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View Full Version : Whale kills trainer at SeaWorld.



LOG
02-25-2010, 02:33 AM
That sucks... (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_on_re_us/us_seaworld_death)

ad_lucem
02-25-2010, 03:38 AM
That sucks... (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_on_re_us/us_seaworld_death)

Wow. Well, more proof that mother nature isn't big on the "nuture" and is kind of a hormonal....*bleep*

I got over all my warm fuzzies about animal kind as a OJT vet tech and volunteer years ago. I wouldn't deliberately harm one, but I've got a healthy respect for what big things with pointy teeth can do to a person.

Seaclusion
02-25-2010, 03:40 AM
There's a long thread in PC&E forum about this.


Richard

Silver King
02-25-2010, 04:47 AM
They don't call them killer whales for nothing. They are the most ruthless, smartest and efficient killers in any ocean, bar none. Hell, they even feed on great white sharks.

It is a great folly of humankind to think that we can safely interact with such mammals to "educate" the public, when in fact it's done as just another entertainment venue and a means for a corporation to generate income.

We should be ashamed and outraged that such a practice even exists in the first place.

Jersey Chick
02-25-2010, 04:50 AM
That's my thread! :D

Perhaps a merge????

Silver King
02-25-2010, 05:20 AM
That's my thread! :D

Perhaps a merge????
I haven't had a chance yet to check out the other discussion, but this one seems fine here for now.

Belle_91
02-25-2010, 05:32 AM
I think its great that Sea World does try to educate the public about all ocean life, espically with the endangered ones (which I think orcas are but I could be wrong) but I think sometimes things just get well...to out of hand. I read that this one whale has killed two other people and honestly that sort of creature should not be put into shows any more. I hate to say it but it was like an accident waiting to happen :(

Jersey Chick
02-25-2010, 05:56 AM
SK - Okay - You're da big bad boss fishman! :D

Belle_91
02-25-2010, 05:57 AM
Me?? or were you talking to someone else??...sorry

ad_lucem
02-25-2010, 05:59 AM
They don't call them killer whales for nothing. They are the most ruthless, smartest and efficient killers in any ocean, bar none. Hell, they even feed on great white sharks.

It is a great folly of humankind to think that we can safely interact with such mammals to "educate" the public, when in fact it's done as just another entertainment venue and a means for a corporation to generate income.

We should be ashamed and outraged that such a practice even exists in the first place.

Reminds me of the local "wildlife park" that has frat boys zookeepers/handlers go in and "play" with the tigers for a show. I took the kids once. Only once. I was convinced, as was my oldest, that we very narrowly missed watching a show more on par with Roman blood spectacle than family-friendly edutainment.

son: "I think he wanted to eat that guy."

me: "Yeah, that's kinda what I thought, too, son."

Which leads me to mom's survival rule #1: Never tease a tiger or anything with a name/nickname that includes the word "killer".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_GXWwdzQuE

Found a video of the show. It's still going on. I could be wrong, but every fibre of my being says "accident waiting to happen"...

Maxinquaye
02-25-2010, 06:04 AM
I don't like the word "killer whale". I've seen these animals in the wild, and they are magnificent and glorious: cooperative, inquisitive, and very intelligent. But they are wild animals, and they are predators.

Not something to put on dislay as something "cute" and cuddly.

Belle_91
02-25-2010, 06:05 AM
Well i dont think they "tease them" I've heard that they do activities (and shows) with the whales to keep them from being bored all the time. They give them toys and teach them stuff. Maybe the shows arent a good idea any more but I could kinda see where they were going with that. yeah i would like to think there could be a bond between animal and trainer and im sure to an extent there is but yes they are animals and will act on instinct

but im sure that this particular whale wasnt plucked out of the wild and put into a show, he was probably born in captivity and has known humans all of his/her life.

Either way its very sad and my thoughts are with the family and friends of the trainer

Belle_91
02-25-2010, 06:09 AM
I'm sure the "little" financial boost that the park got from the shows didnt discourage them from shutting the shows down either...when people think seaworld they think shamu and of course the whales

ad_lucem
02-25-2010, 06:10 AM
Well i dont think they "tease them" I've heard that they do activities (and shows) with the whales to keep them from being bored all the time. They give them toys and teach them stuff. Maybe the shows arent a good idea any more but I could kinda see where they were going with that. yeah i would like to think there could be a bond between animal and trainer and im sure to an extent there is but yes they are animals and will act on instinct

but im sure that this particular whale wasnt plucked out of the wild and put into a show, he was probably born in captivity and has known humans all of his/her life.

Either way its very sad and my thoughts are with the family and friends of the trainer

The "tease" comment was directed mostly at the tiger show I saw. There's something about inviting a tiger to tackle you that seems...well...unwise.

Maybe that's not teasing, but I would say it's opening the door for an accident to happen.

As for the whale and the trainer. It's very sad...and like others I question the wisdom of keeping an animal with that particular history in the show.

Jersey Chick
02-25-2010, 06:20 AM
Me?? or were you talking to someone else??...sorry
Sorry - I missed your post. I meant SK - :D

Belle_91
02-25-2010, 06:22 AM
"Maybe that's not teasing, but I would say it's opening the door for an accident to happen.

As for the whale and the trainer. It's very sad...and like others I question the wisdom of keeping an animal with that particular history in the show."

I like this and I agree...sorry I dont know how to qoute

I just think that for right now for this particular group of whales seaworld has to keep them because they've been raised in captivity and wouldnt be able to survive in the wild. but seaworld could stop doing the shows and training new whales...but i think if they did that the park would cease to continue and they do some good to the animal kingdom

Silver King
02-25-2010, 06:42 AM
I know this will sound heartless on my part, but I have no sympathy at all for the trainer or anyone else who deliberately puts themselves in harm's way when interacting with animals that belong in the wild instead of in a controlled environment.

I seriously wish more people would be maimed or killed so that the practice might be discontinued altogether.

sadron
02-25-2010, 12:59 PM
This is sad. I love dolphins and whales. I wonder why the whale killed the trainer. :(

I agree with Silver King, whales or dolphins belongs to the wild nature, not to amuse humans.

When they learn....?

aadams73
02-25-2010, 03:00 PM
When they learn....?

Never. At least not as long as there's money to be made from making animals do funny tricks.

regdog
02-25-2010, 03:43 PM
I agree with SK. Orcas are efficient deadly hunters. No wild animal especially one with an intelligence that far outstrips humans wants to be penned up and perform stupid pet tricks. Any person that thinks they control these animals is setting themselves up for disaster.

These are not domesticated animals. It does not mattered whether they are born in captivity or not. They are predatory hunters who are known to play with their food before they kill.

Even if to the whale this was not an attack but play. This is an animal of immense size and strength. No human can withstand the "play" of an orca. These animals don't spit water and bob their heads as play. They grab, shake, toss, fling, bat, tail slap and leap with tremendous force.

Belle_91
02-25-2010, 07:09 PM
Sadly I have to say that maybe I agree and given this whale's history I dont think he/she should have been performing in any of the shows. I mean I can DEFINATLY see the cons to this sitauation and I know I'm the only one but I see a few of the tiny-weenie pros. But I cant agree with the statement made by Silver_King, I dont wish more people would die to me saying that is just wrong. I hope that SeaWorld and other parks can learn from this ONE lesson without causing harm to anymore people or animals.

BenPanced
02-25-2010, 07:12 PM
There's a long thread in PC&E forum about this.


Richard


That's my thread! :D

Perhaps a merge????


I haven't had a chance yet to check out the other discussion, but this one seems fine here for now.
There are actually two threads in P&CE.

ad_lucem
02-25-2010, 07:49 PM
"Maybe that's not teasing, but I would say it's opening the door for an accident to happen.

As for the whale and the trainer. It's very sad...and like others I question the wisdom of keeping an animal with that particular history in the show."

I like this and I agree...sorry I dont know how to qoute

I just think that for right now for this particular group of whales seaworld has to keep them because they've been raised in captivity and wouldnt be able to survive in the wild. but seaworld could stop doing the shows and training new whales...but i think if they did that the park would cease to continue and they do some good to the animal kingdom

Thanks, History_gal.

I just don't see a lot of sense in doing these shows with whales like Orcas or tigers or any other animal that is a natural predator.

I don't feel so strongly about dolphins. From what I've ever heard about dolphins they don't seem to mind so much, enjoy playing anyway, etc. It just seems a more natural fit for them. And so long as they're being treated well by the people, I don't see too much harm.

Orcas, though... that's just kind of nuts.

semilargeintestine
02-25-2010, 08:09 PM
I know this will sound heartless on my part, but I have no sympathy at all for the trainer or anyone else who deliberately puts themselves in harm's way when interacting with animals that belong in the wild instead of in a controlled environment.

Yeah, that does sound heartless. I could see saying that it shouldn't be unexpected given the nature of what he was doing and the history of the animal (and the type of animal in general), but feeling no sympathy for a person killed by an animal is a little much.



I seriously wish more people would be maimed or killed so that the practice might be discontinued altogether.

Wow. Just, wow.

regdog
02-25-2010, 08:36 PM
Thanks, History_gal.

I just don't see a lot of sense in doing these shows with whales like Orcas or tigers or any other animal that is a natural predator.

I don't feel so strongly about dolphins. From what I've ever heard about dolphins they don't seem to mind so much, enjoy playing anyway, etc. It just seems a more natural fit for them. And so long as they're being treated well by the people, I don't see too much harm.

Orcas, though... that's just kind of nuts.

There have been many reports of attacks by dolphins in swim with dolphin programs. Many people have been bitten, and battered by them. They can be highly aggressive animals.

I don't know if there have been attacks on dolphin trainers

ad_lucem
02-25-2010, 09:15 PM
There have been many reports of attacks by dolphins in swim with dolphin programs. Many people have been bitten, and battered by them. They can be highly aggressive animals.

I don't know if there have been attacks on dolphin trainers

True, they are still animals. Any animal can be aggressive, even our "domesticated" ones.

I guess where my mind is going with this is that dolphins seem a better fit for human interaction than, say, orcas and tigers and bears (oh my :) ).

writerterri
02-25-2010, 10:22 PM
This is the third death the whale has caused and I believe the trainer knew that while she was working with it. It's the known risks that come with the job.


I don't believe the whale should be put down given it is a wild animal in captivity. It should be retired though.


My condolences to the family as well.

veinglory
02-25-2010, 10:47 PM
Apparently the whale was given to Seaworld on the understanding it would be a display animal only. Not in the show. At least that is what The Psychologist reported.

ether
02-26-2010, 12:21 AM
It's sad, and unfortunately it comes with the trade. When you're working with a dangerous animal, you know the risks. It sounds to me that the whale was quite possibly trying to play, but playing with an animal that big is... well, dangerous.

Also, some of the workers claimed that the whales were having an 'off day.' To me, that would be a red flag not to have them performing. If the animals are enjoying it and see it as fun, that's one thing, but trying to force them into doing tricks and performing when they just don't feel like it is asking for problems.

It's unfortunate, because this happens with all kinds of animals. Dogs will snap at their owners/trainers, tigers and bears will attack, etc, but nobody talks about them as much because the fatalities are rare. Take something as massive as an orca, though, and accidents are more prone to leading to death.

I don't think orcas are animals that should be kept in captivity. They're simply too massive and there's no tank that could realistically be made to give them enough room to live comfortably.

And for the love of... this whale was already involved in other deaths?? Why were they having him perform, anyway? He should have been retired years ago.

Belle_91
02-26-2010, 05:10 AM
Also, some of the workers claimed that the whales were having an 'off day.' To me, that would be a red flag not to have them performing. If the animals are enjoying it and see it as fun, that's one thing, but trying to force them into doing tricks and performing when they just don't feel like it is asking for problems.

-I agree with this and also your comments that he should definatly NOT have been in the shows. That was kind of asking for trouble, and while true it is a risk of the job it is still very sad. This trainer seemed to really have a passion for animals and loved working with the whales and its sad that she's now connected with a horrible tragedy

My mom was saying that she flipped her pony-tail and then he attacked and we were both wondering that maybe AT FIRST he thought she was going to give him a fish (like thinking that the pony-tail was a fish or something) but then just-this is a horrible way to put it-got carried away. Anyway they say not many of the trainers worked with this whale, but he should have only been on display given his history

Ken
02-26-2010, 05:31 AM
Apparently the whale was given to Seaworld on the understanding it would be a display animal only. Not in the show. At least that is what The Psychologist reported.

... if that's so the victim's family will have grounds for a lawsuit. I'd like to see that happen as it might to a stop to crazy entertainment acts like this.

Belle_91
02-26-2010, 05:35 AM
I imagine SeaWorld has ALOT of fancy-shamsy lawyers to take care of this sort of thing...I know its kinda of gross to think about but they've probably been really preparing for a thing like this for awhile, they must have known it was bound to happen

someone was saying that the whales seemed aggitated before/during the show and to me that seems like a red flag. when i went to the orlando one a few years ago the whales got a bit cranky and they just cancelled the show. im surprised they didnt do that this time when they acted up again

Ken
02-26-2010, 05:44 AM
... that would have been good if they'd cancelled the act because of its looking agitated. All they'd have had to do would have been to refund the audience's money. I am sure that Sea World would have been more than happy to do that.

Belle_91
02-26-2010, 05:50 AM
I know!! It would be soo simple! Or it would have been :(

ad_lucem
02-26-2010, 06:10 AM
I still say, as a general rule, if it is bigger than you and has sharp-pointy-teeth...don't screw with it...not even if someone pays you to screw with it for the amusement of overweight, badly dressed, big-gulp-sucking throngs at an amusement park. Just don't do it.

BIG with POINTY TEETH and a taste for MEAT...what part of this seems like an invitation to go "playing" with it?

I'm not unsympathetic, I'm just saying... it's big and has pointy teeth for a reason.

CoriSCapnSkip
02-26-2010, 10:58 AM
I imagine SeaWorld has ALOT of fancy-shamsy lawyers to take care of this sort of thing...I know its kinda of gross to think about but they've probably been really preparing for a thing like this for awhile, they must have known it was bound to happen

Well, I hope they don't get rich off it like Wal-Mart.

backslashbaby
02-26-2010, 11:41 AM
I have a healthy respect for dangerous animals, that's for sure.

I've actually swum close to a wild Orca in the ocean. We all did, by accident. There is a certain indescribable terror that comes when seeing the whole shoreful of people screaming for everyone to get out of the water :D The Orca just kept on jumping with the poirposes or dolphins [dunno] and went on his way :)

Belle_91
02-26-2010, 06:44 PM
I think part of the reason seaworld does the shows is so the whales arent bored. I mean it would be real torture if they just sat in a tank all day, doing shows helps keep them active...or at least training them does. And the shows do raise awareness for whales to the public. I think SeaWorld just needs to make changes with the shows and maybe not do them as often or something

I honestly think if these guys were pissed off all of the time and were being treated like crap, SeaWorld would have ALOT more attacks. Orcas dont seem like the type of animal that takes shit from anyone. If I weighed 12,000 pounds I wouldnt take crap from a 200 pound person