but you can copy a music CD!'. Which is true, but music degrades gradually when copied, making for a built in limit to pirating. One copy of a game can spawn an unlimited number of copies in a very short amount of time. And there's no way you can remaster Britney's latest with your own voice and sell it as your own - whereas there's nothing to stop you in the case of software. All other arguments aside, music has been an established retail product for centuries. Software is not - we don't really know how to sell it, buy it or use it in a way that suits both producer and consumer.

Strictly speaking you're not buying anything - you're leasing. This is why you're explicitly agreeing to a licensing agreement when you install the software. Furthermore, there's nothing to stop you from taking and using their stuff, and selling the software on. This is why, technically, it's a breach of contract to sell software you've purchased. Herein lies the problem - they're selling a 20th century product in an 18th century market. Software isn't suited to mass-market retail. But until someone comes up with a better way to do it, EULAs are the band-aid solution. They don't stand up in court and noone's pretending that they do. We're buying software on the freakin' honesty system, with our fingers crossed behind our backs, and complaining that we have to do that much.

Look at it this way. When Activision keeps pumping out crappy Guitar Hero sequels in hugely expensive boxes, they're treating you like the enemy (and an idiot for that matter). When you sell your old games, you are the enemy and they're fully within their rights to try and stop you. When Valve tries to create a new market that benefits both producer and consumer, and promises to trust their consumers by avoiding DRM, they're treating you like a responsible adult and asking that you do the same. Where's the problem?
 

Lhun

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When you buy a piece of software, you're not just getting the end result - you're getting all the work leading up to it.
Yeah, that's another total bullshit argument. Cars don't grow on trees either. Not even the blueprints for cars grow on trees.
It's like buying a music CD and getting the band. I'm sure this is where someone will jump in and say 'but you can copy a music CD!'. Which is true, but music degrades gradually when copied, making for a built in limit to pirating. One copy of a game can spawn an unlimited number of copies in a very short amount of time.
No it doesn't. A digital medium is a digital medium. Doesn't matter what you put on it, a copied CD is essentially a perfect replica.
None of which matters, because illegal copying, or even illegal selling of illegal copies is no excuse for treating paying customers like shit. And make no mistake, it is only the paying customers who get hit. And don't even get me started on DVDs with unskippable ads and trailers before the movie.
And there's no way you can remaster Britney's latest with your own voice and sell it as your own - whereas there's nothing to stop you in the case of software.
Um yes? The law? Same thing that'll stop you if you try to rip off a musician, or an author or pretty much any producer of intellectual property. Which is the only thing IP law was originally intended to do - prevent people from profiting by selling the works of others. It was not meant as a blunt instrument to be wielded by the industry against competition and customers alike, as is the case today.
All other arguments aside, music has been an established retail product for centuries. Software is not - we don't really know how to sell it, buy it or use it in a way that suits both producer and consumer.
Yes we do. There are companies that aren't hostile towards their very customers. There are even some that don't use DRM at all. And they can still turn a profit. Because, surprise, surprise, you can't stop "piracy" anyway. CD-keys are a proven concept that works, and it does the only thing that is possible: preventing multiple copies of the same software from being used online at the same time. Everything else doesn't. More "protection" is impossible. Assassins Creed 2 has had the probably most draconian DRM yet, requiring constant internet connection, and pausing the game if it ever drops. And yet, it was cracked in under a day.
Strictly speaking you're not buying anything - you're leasing.
Yes that's what the software companies would like me to accept. But it's bullshit. And it has been called bullshit by courts whenever they tried to push it through so far. There are significant differences between leasing and buying contracts, and none of the usual contracts used to make money with software fit a lease. Big companies lease software all the time. But a leasing contract with MS for example means they pay for a service: a running MS Office package, and MS is then obligated to make sure the promised service is being provided. If something breaks down, they have to fix it. If it does not run, they don't get any money (or even pay, depending on the contract). The conditions you usually get when buying a game, for example that whole "software excempt from returns unless unopened" is mutually exclusive with a leasing contracts terms.
This is why you're explicitly agreeing to a licensing agreement when you install the software.
They're not binding actually. A contract you cannot read and agree to before signing (by paying) is never binding. The contract which applies is the store's default policy unless they make an exception for software. But the included EULA is never binding because you can't read it before buying, and they won't let you return the software if you read it but don't want to sign.
Furthermore, there's nothing to stop you from taking and using their stuff, and selling the software on. This is why, technically, it's a breach of contract to sell software you've purchased.
It's not. Many software manufacturers have tried to argue so in court, they've always lost. So they don't get any money when someone else sells on their product? Boo-fucking-hoo. Mercedes doesn't get a single dime from used car sales either. Being extra greedy doesn't give software companies any extra rights.
Herein lies the problem - they're selling a 20th century product in an 18th century market.
On the contrary. They're trying to sell a 20th century product like it was an 18th century market, where the producing guild has total control over all transactions with a certain product.
Look at it this way. When Activision keeps pumping out crappy Guitar Hero sequels in hugely expensive boxes, they're treating you like the enemy (and an idiot for that matter).
Nah, that's just catering to the lowest common denominator. I'm ok with that, i don't have a right to get good games, and they don't have a right to get my money for bad ones. Sooner or later some compromise will be found between producing the cheapest game possible and me not buying it because it's not worth playing.
Treating a customer like the enemy is forcing him to watch annoying anti-piracy ads before a DVD movie. Or forcing him to stay connected to the internet permanently to play a single-player game. Or hiring companies which advertise that they can track down and sue people for copying music at a higher profit margin for the music industry than actually selling the music would have yielded. (Luckily, where i live punitive charges go to the state, not the plaintiff)
When you sell your old games, you are the enemy and they're fully within their rights to try and stop you.
They're not. They're being whiny little children who think their greed is more important than basic consumer rights. They have no more right to prevent someone from reselling a game than an author has to prevent someone from reselling a book.
When Valve tries to create a new market that benefits both producer and consumer, and promises to trust their consumers by avoiding DRM, they're treating you like a responsible adult and asking that you do the same. Where's the problem?
The problem is that Valve doesn't avoid DRM. While it may seem mild in comparison to Ubisoft, Steam is still excessive. Controlling how often i can install a game? Or on how many different machines? None of this is any of their bloody business. If steam would only check online to see if the same registration key was already up and running it'd be still unnecessarily intrusive (forcing one to go online for a single-player game) but somewhat tolerable. But that's not even the real point. The real point is that none of these schemes actually work. The only games that are "piracy" proof are those which have actual online play, i.e. they are in communication with an online server which provides game relevant data. Everything else can and will be cracked. Even a scheme that tries to simulate that (as AC2 shows). The only people who get to deal with the problems those systems cause are the paying customers. Or more precisely, even of those only the paying customers who don't buy the game but still use a crack.
 

SPMiller

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I've cracked games I paid for just to avoid the DRM issues. Lhun pretty much took all the words out of my fingers.

Note, however, that the game industry isn't the only offender. Other segments of the software industry at large are trying the same shit. I desperately hope they continue to fail.
 

Lhun

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Coincidentally, i just read this post on Charles Stross' blog (not by him though) which touches on the issue: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2010/04/why-content-is-a-public-good.html
Games fall under the same category as art, which the article is primarily about. The problem is that modern technology has made software, like other data, a pure public good, and that means the free market system is not an effective way to organize distribution and payment, as un-american as that sounds. Using force isn't going to change that, what's necessary is to find a different system that works.
 

Fulk

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Valve has been trying to sell their new philosophy, which is that with each game (and Steam of course) they're providing a service rather than a product. They're also pretty damn light on DRM, which is awesome. Valve of course have an unnatural advantage in that they were founded by ex-Microsoft people and funded by ex-Microsoft money. But I still love them. :D

And, in the case of their games, it's especially true. When you look at something like Team Fortress 2, they've been supplying free additional content to the game for years, as well as supporting community efforts to create content of their own. Compare this to the trend of DLC, like the $15 Modern Warfare map pack, and Valve is downright angelic.

The problem is that Valve doesn't avoid DRM. While it may seem mild in comparison to Ubisoft, Steam is still excessive. Controlling how often i can install a game? Or on how many different machines? None of this is any of their bloody business. If steam would only check online to see if the same registration key was already up and running it'd be still unnecessarily intrusive (forcing one to go online for a single-player game) but somewhat tolerable.

Not to split hairs, but unless the publisher demands to install their DRM on top of the Steam DRM (a really shitty thing to do, and a practice I don't like), Steam does -not- limit the number of installs for a game or the number of machines. Steam's main selling point is that you can login to Steam from any computer, install your games onto it, and play them. Once the games have been updated, you can play them in offline mode with no need to connect to the internet. The ONLY time an internet connection is necessary with Steam games is to install the game and update it. (again, assuming the publisher hasn't included additional DRM--which Steam notifies you of on product pages)

Hell, with the launch of Steam for Mac, they are using a system called "Steam Play," which allows you to install & play any Valve game you have purchased for PC on your Mac (or vice versa), without any additional charge. Presumably, other publishers can make use of this system too, though I will be surprised if many do. I'm not denying Steam uses DRM--it does. But, seriously, Steam/Valve has got to be one of the most benevolent companies in the industry.

I think the only valid criticism of Steam is that, yes, you can't resell your games. And it sucks, because I do agree you should be able to sell your games if you tire of them, or it's not something you enjoy. While I don't imagine Steam will implement anything for this, it's not an insurmountable problem. They could allow transfer of games from one Steam account to another (say, a friend's.) Or, hell, I might be satisfied to 'turn in' old or unwanted games for some credit in the Steam Store.
 
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