Business side of Thoroughbred breeding/training

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I'm working on a story set in Kentucky, with the main family being involved in TB breeding/training. I'll give a bit of background, and then ask my questions, if that's okay...

So, the main character is a horse trainer. Her husband (soon to be ex-husband) is a member of a successful TB breeding family - lots of money and prestige. She's set herself up to retrain their OTTBs - probably mostly hunter/jumper, but she's a horsewoman, not just a rider, and I think she'd be good at finding the strengths of each horse and working with that.

I have experience riding, so I'm okay with that part of things, but I know next to nothing about the business side of TBs.

I'd like to mess with the family, a bit. I'd like it if my MC continued to have moderate success, while the main family (the ones involved in the racing side of things) experience financial difficulties. So I'm trying to find ways for that to happen. I don't need all the details, but the big picture would be great.

So, does anyone know...

- is it fairly common for 'big name' breeders to just sort of fade out, or is there usually more stability in the industry?

- are there specific errors that family members could have made that would contribute to their failures? Like, I'm thinking that they could have sold one or more horses, thinking that they lacked potential, and then the horses turned out to be great. Is there anything else like this that they might have run into?

- are there any breeders big enough (or in towns small enough) that they contribute a LOT to the local economy? Like, so that the breeder's slump would lead to a slump in the town itself?

- any recommendations of books or websites that would help me get an idea of day-to-day operations on a breeding/training farm?

- anything else I should know? Does my original set up, with the MC doing the post-racing training, sound reasonable? I don't want her to be rich, but I'd like her to be making an independent living.

Thanks for any help!
 

GeorgeK

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I live in Kentucky. The horse farms are dying out thanks to oppressive legislation at the federal and local levels making it highly speculative to raise horses. There are a few still doing well but between the the new regs, the waning nationwide interest in horse racing and rising costs, it is too much of a gamble for new farmers to get into it. As the old ones die out, they do not get replaced.
 

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Hi,
I can only give you my opinions from a British Horseracing perspective although, I suspect, some things are universal in horseracing.


So, does anyone know...

- is it fairly common for 'big name' breeders to just sort of fade out, or is there usually more stability in the industry?In my experience, somewhere 'Big' like Calumet Farms, or Godolphin will always be around as long as they have successful stallions. A big operation like Godolphin can pick and choose the horses they race and, subsequently, send to the Stud Farm. Having said that, I can think of one or two instances where big-name horses have turned out to be complete duds in the barn. But, the stud operations in question usually have more than one egg in their basket so it would take something catastrophic to bring a successful stud farm to a close.

- are there specific errors that family members could have made that would contribute to their failures? Like, I'm thinking that they could have sold one or more horses, thinking that they lacked potential, and then the horses turned out to be great. Is there anything else like this that they might have run into?that can certainly happen on the racing side. You can have a horse that's crap as a 2 year old, sell it on and have it turn into a Breeder's cup winner in different hands, as a 3 year old. My husband worked in racing (in the UK) for 25 years and one of his favorite sayings is "A horse will always make a fool or liar out of you."Plus some horses work better with different trainers. I've certainly known horses being sold out of one yard and go on to win in another. Trainers' regimes differ, everyone has their own secrets, their own routines and techniques.

- are there any breeders big enough (or in towns small enough) that they contribute a LOT to the local economy? Like, so that the breeder's slump would lead to a slump in the town itself?it's possible. My only experience is with Newmarket, which is both a racing town and a breeding town. Stud farms don't usually employ as many people as a racing yard, because there's no riding involved, it's all about mucking out, feeding, etc. Farms need feed, hay, etc, but I don't think I can imagine a town's economy rising and falling on the success or otherwise of a stud farm. But then, someone may come along and prove me wrong!

- any recommendations of books or websites that would help me get an idea of day-to-day operations on a breeding/training farm? Google is a good place to start. I suspect that US racing websites would be a good place to begin.

- anything else I should know? Does my original set up, with the MC doing the post-racing training, sound reasonable? I don't want her to be rich, but I'd like her to be making an independent living.If you're talking about the rehabilitation of racehorses, it's a long process. I have a friend who used to buy horses just out of training and, depending on the horse, you may have to leave them to get their backs down for at least a few months. Racehorses are trained in an entirely different way than riding horses. Backing a yearling only takes a matter of days. It's a rush job. They're not schooled to respond to the same signals that, say, a dressage horse, would respond to. It really is a case of back 'em, get them used to the bridle, lunge them a little, ride 'em. Racing doesn't have the luxury of time. They're raced as 2 year olds, if they're up to it and, the majority of racehorses hit the peak of their careers when they're 3 year olds. Almost all of the 'big races', e.g. the Triple Crown, Breeder's Cup, etc. are for 3 year olds.
Then there's the injuries and the vulnerability to injuries. Tendons, ligaments, etc.
Then, there's the stable routine. They're high maintenance, they're used to being handled in a certain way. Rehabilitation isn't just about retraining them, it's about them getting used to being handled differently. Sadly, a fair few racehorses aren't used to having people spend a lot of time making a fuss of them and showering them with affection. Some of them don't know how to take it - they haven't been taught the same stable manners as a regular riding horse.

The other thing is finance. Unless your MC is being paid by owners or has a sponsor, to retrain, there's not a lot of money in it. Another favorite saying of hubby's is "How do you make a small fortune in racing? Start off with a large one." :D

hope this helps
 

jclarkdawe

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I'm working on a story set in Kentucky, with the main family being involved in TB breeding/training. For racing? Or show? In racing, usually there is one farm for breeding, one farm for weanlings and training, and then a third for actually racing. Most specialize in one activity. I'll give a bit of background, and then ask my questions, if that's okay...

So, the main character is a horse trainer. For racing or showing? Big difference. Her husband (soon to be ex-husband) is a member of a successful TB breeding family - lots of money and prestige. She's set herself up to retrain their OTTBs - probably mostly hunter/jumper, but she's a horsewoman, not just a rider, and I think she'd be good at finding the strengths of each horse and working with that. She's not going to be in prime territory. There's not enough money in showing compared to racing to compete.

I have experience riding, so I'm okay with that part of things, but I know next to nothing about the business side of TBs.

I'd like to mess with the family, a bit. I'd like it if my MC continued to have moderate success, while the main family (the ones involved in the racing side of things) experience financial difficulties. So I'm trying to find ways for that to happen. I don't need all the details, but the big picture would be great.

So, does anyone know...

- is it fairly common for 'big name' breeders to just sort of fade out, or is there usually more stability in the industry? Take a look at Wild Ride: The Rise and Tragic Fall of Calumet Farm Inc., America's Premier Racing Dynasty. There is a fair amount of stability, but the disasters are there.

- are there specific errors that family members could have made that would contribute to their failures? Like, I'm thinking that they could have sold one or more horses, thinking that they lacked potential, and then the horses turned out to be great. Is there anything else like this that they might have run into? You know how you make a small fortune in horse breeding? Start with a large one.

You have messes like Man O'War who was bred to lousy mares for way too long, horses bought at Kneeland for five million that never race, stallions that can't breed, and foals dying for no reason.

One thing you need to really understand about a Thoroughbred breeding operation. The stallion. Stallions are bought usually after their third year of racing, but there is a wide variation. A stallion is bought on shares, of which there are normally 120 shares. So for a stallion that is bought for $1.2 million, that means each share is valued at $10,000.

Each shareholder is entitled to a breeding. This means that the shareholder can either offer a mare or sell the breeding. Normal expectation is that a stallion will breed 40 mares per season, although this is changing. Each mare will be covered three or more times to insure she has conceived.

So the stallion retires in the fall of 2010 and is sold for stud for $1.2 million. In the spring of 2011, he starts his new career and breeds 40 mares. His stud fee is $10,000, which is also the value of a share. Revenue to the farm is $400,000, subject to discount for the live foal guarantee.

The mares he got pregnant in 2011 foal in 2012 (gestation is about eleven months). The stallion breeds a further 40 mares, earning another $400,000. Notice we still have no idea how well the stallion is transferring his racing ability.

The foals that were born in 2011 are yearlings in 2012. Notice none of them are getting anywhere near the track for quite a while yet. Meanwhile, the stallion earns another $400,000, earning back his purchase price.

In the fall of 2012, some of the yearlings will begin racing. Nearly all will be racing by the spring of 2013. This is the first time when we will actually find out whether the stallion is actually able to produce quality foals. This delay (and there's no way around it) is the entire foundation of the Thoroughbred industry. It's built on faith, and guts that your faith is right.

- are there any breeders big enough (or in towns small enough) that they contribute a LOT to the local economy? Like, so that the breeder's slump would lead to a slump in the town itself? Take a look at Calumet.

- any recommendations of books or websites that would help me get an idea of day-to-day operations on a breeding/training farm? Try Country Life Diary : Three Years in the Life of a Horse Farm (Revised Edition)

- anything else I should know? Does my original set up, with the MC doing the post-racing training, sound reasonable? I don't want her to be rich, but I'd like her to be making an independent living.

Thanks for any help!

In Thoroughbred breeding, taxes can be a big factor in life.

Feel free to PM me with other questions.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

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I've been working with horses (including off the track Thoroughbreds) for almost 40 years. I spent a lot of time at a Thoroughbred breeding farm in Massachusetts, which is now a housing development. As Jim says, if you want to make a small fortune in horses, start with a large one. Feel free to pm me with questions.

Being from the northeast, I can't answer specific questions about Kentucky and their economy, but here in New Hampshire our TB track switched to harness racing and is constantly threatening to fold completely. Many of the local trainers went to Pennsylvania when Rockingham closed, as they wouldn't run at Suffolk. There are so many layers in the racing industry, and so many different levels, you could tell any one of a million different stories and make it work.

See that horse over there, to the left? His name is Aggressive Brass, and he's a New York bred TB who was on the track until he was ten.
 
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shaldna

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This is what I did at college, and where I have worked most of my life, so this is sooo my area. I also retrain OTTB for showing and dressage. :)

So, the main character is a horse trainer. Her husband (soon to be ex-husband) is a member of a successful TB breeding family - lots of money and prestige. She's set herself up to retrain their OTTBs - probably mostly hunter/jumper, but she's a horsewoman, not just a rider, and I think she'd be good at finding the strengths of each horse and working with that.

Firstly, this doesn't happen in racing yards. There simply isn't time or space or the money. The sad truth of it is, that racing is a business, and very few ex racers are actually rehomed or retrained, most are destroyed. I think, in this situation, if it maybe started with one horse and sort of snowballed then it might work, but in practice it's just not what happens.


I'd like to mess with the family, a bit. I'd like it if my MC continued to have moderate success, while the main family (the ones involved in the racing side of things) experience financial difficulties. So I'm trying to find ways for that to happen. I don't need all the details, but the big picture would be great.

I like the idea here, but not sure how you will distinguish the two,

- is it fairly common for 'big name' breeders to just sort of fade out, or is there usually more stability in the industry?


They don't fade out, they go bust. Two major studs in Ireland have gone bust in the last two years. No one 'fades' out if they are a mjor player. It's more liekly to be a sudden death of a stallion (literally millions of pounds of revenue lkost in a year) or a crash in teh economony (like we have now) that causes TB prices to plummet. For example, my broodmare got 60k at aution last summer, when I bought her this year it was for a bottle of whiskey and gas money. TB's are a very volatile market, and horses are either worth a fortune or nothing at all.


- are there specific errors that family members could have made that would contribute to their failures? Like, I'm thinking that they could have sold one or more horses, thinking that they lacked potential, and then the horses turned out to be great. Is there anything else like this that they might have run into?

actually, selling a horse that turned out to be great is a good thing, as you will always be the breeder, and people in the industry will come back to you. People have favourite bloodlines sure, but it's winners and current popularity that they care about. For instance, I own a mare who came of the track ten years ago, had a couple of foals etc, nothing major. Then Sea the Stars (her nephew) won the guineas and suddenly that whole line is popular again and I made twice as much with this foal as I expected.

In my experience the main reason for failure at a TB stud is often stallion realted - infertility, death etc. But also, trends in the market, for instance, if you have a stallion who's offspring are doing really well then you will always be able to sell, but if hisoff spring aren't doing well then you have and issue.

I know several stallions that I love - I had a saddlers wells mare who was the most amazig mare on the planet, but she was totally useless when it came to racing. I had a Machavellian mare who was a bitch, and that put me off him as a stallion. Bear in mind that not all TB's are race producers. For example, in Ireland there's Zero Watt, who was a decent racehorse in his time, but he doesn't breed racehorses, his offspring excel at eventing, so that's what people go to him for. I have one of his offspring, and I know two other people who have them too, I compete mine at Intermediate dressage and the other two are eventers.

- are there any breeders big enough (or in towns small enough) that they contribute a LOT to the local economy? Like, so that the breeder's slump would lead to a slump in the town itself?

Not really. Yards tend to employ low paid workers. Places I have worked might have 20 staff, but they are all on crap wages and mostly come from out of town.

- any recommendations of books or websites that would help me get an idea of day-to-day operations on a breeding/training farm?

Try 'Stud : Adventures in Breeding' http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0747561761/?tag=absolutewrite-21

Enemy number one http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/190515660X/?tag=absolutewrite-21

Any of the Arkle books by Sean Magee, Jenny Pitmans books are awesome too. She's a racehorse trainer who writes fiction aboutracehorse training. I met her some years ago at college when she came to give a talk, and she's an amazing woman.

[quote[- anything else I should know? Does my original set up, with the MC doing the post-racing training, sound reasonable? I don't want her to be rich, but I'd like her to be making an independent living.[/quote]

Honestly, in my experience, not really. There simply isn't time for that. The sad fact of it is that you have breeders, you have trainers and you have wasteage.

Most breeders don't train. Not big operations anyway. Horses are sold at auction as foals, yearlings, two year olds and breeze ups. After that if they aren't sold they are either sent to a local horse sale, or kept if they are a mare, or destroyed.

In terms of racing it's the same, in Ireland and the UK there are all sorts of regualtion about owning horses and training them. Most racehorses are owned by individuals or syndicates. Yards don't generlly own them, they just train them. Simply because it's not finacially viabe for t a yard to train it's own horses.

If a horse isn't performing, most owners will either sell it on or destroy it.

It sounds harsh, but bear in mind that it's all financially driven. I have seen horses who don't sell at auction being left behind at sales by the owners because they can't afford to keep them.

All my OTTB's that I have I got for free. I have a friend who got a granddaughter of Secretariat for free.

retrainging of OTTB's is a very time consuming and often unrewarding experience. People don't generally do it as a living. It's usually individuals taking on one horse at a time.

You should check out the ROR www.ror.org.uk
 

shaldna

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Also, I should point out that there is a huge difference between Flat bred horses and National Hunt (Jump) horses.

Flat bred horses are backed and raced at 2, they tend to be smaller, finer and retire by 6.

National Hunt/Jump racing tend to be bigger, more sturdy horses. They start racing in and around 4 and can continute until they are ten, or more. I've know nation hunt horses to be 14 and still racing. That would be completely unheard of in flat racing
 

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Thanks so much for all the great information, everybody! (I have this strange urge to keep coming up with more and more obscure questions, just to see how deep this vein of knowledge runs, but I will resist - people are not here for my experimentation!) You've all given me some great ideas, here and in PMs. If anyone ever needs to know anything about being a high school teacher in small town Ontario, I'm your girl! (huh, not an overwhelming demand, eh? strange.)

Anyway - Jim, I loved your idea (in PM) of having one of the characters be the stud manager - he's sort of a gruff, hard-to-get-along-with guy with a good heart, so I think it'd be great for him to have a job where he works intensely with a few animals.

Firedrake and Shaldna - I hear what you're saying about the complexity of retraining race horses. I think I WANT that - the MC originally got into it when she married into the family. She was a horsewoman but didn't want to be involved in the racing side of things, so she set herself up on a little patch of land near the main farm to rehabilitate their rejects. Because she was married to money, she was able to do it mostly as a full-time hobby, without worrying too much about making a living. And the family didn't mind because it kept her out of their hair, and was good PR for the family (they're ethical, they don't just send their horses for dog food.) Now that the marriage is ending, (and her husband's being a pain about finances), she's struggling to make it work. In a general sense, I'm thinking she pastures them for six months to a year, until they calm down, then brings them in and starts training, figures out their strengths and goes from there. Does all this sound at least possible, or have I gone right off the rails? One problem might be that I seem to be moving in the direction of having the main family involved in breeding, rather than training, so possibly they wouldn't really have rejects of their own...damn. Maybe she just gets her horses from a variety of trainers, but that would mean that she's not really as tied in to the family business as I wanted her to be. (I'm trying to make the divorce as complicated as I can). I guess I could make the family trainers, instead, but I feel like I have a better handle on the day-to-day operations of a horse breeding facility rather than a training one...

And, a few extra questions - I was under the impression that most big name stallions would be heavily insured, so that a problem with a stallion wouldn't really drag the business down. Am I wrong on this? Or are there some things that stallions aren't insured against? I was thinking of maybe having the family invest heavily in a certain line, and then have something go wrong with that line, rather than with the actual horses that the family owns, so that insurance wouldn't apply? Like, non-dramatically, maybe the horses from that line just don't perform as well as people thought they would - more dramatically, are there any genetic flaws that could show up in a whole line of horses, but take a while to be caught?

Thanks again for all the expertise!
 

shaldna

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Okay, I feel mean for bursting a bubble here, but I have some info that might be of worth to you.

The average OTTB sells for less then £1000. That's not much.

But, consider at least 6months feed, worming, vets fees and you can add AT LEAST another £700 on top of that. (that's not including stabling because I assume the character has facilities of her own)

Now, in very basic terms, that's £1700 (not including the time YOU spend retraining and schooling them) for a horse who is maybe going to make £1500 when sold.

Trust me, I've done it. I know the figures. No one makes a profit doing it. No one.

People do it out of love, compassion, as a hobby. But if she is relying on this as a business then she's gonna go bust.
 

shaldna

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One problem might be that I seem to be moving in the direction of having the main family involved in breeding, rather than training, so possibly they wouldn't really have rejects of their own

correct.


I was under the impression that most big name stallions would be heavily insured, so that a problem with a stallion wouldn't really drag the business down. Am I wrong on this? Or are there some things that stallions aren't insured against?


Yes and no. This is the thing with very expensive horses, most insurers won't touch them. The majorit of racehorses aren't insured becuase they are such high risk. Stallions at stud, if insured, will be insured for cost price only. So that might be £500k, but if that stallion is covering 50 mares a year at £100k each then the owner will have lost a massive revenie stream.

Also, most insurance policies don't cover for infertility.


I was thinking of maybe having the family invest heavily in a certain line, and then have something go wrong with that line, rather than with the actual horses that the family owns, so that insurance wouldn't apply?

This doesn't happen. Each stud will have several independant stallions, they will NEVER rely on just one line because the market is so variable.

Like, non-dramatically, maybe the horses from that line just don't perform as well as people thought they would - more dramatically, are there any genetic flaws that could show up in a whole line of horses, but take a while to be caught?

genetic conditions in TB's are caught within a year. The standards in the industry are so tight that it has to be that way. Although to be honest there aren't that many genetic conditions that affect horses. Horses are screen at various stages through their life time, and especially stallions.

No horse person is going to put all their eggs in one basket.

The average stud will have up to 100 mares of different breeding, and maybe 8 or 10 stallions that they use. This doen't include mares coming in from outside.


There are lots of different lines in TB's, and people cross match them all the time. No one invests in just one.
 

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I'm happy to have bubbles burst if they're bad bubbles - thanks!

Can you think of any peripheral-but-still-horse-related businesses that ARE financially viable? This is Kentucky, not Ireland, so there wouldn't be the same jump-racing culture, but if you have any ideas related to flat racing, that'd be really appreciated!
 

shaldna

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I'm happy to have bubbles burst if they're bad bubbles - thanks!

Can you think of any peripheral-but-still-horse-related businesses that ARE financially viable? This is Kentucky, not Ireland, so there wouldn't be the same jump-racing culture, but if you have any ideas related to flat racing, that'd be really appreciated!


It's hard to say to be honest. There's a not a lot you can do with racehorses after retirement other than retrain.

What if she was branching out into warmbloods instead? Or crossing over into jump racing? That would be more finacially viable for her as well as earning ridicule from the family.

And it would tie her to the business if she was using their stallions.
 

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I remember a few years ago when Cigar retired, then had all those mares booked to him, and none caught...and it turned out he had a genetic malformation of the sperm. Breedings usually stipulate no money is due until the foal is born, alive and (usually) healthy. So this could be a huge loss of potential income.

Just something I was thinking about as I read all these posts by people much more knowledgeable than me...
 

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That Cigar thing was useful - looks like it led to a $25M insurance claim! Now, his stud fees were apparently $75K, so he could have earned $3M a year (if he got 50 live foals) - I guess most studs can work for more than 8 years, so it's still a loss for his owners, but a pretty nice cushion!

And, Shaldna - do you know about jump-racing in the US? From what I know, it's a pretty tiny niche, more of a novelty than a big business, but I'm not part of the industry. Is it getting more popular, do you know?
 

jclarkdawe

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And, a few extra questions - I was under the impression that most big name stallions would be heavily insured, so that a problem with a stallion wouldn't really drag the business down. Am I wrong on this? If you really want to know about horse insurance, read IN HOT BLOOD by Ken Englade. You'll probably have to borrow it from a library, as it is a way out of print. Stallions are typically valued at approximately three times their yearly stud fee. A stud can breed well into its teens, and some have been successful into their twenties. What you're looking at is a revenue stream. The idea behind insurance is to replace the lost asset. So if you can go out and buy a replacement stud, in theory you should be okay.

If you can find the book on Calumet, you'll find that one of the problems it suffered was the loss of a stud. Not the only thing that destroyed it, but a factor.

Or are there some things that stallions aren't insured against? The policies for high end studs are very individualistic. Depends upon what the stud owner wants. One typical exclusion is the stallion being kicked by the mare during breeding. (Sometimes she just ain't in the mood.) Normally a mare will be in hobbles to prevent this, but accidents happen. Usually the damage is to the hind feet, but the mare can connect where gelding becomes the only option.

I was thinking of maybe having the family invest heavily in a certain line, and then have something go wrong with that line, rather than with the actual horses that the family owns, so that insurance wouldn't apply? Usually the purchase contract for the stallion guarantees that the stallion will produce viable foals. You might want to look at BANKER by Dick Francis where he deals with this issue in a novel. Definitely some studs just don't produce performers. And then you have issues like the Northern Dancer line which runs good, but is vicious. My personal favorite (before the days of AI) was the stud that liked geldings. Absolutely no interest in mares.

Like, non-dramatically, maybe the horses from that line just don't perform as well as people thought they would - more dramatically, are there any genetic flaws that could show up in a whole line of horses, but take a while to be caught? Breeding nicks produce certain behaviors that are not genetic flaws. However, these behaviors can definitely impact the value of the foals, which reduces or increases the cost of the stud fee.

Thanks again for all the expertise!

Okay, I feel mean for bursting a bubble here, but I have some info that might be of worth to you.

The average OTTB sells for less then £1000. That's not much.

But, consider at least 6months feed, worming, vets fees and you can add AT LEAST another £700 on top of that. (that's not including stabling because I assume the character has facilities of her own)

Now, in very basic terms, that's £1700 (not including the time YOU spend retraining and schooling them) for a horse who is maybe going to make £1500 when sold.

Trust me, I've done it. I know the figures. No one makes a profit doing it. No one.

People do it out of love, compassion, as a hobby. But if she is relying on this as a business then she's gonna go bust. In the US, some racing commissions encourage programs in which retired Thoroughbreds are given away to be retrained. Better image for the industry then sending them to the canners.

I know one woman who picks up breakdowns for free, and retrains over about a year, and usually averages about $20,000 per horse when she sells them (this obviously is down at the moment). But she has lots of contacts from both the racing and the eventing end to make this work. Shaldna's experience is more typical.

Yes and no. This is the thing with very expensive horses, most insurers won't touch them. The majorit of racehorses aren't insured becuase they are such high risk. Stallions at stud, if insured, will be insured for cost price only. So that might be £500k, but if that stallion is covering 50 mares a year at £100k each then the owner will have lost a massive revenie stream. Horse insurance was popular in the 1980s, but is steadily becoming harder to find and much more expensive, for reasons having nothing to do with horses. Most farms insure to limit the damage. High deductibles (like a hundred thousand to a million) are usual in the industry.

Also, most insurance policies don't cover for infertility. Infertility is usually covered in the purchase contract.

This doesn't happen. Each stud will have several independant stallions, they will NEVER rely on just one line because the market is so variable. Absolutely. Most farms rely on at least three studs. Among other things, this produces a variable pricing structure.

Genetic conditions in TB's are caught within a year. The standards in the industry are so tight that it has to be that way. Although to be honest there aren't that many genetic conditions that affect horses. Horses are screen at various stages through their life time, and especially stallions.

No horse person is going to put all their eggs in one basket.

The average stud will have up to 100 mares of different breeding, and maybe 8 or 10 stallions that they use. This doen't include mares coming in from outside. In Lexington, usually slightly less stallions and more mares. Remember that the mares need to be around for at least a month and that ideally are bred very shortly after giving birth.

There are lots of different lines in TB's, and people cross match them all the time. No one invests in just one. Breeding nicks are an art and a science. People spend lots of time and money playing around with this stuff.

That Cigar thing was useful - looks like it led to a $25M insurance claim! Now, his stud fees were apparently $75K, so he could have earned $3M a year (if he got 50 live foals) - I guess most studs can work for more than 8 years, so it's still a loss for his owners, but a pretty nice cushion! If I remember right, the sellers of Cigar to stud were the insurance holders. As part of the contract to sell, they guaranteed that Cigar would be fertile. (I believe testing was done at the time of sale. I think he had swimmers that couldn't get the job done.) For the insurance company, this is a low risk type policy only covering limited contigencies. Result when it was discovered is that the purchase price was eventually returned (lots of negotiations went on here before anything happened -- it was a mess). Insurance company ended up owning the horse, which they then donated to the Kentucky Horse Park. I don't believe that the breeder had actually paid the full price yet.

And, Shaldna - do you know about jump-racing in the US? From what I know, it's a pretty tiny niche, more of a novelty than a big business, but I'm not part of the industry. Is it getting more popular, do you know? Not really. It's big event is in Maryland, I believe, but it's not a big event. Racing as a whole is on the downswing. It's fueled mainly by gamblers (tracks get 15% of every dollar bet, although that money is shared with the state) and gamblers are finding other venues more entertaining.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

firedrake

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I have had an idea, having read through Shaldna and Jim's responses.

Jim's spot-on about National Hunt racing being a niche here.So that line wouldn't fly if the book is set in the UK.

However, I know more than a few Polo ponies have come off the racetrack. There's a hell of a lot of money in Polo because it's a rich man's game. Perhaps your MC could have a rich backer who will finance her rehabbing horses for Polo.

Just a thought.

Having said that, Polo is brutal on horses, absolutely bloody brutal.
 

Twizzle

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*sigh*

I can only speak from my personal exp, esp as I once adopted my own OTTB straight from Rockingham (I also competed in dressage, worked at a local stable for yrs, and my family also owns and breeds warmbloods-farms in VT and FL), but all I'll say is ugh.

In my exp, most were sent off to auction and they sold cheap. They ended up as dog food or charity projects. And I gotta tell you, they were messes. I adopted him from a local rescue org though. Mine was gorgeous-his name was Woe To Me. He had more sense and was less Crazy (and yes, sadly, that's how I characterized a lot of them-Crazy with a cap C. And ohhhh the issues and cribbing and omg, the poor things) than any other racehorse I've ever met. He was injured, though. And not just physically. And it took yrs and yrs and YRS and he still was never fit for a full life. I like to think I gave him a good life, though.

The more successful cases-my aunt would buy up the mares when she could and she would breed them with her warmblood stallions and we'd get some great babies. She'd sell them for lower-end event/dressage prospects. She made great $$$ from that lil side project.

Anyway, the whole topic just breaks my heart. :( Good luck with your book.
 

Horseshoes

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Read up on the X factor-- Marianna Haun's work. It is the bottom line (mare side) of a breeding that passes on the large heart (Secretariat, Seattle Slew..had large hearts that come from five TB lines). The trick is that the progeny get these from double copy dams especially if bred to a large heart-carrying stud....so someone with a large heart stud --a stud who has great earnings--mistakenly breeds the heck out of him assuming his progeny will be earners---=then they aren't but 10-15 years later, his daughters' babies are competing and they are winning big.
 

shaldna

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Jim had a point about infertility being covered in purchasing, HOWEVER, this only applies to an animal bought as breeding stock.

So, if you buy a horse for racing and it's declared fit for purpose, then in five years when it retires it turns out to be infertile, you can't claim because you didn't purchase the animal as breeding stock. That's an important fact to remember, and more than one person has been stung over that.