I'll Give You A Choice . . . .

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BlackMagic528

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If you were given a choice between dying figuratively or dying literally - you must choose one or the other (and you've got like five minutes to decide) - which would you choose?

As usual and always, thanks in advance. :)

Kyle
 

Mara

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Figuratively could have lots of different meanings. But if you're talking about the more serious ones, I'll go with physical. Speaking from experience, here. Never physically died, but I know some figurative deaths aren't worth living with.
 

Lhun

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What's the difference?
 

Tatiana

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Gut reaction: physically & literally dead.

I'm thinking a "figurative" death in a way where my body exists and functions, but my mind is gone (like my soul was stolen or something). I might not have the best body in the world, but I'm kind of attached to it and don't want it wandering around without me there!
 
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BlackMagic528

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What's the difference?

Literal death is actually dying - like being lowered into a 6-foot hole wearing your best attire type of death.

Figurative death meaning - and I know I'm being vague - you'd still exist, but just not in the same way you did before. To be a little bit less vague, most (not entirely all) of what you'd consider "you" would be gone and replaced with another entity.

I may or may not reveal the specifics later in the thread. It depends on where the conversation leads. I am talking about a concept I've discussed several times on this site, though. Just coming at it from a different angle this time. :)
 

Albedo

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I'd rather there be some of me left than none. Unless the part left is subject to some sort of eternal torment or something. I'm not big on eternal torment.
 

Lhun

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Literal death is actually dying - like being lowered into a 6-foot hole wearing your best attire type of death.

Figurative death meaning - and I know I'm being vague - you'd still exist, but just not in the same way you did before. To be a little bit less vague, most (not entirely all) of what you'd consider "you" would be gone and replaced with another entity.
My (apparently not visibly sarcastic) point was that i wouldn't really care. Or more precisely, wouldn't care about the choice, because either it's a no-brainer (whatever figurative death may be, it's the better choice because i can always decide later to die if i still want to) or it doesn't really matter either way.
 

RemusShepherd

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What I'm hearing is 'would I like to be possessed by an entity who may or may not be evil but will know enough about me to mimic me and screw with my loved ones'.

Given that choice, I'll take literal death -- and cremate me, please.
 

BlackMagic528

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What I'm hearing is 'would I like to be possessed by an entity who may or may not be evil but will know enough about me to mimic me and screw with my loved ones'.

Given that choice, I'll take literal death -- and cremate me, please.

Not exactly. Not really even close, to be honest. :) ;)
 

BlackMagic528

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Do you folks want me to be less vague?

There will be quite a lot of explaination involved, particularly for those unfamiliar with my writing.
 

Zoombie

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I've played Planescape Torment, where figurative and literal death happens every few minuets and is required to solve several puzzles.

So, I'm going to go with...uh...

Is there an option C?
 

BlackMagic528

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You asked for it . . . .

Okay, if you want detail, here's all the detail you could ever ask for. :)

First, some background:

Both my main novel and it's spinoff series - which, this question is related to the beginning of the spinoff series - are based on the idea that there is and always has been a subsociety of underworld beings living in our world right alongside us humans. Used to be, many centuries ago, they were well out in the open and accepted as just part of the world population. Things changed, for many reasons that are way beyond the scope of this thread, and for the last few centuries, the underworld has existed in virtually complete secrecy from humans. They've also gone to great lengths to erase all records (in human posession) of their existance. Basically, this was all done for the safety of everyone, particularly the underworld beings.

Anyway, all societies, human and not, need some form of government and law (otherwise, you'd have anarchy). In my writing, the underworld government, typically referred to as the Order, is solely responsible for enacting and ultimately enforcing underworld law. Naturally, underworld law encompasses quite a lot, but the most important thing is this: Of all the laws in the underworld, the secrecy laws are the most heavily enforced and the most sternly punished. Violating the secrecy laws is an automatic death sentence except under very rare circumstances.

Here's the part that's interesting: Underworld law applies to everyone. This includes humans, whether they have any knowledge of the existance of the underworld and its laws or not. Humans do, from time to time, violate underworld law unknowingly - and they are captured, tried, and if necessary sentenced regardless of their knowledge of the underworld. Got it? Good. ;)

Enter Kim Riley . . . .

Kim is in serious hot, boiling water - and here's why:

Seventeen months ago, Kim's nephew was kidnapped. By whom, she has no idea. But, in the course of her investigation, Kim discovered the underworld. It was mostly an accident - working an angle that suggested vamparism, she came to the revelation that she was dealing with real vampires (or some other type of vamp). Having made this discovery - and building a very deep-rooted hatred for vamps as she found out more and more - she started collecting evidence of the existance of the underworld. Her intention was to completely blow the lid on the underworld as soon as she felt she'd collected enough evidence - including photos, video, audio, some items stolen from underworld establishments, and other evidence. This was her mistake.

By what can only be described as an unfortunate convergeance of events, Kim became the primary suspect in a series of underworld crimes for which she was completely innocent. And the underworld authorities did eventually discover that she was innocent - but not before also finding out about the evidence she was collecting. So, she was captured and tried for obvious intent to reveal the underworld. After the trial, the time to sentence her came.

And that's what this thread's about.

Kim got . . . galactically (for lack of a better adjective) lucky when it came time for sentencing. As I said, violating the secrecy laws is usually an automatic death sentence. In her case, simply because during her trial she made a fairly good point about the ridiculously lopsided nature of underworld law, the Order decided to give her two options for her sentence:

1. The standard death sentence, to be effective at midnight (which was a bit more than two hours from then).

or

2. She could take a dual sentence of: A) serving the Order, which would imprison her in Clark County (law enforcement is a "jail" sentence, in my writing) and B) joining the vyca collective.

"What is the vyca collective?" you ask . . .

Vyca are a type of vamp (the others being vampires and vixes). For the most part, what's true about vampires is also true about vyca, with only minor variances between the two. The big difference is that vyca are a collective. The exact number of vyca in the world is unknown (assumed to be in the millions) - but for all their numbers, they have only one single mind. Basically, they all share a giant mystical superbrain. All whatever million of them there are equate to a single being.

"What does this mean for Kim?" you ask . . .

If Kim chooses to take the deal, she would be absorbed by the collective. What this means is: Most of Kim, as an individual, would be taken into the collective and . . . well, most of it would be gone, to be honest, but a significant part would remain and become part of the collective's superbrain. So, it's likely - not a guarantee, but likely - she could continue the search for her nephew even after the transition completes - and have the entire collective involved. (To make it as basic as I know how, since Kim views her nephew as family and loves him, once she's in the collective, they would all view her nephew as family and love him.) Understand that this superbrain is not an entity of it's own - it's a collection of the combined minds of all vyca past and present.

I should point out that there is a concept in my writing often referred to as "ownership of the body." It basically states that only one entity can inhabit one body at any given time (with only a few rare exceptions). Vyca follow this rule of nature. Even though they share a mystical connection to each other, each one still "owns" their own body - and certain things that are intrinsically tied to the body stay with the body. (For instance, Kim is gay - both before and after the transition. That's something that does not change, regardless of the collective.)

So, the question is:

Putting yourself in Kim's position, having been tried and now faced with a choice of two sentences:

1. Death

or

2. Serve the Order and join the vyca collective

Which do you choose?

Again, you've got less than five minutes to decide.
 

GregB

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So...die, or be assimilated. Seems we could have gotten to that sooner in the SF forum. :)

Dead, please.
 

benbradley

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Yeah, "Resistance is futile" - and the question is, do you choose to resist?

I think I'd resist the Borg (and then almost surely be killed by them), but that's in the Star Trek Universe.

This story is different, and I'd choose to be "virtually" dead, though I'd wish I owned a Blackberry or iPhone so, assuming I could do it surreptitiously, I could take those five minutes to send an email or forum post or best yet Usenet post (because posts propagate and it quickly becomes near-impossible to delete all the copies on different servers) or two saying "Long story but my body's being taken over, when you see me again, it won't be me, it'll be some other non-human being." And of course from the description of the underworld if I were caught doing that I'd be literally killed anyway. But, like fighting the Borg, I would have tried. :)

Presuming I get my choice I'd want to experience (in what little way I could) THIS "collective" as it's substantially different from Star Trek's Borg - for one thing, this doesn't want to just flat-out destroy Humanity or whatever's in its way - this one wants to stay hidden, and apparently co-exist with Humanity. How it does that, and how it does whatever else it does seems quite intriguing.

I hope that's an acceptable answer. :)
 

Bartholomew

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Joining the collective seems like a no-brainer.

Maybe its because I don't have the whole picture, but if this is the main conflict of your book, I'm not sure the stakes are high enough.
 
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