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Oshodisa
03-31-2010, 03:32 PM
First off - I haven't seen this elsewhere, but if I have missed it I do apologise (and mods, please do what you feel appropriate -move/delete etc)

Secondly - I couldn't resist a inuendo title!


I've just read this link - S Meyer is giving away a novella (based in the Twilight world) online as a thank you to her fans;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/arts_and_culture/8596162.stm

Whats everyones thoughts on this?

shaldna
03-31-2010, 03:34 PM
Yeah, I saw that on the news earlier and I still have the urge to punch someone. When will this woman and her abuse of the english language just go away.

Cyia
03-31-2010, 03:47 PM
It goes on sale first. And those sales, in part, go to the American Red Cross. (Something like $1/copy sold. Considering how many copies Breaking Dawn sold its first day, and the novella's considerably lower prince, that's a pretty good donation by any standard.

No matter what you think of her writing, Meyer deserves some credit for helping out a great cause.

Calla Lily
03-31-2010, 03:58 PM
It goes on sale first. And those sales, in part, go to the American Red Cross. (Something like $1/copy sold. Considering how many copies Breaking Dawn sold its first day, and the novella's considerably lower prince, that's a pretty good donation by any standard.

No matter what you think of her writing, Meyer deserves some credit for helping out a great cause.

This.

Kitty27
03-31-2010, 04:10 PM
Go,Smeyer!

She's donating to a good cause and I have no doubt that her fans will come through.

shaldna
03-31-2010, 04:13 PM
I wonder how much she'll make out of it.

anyway, my personal opinions on her writing aside, I get the feeling that there's some desperate capitisation at work. I just checked her website (my eyes and brain hurt) and I noticed several things.

There's alot of re-releasing of books. Special box sets, reissue of a three year old book (the host - with special 'bonus chapter') etc. And now a supporting novella.

No new material though. It really seems like someone is dragging as much out of the books and their fanbase as possible. Of course a fan is going to buy a reissued book if it contains additional material.

So here's a question, not just related to Meyer, when does it become too much?

By that I mean, when does the promotion and pushing and capitising on something start to overtake any merit the project had in the first place? When does it stop being a book and start becoming a cash cow?

ChristineR
03-31-2010, 04:48 PM
Rowling did something similar with Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them and a book about Quidditch (whose title escapes me). I don't see why Meyer shouldn't do this. Kudos to her, and kudos to the fans who can afford to buy it at the donation price instead of reading it for free.

Phaeal
03-31-2010, 04:50 PM
By that I mean, when does the promotion and pushing and capitising on something start to overtake any merit the project had in the first place? When does it stop being a book and start becoming a cash cow?

Never. It just becomes a book that's also a cash cow. Not surprisingly, the publishing industry will milk its cows until there's no market for the resulting dairy products.

Makes sense to me. Staying with the metaphor, nobody's using cattle prods to make the fans buy. All they have to do to stop the flow is keep their money in their wallets. Just like the rest of us.

BenPanced
03-31-2010, 05:02 PM
Rowling did something similar with Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them and a book about Quidditch (whose title escapes me). I don't see why Meyer shouldn't do this. Kudos to her, and kudos to the fans who can afford to buy it at the donation price instead of reading it for free.
And Tales of Beedle The Bard, and its special edition reproduction of the handmade, handbound book with metal covers and jewels on the binding ($200.00 with less than 1000 created). Didn't see anybody complaining she's exploiting her fans with that, especially when she's a patron of a multiple sclerosis charity.

Wayne K
03-31-2010, 05:11 PM
I'd love to see one successful person give "all" the proceeds to charity instead of this $1 per sale crap.

The other thing I wonder about, is why she couldn't find a charity in the UK

Terie
03-31-2010, 05:19 PM
The other thing I wonder about, is why she couldn't find a charity in the UK


One dollar from each book purchased in the US will be donated to the American Red Cross while anyone who reads the story online will be asked to donate to the charity.

(bolding mine)

Why exactly would you expect her to have money from the US sales go to a UK charity?

icerose
03-31-2010, 05:27 PM
I'd love to see one successful person give "all" the proceeds to charity instead of this $1 per sale crap.

The other thing I wonder about, is why she couldn't find a charity in the UK

Because this is Meyers not Rowling. Meyers is a US citizen. Seems kind of weird she would send donations to another country for giggles.

shaldna
03-31-2010, 05:28 PM
I'd love to see one successful person give "all" the proceeds to charity instead of this $1 per sale crap.




Rowling gave ALL the proceeds from her comic relief books to the charity.

aadams73
03-31-2010, 05:32 PM
anyway, my personal opinions on her writing aside, I get the feeling that there's some desperate capitisation at work. I just checked her website (my eyes and brain hurt) and I noticed several things.

By that I mean, when does the promotion and pushing and capitising on something start to overtake any merit the project had in the first place? When does it stop being a book and start becoming a cash cow?

OH MY GOD! She's trying to make money off her own work?

This is an abomination! Quick, let's call someone! Oh, the horror!

Wayne K
03-31-2010, 05:35 PM
I thought she was a citizen of the UK guys calm down. Wasn't that obvious, or do ya just need someone to snark at today.

Wayne K
03-31-2010, 05:36 PM
Rowling gave ALL the proceeds from her comic relief books to the charity.
This, I respect

shaldna
03-31-2010, 05:38 PM
This, I respect


Me too.

Wayne K
03-31-2010, 05:49 PM
People should consider how they would want someone to respond to them in a situation before being sarcastic and snotty. So with that goodbye, beat the shit out of me if you want, I want nothing to do with this fucking place today.

shaldna
03-31-2010, 05:51 PM
Oh Wayne don't leave me here alone.

charlotte49ers
03-31-2010, 05:54 PM
I think it's really nice!

Jamesaritchie
03-31-2010, 06:35 PM
I wonder how much she'll make out of it.

anyway, my personal opinions on her writing aside, I get the feeling that there's some desperate capitisation at work. I just checked her website (my eyes and brain hurt) and I noticed several things.

There's alot of re-releasing of books. Special box sets, reissue of a three year old book (the host - with special 'bonus chapter') etc. And now a supporting novella.

No new material though. It really seems like someone is dragging as much out of the books and their fanbase as possible. Of course a fan is going to buy a reissued book if it contains additional material.

So here's a question, not just related to Meyer, when does it become too much?

By that I mean, when does the promotion and pushing and capitising on something start to overtake any merit the project had in the first place? When does it stop being a book and start becoming a cash cow?


It becomes too much when the publisher stops making a profit. All books are milk (cash) cows. Some just produce more milk (cash) than others.

Libbie
03-31-2010, 06:49 PM
Yeah, I saw that on the news earlier and I still have the urge to punch someone. When will this woman and her abuse of the english language just go away.

I do not entirely disagree with your sentiment.

That being said, good on her for being in touch with her fans and showing them some appreciation.

Chris P
03-31-2010, 06:50 PM
It really seems like someone is dragging as much out of the books and their fanbase as possible. Of course a fan is going to buy a reissued book if it contains additional material.

So here's a question, not just related to Meyer, when does it become too much?

By that I mean, when does the promotion and pushing and capitising on something start to overtake any merit the project had in the first place? When does it stop being a book and start becoming a cash cow?

Again, it's the art versus business situation. Anyone with the success Meyer has had is going to become part of the money machine. That's how a lot of people, including the author, make a lot of money.

When does it overtake the merit of the project? Never. I still enjoy the Star Wars movies although I nearly broke my parents' bank account making them buy me every toy, poster, book, or record even remotely related to the films. My opinion of Twilight the book series hasn't changed in response to the hubbub. What the ubiquity of Twilight does (just as Star Wars did in the 70s and 80s) is burn people out. I'd be interested in reading the novella.

Libbie
03-31-2010, 06:52 PM
OH MY GOD! She's trying to make money off her own work?

This is an abomination! Quick, let's call someone! Oh, the horror!

And this I FULLY agree with. I may not like her writing, but I would never begrudge a fellow author the right to earn money from her work.

I think it's unnecessarily generous of her to a) offer the novella for free and b) donate $1.00 to the Red Cross for all U.S. sales. She doesn't HAVE to do that at all, and she is virtually guaranteed to sell bazillions of copies of this novella.

Libbie
03-31-2010, 06:54 PM
I thought she was a citizen of the UK guys calm down. Wasn't that obvious, or do ya just need someone to snark at today.

She lives a short ferry ride and a half-hour drive from me. Her house is really quite gorgeous and it must have a lovely view, considering where it sits. The entire Peninsula has gone all Twilight-bonkers. There are Twilight stores in every small town on the road from Seattle and Tacoma to Forks. It must be a little surreal, I'd think, to live in an area that is turning itself into a merchandising machine for your books. I'd actually like to meet Ms. Meyer some day and pick her brain about how that experience has effected (and affected) her.

CheyElizabeth
03-31-2010, 06:55 PM
Me too.

Me three.

scarletpeaches
03-31-2010, 06:55 PM
The fact that she's guaranteed to sell bazillions of copies makes the $1 donation less generous. She can afford it and it won't be a drop in the ocean compared to what she will make personally.

She has the right to make money off her own work, of course - but let's not make out she's some sort of (Latter-Day) Saint for this dollar-per-book thing.

Namatu
03-31-2010, 06:56 PM
It becomes too much when the publisher stops making a profit.This. The publisher's the one coming up with the new product issues. Not the author.

I'm curious. Why is giving all proceeds to charity something to respect, but partial donations are... less worthy somehow? At least, that's how I read some of the above posts. Serious question. Maybe I interpreted the statements in a way that wasn't intended.


The fact that she's guaranteed to sell bazillions of copies makes the $1 donation less generous. She can afford it and it won't be a drop in the ocean compared to what she will make personally.

She has the right to make money off her own work, of course - but let's not make out she's some sort of (Latter-Day) Saint for this dollar-per-book thing.Well, yeah. I guess I operate on the view of something's better than nothing.

scarletpeaches
03-31-2010, 06:58 PM
Partial donations are cool, and it's her money to do with as she will, but let's not deify her.

I always thought discretion was the better part of valour anyway. Why advertise it with a sticker on the book cover?

Which makes me wonder how many other writers donate on the DL...

Libbie
03-31-2010, 06:59 PM
The fact that she's guaranteed to sell bazillions of copies makes the $1 donation less generous. She can afford it and it won't be a drop in the ocean compared to what she will make personally.

She has the right to make money off her own work, of course - but let's not make out she's some sort of (Latter-Day) Saint for this dollar-per-book thing.

You know I'd never saintify Meyer. But she doesn't HAVE to donate ANY money.

And speaking of LDSes, folks, all you who are pissed that she's going to make more money can at least take some comfort in the fact that she'll be giving ten percent of her net income to the Mormon church. (Or maybe you'll feel horror over that. Either emotion is, in my opinion, valid.)

firedrake
03-31-2010, 07:00 PM
I can't help but think that if a more 'well-respected' author was doing the same thing, there would be a lot less sniping.

I don't like her books, I don't like the madness generated by them, but given the number of copies she's likely to sell, it'll be a fair chunk of change in the American Red Cross' coffers.

As a LDS member, she'll be giving a big chunk of $$$ to her church.

ETA: Libbie, get outta my brain :Wha:

Libbie
03-31-2010, 07:02 PM
I used to be LDS (you may all draw a collective gasp of shock and awe now), so my own brain automatically goes there.

icerose
03-31-2010, 07:08 PM
Yeah, I saw that on the news earlier and I still have the urge to punch someone. When will this woman and her abuse of the english language just go away.

I don't think that's very fair or nice. She is a fellow writer whether you like her books or not. If you hate them that much, there are millions of other books to read. Why obsess over something you don't like? For how much you hate her work, there are millions of fans who love it and can't get enough of it. Does your opinion trump theirs. Should her work vanish because it offends your writing sensibilities?



So here's a question, not just related to Meyer, when does it become too much?

Look at Star Wars. They're going on what, 40 years?

Adam
03-31-2010, 07:14 PM
It goes on sale first. And those sales, in part, go to the American Red Cross. (Something like $1/copy sold. Considering how many copies Breaking Dawn sold its first day, and the novella's considerably lower prince, that's a pretty good donation by any standard.

No matter what you think of her writing, Meyer deserves some credit for helping out a great cause.
This :)

BenPanced
03-31-2010, 07:20 PM
Two reasons I'm seeing for the uproar/backlash/whateverz:

1) It's Stephenie Meyer, The Most Horridible Author On The Planet Todaytm (people are upset she's doing something nice so they can't hate her any longer, I guess?)
b. She's singled out a new project for charitable donations so she's therefore fleecing her poor, innocent fans instead of just giving the money to the Red Cross direct from her overflowing coffers. (How dare she teach her fans something about charity and giving of one's self. The noive.)

(Then, too, the rest of U2 have gone on record as saying they roll their eyes and groan every time St. Bono opens his piehole about one of his pet causes.)

Polenth
03-31-2010, 07:53 PM
Partial donations are cool, and it's her money to do with as she will, but let's not deify her.

I always thought discretion was the better part of valour anyway. Why advertise it with a sticker on the book cover?

Which makes me wonder how many other writers donate on the DL...

Part of public donation schemes is marketing the charity. It continues to make money for the charity after the scheme, because the name is fresh in people's mind when they're thinking about who to donate to.

It's suspicious if someone only donates with a lot of fanfare, but I don't get that feeling in this case.

scarletpeaches
03-31-2010, 07:56 PM
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I see.

SP, enlightened.

xXFireSpiritXx
03-31-2010, 08:00 PM
Actually the fan response has been extremely negative overall. Most demanding midnight sun and not giving two craps about Bree. Anyone who can't see what an obvious marketing ploy this is for the Eclipse film needs their eyes checked.

Gillhoughly
03-31-2010, 08:06 PM
Sorry, Ben.

The Most Horridble (albetit less successful) Author On the Planet TodayTM title goes to Cherie J. Gierak (http://www.amazon.com/Circles-Cherie-J-Gierak/dp/0963623737/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1270050095&sr=1-1), based solely on her one word, grammatically incorrect title, Circle's.

Mention it to Teresa Nielsen Hayden at Tor and watch her reaction. (She was once caught shaking a copy of the sequel, Inner Circle's, to loosen some of its excess commas in an attempt to pour them into Circle's.)

As for Meyer---

1) She doesn't control what gets printed by the publisher. They're the ones who come up with all the variations. Certainly she'll trib work, 'cause hey, money!

2) I can't stand her writing. I gave the first book a 50-page read, then hit my gag limit and moved on. Being annoyed that such tripe has seen such success doesn't increase my limited writing time. This sort of thing happens all the time in publishing. You vent and learn to ignore the other writer's career because yours is much more important.

3) While I can't stand her work, she IS doing a good thing for the Red Cross, and doing it better than those greedy clowns at PublishAmerica. This will raise some real money.

4) I have a danged good reason to stay out of bookstores in the Seattle/Tacoma area.


Antidotes:


5) Without buying any Meyerbook, donate to the Red Cross (http://www.redcross.org/) or another charity like Doctors Without Borders or the Humane Society.

6) Take a deep breath and go watch this video as an antidote (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZwM3GvaTRM) to collective Meyer-annoyance. There are better topics to discuss here. Otherwise, Fandom Wank might prove to be an entertaining outlet.

7) Get this T-shirt:


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_jSfEAxsDJi4/SwJM5xNLWJI/AAAAAAAAANM/URZk_531aj8/s320/buffy_staked_edward_mens_tshirt.jpg



8) Look at this picture:


http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/12/23/128745366463023372.jpg


And have a nice night! :D

Cyia
03-31-2010, 08:07 PM
I'd love to see one successful person give "all" the proceeds to charity instead of this $1 per sale crap.

The other thing I wonder about, is why she couldn't find a charity in the UK

It's a novella. How much more than $1/copy do you think she's getting? The rest of the money she'd never get to touch.

kdbeaar
03-31-2010, 08:18 PM
Look at Star Wars. They're going on what, 40 years?

Ouch! That made me feel old.

blacbird
03-31-2010, 08:18 PM
On the thread title: If it ain't "for free", you're not "giving it away".

caw

Shveta
03-31-2010, 08:20 PM
6) Take a deep breath and go watch this video as an antidote (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZwM3GvaTRM) to collective Meyer-annoyance. There are better topics to discuss here. Otherwise, Fandom Wank might prove to be an entertaining outlet.

That video is hilarious! :roll:

BenPanced
03-31-2010, 08:37 PM
8) Look at this picture:


http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/12/23/128745366463023372.jpg


And have a nice night! :D
http://pics.livejournal.com/benpanced/pic/000cc3hk

Medievalist
03-31-2010, 09:27 PM
No new material though. It really seems like someone is dragging as much out of the books and their fanbase as possible. Of course a fan is going to buy a reissued book if it contains additional material.

So here's a question, not just related to Meyer, when does it become too much?

By that I mean, when does the promotion and pushing and capitising on something start to overtake any merit the project had in the first place? When does it stop being a book and start becoming a cash cow?

If you don't want them, just leaves the grapes where they are.

Alan Yee
03-31-2010, 09:33 PM
4) I have a danged good reason to stay out of bookstores in the Seattle/Tacoma area.

We have a TON of bookstores in this area, but I haven't especially noticed a lot of extravagant Twilight displays except in the teen/YA section of the bookstore. Maybe it's just the stores I've been in aren't as Twilight-crazy as the ones you've been to. I'd definitely stay away from the ones in Forks, though.

brokenfingers
03-31-2010, 09:38 PM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/samiamin/HatersGonnaHate.jpg

Phaeal
03-31-2010, 09:48 PM
1) It's Stephenie Meyer, The Most Horridible Author On The Planet Todaytm

Nah, I've seen worse.

Libbie
03-31-2010, 10:01 PM
We have a TON of bookstores in this area, but I haven't especially noticed a lot of extravagant Twilight displays except in the teen/YA section of the bookstore. Maybe it's just the stores I've been in aren't as Twilight-crazy as the ones you've been to. I'd definitely stay away from the ones in Forks, though.

No, you have to get out to the Peninsula to see the Twilight madness in full effect. Port Angeles has two Twilight stores that I noticed just cruising through, and Forks itself has totally reinvented itself as Twilight Town...which, hey, good for Forks. I do hope the momentum keeps up, because it's going to suck if their economy peters out again. It'll be back to servicing the needs of hikers like me, and that is not nearly as lucrative as selling weird trinkets to the Twilighters from seven different Twilight-only shopfronts.

The rest of the greater Seattle area is pretty chill with this stuff, although there is usually some co-op Twilight display at every chain store. IT MAKES A LOT OF MONEY. For everybody involved. Why not?

For those who don't live in this area, Washington is weird. You can divide it vertically based on its geography and you've really got three separate states in one. The Peninsula and the Coast are their own little world. Pugetopolis/the I-5 Corridor is its own little world. And Eastern Washington is its own little world. Smeyer has definitely claimed the Peninsula for France, so to speak. It is all Twilighted to the gills, but that doesn't spill over into Seattle much.

(I am working on taking the Sound for my own. Alan, you can have everything east of the Cascades. ;) )

cwfgal
03-31-2010, 10:08 PM
For those who don't live in this area, Washington is weird. You can divide it vertically based on its geography and you've really got three separate states in one. The Peninsula and the Coast are their own little world. Pugetopolis/the I-5 Corridor is its own little world. And Eastern Washington is its own little world. Smeyer has definitely claimed the Peninsula for France, so to speak. It is all Twilighted to the gills, but that doesn't spill over into Seattle much.


I lived in Pullman for six years (graduated high school there) and after that I spent several years in Bellingham, Sedro Wooley, and Lopez Island. I miss WA, weirdness and all. I have Port Angeles targeted as my retirement home so I may make it back there soon (though I could do without the Twilight madness).

Sorry for the off topic post...we now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

Beth

jennontheisland
03-31-2010, 10:09 PM
Charitable donations = tax credits against other income.

Free or not I still won't read it. My time is more valuable than that.

Alan Yee
03-31-2010, 10:14 PM
I have no problem with her publishers milking the Twilight Saga until it's dried to a husk. It makes money for her, her publishers, and everyone involved. If she wants to donate a portion of the proceeds to the American Red Cross, good for her.

I don't have much of an opinion about the Twilight series since I haven't read the books or seen the movies, but the storyline sounds like something I wouldn't like. I might just read it some day to see if I think it's really as bad as many AWers think it is.


(I am working on taking the Sound for my own. Alan, you can have everything east of the Cascades. ;) )

We're going to have to work something out, because I'm not taking Eastern Washington or the Peninsula. The furthest east I'm ever going to live is Ellensburg, and only because the college I'm going to attend next year is located there.

Toothpaste
03-31-2010, 10:22 PM
Meyer can do whatever she wants. But I hope now the comparisons between her and Rowling will stop.

Every other book that Rowling has put out aside from the Potter 7, 100% of the proceeds have gone to charity. She knows she's richer than the Queen, she knows she doesn't need the money. I respect that woman like mad.

Gillhoughly
03-31-2010, 10:28 PM
Some may have missed the fact that when the Twihards run out of reading material they go looking for stuff by OTHER WRITERS.

L.J. Smith (whose Vampire Diaries written 10 years ago was decaffinated by Meyer who certainly read them when she was in college), Richelle Mead and Rachel Caine, to name a few --all of them light years better in their craft than Meyer-- have benefited from this trend.

The same thing happened back before Anne Rice started channeling Jesus. When her fans tired of re-reading her they went looking for other writers.

The other good news is that many Twi-fans lose their taste for sparkles once they're given something better to read. Tastes mature at different rates.

Sometimes they never mature. I still get mad giggles when I watch Dark Shadows (http://www.collinwood.net/cast/frid.htm). It takes me back to a more innocent time when the worst thing I had to worry about was homework!


My heart still belongs to *** Barnabas! ***
http://showcase.codelphia.net/images/BelaAndBarn.JPG

brainstorm77
03-31-2010, 10:34 PM
Off Topic: What ever happened to that russett potato person? Did she ever publish after?

Medievalist
03-31-2010, 10:35 PM
Publishing fact of life:

Those authors who sell large numbers of books -- Dan Brown, Stephanie Meyer, Stephen King, Robert Jordan, etc. etc. --

They make it possible for publishers to afford to publish authors who aren't guaranteed to sell.

I'm really tired of people whining about this stuff; if you don't like an author, don't buy or read the books.

icerose
03-31-2010, 10:38 PM
Publishing fact of life:

Those authors who sell large numbers of books -- Dan Brown, Stephanie Meyer, Stephen King, Robert Jordan, etc. etc. --

They make it possible for publishers to afford to publish authors who aren't guaranteed to sell.

I'm really tired of people whining about this stuff; if you don't like an author, don't buy or read the books.

Same. I'm just thrilled these authors are getting people, especially young people excited about reading and excited about books. If they can light the fire and passion over reading in those people, then they have created more readers, which is excellent news for every writer.

It just tickles me when books make it big and everyone is talking about them. I wanted to write at a very young age because of that sort of feeling.

Jamesaritchie
03-31-2010, 10:38 PM
Meyer can do whatever she wants. But I hope now the comparisons between her and Rowling will stop.

Every other book that Rowling has put out aside from the Potter 7, 100% of the proceeds have gone to charity. She knows she's richer than the Queen, she knows she doesn't need the money. I respect that woman like mad.

So? Going to charity just means it isn't going to the government. When yoo have the kind of money she has, particularly in England, the choice simply isn't whether to keep it or give it away, it's simply give it to charity, or give it to the government. The tax system is bad enough here, but in England it's a heck of a lot worse.

When she gives have the money she got to keep from the Potter 7 after taxes, then I'll be impressed.

Gillhoughly
03-31-2010, 10:39 PM
Off Topic: What ever happened to that russett potato person? Did she ever publish after?


http://www.sequel-to-breaking-dawn.com/twilight-blog/

She got boring, and her writing is even more boring.

I find it hilarious that the blogger refers to Peter David and Lee Goldberg as being fame-hungry D-list writers--unless it's meant tongue-in-cheek. I hope so!

Otherwise I can assume it is Lady S. herself playing sock puppet yet again, slamming others with labels that so perfectly describe herself.

Only she's not even up to D-list standards.

Sorry, Potatohead.

Um, no. I'm not. You're a lousy thief. I may loathe Meyer's writing, but you've got no right to steal from her or anyone else.

The only reason there's no fresh anti-press about you is because you're not worth the time. Also look up the definition of "boring." Your name will be there someplace.

.

scarletpeaches
03-31-2010, 10:39 PM
So? Going to charity just means it isn't going to the government. When yoo have the kind of money she has, particularly in England, the choice simply isn't whether to keep it or give it away, it's simply give it to charity, or give it to the government. The tax system is bad enough here, but in England it's a heck of a lot worse.

When she gives have the money she got to keep from the Potter 7 after taxes, then I'll be impressed.England?

Huh. There was me thinking she lived in SCOTLAND.

brainstorm77
03-31-2010, 10:40 PM
http://www.sequel-to-breaking-dawn.com/twilight-blog/

She got boring, and her writing is even more boring.

Thanks. For some reason the other day that whole thread came to mind.

cuddlekins
03-31-2010, 10:49 PM
A novella at 192 pages? Well that's something.

Gillhoughly
03-31-2010, 11:03 PM
Yes, very useful as bird cage lining! :evil

Oh--you're talking about Meyer, not Lady S.

Never mind.

Getting coffee now.

Anyway, page count doesn't matter, it's word count.

I have a 140-page book, but it's 53K words long. Creative formatting and font size were employed to save paper and keep the costs down.

Technically a shorter novel, but not short enough to be a novella (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_count), which ranges from 17,500-40K words.

Besides, the more rabid (and cheapskate) fans will be downloading free copies from share sites within seconds of her title being offered for sale.

milly
03-31-2010, 11:08 PM
Some may have missed the fact that when the Twihards run out of reading material they go looking for stuff by OTHER WRITERS.



THIS IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE...I can personally attest to this. Here's my story:

I work in an office with 9 women who are staffmembers. This past fall, with all the madness about New Moon floating about in anticipation of the movie release in November, I convinced two women in my office to read Twilight. I did this for several reasons:

1. These two women (age 35 and 41) had not read a single book since high school and one of them had not actually finished a novel even then

2. I know their personalities and I was certain they'd enjoy reading if they could find something to get them interested. For that reason, I did not start them off with Fitzgerald or Hardy though I hope to get them there someday. Instead, I thought...let them get excited and caught up in something that others are talking about and they'll do it. They will actually READ a freaking book.

3. I had read the entire series myself and I (*ducking for fear of being struck with hurling tomatoes*) actually enjoyed them and though I did not think the writing was that great...the story was one that kept me wanting to read. I knew that this kind of book is what would make them want to read too.

4. Flash ahead three weeks later...New Moon release set for midnight Thursday night at our local theatre. At this point, the two ladies I'd suggested read Twilight had not only finished the novel but had completed the entire series, one of them having read it nearly two times through. In addition to those two women, another four of the remaining women in my office had started reading them and were already into Eclipse.

5. Today, five months later, these first two women, women who had not read a single book in over 20 years, have been reading books of my choosing along with me. We've read Lovely Bones, Time Traveller's Wife, Revolutionary Road, Water for Elephants, Bel Ami, and now, John Irving's A Widow for One Year.

6. I am progressing them into reading and they absolutely love it.

So...from my experience anyway, if Meyer's books got them to read then I don't see how you can fault her despite the writing. These women are now populating bookstores, putting money in writer's and publisher's pockets which is what we all should be hoping continues to happen. They ask me about poetry and about plot structure and style. It's insane but my staff members now feel like they are part of something, something that is so much bigger than Twilight or Meyer...they are part of the reading world now, going to coffee shops and doing the things that they associate with being smart or interesting because they see reading as something now that defines them.

Hats Off to Stephenie Meyer...I now have friends who'll read what I suggest when just six months ago they refused to even read the jacket cover of books I was immersed in without getting bored. I'm not saying that my suggestions are wonderful, but, I'm hitting things that I know will keep them interested and mixing in things that I think are written better. Sorry folks...just shoot me now if you disagree with me. I can take it.

For now...back to work...shooting off an email to my fellow office readers about the book we're tackling next...and you won't believe it- "Wuthering Heights" They are all so excited! :):):)

Gillhoughly
03-31-2010, 11:15 PM
YAY, MILLY!!!!

I give kudos to you for "corrupting" those ladies so subtly and so thoroughly!

Try the Morganville Vampires by Rachel Caine (http://www.rachelcaine.com/page1/page1.html) on them sometime. They're really GOOD books.

Just shows what a real writer can do, given the chance.

Toothpaste
03-31-2010, 11:30 PM
So? Going to charity just means it isn't going to the government. When yoo have the kind of money she has, particularly in England, the choice simply isn't whether to keep it or give it away, it's simply give it to charity, or give it to the government. The tax system is bad enough here, but in England it's a heck of a lot worse.

When she gives have the money she got to keep from the Potter 7 after taxes, then I'll be impressed.

lol, you are telling me that her giving all the money made on those other books to charity is not remotely charitable as otherwise she would have been giving it all away in taxes? Really? So you are saying she wouldn't have made a single pence (since we're talking UK here) on those books after taxes, so she might as well give it away?

That makes absolutely no sense, of course she would have earned money on those books after taxes.

The point is she took absolutely no money from those books at all. She gave it ALL away. But nice rant on the tax system.

And why on earth should she give away the money she earned on the Potter series? You're telling me you would be impressed if she gave away her earnings, but . . . then she would be dirt poor. So in your mind true generosity only comes when you give everything to others and keep nothing for yourself? I guess that's fair enough, but I find that impractical.

Look sure she earned a lot on the Potter books. But the point is that since she earned that much she is now free to give away all other earnings on those other books. She has also been able to take advantage of her fame by being involved in many different charities:


She has set up the Volant Charitable Trust, which supports a wide number of causes related to social deprivation and associated problems, particularly as they affect women and children. The Trust has funded a variety of projects in the UK and abroad. It also supports research into the causes and treatment of Multiple Sclerosis.
www.volanttrust.com (http://www.volanttrust.com/)
As a postgraduate, Jo worked at the London office of Amnesty International, doing research into human rights abuses in Francophone Africa.
www.amnesty.org.uk (http://www.amnesty.org.uk/)
For seven years she was an Ambassador of One Parent Families, now called Gingerbread, a charity working with lone parents and their children. In 2007 she took an honorary position as President for the charity.
www.gingerbread.org.uk (http://www.gingerbread.org.uk/)
Since 1999 J K Rowling has been a supporter of the Multiple Sclerosis Society Scotland, for nine of those years as its Patron. Having lost her mother to MS at the age of 45, this is one of the causes closest to Jo’s heart and her support has included planning and hosting fundraising events, directly lobbying politicians, writing articles and giving interviews to raise awareness of this very Scottish disease, and contributing significant funds for research in Scotland, including research establishments in Edinburgh and Aberdeen. She has recently stepped down as Patron of the charity but continues to fund MS research directly.
www.mssocietyscotland.org.uk (http://www.mssocietyscotland.org.uk/)
In 2005 J K Rowling co-founded the Children’s High Level Group (CHLG) with Baroness Emma Nicholson MEP, inspired by a press report she read about children in caged beds in institutions in the Czech Republic. This charity aims to make life better for young people in care, in Eastern Europe and ultimately all over the world. In 2007 J K Rowling auctioned for CHLG a copy of one of the seven special editions of The Tales of Beedle the Bard, which raised £1.95 million. In December 2008 the book was widely published in aid of the charity and became the fastest-selling book of that year.
www.chlg.org (http://www.chlg.org/)


Say what you want to in your cynical way, but this woman has clearly understood that when you've been blessed in your life you give back.

stormie
03-31-2010, 11:32 PM
THIS IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE...I can personally attest to this. Here's my story:
....
1. These two women (age 35 and 41) had not read a single book since high school and one of them had not actually finished a novel even then

2. I know their personalities and I was certain they'd enjoy reading if they could find something to get them interested. For that reason, I did not start them off with Fitzgerald or Hardy though I hope to get them there someday. Instead, I thought...let them get excited and caught up in something that others are talking about and they'll do it.
....
..the two ladies I'd suggested read Twilight had not only finished the novel but had completed the entire series....
5. Today, five months later, these first two women, women who had not read a single book in over 20 years, have been reading books of my choosing along with me. We've read Lovely Bones, Time Traveller's Wife, Revolutionary Road, Water for Elephants, Bel Ami, and now, John Irving's A Widow for One Year.

Years ago my SIL wasn't reading any book. I got her started on a Danielle Steele book. She found she loved reading books, and now reads every book she can get her hands on.

So if S.Meyer can get non-readers to read, more power to her.

Good for you, milly :)

Southern Girl
03-31-2010, 11:33 PM
THIS IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE...I can personally attest to this. Here's my story:

I work in an office with 9 women who are staffmembers. This past fall, with all the madness about New Moon floating about in anticipation of the movie release in November, I convinced two women in my office to read Twilight. I did this for several reasons:

1. These two women (age 35 and 41) had not read a single book since high school and one of them had not actually finished a novel even then

2. I know their personalities and I was certain they'd enjoy reading if they could find something to get them interested. For that reason, I did not start them off with Fitzgerald or Hardy though I hope to get them there someday. Instead, I thought...let them get excited and caught up in something that others are talking about and they'll do it. They will actually READ a freaking book.

3. I had read the entire series myself and I (*ducking for fear of being struck with hurling tomatoes*) actually enjoyed them and though I did not think the writing was that great...the story was one that kept me wanting to read. I knew that this kind of book is what would make them want to read too.

4. Flash ahead three weeks later...New Moon release set for midnight Thursday night at our local theatre. At this point, the two ladies I'd suggested read Twilight had not only finished the novel but had completed the entire series, one of them having read it nearly two times through. In addition to those two women, another four of the remaining women in my office had started reading them and were already into Eclipse.

5. Today, five months later, these first two women, women who had not read a single book in over 20 years, have been reading books of my choosing along with me. We've read Lovely Bones, Time Traveller's Wife, Revolutionary Road, Water for Elephants, Bel Ami, and now, John Irving's A Widow for One Year.

6. I am progressing them into reading and they absolutely love it.

So...from my experience anyway, if Meyer's books got them to read then I don't see how you can fault her despite the writing. These women are now populating bookstores, putting money in writer's and publisher's pockets which is what we all should be hoping continues to happen. They ask me about poetry and about plot structure and style. It's insane but my staff members now feel like they are part of something, something that is so much bigger than Twilight or Meyer...they are part of the reading world now, going to coffee shops and doing the things that they associate with being smart or interesting because they see reading as something now that defines them.

Hats Off to Stephenie Meyer...I now have friends who'll read what I suggest when just six months ago they refused to even read the jacket cover of books I was immersed in without getting bored. I'm not saying that my suggestions are wonderful, but, I'm hitting things that I know will keep them interested and mixing in things that I think are written better. Sorry folks...just shoot me now if you disagree with me. I can take it.

For now...back to work...shooting off an email to my fellow office readers about the book we're tackling next...and you won't believe it- "Wuthering Heights" They are all so excited! :):):)

Love this.

I loathe the writing, can't stand the movies (except to cougar drool over the boys - another discussion for another time), but I do like the concept. If the books get someone to read - I'm all for it. Chances are, the readers won't stop at SMeyer - they'll continue to absorb.

Baby steps, I tell ya.

milly
03-31-2010, 11:40 PM
YAY, MILLY!!!!

I give kudos to you for "corrupting" those ladies so subtly and so thoroughly!

Try the Morganville Vampires by Rachel Caine (http://www.rachelcaine.com/page1/page1.html) on them sometime. They're really GOOD books.

Just shows what a real writer can do, given the chance.

total corruption and they don't even see it *laughing hahahaha*

I think after we finish Wuthering Heights, I'll slip in a little Henry Miller..."Tropic of Cancer" might make them squirm a little but I guaran-damn-tee you that they won't be able to put it down. We're almost there people!!!! ;):)

milly
03-31-2010, 11:42 PM
Love this.

I loathe the writing, can't stand the movies (except to cougar drool over the boys - another discussion for another time), but I do like the concept. If the books get someone to read - I'm all for it. Chances are, the readers won't stop at SMeyer - they'll continue to absorb.

Baby steps, I tell ya.

I agree...and these women haven't stopped. One of the others has made it through almost all of the Nicholas Sparks books (though I'm not a fan, she IS reading) and another one is reading The Secret Life of Bees. It's like a revolution here...a glorious transformation of these middle aged women that is not only noticeable, but is inspiring for me. I've never written so much in my life as I have these last few months!

Cella
03-31-2010, 11:44 PM
I don't have any problem with SM. People mocking the intelligence of her fans doesn't accomplish anything, either. (<--general statement; not referencing anything here.)

She's inspired many people to read and even try writing for themselves; things that they may have not pursued otherwise.

I say good for her :)

milly
03-31-2010, 11:53 PM
BTW...will every single woman in my office and many of their friends go out and buy this novella even after reading every bit of it from the online free version??

ABSOLUTELY...the publishing industry will feel the reverberations and maybe that means some of us will get a shot one day too.

*clearing throat and swallowing nervously, thinking that I should not be ashamed that I will totally get a copy for myself too, laughing internally that so many will think me a nut for the purchase since I've been so obsessed with Philip Roth lately and he's as FAR from Meyer as you can get...proud of myself for acknowleding my current state of flux*

:):)

gothicangel
04-01-2010, 12:17 AM
I'm actually with Wayne and Shaldna on this one.

I would be horrified if people started seeing me as a one trick writer.

milly
04-01-2010, 12:38 AM
some people don't even have one trick...are we all here writing, only for ourselves as if getting published doesn't matter?

I'm sure there are some and that's fine, commendable even, but, even if you are not about being published, I don't know anyone on AW or any others I know that are not part of this forum who don't want someone ELSE to love what he or she has written.

If she is a one trick pony well, I'm sure, as with anything else, you'll find people who love the one trick to the point of forgiving the pony for not having more. But, if she's good at telling this one kind of story in her own way and she can't do anything else, AT LEAST SHE DID IT...SHE FINISHED SEVERAL NOVELS, SHE FINISHED THEM and if the only other option for her, assuming she was scared of being a one trick writer, was to not write at all...I'd bet she would write this shit over and over and over again.

I like to think that whether my writing is good or bad, if I find someone who enjoys it, drives me crazy about it with questions, falls in love with my characters, then I'll stick with it even if I never do anything else.

Helen Keller said, "I cannot do everything but still I can do something...I will not refuse to do the something I can do!"

You dont' have to like her, hell, you can HATE her...but hating the idea of a one trick writer or singers who are one hit wonders well...you can't forget how those people made you feel when they wrote or sang what they did. That's what I hear from people. Stephenie Meyer can never feel bad for having accomplished that whether she ever writes another freaking word!!!

Whew...I need a drink...waiter?? Miss???

milly
04-01-2010, 12:44 AM
I'm back...refreshed...just one more thought!

I will admit, I loathe the idea that I might actually one day get published only to have people read my work, love it, and then leave it, calling me a flash in the pan, washed up, etc. That is terrifying.

I am sure it is terrifying for her. But, we are all writers. I want to get someone to love it first and I'll worry about one trick writer status later. I think we all need to focus on what "tricks" we have up our sleeves before we even consider the issue of having more than one.

There are lots of great writers whose books never see the light of day. I want mine to see the damn noon-day sun in the dead of a Florida July so, for now, I'm working on my story...on my ability to make people fall in love with a world of my making. If I do that...I will have succeeded!

gothicangel
04-01-2010, 12:48 AM
I want to build a career as a writer. I want to show the world just how good I am. Why would I want to restrict myself?

You can call me a literary snob, but I want to be taken seriously.

scarletpeaches
04-01-2010, 12:51 AM
I don't buy all this 'at least she's getting people reading' shit anyway.

'At least'? As if we should settle, not aspire?

That's like saying "I eat Big Macs all day - they're shit, but at least I'm eating."

Bubastes
04-01-2010, 12:56 AM
If reading Twilight now means they might be reading Revolutionary Road later like Milly's friends, I don't see what the problem is.

scarletpeaches
04-01-2010, 12:56 AM
I wonder what that mental YouTubing chick reads?

nuttymadam, that's her name.

Maxinquaye
04-01-2010, 01:04 AM
Stephenie Meyers, James Patterson, and Dan Brown (get your pitchforks out now, folks) are like the McDonalds of the book world. It's what you go to when you have 15 minutes to get something in you on the way to something else. If that's the standard some writers aspire to, well, good luck to them.

I can, in light of the obvious context of sparkly vampires here, quote that little girl-vampire from Interview with the Vampire: I want some more.

Saying "You're an awful person for not putting a hand-cooked three course dinner made by a very good chef on the same level as a Big Mac & Fries. In fact, you're a snob!" is ridiculous.

It's not disrespect to the writer to say that Faulkner, Steinbeck, Stephen King, Ian Ranking are much better writers than Meyers, Patterson and Brown. They are. Objectively. Respectfully. Truthfully.

They sell a whole lot more Big Macs than beuf borgogne in the world. It does not mean that Big Macs are better nutritionally, artistically, palatably, and so on.

BenPanced
04-01-2010, 01:05 AM
READING TWILIGHT CAN ONLY LEAD TO "THE HARD STUFF"!

Whateverinnahell that is...

milly
04-01-2010, 01:11 AM
I don't buy all this 'at least she's getting people reading' shit anyway.

'At least'? As if we should settle, not aspire?

That's like saying "I eat Big Macs all day - they're shit, but at least I'm eating."

I guess it depends on how you define aspiration and to whom you intend on fixing it's aim...people are reading now because of these books. It is a FACT!

If the absolute best thing that someone can say about my writing one day is, "at least her book made someone want to read" I would be happy with that. It doesn't mean I would be pleased with what I've written. I don't think any writer is every happy with their own work no matter what they aspire to. But, I would be pleased that it made a difference to someone other than me. It made something happen that if the story had been kept in my head would not have happened.

I am arguing this so adamantly because I feel with 100% certainty that the 9, count them, NINE women who've been transformed by this phenomenon, would not have finished a chapter of the books that I read IF they had started with those books first.

It's like kids...we don't start them on CS Lewis when they finally learn to read sentences...we give them a little Green Eggs and Ham and then some Charlotte's Web and then some Old Yeller or Where the Red Fern Grows until they are confident enough and enjoying the experience enough to venture in to The Chronicles of Narnia and so on.

You don't have to buy it and I will take the punches if and when they come, but it's a fact and for me, to declare such a thing is an epistemological conundrum for me but I can't help myself. I've seen what has happened. These women are new people and they've fallen in love with something that we've all been in love with for as long as many of us can remember.

And yes, they are reading the "good stuff" now and they want to read more of it, a few of them knocking out two or more novels a week. It fills my heart to know that they're lives are so changed by something so wonderful as a good book.

I would be honored if it had been my book that got them there.

*pulling into the McDonald's drive thru now for a pick me up!*

scarletpeaches
04-01-2010, 01:13 AM
Actually, some kids DID start on CS Lewis. I was one of them.

DeadlyAccurate
04-01-2010, 01:15 AM
I don't buy all this 'at least she's getting people reading' shit anyway.

'At least'? As if we should settle, not aspire?

That's like saying "I eat Big Macs all day - they're shit, but at least I'm eating."

No, it's more like trying to get someone who thinks Velveeta is the epitome of cheese to try Humboldt Fog by first handing them some mild cheddar.

Baby steps.


(True story: I was grocery shopping in Walmart one day when another customer asked me what Colby Jack tasted like. She was afraid to try it, because she thought it would be a strong cheese).

aadams73
04-01-2010, 01:16 AM
Who gives a rat's ass what people read, so long as they're reading something they enjoy?

We're entertainers. Nothing more. It's our job to tell stories and entertain people. If they're not entertained by one thing, why get all bent out of shape when they do choose something that entertains them?

People are speaking with their wallets. If they like Twilight, so be it! Great. Good for them. It's not my cup of tea, so I'll go over here and pick up something I do like without taking a whizz on their choices.

Christ, people, you act like Stephenie Meyer/Patterson/King/Whomever is personally coming to your houses and yanking food out of your mouths. It's crazy!

And if those of you who are unpublished think you can write something better, hey, prove it. I'll give it a read if what you write makes it onto a shelf. IF.

scarletpeaches
04-01-2010, 01:16 AM
If people move on to other books, great.

I see so many people who stick to Twilight and ONLY Twilight, though.

For the record I've read all four books in the series - wouldn't be fair of me to pass judgement unless I had - and in fact read the first one twice, just to clarify it really IS that bad.

My dad bought me the DVD too, but only 'cause he knows I'm all cougar for rpattz.

scarletpeaches
04-01-2010, 01:19 AM
Two points: Taylor Lautner is also made of RAWR.

Secondly, I was just eating a Big Mac and smeyer walked in the room and hauled it out of my mouth. Bitch.

mscelina
04-01-2010, 01:19 AM
Anything that turns kids away from their Facebook pages and Gameboys to reading is a good thing. So Meyer doesn't appeal to everyone--most writers especially. That's fine. She's not writing for US--she's writing for a very specific target market. Obviously the Twilight series is meeting a very specific need in the market. Who are we to argue with that?

Harry Potter got my kids to love reading. Now my oldest is working her way steadily through my biographies and autobiographies and my youngest has developed an affection for Dickens--and both read my books and beta them from a reader's perspective. Although they were raised by a mother with hundreds of books on hand, it was that first HP book that made them want to read.

Meyer is accomplishing the same thing for the kids born half a generation after the HP crowd. More power to her.

Gillhoughly
04-01-2010, 01:28 AM
I'll also remind everyone that there is no competition in commercial publishing.

Because they can read them faster than WE can write them.

We just have to write well enough to sell, rinse, repeat.


Going back to my WIP, a mystery with a (gasp-horrors!) literary bent.

Damn me for reading some Dorothy Parker the other week! :evil

milly
04-01-2010, 01:31 AM
Stephenie Meyers, James Patterson, and Dan Brown (get your pitchforks out now, folks) are like the McDonalds of the book world. It's what you go to when you have 15 minutes to get something in you on the way to something else. If that's the standard some writers aspire to, well, good luck to them.

I can, in light of the obvious context of sparkly vampires here, quote that little girl-vampire from Interview with the Vampire: I want some more.

Saying "You're an awful person for not putting a hand-cooked three course dinner made by a very good chef on the same level as a Big Mac & Fries. In fact, you're a snob!" is ridiculous.

It's not disrespect to the writer to say that Faulkner, Steinbeck, Stephen King, Ian Ranking are much better writers than Meyers, Patterson and Brown. They are. Objectively. Respectfully. Truthfully.

They sell a whole lot more Big Macs than beuf borgogne in the world. It does not mean that Big Macs are better nutritionally, artistically, palatably, and so on.


There are levels of writing, the good the bad the ugly and the WTF?

There is no doubt-objectively! I agree!

But when the issue is whether someone will read it or want to read it, then I think the lines between those levels get blurred. That is when the subjective interests of readers come into play.

I too want my writing to be as good as it can be. It is strange to me that some think that you are a somehow lesser writer or reader if you enjoy Meyer's work. I am not trying to emulate her but, I do hope I inspire others the way she does.

mscelina
04-01-2010, 01:31 AM
LOL--

"Gilloughly has run the gamut of emotions from A to B."

Sorry, couldn't resist. Dorothy is one of my faves.

milly
04-01-2010, 01:33 AM
Actually, some kids DID start on CS Lewis. I was one of them.

then I must be wrong ;)

milly
04-01-2010, 01:37 AM
If people move on to other books, great.

I see so many people who stick to Twilight and ONLY Twilight, though.

For the record I've read all four books in the series - wouldn't be fair of me to pass judgement unless I had - and in fact read the first one twice, just to clarify it really IS that bad.

My dad bought me the DVD too, but only 'cause he knows I'm all cougar for rpattz.

It was hard getting them to move on from Twilight, it really was, but, when they did it, their appetites for more were voracious (no pun intended)

well...rpattz...NOW I'm getting a little fidgety over here...my coyness is starting to show as I back away from my computer with hunched shoulders...giggling like a silly teenager

mscelina
04-01-2010, 01:39 AM
It was hard getting them to move on from Twilight, it really was, but, when they did it, their appetites for more were voracious (no pun intended)

well...rpattz...NOW I'm getting a little fidgety over here...my coyness is starting to show as I back away from my computer with hunched shoulders...giggling like a silly teenager

You're doing just fine. :)

katiemac
04-01-2010, 01:58 AM
Partial donations are cool, and it's her money to do with as she will, but let's not deify her.

I always thought discretion was the better part of valour anyway. Why advertise it with a sticker on the book cover?

Which makes me wonder how many other writers donate on the DL...

Because marketing the donations on the actual book isn't just a push for Meyer. It is an excellent, excellent push for the American Red Cross. It's not, you know, Meyer being pretentious about it. It's raising awareness about the charity itself.

Every press release about this and subsequently ever story published (or blogged or posted on a forum) about this novella will mention the Red Cross. They are getting millions of dollars worth of PR in addition to the actual money from sales.

It's also reaching a large group of youths who may soon be able to make donations themselves, or suggest their parents do so.

HelloKiddo
04-01-2010, 02:17 AM
Stephenie Meyers, James Patterson, and Dan Brown (get your pitchforks out now, folks) are like the McDonalds of the book world. It's what you go to when you have 15 minutes to get something in you on the way to something else. If that's the standard some writers aspire to, well, good luck to them.

I can, in light of the obvious context of sparkly vampires here, quote that little girl-vampire from Interview with the Vampire: I want some more.

Saying "You're an awful person for not putting a hand-cooked three course dinner made by a very good chef on the same level as a Big Mac & Fries. In fact, you're a snob!" is ridiculous.

It's not disrespect to the writer to say that Faulkner, Steinbeck, Stephen King, Ian Ranking are much better writers than Meyers, Patterson and Brown. They are. Objectively. Respectfully. Truthfully.

They sell a whole lot more Big Macs than beuf borgogne in the world. It does not mean that Big Macs are better nutritionally, artistically, palatably, and so on.

Thank you for this excellent post.



Meyer is a very polarizing author. How do you know she doesn't turn off at least as many people as she turns on?

Synonym
04-01-2010, 02:24 AM
She lives a short ferry ride and a half-hour drive from me. Her house is really quite gorgeous and it must have a lovely view, considering where it sits. The entire Peninsula has gone all Twilight-bonkers. There are Twilight stores in every small town on the road from Seattle and Tacoma to Forks. It must be a little surreal, I'd think, to live in an area that is turning itself into a merchandising machine for your books. I'd actually like to meet Ms. Meyer some day and pick her brain about how that experience has effected (and affected) her.

I'd love to sit in on that meeting. That's something I wonder about. Huge success and how it changes your day-to-day life, and your family also.

Phaeal
04-01-2010, 02:46 AM
People are speaking with their wallets. If they like Twilight, so be it! Great. Good for them. It's not my cup of tea, so I'll go over here and pick up something I do like without taking a whizz on their choices.

Christ, people, you act like Stephenie Meyer/Patterson/King/Whomever is personally coming to your houses and yanking food out of your mouths. It's crazy!

.

Yup, the wallet rules in this case, and it's not nice to make fun of what people enjoy. Especially when they might have knives.

I don't need to see Stephenie and James, but if Stephen would come to my house, I'll GIVE him all my food. Even the chocolate.

Tepelus
04-01-2010, 04:59 AM
This thread is just a repeat of past threads, of which I'm sure will share in their fate sooner or later.

shaldna
04-01-2010, 12:00 PM
I'm actually with Wayne and Shaldna on this one.

I would be horrified if people started seeing me as a one trick writer.


My point with that was that, havign spent 15 minutes on her website, there is alot of stuff about twilight, and, to a lesser extent, the host.

But nothing new.

Now, I appreciate that Meyer is still relatively new to this career, I mean, she's only been around for five or six years, which we tend to forget because of how huge twilight became, and after that anyone needs a break.

But my point (for those of who you instantly jumped on 'if you don't like it' and 'sour grapes' wagons without actually reading the question) is that I for one get the feeling that the goal now isn't to sell fans books, it's to sell them teeshirts, skateboards, dolls etc.

Now, someone else mentioned star wars, which is very valid because it had the same type of momentum with regards to the additional stuff like models etc.

It seems that books are becoming brands now more than before.

And while the goal for the publisher etc is definately to make money, no one is disputing that, but from a personal pov, how would you guys feel about your book becoming a brand? good? bad? indifferent?

brokenfingers
04-01-2010, 12:09 PM
And while the goal for the publisher etc is definately to make money, no one is disputing that, but from a personal pov, how would you guys feel about your book becoming a brand? good? bad? indifferent?

I'm curious as to who would be against it. And why.

Medievalist
04-01-2010, 12:19 PM
It's not disrespect to the writer to say that Faulkner, Steinbeck, Stephen King, Ian Ranking are much better writers than Meyers, Patterson and Brown. They are. Objectively. Respectfully. Truthfully.

Trewely, y saye to že, that none of thise auctoritees commeth nigh unto mine gode frende Geoffrye Chaucer. Et aussi, Dan Chaucer have gret capacity for beere.

shaldna
04-01-2010, 12:26 PM
I'm curious as to who would be against it. And why.


I guess it depends what you want from your writing career. Some people only want to write serious literary novels and might balk at the idea of becoming a sort of commercial explosion.

brokenfingers
04-01-2010, 12:30 PM
So, I'm curious: Having people love your work and wanting more of it - a la whatever you publish and/or produce is bad for this how?

How does that negatively affect writing a serious literary novel? Or does part of a literary novel's success depend on a large portion of people not liking it or spending money on it?

shaldna
04-01-2010, 12:37 PM
So, I'm curious: Having people love your work and wanting more of it - a la whatever you publish and/or produce is bad for this how?

I'm not talking about people buying the book. I'm talking about all the other stuff. When you're book become a brand.



How does that negatively affect writing a serious literary novel? Or does part of a literary novel's success depend on a large portion of people not liking it or spending money on it?

Someone mentioned above about being taken seriously. That's why I mentioned it.

brokenfingers
04-01-2010, 12:47 PM
Since books written with the express intent of being taken "seriously" rarely achieve commercial success (that not being the indicator of success for those books) then I seriously doubt it's worth worrying over for anyone who chooses to go that route.

Medievalist
04-01-2010, 12:51 PM
Whan žat mine leve frende Geoffrye Chaucer did receive his paye as že Clerke of že Kingis Works, yt was bot 30 punds anum. Ye, verily, žise maker was payde in beer, well I wot!

scarletpeaches
04-01-2010, 04:17 PM
Lay off the beer, Lisa. You've turned pink again.

swvaughn
04-01-2010, 04:20 PM
Whan žat mine leve frende Geoffrye Chaucer did receive his paye as že Clerke of že Kingis Works, yt was bot 30 punds anum. Ye, verily, žise maker was payde in beer, well I wot!

John?

icerose
04-01-2010, 05:00 PM
I'm not talking about people buying the book. I'm talking about all the other stuff. When you're book become a brand.



Someone mentioned above about being taken seriously. That's why I mentioned it.

It would be mind boggling and surreal but I'd love it because it meant people loved my books that much and it affected their lives THAT much. It would also give a boost to other writers and my other books.

Namatu
04-01-2010, 05:20 PM
Ye, verily, žise maker was payde in beer, well I wot!Beer? Share!

I don't care about writing a literary anything. I don't read many contemporary literary novels (classics excepted). I read for the funny and entertaining, and for me that's not in literary. Except for this beer thing Medievalist is talking about. I could read more of that.

Also, no to the branding. It's too much. I like relative anonymity and reasonable expectations.

shaldna
04-01-2010, 06:03 PM
Oh, on an interesting note, found this on www.breetanner.com (don't ask me what I was doing.)


Hachette Book Group is helping people affected by disasters like the Haiti Earthquake by donating to the American Red Cross International Response Fund $1 for every hardcover book sold from the first printing in the U.S. Donations will continue until all first printing copies have been sold or at the end of a two-year period from the initial publication date, whichever is the first to occur.

Wonder how bif the initial print run is. If it's 1000, suddenly this doesn't seem so much. But if it's an initial print run of 1000,000 then suddenly that's very generous. Anyone know?

icerose
04-01-2010, 06:14 PM
I have no idea, depends on the author for how big the print run would be. Still it's donations and donations are good.

I did want to clarify my earlier statements. I have no problem if someone vehemently hates a book or writing style. What I can't stand is the author bashing or presumption to say "This author has no business writing!" Or "I wish this author would crawl under a rock and never hurt my delicate reading sensibilities with their trash!"

We are all writers and they are still a writer. It's okay if you don't like a book, it's not okay to denigrate a fellow writer and their audience. The whole respect thing applies in the real world too. I consider it very bad taste to say what authors are allowed to show their work to the world and which ones are not.

Southern Girl
04-01-2010, 06:18 PM
Secondly, I was just eating a Big Mac and smeyer walked in the room and hauled it out of my mouth. Bitch.

:roll:

Bubastes
04-01-2010, 06:22 PM
We are all writers and they are still a writer. It's okay if you don't like a book, it's not okay to denigrate a fellow writer and their audience. The whole respect thing applies in the real world too. I consider it very bad taste to say what authors are allowed to show their work to the world and which ones are not.

Agreed.

BenPanced
04-01-2010, 06:24 PM
Trewely, y saye to že, that none of thise auctoritees commeth nigh unto mine gode frende Geoffrye Chaucer. Et aussi, Dan Chaucer have gret capacity for beere.
Hee pharts alaut.

Oh. Wait. Sorry.

Hee pharts alaut.

shaldna
04-01-2010, 06:40 PM
I have no idea, depends on the author for how big the print run would be. Still it's donations and donations are good.

I did want to clarify my earlier statements. I have no problem if someone vehemently hates a book or writing style. What I can't stand is the author bashing or presumption to say "This author has no business writing!" Or "I wish this author would crawl under a rock and never hurt my delicate reading sensibilities with their trash!"

We are all writers and they are still a writer. It's okay if you don't like a book, it's not okay to denigrate a fellow writer and their audience. The whole respect thing applies in the real world too. I consider it very bad taste to say what authors are allowed to show their work to the world and which ones are not.


This strikes me a cult mentality. I can only say good things then? Sorry, but that's not how opinions work.

While respect is a two way street, I, as an individual, have opinions and I will voice them. If you don't like them, then ignore them.

Libbie
04-01-2010, 06:42 PM
I used to feel that it was better for people to not read at all than to read the wordbutchery that is the Twilight series. When I read Twilight, I actually felt physical pains in my middle over how awkward and awful it was (in my opinion). It made me despair that such bad stuff could be published. I felt strongly that it was terrible for anybody to read this, and to enjoy it, and to think this was good writing. I was certain that nobody who loved Twilight would ever progress to loving good writing.

Then, while working a temp stint at a book store, I helped a woman who came in with a list of books she was searching for. I helped her find a few of them. They were all great books, but all fairly dissimilar in style or subject, so I asked her if they were for her, or if they were gifts.

She said they were for her -- she hadn't read a novel since high school (she looked to be in her 40s) and she loved it so much, she started taking recommendations from other people on which books to read next. Her list included some really great literature, and at the top was my favorite book, Lolita.

If Stephenie Meyer is responsible for getting even one person reading Nabokov, then I can't hold too much against her. I happily ate crow that day, rang up her purchases, and told her she was my favorite customer ever.

I no longer believe Meyer is sheer evil who will do nothing but damage to readers (certainly not to writers -- as somebody already pointed out, our advances benefit from her bongo huge sales.) I still think there are too many readers who will stop at Twilight and never go for anything else, but there is at least one person in the world who is now reading Nabokov, and who never would have picked up one of his books before, all because of sparkly Edward.

Shine on, you abstinent, sparkly diamond.

shaldna
04-01-2010, 06:45 PM
I no longer believe Meyer is sheer evil who will do nothing but damage to readers (certainly not to writers -- as somebody already pointed out, our advances benefit from her bongo huge sales.)

She's not evil. And she seems like a nice enough person. But I have no respect for her writing ability. But that's just me. Other people see things differently.


I still think there are too many readers who will stop at Twilight and never go for anything else,

This.

Do you know how many times I have heard people say 'I'vefinsihed all the twilight books and now I have nothing to read.'

Nothing? What about the MILLIONS of other books in print?

I think that's what bothers me most to be honest.

Libbie
04-01-2010, 06:46 PM
I'm curious as to who would be against it. And why.

I'd be cool with it, as long as somebody else was dealing with all the product-making and selling. That's too much work for me.

scarletpeaches
04-01-2010, 06:47 PM
I have serious problems with the messages she sends to young women about the correct response to being dumped.

shaldna
04-01-2010, 06:49 PM
I have serious problems with the messages she sends to young women about the correct response to being dumped.


What, you mean turning into a zombie, loosing all self respect and contemplating suicide isn't the appropriate actions?

kayleamay
04-01-2010, 06:49 PM
*stumbles into wormhole and out of Office party*




For those who don't live in this area, Washington is weird. You can divide it vertically based on its geography and you've really got three separate states in one. The Peninsula and the Coast are their own little world. Pugetopolis/the I-5 Corridor is its own little world. And Eastern Washington is its own little world. Smeyer has definitely claimed the Peninsula for France, so to speak. It is all Twilighted to the gills, but that doesn't spill over into Seattle much.

(I am working on taking the Sound for my own. Alan, you can have everything east of the Cascades. ;) )

Hey! I'm taking the southern half of the I-5 corridor most of northern Oregon too. You can keep Pubic Town and Alan can have the brown parts of the state, but the rest is mine! Hands off. ;)


Publishing fact of life:

Those authors who sell large numbers of books -- Dan Brown, Stephanie Meyer, Stephen King, Robert Jordan, etc. etc. --

They make it possible for publishers to afford to publish authors who aren't guaranteed to sell.

I'm really tired of people whining about this stuff; if you don't like an author, don't buy or read the books.

My respect for you increases by ten fold.


Whan žat mine leve frende Geoffrye Chaucer did receive his paye as že Clerke of že Kingis Works, yt was bot 30 punds anum. Ye, verily, žise maker was payde in beer, well I wot!

but then you gave me a headache so I reduced it to two fold.


*thumbs ride back to Office Party*

scarletpeaches
04-01-2010, 06:51 PM
Sure it's fiction, but the number of grown women who swoon over Edward fucking scares me, as if stalkerboyfriends are something to aspire to and if they leave? Well, you might as well kill yourself, because you're nothing without a man at your side, watching you sleep.

Can't really blame Meyer for that; I fear for the mental state of grown women who actually WANT that sort of relationship though.

milly
04-01-2010, 06:53 PM
God I hope we are all not writing to send a message to anyone...geez...should we be concerned about that to the detriment of the story? Some people do react the way Bella did, crazy or not and if teenagers take it as an example of how to react then, so be it. There are lots of people who don't read it that way.

I don't doubt that Lolita spawned a rise in pedophiles but I don't diss Nabokov for writing it...it was an amazing novel even though the social implications were more than disturbing

milly
04-01-2010, 06:55 PM
Sure it's fiction, but the number of grown women who swoon over Edward fucking scares me, as if stalkerboyfriends are something to aspire to and if they leave? Well, you might as well kill yourself, because you're nothing without a man at your side, watching you sleep.

Can't really blame Meyer for that; I fear for the mental state of grown women who actually WANT that sort of relationship though.


My last post was before you said this and I could not agree more...can't blame her for it...we all take what we want from the stories that we read.

shaldna
04-01-2010, 06:56 PM
Sure it's fiction, but the number of grown women who swoon over Edward fucking scares me, as if stalkerboyfriends are something to aspire to and if they leave? Well, you might as well kill yourself, because you're nothing without a man at your side, watching you sleep.

Can't really blame Meyer for that; I fear for the mental state of grown women who actually WANT that sort of relationship though.


My ex is a psychologist, and he had alot of very interesting things to say about twilight, primarily that edward had all the markers of a domestic abuser, I mean, he freakin picked out her CLOTHES, alienated her from her friend, controlled who she could and couldn't see. And her dad is a cop. He should have seen that.

As for older women swooning over eddiekins, I think that's part of this wish fulfilment. Using this ideal as a way to compensate for thier own frustrations and disapointments. Which in itself is fine, I mean, that's what we read fiction for, right? But there's something a bit squicky when a forty year old woman is obsessing over a sparkly 17 year old dico faerie.

scarletpeaches
04-01-2010, 06:58 PM
Ah, but he's 109 or something, isn't he?

I just don't know what he'd see in a teen like Bella...unless he's been waiting decades for a Mary- sorry, a ciph- sorry, I mean a girl to control.

shaldna
04-01-2010, 06:59 PM
God I hope we are all not writing to send a message to anyone...geez...should we be concerned about that to the detriment of the story? Some people do react the way Bella did, crazy or not and if teenagers take it as an example of how to react then, so be it. There are lots of people who don't read it that way.

I don't doubt that Lolita spawned a rise in pedophiles but I don't diss Nabokov for writing it...it was an amazing novel even though the social implications were more than disturbing

Firstly, I very much doubt that Lolita did anything of the sort. The difference here is GLORIFICATION of a subject. Lolita dint' glorify pedophillia.

Twilight, on the other hand, glorified domestic abuse.

While I appreciate your point that some people do react the way Bella did, the issue I have is in putting that across as if it's the RIGHT way to react.

scarletpeaches
04-01-2010, 07:04 PM
This is pure speculation on my part, but the emptiness of Bella, this 'one size fits all, she could be anyone' quality she has, makes me wonder if Meyer fits herself into this hollow shell of a female MC. This, in turn, makes me wonder if she sees Bella's inaction and reactions as the 'correct' response in the real world, and the relationships she has as healthy, mature and nurturing.

She's known to have said if Edward appeared on her doorstep she'd run off with him, and her husband laughed and said, "Good luck with that." Joking between a married couple? Probably.

And as I said, pure speculation on my part, but the suspicion is there.

shaldna
04-01-2010, 07:08 PM
This is pure speculation on my part, but the emptiness of Bella, this 'one size fits all, she could be anyone' quality she has, makes me wonder if Meyer fits herself into this hollow shell of a female MC. This, in turn, makes me wonder if she sees Bella's inaction and reactions as the 'correct' response in the real world, and the relationships she has as healthy, mature and nurturing.




I really hope not. It would be pretty sad if it were true. Interestingly, it was something similar that my ex said.

cllorentson
04-01-2010, 07:08 PM
I'm not a fan of Meyer's writing quality, but it seems like a lot of people are hating on her because she's financially successful, despite her poor writing abilities. If her book sold 300 copies, no one on this board would hate her like they do.

I think that smacks of jealousy.

Personally, I say "more power to her". If any one of us had that kind of success, I guarantee we'd be hawking the action figures, video games, and breakfast cereal to go with it. It's easy to say, "She's trash! And her work is trash! and I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole," when we've not reached anywhere near the success that she has.

Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But sometimes our opinions betray feelings that are shaded green, rather than truly objective.

It's ok if you think her work is schlock. But "protesting too much" about her work being the reason Americans don't read about anything but vampires, and questioning her motives for donating the proceeds from her "novella", and basically just hating hard because she has merchandise to go with her books--that does seem a bit sour grapes.

scarletpeaches
04-01-2010, 07:11 PM
Wow, page six and it took that long for someone to play the jealousy card.

And no, really. NOT everyone would whore their books out for merchandise. Maybe you would. Speak for yourself. You do not speak for anyone else.

shaldna
04-01-2010, 07:12 PM
I wondered how long before the 'you're just jealous' arguement came up.

We're not.

If jealousy was a motivator here, then by those standards I would hate JK Rowling too, right? And Terry Pratchett? And Stephen King? And Michael Crichton?

But I don't. I admire them massively.

So why don't you think that through and try again?

shaldna
04-01-2010, 07:13 PM
Wow, page six and it took that long for someone to play the jealousy card.



Because of course the ONLY reason I would dislike a book is because i'm jealous.

o_O

milly
04-01-2010, 07:13 PM
Firstly, I very much doubt that Lolita did anything of the sort. The difference here is GLORIFICATION of a subject. Lolita dint' glorify pedophillia.

Twilight, on the other hand, glorified domestic abuse.

While I appreciate your point that some people do react the way Bella did, the issue I have is in putting that across as if it's the RIGHT way to react.

I cannot believe that there are not pedophiles out there who don't slobber all over themselves while reading Lolita...again, I might be wrong about that, but, our different takes on that is what makes whatever it is that Nabokov was doing with his novel perfect.

Not that Twilight is "perfect"...and I do not believe it is even close, I take issue with the statement that the novel glorified domestic abuse as if it is a fact any more concrete than Lolita glorifying pedophilia.

I respect people's opinions when they are rendered as opinions. I don't know many things (if any things) that I can say are absolutely true. I don't want to get all Kripke here, but, most of this discussion is based on what we all think about the novel and how it affects people NOT about what the novel instrinsically IS...I can state as a fact what my observations have been of actual readers but that's about as far as I can go with it.

But...I still have my opinions of course, mostly rooted in those facts but not facts in an of themselves.

scarletpeaches
04-01-2010, 07:14 PM
And Jacqueline Wilson. Some of her books are YA.

shaldna
04-01-2010, 07:16 PM
And Jacqueline Wilson. Some of her books are YA.


Oh yeah, I'm obviously jealous of her too.

scarletpeaches
04-01-2010, 07:18 PM
Oh yeah, I'm obviously jealous of her too.Well I sure am. She used to live in my home town and had a magazine named after her.

And she writes her first drafts longhand in gorgeous Italian leatherbound notebooks.

shaldna
04-01-2010, 07:19 PM
Well I sure am. She used to live in my home town and had a magazine named after her.

And she writes her first drafts longhand in gorgeous Italian leatherbound notebooks.


She's a pretty awesome person. And her books are fab.

Shame I don't hate her though.

scarletpeaches
04-01-2010, 07:20 PM
She's a pretty awesome person. And her books are fab.

Shame I don't hate her though.She has her rings personally made.

Hate her yet?

shaldna
04-01-2010, 07:21 PM
She has her rings personally made.

Hate her yet?


Nah. I have custom jewellry too. Although I do wear slightly less of it than she does.

:)

scarletpeaches
04-01-2010, 07:23 PM
Custom; that was the word I was looking for.

The queues for her booksignings are mental. And she's the most-borrowed author in Britain's libraries.

And isn't she a Dame now?

milly
04-01-2010, 07:26 PM
I don't think jealousy is it at all...I just think it's hard as a writer to look at some of the things we read and think...REALLY? THIS got published??? It's a reality check in a way on how in touch we are with readers...do we know what people are really looking for in structure, style, character development, genre, etc. I don't think people dislike Meyer because she's made millions, published several novels, and is now merchandising her ass off.

I think people dislike her because she writes in ways that they don't like or enjoy and it infuriates them that something like THAT is making people happy or excited or sad or enamored, whatever emotion they themselves are trying to invoke in their readers. If what she is writing works then what about what I'm writing?

Deep down, we want writing, the act of doing it, to be enough. We do...but then, in the dark recesses of our subconscious, we worry that it won't be. We don't ever let that thought surface for fear that it would make us stop doing the one thing we love to do. We try to get published all the while pretending that its not to make other people happy or sad or excited or enamored. We don't want to be like Meyer or like any author that has "sold out." That's what we tell ourselves...we tell ourselves that because we have to.

Hmmm...my opinion of course...just one of many here on the boards

icerose
04-01-2010, 07:30 PM
This strikes me a cult mentality. I can only say good things then? Sorry, but that's not how opinions work.

While respect is a two way street, I, as an individual, have opinions and I will voice them. If you don't like them, then ignore them.

If you'd actually read my post you wouldn't have drawn that conclusion. I said you could dislike her book, I even said you could absolutely hate her book. But going so far as to asking her to stop writing, and stop torturing you with her trash, and how only stupid people would read her and so on goes far beyond the pale.

Critique the book, critique the writing, but leave the writer, the fans out of it. Respect and all that is all I'm asking.

BenPanced
04-01-2010, 07:31 PM
I smell a mod intervention on the horizon...

scarletpeaches
04-01-2010, 07:32 PM
I agree with all of this except the bolded, for reasons I'll explain:
I don't think jealousy is it at all...I just think it's hard as a writer to look at some of the things we read and think...REALLY? THIS got published??? It's a reality check in a way on how in touch we are with readers...do we know what people are really looking for in structure, style, character development, genre, etc. I don't think people dislike Meyer because she's made millions, published several novels, and is now merchandising her ass off.

I think people dislike her because she writes in ways that they don't like or enjoy and it infuriates them that something like THAT is making people happy or excited or sad or enamored, whatever emotion they themselves are trying to invoke in their readers. If what she is writing works then what about what I'm writing?

Deep down, we want writing, the act of doing it, to be enough. We do...but then, in the dark recesses of our subconscious, we worry that it won't be. We don't ever let that thought surface for fear that it would make us stop doing the one thing we love to do. We try to get published all the while pretending that its not to make other people happy or sad or excited or enamored. We don't want to be like Meyer or like any author that has "sold out." That's what we tell ourselves...we tell ourselves that because we have to.

Hmmm...my opinion of course...just one of many here on the boardsI have absolutely no problem with owning up to wanting people to laugh and cry at my books - in all the right places, of course.

Has Meyer 'sold out'? Well I say it's selling out if you know better but just do enough to get by. Does Meyer know better? Is she capable of more? Has she dropped standards because hey, she can get away with writing dreck like Twilight, so why try harder?

I don't know. I don't know the woman. Never met her, probably never will, don't particularly care either way. All I have to go on are her books, and the way she comes across in interviews - and that probably makes up about 1% of who she is as a human being.

(She is human, right)?

I'm trying to get published over and over again because I want people to enjoy what I write. I want them to enjoy it so much they'll pay for the privilege. I want to make a living doing what I love. Ain't no shame in it.

Jealousy? No. I wouldn't want her career. Not with what she's had to write to get there. I want her success - I do not want her back catalogue. And her money does not kill off my chances of striking it rich myself, one day. This is not a zero-sum game.

It's more like, "If this can get published, then I have to someday - I can write better than that!"

And I can. I'm an excellent writer.

How am I when it comes to storytelling? Ah, there's the rub. I'll tell you this, though - even if I knew I could buy and sell Shannon Leto ten times over, I would never write a story like Twilight. Ever. If that's the price of 'selling out', you can keep it.

Meyer has hit a nerve with the reading public. This is undeniable.

I think this is also very, very sad.

icerose
04-01-2010, 07:36 PM
But the general public doesn't care so much about writing style as they do about story and characters they can care about. To a writer the characters can seem pretty flimsy but overall she has a knack for making you want to turn the page. For making you want to see what happens next. Some people it may not fill you up, but it's still an enjoyable story and the pages are easy to turn.

scarletpeaches
04-01-2010, 07:38 PM
I smell a mod intervention on the horizon...Yeah, I bet it gets locked when I'm out this evening and unable to join in the fracas.

Hey - I got to use 'fracas' in a post!

milly
04-01-2010, 07:40 PM
How am I when it comes to storytelling? Ah, there's the rub. I'll tell you this, though - even if I knew I could buy and sell Shannon Leto ten times over, I would never write a story like Twilight. Ever. If that's the price of 'selling out', you can keep it.

Meyer has hit a nerve with the reading public. This is undeniable.

I think this is also very, very sad.

I could not agree with you more on this point. It's the reason why you hear agents in interviews saying that a certain book was just not right for them "at the time" since the reading public changes so often.

For example: I am amazed honestly in reading the threads on this board that there are so many fantasy and paranormal writers for example. I have only been a member for one month but I was lurking here for a very long time before that. But, I don't get it. The writing is fabulous but from a story standpoint, it's not my thing. However, the reading public loves it right now so for those writers...have at it. You have a better chance at success than me regardless of the writing.

My stories might be more mainstream in 5 years, 10 or 15 even...I HOPE!!! :)

cllorentson
04-01-2010, 07:45 PM
I even said you could absolutely hate her book. But going so far as to asking her to stop writing, and stop torturing you with her trash, and how only stupid people would read her and so on goes far beyond the pale.

Critique the book, critique the writing, but leave the writer, the fans out of it. Respect and all that is all I'm asking.

I think Icerose says it all. Saying you don't like the book or the way it's written is your privilege. But when your opinion of the book is completely over the top, and you're practically blaming Meyer for all the ills in the world, domestic abuse, low literacy rate, global warming, etc., then it makes others question the motives behind your opinion.

I don't think Meyer's a great writer, either. But I do think she's a good storyteller, and that's what has made her successful. You have to give her snaps for that.

Gillhoughly
04-01-2010, 07:49 PM
I'll admit I'm jealous of Meyer's massive sales. I would be less so were she a BETTER writer, but I think her craft stinks and she would have had to put some real work in had I been editing her.

I've read plenty of YA that was wonderfully written, so there's no excuse for being sloppy.

However, I don't get my own writing done stewing about the unfairness of the world, blah-blah-blah. I have to write words today so I can shop them around tomorrow.

That said--

There are a variety of reasons why people love or hate her stuff, there is little middle ground. For my own part, I see Eddie as a controlling stalker/abuser pedophile, but Meyer says that's perfectly fine so long as the man is pretty and LUUURVES the girl.

I disagree and would like to strap her to a chair and make her watch every episode of Xena to see if that might wake her up.

Clearly she tapped something women respond to, and it just shows that we're not as liberated as we'd like to think if so many go swooning over such a crappy relationship.

But I think this thread is getting too rancorous. Let's take a chill pill and visit a review of the series written by an ex-Mormon.

I think you'll all find some scary insights you never suspected lurked just under the surface. And, hey, it's funny. We need some funny about now.

I give you Sparkledammerung (http://stoney321.livejournal.com/317176.html)! (No, I didn't write it, but I'm glad someone did.)


http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/77905539/3675688




Uber-Twifans can give it a skip. You won't like it.

willietheshakes
04-01-2010, 07:50 PM
Oh, on an interesting note, found this on www.breetanner.com (don't ask me what I was doing.)



Wonder how bif the initial print run is. If it's 1000, suddenly this doesn't seem so much. But if it's an initial print run of 1000,000 then suddenly that's very generous. Anyone know?

1.5 million copies in the first print run. (That's according to the HBG USA press release that was forwarded to me by a CDN publicist.)

scarletpeaches
04-01-2010, 07:51 PM
Gillhoughly, your post is made of win. I salute you.

HJW
04-01-2010, 07:53 PM
I cannot believe that there are not pedophiles out there who don't slobber all over themselves while reading Lolita...again, I might be wrong about that, but, our different takes on that is what makes whatever it is that Nabokov was doing with his novel perfect.

Not that Twilight is "perfect"...and I do not believe it is even close, I take issue with the statement that the novel glorified domestic abuse as if it is a fact any more concrete than Lolita glorifying pedophilia.

I respect people's opinions when they are rendered as opinions. I don't know many things (if any things) that I can say are absolutely true. I don't want to get all Kripke here, but, most of this discussion is based on what we all think about the novel and how it affects people NOT about what the novel instrinsically IS...I can state as a fact what my observations have been of actual readers but that's about as far as I can go with it.

But...I still have my opinions of course, mostly rooted in those facts but not facts in an of themselves.

Hmm. I'm not really getting the Lolita/Twilight comparison at all.

For a start, Nabokov didn't Mary Sue Humbert Humbert.

Joking aside, I can't imagine any paedophile slobbering over Lolita. What's there to slobber over? No graphic sex, nothing.

Namatu
04-01-2010, 07:54 PM
http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/77905539/3675688
:roll: Very fetching.

milly
04-01-2010, 07:59 PM
Hmm. I'm not really getting the Lolita/Twilight comparison at all.

For a start, Nabokov didn't Mary Sue Humbert Humbert.

Joking aside, I can't imagine any paedophile slobbering over Lolita. What's there to slobber over? No graphic sex, nothing.

I don't think the graphic sex is what would be attractive...I think it would be the chase and the success of the chase, the sheer attainability of it even in the absence of graphic descriptions of what really went on

My point in comparing it to Twilight works in that it caused you to ask this question about Lolita. You don't see Nabokov as promoting pedophilia just like tons of readers don't view Twilight as promoting domestic abuse (even though there are some that will have opposite view of both novels)

It's totally subjective and to say its just a "fact" is erroneous

milly
04-01-2010, 08:01 PM
where's ole' Dolores Haze when we need the imput??

*summoning the little nymphet now*

scarletpeaches
04-01-2010, 08:03 PM
Or Libbie. I want Libbie in this thread so badly right now.

HJW
04-01-2010, 08:09 PM
I don't think the graphic sex is what would be attractive...I think it would be the chase and the success of the chase, the sheer attainability of it even in the absence of graphic descriptions of what really went on

My point in comparing it to Twilight works in that it caused you to ask this question about Lolita. You don't see Nabokov as promoting pedophilia just like tons of readers don't view Twilight as promoting domestic abuse (even though there are some that will have opposite view of both novels)

It's totally subjective and to say its just a "fact" is erroneous


I agree with you in that I don't think Twilight promotes domestic abuse. But it does promote something just as disturbing - that a teenage girl's life is nothing if she doesn't have a boyfriend, sparkly or otherwise.

I don't begrudge Meyer her success though, and I don’t think on balance Twilight does any harm. I read some terrible books when I was younger (Flowers in the Attic - incest anyone?). I grew out of that stuff and I bet the Twilighters grow out of this.

I think it's good Meyer is giving some of the profits from Bree whatsit to charity. She could have kept all the dough for herself.

Kitty27
04-01-2010, 08:28 PM
BWHAHAHAHHA!

That pic of Edward has slayed me. Oh my damn. LMAO!

Okay,ahem.

In my travels round the net,I swear some people act like Stephenie Meyer slapped them when they were a child and they never got over it. In my world,we call this hating. Yes,haters. She came from nowhere,she blew up and now she's getting paid. Major paid. I say,get your hustle on,Ms.Meyer. Get that paper,lady.

With her fanbase and sales,Ms.Meyer could play "Hi,Haters" all day and snicker. But she doesn't. I think she's pretty gracious about her success.

A writer doesn't write for love of craft alone. If that were the case,we'd happily accept a chance just to see our holy craft in print. No payment necessary,just give my written word away! But we don't. Because we want that paper as well. A writer should make money off their books and branding is perfectly acceptable to me. Make as much as you possibly can. A lot of writers have sweated for years to make it and when they do,I wouldn't begrudge them for making as much grip as they possibly can. GET IT,peeps.

Am I a fan? Yes and no. I liked Twilight and that was it. She clearly was able to touch something in women/girls and they responded. Who am I to call the lady the Anti-Christ or diss her fans? Hell,they like it,I love it. She is doing a good thing. She didn't have to give a dime. But she did and I salute her for it.

Cyia
04-01-2010, 08:43 PM
In my travels round the net,I swear some people act like Stephenie Meyer slapped them when they were a child and they never got over it.

Wait. You mean that was HER????

WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

Kitty27
04-01-2010, 08:48 PM
Wait. You mean that was HER????

WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.




Cyia,the hating is something serious. I was really shocked by some of the venom directed at her.

There are those who don't like her writing style. That's fair enough. But they keep their comments about her writing ONLY. They don't diss her personally.

There is a far larger posse of what I call Meyer Stalkers who hate the poor woman for breathing. I have seen some real savagery directed at her and I am starting to wonder if she might need a bodyguard. People have to keep it real. She got published fairly easily and became an overnight sensation. There is a word for feeling pissed about this. It's called jealousy. Admit it,own it. It's a common human emotion.

Cyia
04-01-2010, 08:51 PM
There is a far larger posse of what I call Meyer Stalkers who hate the poor woman for breathing. I have seen some real savagery directed at her and I am starting to wonder if she might need a bodyguard.


Okay, that's sick. Why do these nuts seem to flock to vampire writers?

Kitty27
04-01-2010, 08:53 PM
Okay, that's sick. Why do these nuts seem to flock to vampire writers?


I have no idea. We are wonderful folk. Insane,but wonderful.



I applaud Ms.Meyer's marketing strategy and overall hustle. No hating here,whatsoever.

Giving back is awesome and it might inspire some of her fans to make it a habit.

Phaeal
04-01-2010, 08:58 PM
Uh oh, the jealousy card has hit the table again. Well, actually the envy card, unless you wrote Twilight and SM seduced it away from you, but let's not go down that murky semantic path, where the two words seem to be losing their distinctive meanings.

As for envy, yeah, I'm envious of SM, but I don't hate her in the least or wish her ill. She just did what marketable writers are supposed to do: She hit the right nerve in a lucratively large number of people.

cllorentson
04-01-2010, 09:02 PM
It's called jealousy. Admit it,own it. It's a common human emotion.

I absolutely agree, Kitty. And in fact, I think it's even okay for some of us to feel a little jealous of her. But, like you said, just admit to being a little jealous. I think some of us want to call it righteous indignation at her "inferior work", when it really just betrays the fact that we WISH we were as successful as her.

brokenfingers
04-01-2010, 09:10 PM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/samiamin/08397109125759851297.jpg

swvaughn
04-01-2010, 09:16 PM
wow! that's r ally gross! i lov it!

i must r frain from comm nting on th quality of ms. m y r's work, sinc i hav n't r ad any of it. but lik most rational p opl , i hav no r ason to hat h r.

Kitty27
04-01-2010, 10:00 PM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/samiamin/08397109125759851297.jpg


That's it.

I can no longer post in this thread with any sense.

LOL!

Namatu
04-01-2010, 10:51 PM
Fixed this for you, sonya.


wow! that's r ally groess! i louv itt!

i must r fraiyne from comm nti'ng on th qwualityee of ms. m y r's woerk, sinc i hav n't r ad anyee ouff itt. but lik most rationael p opl , i hav noe r asoen to hat8 h r.

swvaughn
04-01-2010, 11:07 PM
Fixed this for you, sonya.

Woo hoo, thank you! That's much b tt r. Now I can r ad what I m ant to typ !

gothicangel
04-02-2010, 12:01 AM
Just to clarify what I meant be 'serious.'

Yes I want to write serious fiction like Ian Rankin, David Peace and Neil Gaiman. But I also want a publisher to take me seriously. If I ever hear someone say: 'I know you put your heart and soul into this book, but book X was really successful, why don't you write another one of those?'

If that happens, I'm taking my laptop and finding a new publisher.

Meyers has a great opportunity to make Gothic a popular genre once again. She could be writing some great Gothic romances, so why suck the life out of the success of Twilight?

Phaeal
04-02-2010, 12:12 AM
Edward, you sicko. I'm coming over to smack you when I get off the floor from laughing.

That last frame is classic.

emilycross
04-02-2010, 12:18 AM
I echo what others like Icerose have said about respect etc.

Whatever you think about her writing/message, I don't think it's ever right to attack/make personal comments about the writer/fans.

I was a fan of twilight (i even meet SM and she was lovely), I'm not a fan now.

I liked (and still kind of do) Twilight, I tolerated NM and EC and hated BD.

I grew out of the books.

Now, I've always been a reader before reading TW back in 2006/7 but I'm going to be completely honest (and I'll probably be mocked) but when I read TW, i felt like writing a book was something that I could actually do.

I guess, it gave me confidence that I could at least attempt something I always felt was beyond me and my abilities. It made the idea of becoming a published writer something feasible and not a day dream.

"if she can do it, I can do it" sort of thing.

Soppy i know!


EDIT: OMG that picture is Frakking AMAZING. LMAO

scarletpeaches
04-02-2010, 12:30 AM
She got published fairly easily and became an overnight sensation. There is a word for feeling pissed about this. It's called jealousy. Admit it,own it. It's a common human emotion.No, it isn't.

Really. Just no.

Writers I like? Great!

Writers I don't like? Pfft; who cares?
...I'm going to be completely honest (and I'll probably be mocked) but when I read TW, i felt like writing a book was something that I could actually do.

I guess, it gave me confidence that I could at least attempt something I always felt was beyond me and my abilities. It made the idea of becoming a published writer something feasible and not a day dream.

"if she can do it, I can do it" sort of thing.

Soppy i know!Not soppy at all. I think a lot of us reason "If that can get published, so the hell can I!"
EDIT: OMG that picture is Frakking AMAZING. LMAOI've got a folder full of Twilight pisstakes if you want 'em...

BenPanced
04-02-2010, 12:45 AM
No, it isn't.

Really. Just no.

Writers I like? Great!

Writers I don't like? Pfft; who cares?

Not soppy at all. I think a lot of us reason "If that can get published, so the hell can I!"
Confused? Maybe. Jelose? Hardly.

scarletpeaches
04-02-2010, 12:49 AM
Yeah. That's about the size of it, Beep.

Nice bicycle, by the way.

BenPanced
04-02-2010, 01:11 AM
Does it make my butt look big?

Maxinquaye
04-02-2010, 01:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarletpeaches
I've earned my right to call writing fun. I enjoy it so much now because of the work I put in then.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxinquaye
Stop chasing inspiration. He's just a tease, and will never give you what you need.

Get down to work, and grit through it.

Omg.

I'm in the same sig as SP.

Does that mean I've made it?

scarletpeaches
04-02-2010, 01:14 AM
Am I the benchmark for signature quality, then? :D

scarletpeaches
04-02-2010, 01:15 AM
Does it make my butt look big?Fucking huge.

Darzian
04-02-2010, 02:26 AM
Freaky thread with some disturbing posts.

ETA: Read only the first 3 pages.

shaldna
04-02-2010, 02:38 AM
Saying you don't like the book or the way it's written is your privilege. But when your opinion of the book is completely over the top, and you're practically blaming Meyer for all the ills in the world, domestic abuse, low literacy rate, global warming, etc., then it makes others question the motives behind your opinion.

I'm sorry, did I say those things? I do believe that all I said was I didn't like her books, and I listed legitimate reasons why. I don't belive anyone here insulted her personally, or her fanbase.

Please don't draw conclusions.



But I do think she's a good storyteller, and that's what has made her successful. You have to give her snaps for that.


No I don't. Perhaps I missed something, but I failed to see a 'story' in any of her books.

shaldna
04-02-2010, 02:41 AM
1.5 million copies in the first print run. (That's according to the HBG USA press release that was forwarded to me by a CDN publicist.)


That's a pretty awesome figure actually, and will generate alot of money for the charity. Which is pretty cool.

jennontheisland
04-02-2010, 02:44 AM
And a great big tax credit for her.


(I'm sorry, I can't help it, I'm just that much of a cynic)

shaldna
04-02-2010, 02:44 AM
There is a word for feeling pissed about this. It's called jealousy. Admit it,own it. It's a common human emotion.


Seriously, get a new freaking argument, because the 'jealousy' card has been played and it's not washing with anyone.

shaldna
04-02-2010, 02:47 AM
I absolutely agree, Kitty. And in fact, I think it's even okay for some of us to feel a little jealous of her. But, like you said, just admit to being a little jealous. I think some of us want to call it righteous indignation at her "inferior work", when it really just betrays the fact that we WISH we were as successful as her.


Oh right, cause the only reason anyone could possibly ever dislike anything is because of jealousy?

Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds?

Seriously sweetheart, think it through and come up with a better argument.

scarletpeaches
04-02-2010, 02:49 AM
shaldna. Steady.

Plenty of people here agree with you - I'm one of 'em - but don't go getting yourself in trouble over this.

You know the jealousy card is bollocks. So do I. Just...careful.

Christine N.
04-02-2010, 02:54 AM
Scarlet said bollocks

(one of my favorite words ever)

End thread.

cllorentson
04-02-2010, 03:02 AM
Oh right, cause the only reason anyone could possibly ever dislike anything is because of jealousy?


Disliking is not the same as ranting, though.

Lots of people dislike the books. I don't really like them, myself.

But ranting about how terrible an author is, and how her work is sludge, and how she shouldn't be selling merchandise with her books...I'm sorry, I just think it's a little over the top, after a while.

I'm not saying you have to like her. I just think there's constructive criticism, and then there's just bashing.

Kitty27
04-02-2010, 03:47 AM
Seriously, get a new freaking argument, because the 'jealousy' card has been played and it's not washing with anyone.


I said some critics,not all. As I said in another post,there people who genuinely don't like her writing technique and they say so. That's all good. The one thing about those critics is that they don't make it personal.

When you diss the work,writing style,etc,that's normal. But when it comes to saying she should never write again,shouldn't make a penny off her own work,she shot JFK from the grassy knoll and so on,it is bashing and that has it's roots in plain old jealousy.

Not all people who dislike her work are jealous of her. I do realize that. But I still maintain that quite a few are and they bash her exclusively because of that.

cllorentson
04-02-2010, 03:54 AM
:(

Actually, Shaldna and Scarlett Peaches, I'm sorry.

Looking over my posts, I can see I'm looking really argumentive with you guys, and coming across as a troll. And not even a cute troll, with fuzzy Don King hair, but a mean troll, like with goats and a bridge. Just want to apologize.

I've been inside the house too long, with nasty weather, and it's made me grumpy. And made me bizarrely defensive over an author who I'm not even a fan of.

So sorry, you guys. And sorry about using the "J" word. That was stupid of me.

benbradley
04-02-2010, 04:31 AM
Lay off the beer, Lisa. You've turned pink again.
Yeah, and despite talking in Olde Englishe, you're using a font created less than 20 years ago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comic_sans).

The font's widespread use, often in situations for which it was not intended, has been criticized.
Back to catching up with the thread...

milly
04-02-2010, 05:04 AM
:(

Actually, Shaldna and Scarlett Peaches, I'm sorry.

Looking over my posts, I can see I'm looking really argumentive with you guys, and coming across as a troll. And not even a cute troll, with fuzzy Don King hair, but a mean troll, like with goats and a bridge. Just want to apologize.

I've been inside the house too long, with nasty weather, and it's made me grumpy. And made me bizarrely defensive over an author who I'm not even a fan of.

So sorry, you guys. And sorry about using the "J" word. That was stupid of me.

no no no!!!! Don't apologize. We all have our opinions and as this thread has shown, they are all over the place when it comes to this topic. We should be able to come here and say what we want to say and, if we get blasted for it, we should accept it and move on.

Make a better argument or say no...I won't because I don't have to just because someone asks me to.

I respect anyone who will come here and say what he or she thinks regardless of the backlash...on both sides of the issue. I don't have to agree but I will listen and consider what I read.

Don't apologize for what you think...it's better, in my book, than having nothing to say. :):)

cllorentson
04-02-2010, 05:59 AM
Don't apologize for what you think...it's better, in my book, than having nothing to say. :):)

Well...it's not that I don't still think it. I just felt, after further reflection, that maybe I was coming across as rude.

I love a good, spirited debate. But I usually try to disagree without being disagreeable. Judging from some of the responses I read, I'm concerned I may have stepped too heavily on some nerves.

It doesn't mean my opinion has changed; I still think some of the complaints against Meyer are over the top. But I could probably have changed my wording a bit.

Thanks,
-Callie

milly
04-02-2010, 06:17 AM
Think it!!! Debate it!!! Don't back down!! I am probably "wrong" a lot of the time to a lot of people, but...if I stick to my guns and argue my side convincingly, I always count myself a winner.

Keep posting and we'll argue for your right to post whatever it is you want to post even if I don't agree with the opinion itself!! ;)

At least I will :)

Soccer Mom
04-02-2010, 06:48 AM
I think this thread has gone far afield. It was originally discussing something an author had done--giving a novella away for free, but because this is one of those polarizing authors, we've ended up with the inevitable debate on Stephanie Meyer/J.K. Rowling/Dan Brown/James Patterson/Nicholas Sparks worth as a writer. I'm glad everyone has made nice again.

I'm calling this one done.