Hyphen question...

kaitie

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I hates hyphens. :D Anyway, I've got a pretty good hold on when to use them, but I just came across something I'm uncertain on. Is "off limits" hyphenated? I'm looking at it now and thinking it is, though I'm not sure why. Anyone care to explain?
 

Chase

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Off-putting hypens

I gave up hyphens for lent, but Merriam-Webster's 11th Collegiate Dictionary only shows off-limits with a hyphen.
 

kaitie

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Thanks. :)

Ps....anyone know the why? If I can figure out the rule I can usually apply it in other cases as well.
 
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Chase

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Katie, I use AP Stylebook to sort out gnarly hyphenate-or-don't situations. Wisegeek’s typical rules in the URL below are neither better nor worse than many others, but I like the disclaimer.

http://www.wisegeek.com/when-do-you-hyphenate-compound-words.htm

Wisegeek’s disclaimer:

"Hyphens are a notoriously tricky punctuation mark. English is a fairly inconsistent language and the student is not helped by the constant trend of evolution of the rules. To ensure absolute correctness when using hyphens, keep a good dictionary nearby, for knowing when to hyphenate compound words is not a definite science."

The last line (bold added) it all. When I'm in doubt, I check with Webster. Chase
 
 

Maryn

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To me, the rule (which is indeed flexible and probably more like a guideline) for hyphenating off limits is probably the same as for any other compound adjective. If it appears before the noun, hyphenate. If it appears after the noun, the hyphen is not required unless it's needed for clarity. That last part is a judgment call.

The off-limits snacks tempted her. The snacks were off limits.
The sweater hand knit by Mrs. Smith itched. The hand-knit sweater itched.

I would, of course, bow to my publisher's house style sheet, if I had a publisher. If they want it as off^limits, that's what I'll give them.

Maryn, short of 1000 words for the day
 

Sleepyhead

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Thanks. :)

Ps....anyone know the why? If I can figure out the rule I can usually apply it in other cases as well.

Essentially, you hyphenate before the noun because you are taking two words and meshing them into one adjective. When two words are found after the noun, each usually functions as a different part of speech - often one word is part of the verb and the other is an adverb.

In "the berry-flavored jelly," "berry-flavored" is one concept that modifies "jelly." In "the jelly was berry flavored," "berry" is an adverb modifying "was flavored."

Off-limits might be an exception to the usual rule, though - even after the noun, it functions as one word, either an adverb or a predicate nominative, depending on which grammatical point one wants to argue.
 
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