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Jeanette
02-23-2010, 04:04 AM
My evil antagonist injects his victims with some nasty drug that jacks up their insides and kills them. He got it off the streets (in other words, he doesn't have access to hospital/pharmacy cabinets).

What drug could this be?

Thanks for your help...

alleycat
02-23-2010, 04:12 AM
If he just wants to kill them, and he's going to inject them, he doesn't need a street drug. He could use any number of household products. I believe even an injection with an air bubble in the needle would do it (the medical people here could say for sure about that).

Rowan
02-23-2010, 05:03 AM
Jacks up their insides how? I agree with Alleycat... he could use almost anything under the kitchen sink! ;)

Wayne K
02-23-2010, 05:17 AM
If you're looking for a street drug, Crystal Meth would do the trick. Cocaine would too, but it would be expensive.

Monkey
02-23-2010, 06:22 AM
I'm also thinking of under-the-sink type stuff.

Maybe something as simple as well-aged egg whites could work, putting the body into septic shock. Rubbing alcohol, maybe? What's a good, common, industrial-grade solvent?

Drugs are harder to get, more expensive, and easier to track than common household items. If he could do it with eggs or air or rubbing alcohol, why would he bother with Crystal Meth?

Wayne K
02-23-2010, 06:35 AM
The OP asked for a drug. I gave a drug. That's why.

Monkey
02-23-2010, 06:50 AM
I get that, Wayne K. My question was aimed at the OP, not at you.

Candescent
02-23-2010, 06:54 AM
Not entirely sure what jacks up their insides entails specifically. How ever very good or extremely poor opiates can both be fatal. Of course a large enough dose of any opiate would be.

Meth/speed/crystal meth/crank aka Methamphetamine as already mentioned is logical enough. It is most often smoked these days but can be used intravenously. Over doses most often result in massive heart failure, so in theory a concentrated dose would injected would fit your need.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine
http://images.google.co.za/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=methamphetamine&oq=methanp&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=FkKDS5HaLZj00gTElunGAg&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCYQsAQwAw

Just a few links in case you want visual images to write off or further information.

JulieHowe
02-23-2010, 07:07 AM
Drano has been used in any number of horrific true crimes, although I'm not sure about injecting it. Victim: The Other Side of Murder graphically details what happens to someone after they're forced to swallow Drano. Be forewarned, the book (a true story) is highly disturbing. The damage to the inside of the body is grotesque and substantial, and may give you the plot twist you're looking for.


If you want to see a visual rendition of what happens to someone after they're forced to drink Drano, rent the horror movie Mother's Day.

(I'm not some sick f--k, really. It was all my mother's fault. She took me to see Mother's Day when I was ten years old.)

debirlfan
02-23-2010, 08:36 AM
Not sure what you mean by "jacking up their insides" - but if you want to inject someone with a drug that will kill them - how about insulin? You'd have to ask someone with more medical knowledge than I have about what dose would be required, but it would be fairly easy to OD someone with it.

Insulin can be bought over the counter without a prescription (at least in my state) - which would make it easy to get. (Can't buy a large bottle of saline solution without a prescription - but can buy insulin - I'm not even going to try to figure that one out!)

DrZoidberg
02-23-2010, 01:20 PM
If you want to go with a drug that kills, stick to heroin. That's more dangerous to non-addicts. I'm not sure about "jacking up their insides". They'll quietly suffocate as the muscles of their lungs relax too much. But otherwise I agree with everybody here. Why bother with the drugs? It's expensive and complicated.

Wayne, Candescent, I do believe that overdosing on amphetamine is close to impossible. Ie Chrystal meth. Fatalities have so far always been about prior extreme health problems and/or unfortunate medication combination. It is also extremely rare.

Cocaine is another bad choice if you want to kill somebody. Overdosing tends to come as a result of the addict lifestyle. You basically need to already have a heart problem before you overdose on the cocaine. There is no reason to believe that a healthy person injected by large doses of cocaine would die from it.

edit: BTW, when it comes to drugs, never trust newspapers. They habitually just make stuff up. They'll tell any lies if it'll sell papers. They also are rarely called on it, because nobody famous wants to come across as pro-drugs. I don't want to go into to much details about my life, but I am in a position to know.

My experience, the best research page for finding information about drugs is.
http://www.erowid.org/
Wikipedia is good to. Finding just the pure facts without a moralistic slant is close to impossible unless one goes out of one way to do so. This is true no matter if one is pro-legalisation or against. Both are just as bad.

stitchingirl
02-23-2010, 04:21 PM
Air injected into somebody would act as a blood clot that's called an air embolism.

Jeanette
02-23-2010, 07:11 PM
Wow. This is all... wow. I'm open to drugs or household items. I remember hearing stuff about Drano, and I'll read that true story. Household items would be easier to acquire. The antagonist has already given his victims ketamine -- to get them to relax... Don't really remember my intent for jacking up the insides -- that's what I get for outlining and not putting every single thought down. All this is good, y'all. Thanks!

StephanieFox
02-23-2010, 08:46 PM
Just curious, but what do you mean by 'jack up?"

abctriplets
02-23-2010, 08:54 PM
I interpreted it to be like the guy in the movie "Crank"...

Siddow
02-23-2010, 08:57 PM
How about that stuff used to clean concrete? Muriatic acid.

That's gotta jack up some insides, but I don't know, and google isn't helping. I would think pretty much any caustic acid, combined with a long hypodermic needle, would make some innard soup.

Jeanette
02-23-2010, 09:17 PM
Just curious, but what do you mean by 'jack up?"

"Jack up" means 'to destroy' in urban slang. Example: Eating Taco Bell at midnight totally jacks up my stomach.

alleycat
02-23-2010, 09:30 PM
Wow. This is all... wow. I'm open to drugs or household items. I remember hearing stuff about Drano, and I'll read that true story. Household items would be easier to acquire. The antagonist has already given his victims ketamine -- to get them to relax... Don't really remember my intent for jacking up the insides -- that's what I get for outlining and not putting every single thought down. All this is good, y'all. Thanks!
Liquid fertilizer contains potassium chloride, the same stuff they use to execute someone by lethal injection (along with a couple of other chemicals). Drain cleaner would also probably work. I know a number of clever botanical poisons, but you don't really need that (that's more for use in a murder mystery story).

ChristineR
02-23-2010, 10:27 PM
Well, if this is some sort of sadistic serial killer, he'd probably experiment with different unpleasant substances to see which was the most fun. If he just wants to kill somebody and get away with it, he might look for something hard to trace (air), or something that might not look like murder (insulin).

Serial killers usually have some sort of attitude towards their victims that often comes across in their actions. For example, if he thinks of people as raw material in his grand science project, he'd do things differently than if he thinks his victims deserve to suffer.

JulieHowe
02-24-2010, 12:14 AM
Just curious, but what do you mean by 'jack up?"

Where I'm from, the phrase was stolen from 'carjacking.' As in 'Give me those keys or I'm gonna jack you up!'

kuwisdelu
02-24-2010, 12:38 AM
The antagonist has already given his victims ketamine -- to get them to relax...

Err.. ketamine isn't necessarily going to get anyone to relax.

How do you need his victims to relax?

Ketamine can surely make it so they have no fucking clue what the hell is going on. But as far as "relax," you want a sedative like injecting them with demerol or something like that, not a dissociative anesthetic.

Ketamine can definitely work to get control of his victims, but make sure you know how it works, because "relax" is not how I'd describe its effects. I can answer how it does work here if you need.

Jeanette
02-24-2010, 01:06 AM
Err.. ketamine isn't necessarily going to get anyone to relax.

How do you need his victims to relax?

Ketamine can surely make it so they have no fucking clue what the hell is going on. But as far as "relax," you want a sedative like injecting them with demerol or something like that, not a dissociative anesthetic.

Ketamine can definitely work to get control of his victims, but make sure you know how it works, because "relax" is not how I'd describe its effects. I can answer how it does work here if you need.

Yes, please share your insights!:)

Tsu Dho Nimh
02-24-2010, 01:14 AM
My evil antagonist injects his victims with some nasty drug that jacks up their insides and kills them.

How nasty a death do you want, and how fast.

Let me know what your plot requires and I can give you legal, household, garden, or other compounds.

kuwisdelu
02-24-2010, 01:38 AM
Yes, please share your insights!:)

Well first it would help to know quite exactly it is you want your character to be doing to his victims. What kind of reaction does he want from them?

Ketamine is kind of like a numb, cocaine-fueled, slide-show dream where you're watching your actions viewed through the blurred lens of a stop-motion camera.

JulieHowe
02-24-2010, 07:57 AM
My evil antagonist injects his victims with some nasty drug that jacks up their insides and kills them. He got it off the streets (in other words, he doesn't have access to hospital/pharmacy cabinets).

What drug could this be?

Thanks for your help...

Here's a story ripped straight from the headlines - suicide by detergent. A suicidal woman used laundry detergent to kill herself inside a locked car.

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-body-in-car-castaic,0,749896.story?track=rss

Wayne K
02-24-2010, 08:10 AM
Wayne, Candescent, I do believe that overdosing on amphetamine is close to impossible. Ie Chrystal meth. Fatalities have so far always been about prior extreme health problems and/or unfortunate medication combination. It is also extremely rare. .
You believe wrong dude. Coke and crystal cause heart attacks. I know two people who after long amounts of time away from them relapsed and died from it. My wife's brother is an ER attending, so I called him to make sure before I responded.

Y'know what he recommended? Nicotine.

dgrintalis
02-24-2010, 08:17 AM
What about a speedball? It's a heroin/cocaine mix delivered intravenously.

RobinGBrown
02-24-2010, 11:41 AM
Cank: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0479884/

'The Beijing Cocktail' AKA 'that Chinese shit'

DrZoidberg
02-24-2010, 12:58 PM
You believe wrong dude. Coke and crystal cause heart attacks. I know two people who after long amounts of time away from them relapsed and died from it. My wife's brother is an ER attending, so I called him to make sure before I responded.

Y'know what he recommended? Nicotine.

This basically it gets down to semantics. Addicts tend to live very unhealthy lifestyles, (facilitated by the drug) which causes immense health problems on the long term. The ones who die are on the most extreme end of the spectrum (of course). On top of that long term amphetamine and coke use puts a massive strain on the heart. From this drawing the conclusion that amphetamine can kill you randomly whenever is misrepresenting the statistics.

But this is not how the drug is used in the OP. It's used as a drug to kill people. Healthy people injected with high doses of amphetamine or coke dying is rare. More common with coke than amphetamine, but still rare.

I don't have time to trawl the published articles on this, so I won't fight you on this. But I think your doctor friend is correct, even though it won't help the murderer in the OP.

edit: People like bodybuilders with no prior history of drug use can keel over from amphetamine. But this is because their hearts are already under massive strain from their bodybuilding. It all adds up. It's still rare for them to die from it.

Speed is also very bad to mix with Viagra, which is very common to do.

DrZoidberg
02-24-2010, 01:03 PM
What about a speedball? It's a heroin/cocaine mix delivered intravenously.

But it's only the heroin in the speedball that kills. The problem with recreational use of speedball, is that users become unaware of their physical responses to the heroin. A feeling of invincibility and exaggerated belief in ones abilities is common following cocaine use. So they are more likely to take more and more until they die.

Used as a poison, it's not the coke in the speedball that kills. It's only the heroin. So you might as well just drop the coke.

DrZoidberg
02-24-2010, 02:12 PM
I got this as a +rep:

"So you don't consider hard drugs to be dangerous or harmful to a healthy person? Just curious."

Thank you very much for the +rep. But I thought I'd answer here since I don't want to come across as something I'm not.

I think drugs are harmful. I even think drugs are dangerous. I think the blight of addiction is horrendous. I've seen friends die from it. The reality is that drugs are often awful. So we don't need to make shit up. We don't need to demonize it. The reality is bad enough. What's wrong with only sticking to facts?

The truth is that drugs aren't always bad. Not always. Not even most of the time. Most of the time drugs are a harmless past time. This is why I think demonizing drugs back-fire. Because those at risk, are the ones who try the drugs. And it doesn't take long before they realize that 99% of all facts available on drugs are twisted statistics and rabid anti-drug propaganda. The fact that much of this is produced or endorsed by families of those who've lost those close to them, is heart wrenching. And makes it very hard to criticise them for doing this.

I think the result is that those not at risk, fear drugs more than what is reasonable. And those at risk have little or no respect for drugs, which makes them more at risk. All this could be solved simply by us focusing on facts rather than treating it like a test on ones normality. ie "if you don't hate drugs and speak against it uncritically you're evil", sort of situation. I don't think it has any merit.

Because of dead friends I'm active in two organisations which supports drug addicts in Sweden. We push the "harm reduction" agenda. If you want to know my thoughts on this, just look it up.

Drugs are bad 'mkay

edit: oh, and the reason for this rant. This is supposed to be a sub-forum where we present the facts, and only the facts.

Elizabeth Holloway
02-24-2010, 03:34 PM
I just wanted to add that it takes a very large air bubble delivered IV to act as an embolus. If you wanted to use an air embolus as your MO, I would have your killer inject a 10cc syringe worth of air, not just a little bubble. Tiny bubbles get absorbed before they become harmful. (This coming from a nurse who has watched countless bubbles administered IV with absolutely no effect)