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NewKidOldKid
02-23-2010, 09:56 PM
Over the past month, I beta'd two novels. I provided lots of feedback, made plot suggestions, helped with mistakes... The works. With one book, I took a few more days than I had originally promised (because of deadlines) and the writer sent me five different emails asking for an update (I gave her one every time). In both cases, I emailed the manuscript back with a note saying to let me know if they had questions. Can you guess what happened? Utter silence. I never heard from the writers again. Now, I'm doing this as a favor, I'm spending my time helping you make a better book... Is it really out of place to expect a thank you? Nothing fancy. Just a quick email saying Hey, thanks for your time. Am I being petty about this? It actually bothered me and made me rethink whether I want to keep being a Beta.

Chris P
02-23-2010, 10:08 PM
I'm sorry you had that experience. It's probably common, sadly. Shoot, most of the feedback I've given in SYW got little response, so I can imagine how you feel. I'll keep this post in mind when it's time for me to have a beta. I have not yet betad because between two jobs, community involvement, and trying to write I have no time and could not be of much service to the writer.

My suggestion would be to keep doing it if you enjoy it, feedback or not.

jana13k
02-23-2010, 10:15 PM
Extraordinarily rude, but indicative of our "entitled" society. I don't read for anyone I haven't hand chosen. I work a full-time job, have book deadlines and do freelance work. I also have a family, dirty laundry, etc. The one thing I have less of than money is time.

Maybe you need to be more selective, or charge a fee.

incognitopress
02-23-2010, 10:18 PM
methinks if your critique was spot-on and not gushing with praises about the writers' brilliance, they were less enthused to respond. Last time I reviewed someone's memoir (and not harshly, I might add), their feathers were quite ruffled. I never critiqued after that, except in my creative writing class. I mean, why bother? I find that people generally get so defensive, they take editorial criticism personally.

brainstorm77
02-23-2010, 10:21 PM
Over the past month, I beta'd two novels. I provided lots of feedback, made plot suggestions, helped with mistakes... The works. With one book, I took a few more days than I had originally promised (because of deadlines) and the writer sent me five different emails asking for an update (I gave her one every time). In both cases, I emailed the manuscript back with a note saying to let me know if they had questions. Can you guess what happened? Utter silence. I never heard from the writers again. Now, I'm doing this as a favor, I'm spending my time helping you make a better book... Is it really out of place to expect a thank you? Nothing fancy. Just a quick email saying Hey, thanks for your time. Am I being petty with this? It actually bothered me and made me rethink whether I want to keep being a Beta.

I suggest asking the individuals what's up?

ether
02-23-2010, 10:25 PM
I wouldn't beta for anyone who couldn't even take the time to thank me for my efforts. Beta'ing isn't even a matter of just reading and saying if it was good or not, they're expecting you to actually critique and point out things that could use improvement. That's tough work.

NewKidOldKid
02-23-2010, 10:27 PM
One of the books I read was quite good. I let the writer know this right from the beginning and then focused on details that I thought would make the manuscript even better. This was the writer who sent me the five emails. I guess from now on I'll be more selective. I don't get the defensive mentality. I mean, aren't you looking to make your book better? Or do writers just go around searching for someone to tell them how great their book is? "Oh, don't change a thing. It's perfect." No, it's not. No book is. And you asked me to tell you where the imperfections are! I'm sorry, I guess this really bothered me. Maybe more than it should. I'll think twice the next time I'm asked to beta a book.

Wayne K
02-23-2010, 10:32 PM
We should have a bewares thread for such people, but I can see that going horribly awry

mscelina
02-23-2010, 10:34 PM
I only beta for writers that are very good friends of mine anymore. I've had way too many occasions where I'll beta a manuscript--detailed line by line crits--and then the writer would 'miraculously' stop being my friend. There are maybe four people who beta for me regularly and about ten I've done a beta/crit for in the last year. I tend not to move outside that circle because I quite frankly don't have the time. But yeah--a beta without even a thank you grates my oats. Makes it oh SO not worth it.

NewKidOldKid
02-23-2010, 10:41 PM
Thanks. I feel a little better knowing I'm not the only who would react this way.

Chase
02-23-2010, 10:43 PM
You have my sympathy. It's puzzling, the same as when grandkids, nephews, nieces, etc. don't thank or even acknowledge birthday, Christmas, and graduation gifts. It's like they're so entitled that there can be no consequences for rudeness.

It's sometimes the same when you try to answer a question on a subject you've studied or experienced and get ignored.

My rationale is I learn a lot from these forums and like to pay it forward. Still, a beta read is quite a lot of effort, so in that case, I just swap labor. Quid pro quo seems to attract a better class of writers.

Edit. Sorry if I repeated some of the above.

stormie
02-23-2010, 10:48 PM
Oh, I'm sorry this happened to you! Unfortunately, it does happen, more often than not. It happened to me with a former student and with a friend. No thank you, just silence each time.

Two options--be more selective, or state up front what it will cost them for your work and time.

NewKidOldKid
02-23-2010, 11:02 PM
I thought about charging, but then figured I would like to have a beta one day (when/if I finish my book). Since I'm broke, I'd be looking for a free one. So paying it forward (and in advance) seems like the decent thing to do. Chase's suggestion of swapping feedback makes a lot of sense. Maybe that's what I'll do next time.

Cella
02-23-2010, 11:05 PM
I'm sorry this has happened to you, souring your experience. That's very, very rude of someone. :Hug2:

Please hang in there! They're not all like that!

adktd2bks
02-23-2010, 11:26 PM
I do a lot of crits on SYW and about half of them don't ever respond to my critique. I guess that's fairly common in SYW, but for a whole beta read it's very, very rude. My suggestion would be that the next time you volunteer to beta, request one chapter at a time and give comments back in sections. If you start to notice that the writer just isn't responding to your suggestions and making the effort to thank you from the get go, then you can stop the beta without having wasted a lot of your precious time.

Kathleen42
02-23-2010, 11:43 PM
Am I being petty about this? It actually bothered me and made me rethink whether I want to keep being a Beta.

You're not being petty.

KTC
02-23-2010, 11:59 PM
I don't think you're being petty. The least the writer can do is say thank you.

On the flip side...I have let down at least 2 AW members by not following through with a critique of their work. Dropping the ball, as it were. I know how hard it is to devote time to beta/critique other writers...your time should have been thanked. I hope they see this thread and extend an olive branch your way.

Jess Haines
02-24-2010, 12:57 AM
I've had similar experiences. These days, I've limited my beta offers to friends and people whose ideas or work I've already seen inspired me to contact them. It's hardly petty to expect a "thank you" for the work that goes into a beta read.

Marian Perera
02-24-2010, 01:22 AM
I feel a little better knowing I'm not the only who would react this way.

I'd feel likewise. I critique query letters occasionally, but I only beta for one person - an online friend whom I've never met in person but whom I've known for about nine years now.

He's read nearly all the drafts of my manuscripts, chapter by chapter, and has always provided direct and useful feedback. I send him a gift card each time we complete a manuscript, and he's in the acknowledgments of the book I have coming out this year.

Good critiquers aren't easy to find, so I intend to hold on tight to this one. :)

Rowan
02-24-2010, 01:53 AM
I can relate to your experience. I've beta read for a handful of writers who didn't even acknowledge my input. Even when prompted they give you a "yeah, got it." Check out the threads at the top of this forum---you'll find a lot of beta readers in the same boat. As others have said, I now only beta read on a very limited basis. I work F/T and have limited free time so I can understand your frustration. I've even had individuals who don't have one post to their names PM me asking for a beta reader!!! WTFO? Fly by beta reading? No thank you.

Try a beta swap--that way it's a two-way-street. I'm working with someone right now and we're swapping 30-50 pages at a time. Then doing a revise and resbumit, etc. :) So don't give up hope! :)

AuburnAssassin
02-24-2010, 05:34 PM
I think you have every right to be upset too. Whether they found your critique constructive or not, your time alone was worth at least a "thank you". That's never too much to ask.

Aji
02-24-2010, 05:42 PM
Try a beta swap--that way it's a two-way-street. I'm working with someone right now and we're swapping 30-50 pages at a time. Then doing a revise and resbumit, etc. :) So don't give up hope! :)

This was what I was going to suggest. That way, at least you know you're also getting a critique in return if you swap your manuscript in chunks or as a whole and have a predetermined date of when to send it back to your beta partner(s).


I think you have every right to be upset too. Whether they found your critique constructive or not, your time alone was worth at least a "thank you". That's never too much to ask.
Agreed.

setchmo
02-25-2010, 08:52 PM
Bad Karma heading their way. Very uncool. Sorry to hear this happened to you. Some people just don't get it and never will.

Sevvy
02-25-2010, 11:56 PM
Or do writers just go around searching for someone to tell them how great their book is? "Oh, don't change a thing. It's perfect."

Yes, actually, that's exactly what some people do. *shrugs* It's why I don't ever critique for a good friend unless I know they can handle me saying "this could use some work".

HighDesertBrat
02-26-2010, 12:30 AM
A polite thank you note, at least acknowledging the time you put in (even if they didn't like your critique) would have been nice, perhaps even the proper thing to do.

However, do you really do this just as a favor? Personally I learn more from critiquing than I do from receiving crits. Seeing mistakes/inconsistencies/problems in someone else's work makes the light bulb go on over my head. "Ah, that is what *whoever* meant when they said, "blah,blah blah."

M.Austin
02-26-2010, 01:38 AM
I've been getting more thanks lately, but critting someone's work still bothers me. I enjoy doing it and helping people, but I like to see them fix or incorporate changes. I like to see the writer grow as well as their work. I used to get fixed chapters sent back to me. Now it seems like everything I say rolls off their back. Who knows if they took suggestions in? After investing time into their work -- I wish I know. =(!

Sorry this happened to you. Best of luck getting someone who's thankful.

ilookcool
02-26-2010, 01:51 AM
I think swapping beta reading would be the way to go. It's what I'm planning to do when I finish my ms.

AlishaS
02-26-2010, 06:50 AM
I have had the same thing happen to me. When I have beta readers I try and show my appreication during every e-mail and step of the beta read. I know people are taking their on time to read my work and help.
With that said I have had also a couple beta swap read's go awary aswell. I thought this would be the best way to ensure appreciation but since I have more time on my hands then most I read through things rather fast, I usual finish the novel before I get a few chapters back from the other beta and low and behold they drop of the face of the earth.

It's a sad world at times we live in for sure, just remember every person will not be ungreatful so I hope you don't let one bad experience ruin your outlook on beta reading. There are many people who need help and would be more then greatful to have you work with them.

thothguard51
02-26-2010, 08:22 AM
I learned several years ago the pitfalls of beta reading.

Today, I am very selective in who I beta for, especially on-line. Once I get to know them, I set terms and they have to pay me back in kind. 3 chapters or 50 pages a week. We send on Monday and get the critiqued copies back on Sundays. If everything is going well, we can always up the anti by a few chapters. But if they shaft me and do not explain why they are late, then I won't critique anymore till they catch up.

I think some beta readers drop out because they really don't know how to critique, or because it takes more time than they thought. Others may feel their partner has less knowledge and they are getting the short end of the stick.

For me, I have enjoyed beta reading as it gives me an opportunity to see how other authors craft their work in the early stages and the transformation they go through. It also gives me a chance to bounce things about my own work around with other writers who may have input that I did not consider.

For anyone considering beta reading, I say set terms that both can agree with. If you set too high a critique level to start with, chances are your setting up both for failure. But if you find that magical beta who enjoy sparing with you, and you with them, then make sure they know how much you appreciate their input. It makes a world of difference...

Elizabeth Holloway
02-26-2010, 11:11 AM
I'm sorry this happened to you. I feel so lucky I have such an awesome beta-reader. But I have had a not-so-great experience where I've beta-read and the writer responded very defensive and snarky about my comments, then she stopped reading my work and stopped sending me her work to crit. *shrug* Oh well, I'm just happy I have my one really great beta.

profen4
02-26-2010, 09:10 PM
When I beta for someone, I expect one thing, a thank you. Even if you don’t agree with any of my comments, even if you think I’m the worst beta you’ve ever had. I expect a “thank you”. At first I got burned quite a bit, but you know how I fixed that? I started only accepting manuscripts from people on AW who actively participate on the threads, especially if they provide feedback to people on the SYW forum. If their first post is a request for a beta read, the answer from me is “NO”. You can learn a lot from helping people on SYW and reading the thoughtful comments that others provide.

I’ve been very lucky with the last dozen or so beta’s I’ve done, and am happy to do it since people did it for me. But you are absolutely right that a “thank you” is expected.

smcc360
02-26-2010, 09:20 PM
I agree completely. I've never beta-read (yet), but I can understand the frustration. Even something so relatively minor as a Sandbox reply deserves a 'thank you' (which AW's rep system makes very easy). I've offered commentary on Sandbox posts which went unremarked, and the solution is simple-- that poster no longer exists as far as I'm concerned. I may be missing out on the reincarnation of Ernest Hemingway, but that's a chance I'm willing to take.

At the risk of sounding like an old fart, we may just be turning into a nation of self-entitled twats. I blame the generation immediately after mine, the media trend-piece name of which escapes me at the moment. Lousy punks!

:Soapbox:

AuburnAssassin
02-27-2010, 01:13 AM
I've been getting more thanks lately, but critting someone's work still bothers me. I enjoy doing it and helping people, but I like to see them fix or incorporate changes. I like to see the writer grow as well as their work. I used to get fixed chapters sent back to me. Now it seems like everything I say rolls off their back. Who knows if they took suggestions in? After investing time into their work -- I wish I know. =(!


I don't want or need to know nor do I necessarily want my beta readers to check back in with me to see how I addressed their suggestions. I may not agree with all of them. I never do. I do seriously consider them all, however, and I think that and showing appreciation for their time and effort, their objective opinion and their knowledge is sufficient.

The only time I'd care about closing the loop is when doing a chapter by chapter feed and the author changes something that I already critiqued that impacts the later chapters they'll send me. If I won't be able to understand the later chapters based upon the draft I read, then I need to see a revision so that the plot and logic still works.

Finolala
02-28-2010, 01:46 AM
That is ridiculously rude. The few times people have taken the time to actually critique my work and give constructive criticism I've been unendingly grateful, anyone can give you the "Gee, that's great" response. Hope you have better luck in the future.

carlasofia9
02-28-2010, 05:33 AM
I've just recently learned about beta readers, and I couldn't believe that there were people out there who were willing to give up their time to altruistically help a fellow writer. I think the least someone can do is acknowledge their beta for the time and effort they've put into helping you essentially become a better writer.

Reading all of the posts from people who have given up beta reading because they've been "burned" in the past is disheartening.

Libbie
02-28-2010, 06:16 AM
No, you are not being unreasonable. A simple "thank you" is great. Patience is even better. You're taking time away from your own writing to beta their stuff. Returning the favor and providing you with a thoughtful critique is the least they could do in return.

This is why I don't beta read for most people. Only a very small number of people I already know. It's just too frustrating.

Anaquana
02-28-2010, 06:41 AM
With that said I have had also a couple beta swap read's go awary aswell. I thought this would be the best way to ensure appreciation but since I have more time on my hands then most I read through things rather fast, I usual finish the novel before I get a few chapters back from the other beta and low and behold they drop of the face of the earth.



I've had this happen to me too. I beta'ed for a member of my (former) writing group, then when I sent her mine never heard anything back.

I also spent weeks tearing apart a 150k word monstrosity for another group member and all I got back on her critique of mine were a bunch of positive comments with an occasional punctuation correction thrown in.

I walked away from that group and will now think long and hard the next time somebody asks me to beta something for them.

agentpaper
02-28-2010, 05:02 PM
I agree with everyone on this thread. I've been lucky, for the most part, that the very first beta I found has been a tremendous help for me. But when I went to get some more beta readers, I was devastated. They both read about 3 chapters, while I beta'd their's, and then when I returned their mss to them, I never heard from them again. :( In the meantime, I sent out my mss and received an offer of rep, so I emailed them both back telling them to forget it, I'd found an agent. Even then I never received a response. So, even swapping didn't seem to help. I will think long and hard before swapping for another beta read.

thethinker42
02-28-2010, 05:40 PM
To play a TEENY weeny bit of devil's advocate...a beta of mine has never let me forget the time I didn't respond to a crit. It's been months, and I still haven't heard the end of it, mostly by way of passive aggressive snipes, etc.

The thing is...I *did* respond. I sent back my usual "Thank you for your comments, etc etc etc". For whatever reason, she didn't get it. Spam filter? Internet hiccup on her end or mine? I have no idea. When she e-mailed to ask if I'd gotten the crit, I replied with something to the effect of "Oh yes, I e-mailed you on X date..." Didn't matter.

So...I would send a gentle nudge to make sure they got the crit, which will also give them another opportunity to express some gratitude.

That said, I'm absolutely not advocating rudeness or silence. That irritates me as well, and is one reason I don't beta except for a select few. I don't think anyone should have to fish for thanks, I'm just offering two cents from someone who's been dragged over the coals for a long time over a misunderstanding/miscommunication.

profen4
02-28-2010, 06:09 PM
One experience that still bothers me to this day - I did a swap with someone - My mss. was 85K words, theirs was 74K words. When I got mine back it had a note that read "Since mine was only 74K words, that's where I stopped with yours too. That way it would be a fair trade."

Needless to say, when this person emailed me a couple weeks ago to see if she could swap with me again, the answer was "NO!"

I mean, one of the main things you want from a beta is to tell you if you've left any glaring holes in your plot, or how they liked it? did the ending work? etc, etc...

Argh... it still urks me.

AuburnAssassin
02-28-2010, 07:10 PM
One experience that still bothers me to this day - I did a swap with someone - My mss. was 85K words, theirs was 74K words. When I got mine back it had a note that read "Since mine was only 74K words, that's where I stopped with yours too. That way it would be a fair trade."

Needless to say, when this person emailed me a couple weeks ago to see if she could swap with me again, the answer was "NO!"

I mean, one of the main things you want from a beta is to tell you if you've left any glaring holes in your plot, or how they liked it? did the ending work? etc, etc...

Argh... it still urks me.
That's the dumbest, most aggravating thing I've ever heard. She stopped reading with 11k to go? I guess you should have used more contractions and acronyms, huh? Sheesh, that's probably someone who also demands change back from a restaurant server so that (s)he can withhold that extra nickel to keep the tip at exactly 15%.

thmafi
02-28-2010, 09:16 PM
wow. i've never worked with a beta reader before, but i can't imagine someone being selfish and/or ungrateful for the help. we're all here because we want our books to get BETTER, because we want to succeed in the literary industry. if people can't handle that kind of critique and know when to say thank you for it, how will they ever survive an agent/editor/publisher/amazon reviewer's feedback??

being humble and gracious will never hurt. i remind myself every day.

on a lighter note -- i think all of the AWers on this thread sound like pretty darn reliable betas. maybe you can all pick and choose from each other now??

tehe :D

AuburnAssassin
02-28-2010, 10:35 PM
I will say this, though, finding a good one is a blessed thing and I've been far more fortunate than unfortunate in that respect. Knock wood.

Rowan
02-28-2010, 11:48 PM
Beta reading is a two-way street. You not only improve your writing by getting critiqued but also by critiquing someone else's work. When it works out--it can be a fantastic experience. When it doesn't...well, I go to the range and pop off a few. Hundred. :)

Seriously, I have a friend (editor) who edits my work line-by-line. Sometimes it's hard to swalllow some of the comments. I find that reading through it then taking a step back and reading through it again (later) helps. Also, you're not expected to accept every change/edit/comment a beta makes. Sometimes the change will negatively impact your voice or style. It's okay to pass on some edits or even merge them with your ideas or existing work (a compromise). But even if you don't agree a simple thank you is appropriate.

As for responding to critiques... if I don't agree with someone I don't necessarily get into a debate with them or address every single comment they made. I might choose a few key points and ask them to elaborate, etc. I don't mind if writers ask me to elaborate on my comments either but one thing that frustrates me is when a writer dismisses everything you've said. If your work is so perfect then why are you seeking a beta reader's opinion???? So I agree with what others have stated: at least consider what a beta tells you. :)

icerose
03-01-2010, 12:02 AM
I've learned that upon entering a betaing exchange whether it be my book to them or their book to me I like a coversation that basically explains what I'm looking for/they're looking for, expectations, so on and so forth BEFORE the beta begins. Getting those out and in the open have made my experiences much smoother in general. I had two wonderful betas this last time and although I didn't agree with everything, they did countless things to help me improve the piece and give me a solid idea of what I needed to change even if I didn't agree with the how.

The editing on my part is slow going though and it's not because of them, it's just because me and editing don't really get along. But it's one of those necessary evils.

As for the SYW my line below my name is best suited. At the end of the day I sleep happy knowing I did my share and hope it at least in some small way pays back the good people who have read my stuff and commented.

jvc
03-01-2010, 12:25 AM
We should have a bewares thread for such people, but I can see that going horribly awry
Yeah, Wayne, nope, not a good idea that. Nope. Not at all. Although, come to think of it ... nope. Not good. Not good at all.

icerose
03-01-2010, 12:30 AM
Adding to my previous comment, once I started looking at it as a pay-it-forward deal rather than a give and take all me irritations with beta-ing evaporated. It doesn't matter anymore what someone takes from my beta or critique, all that matters is that I'm putting my knowledge and experiences out there and hopefully it'll help someone else as I have been helped in the past. At least that's the way I look at it, and magically the chip on my shoulder disappeared. Thanks are nice but I no longer need them nor will I argue with someone who disagrees with my critique anymore. I did my part today. That's all that matters to me.

nitaworm
03-01-2010, 12:59 AM
I beta all the time, but usually I try to do a beta switch. When you do that you know that the writer is just as appreciative as you are. Now yes, I've beta'd and didn't get a response, but my motto is, "Don't sweat the small stuff." So I just know not to beta for that person again. That's why I generally do not just beta without reading a sample of the work first (to make sure they at least attempted to edit it) and try to work out a switch - counted it as - lesson learned.

ilookcool
03-01-2010, 09:47 PM
One experience that still bothers me to this day - I did a swap with someone - My mss. was 85K words, theirs was 74K words. When I got mine back it had a note that read "Since mine was only 74K words, that's where I stopped with yours too. That way it would be a fair trade."

Needless to say, when this person emailed me a couple weeks ago to see if she could swap with me again, the answer was "NO!"

I mean, one of the main things you want from a beta is to tell you if you've left any glaring holes in your plot, or how they liked it? did the ending work? etc, etc...

Argh... it still urks me.

Wow, how rude she was! Well, whatever goes around comes around.

brainstorm77
03-01-2010, 10:01 PM
One experience that still bothers me to this day - I did a swap with someone - My mss. was 85K words, theirs was 74K words. When I got mine back it had a note that read "Since mine was only 74K words, that's where I stopped with yours too. That way it would be a fair trade."

Needless to say, when this person emailed me a couple weeks ago to see if she could swap with me again, the answer was "NO!"

I mean, one of the main things you want from a beta is to tell you if you've left any glaring holes in your plot, or how they liked it? did the ending work? etc, etc...

Argh... it still urks me.

Wow is all I can say about that...

Doug Johnson
03-03-2010, 06:07 AM
My initial response to criticism is always homicidal rage, but I get over it and say thank you. In fact, I buy most of my beta readers lunch.

If any of you want to beat the hell out of a manuscript, and be thanked for it. I'm your guy.

I'm looking for a couple of final beta reader before my novel enters the slush pile. It has been read by 2 AWers, three professional writers, two TV producers, a couple of people I trust to give me their honest opinion and an expert in criminal psychology. All of whom were thanked. In fact, if you live near Toronto, I will buy you lunch for reading it.

I'm looking for a couple of final readers who can help me identify any and all weaknesses.

PM me if you're interested.

And just for everyone's information, neither of my two AW beta readers have responded to my heh what's up emails. I'm not sure what that means. Perhaps the bond between beta readers and writers isn't as strong as it may appear.

luv lit
03-03-2010, 07:02 AM
Hi the idea of a beta reader is really good, and I know I would benefit from it, I am a reject from the PA author factory, or should I say I hope they reject me. I couldn't beta anyone right now, I myself have too much to learn, I don't have enough experience to tell anyone how to write. I have a WIP, and I am trying to meet people I think I would most benefit from when the time comes I am ready for someone to critique it. The novel is 50% done, I know everything I want to say, so plot and ending is no problem. How does this work? I'm not a computer geek, can, when I'm ready and make my choice on a reader mail it. I would much prefer that over sending MS over PC. I can handle emails and thats about it. Like I said I'm not ready yet, just looking for the perfect person who will be able to help with my YA novel.

Elizabeth Holloway
03-03-2010, 07:17 AM
Doug Johnson and Luv lit, you may get more attention if you post your own thread in the Betas sub forum.

Good beta readers are precious, wonderful people. Treat them like gold. :)

NewKidOldKid
03-03-2010, 02:52 PM
I agree. Start a new thread with a brief description of your book and what you're looking for in a Beta (overall impression, detailed critiques, etc.). I'm glad this ended up being a long conversation. It's good to know I'm not the only one who considers the Beta process sort of sacred.

luv lit
03-03-2010, 05:33 PM
I just read the post on going to a sub-forum, where do I find that, I'm still trying to find my way around AW. I am not afraid for someone not liking what I write, in fact, I welcome it. Thats what happened with the last book, if more people would have been honest, like friends and family who read the original MS it wouldn't have ended up in the hands of PA. I don't want everyone to tell me its wonderful, because they don't want to hurt my feelings. I want to have a MS thats as close to perfect as I can get. Why try to submit something that will end up being set aside. I am trying to gain my respect back, I have bought ELEMENTS OF STYLE, and numerous lit books, I am willing to put in the work, learn, and listen. I have been pushed back because of my bad choices, but I have to move forward to reach my goal of being a respected author.

profen4
03-03-2010, 08:13 PM
Luv lit - First, go to your profile and give us some information about yourself. next, go to the SYW forum and give some feedback to some of the posters there. Then, post a couple pages, of your work on SYW.

Best of luck,

luv lit
03-03-2010, 08:50 PM
swhibs123- Thanks, I will try to get that figured out. Look for me, I get lost here in all the forums. I will try to find my profile page right now. What is SYW?

Snowstorm
03-03-2010, 09:05 PM
You can update your information in the "User CP" button in the top horizontal bar, on the left. SYW is Share Your Work. You can post your queries, synopses, novel portions for critique. An easy way to jump around is at the bottom of this page is a "Forum Jump" bar. Click on the little arrows and you can see all the subforums--and how big this place is!

/derail

luv lit
03-03-2010, 10:11 PM
OK, I finally got my profile done, it took some time, but now you will know what I am about. I will have to check out SYW site, if it requires taking a document from the CP and putting it on SYW I'm not that advanced in doing that type of procedure. Now, if I only have to type it in, that I can do, but I will have to wait till later, my doggy job is calling and someone is requiring assistance and they don't understand the words "be there in a minute".

Cyia
03-04-2010, 02:01 AM
luv lit,

Share Your Work is on this site. You click on it from the main board and it will ask you for a pass word, you type in "vista", and it'll let you into SYW.

Once you're there, pick the genre where your book fits, say "contemporary" for example. You click on that and then click the blue button to start a new topic. All you have to do is copy your chapter from your book, then paste it in and you're good to go.

Doug Johnson
03-04-2010, 02:50 AM
It's good to know I'm not the only one who considers the Beta process sort of sacred.

More like a date. It could end up being something sacred, but more often than not it ends up with one or both parties disappointed.


Doug you may get more attention if you post your own thread in the Betas sub forum.


I know, but I don't want a lot of attention. I'm picky. If one of you people who've had your heart broken in the past, want to take another shot, hoping that this one will be different, send me a PM. If not that's OK. The right one is worth waiting for.

kborsden
03-04-2010, 03:51 AM
All my life I've been told I have anger issues. I resolved this by being more apreciative of other people's needs, and being curtious and helpful fits in very nicely:

-- I once let a guy go ahead of me in the supermarket who didn't say thank you, he just strolled straight past, put his crap on the belt, paid and left, didn't even look back in a curtisory manner - after paying for my goods and leaving the shop, I saw him getting into his car, approached him and punched him in the face.

-- I picked up a wallet that a bloke had dropped and handed it to him. He didn't even smile in a friendly manner, just snatched it away. He was later nursing a sore nose.

I'm an easy going, helpful kind of guy, got time for anyone, anywhere and always willing to help, but if I hold a door open for you, you better thank me - I'm not doing it for my health. Ungrateful beta readers? I'd go round their houses...