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View Full Version : Who are the trendsetters?



gilesth
02-08-2010, 06:31 PM
I submit that they are the Nerds! My biggest example of that is the current popularity of Manga, as well as how huge Harry Potter got, and the Lord of the Rings movies, The Last Airbender, and WoW. Not to mention all of the superhero movies out there. I take a deeper look at the subject in my blog (link in the sig), but I'd really like to hear your thoughts on this subject.

Jamesaritchie
02-08-2010, 07:00 PM
I understand the Manga, but how does Harry Potter and LOTR mean nerds? Or even superhero movies, for that matter? I know an awful lot of people who love these books and movies, including myself, and none of them are the nerdish type. Not even close.

gilesth
02-08-2010, 07:35 PM
I understand the Manga, but how does Harry Potter and LOTR mean nerds? Or even superhero movies, for that matter? I know an awful lot of people who love these books and movies, including myself, and none of them are the nerdish type. Not even close.

I definitely agree that the books and movies aren't necessarily restricted to nerds, but the nerds are the people who put together the cons, and they import international versions of comics, books, and movies, and they get a hold of these various pieces of entertainment often times before the "mainstream" fans even hear about them. That's my basic point. Nerds set the trends that non-nerds tend to follow. Especially when it comes to Sci-fi and Fantasy.

gothicangel
02-08-2010, 07:50 PM
God, I haven't heard the 'N' word in fifteen years.

Hasn't the world grown up yet?

If people with lots of money want to put together a convention, good for them. It's brilliant for book sales.

I'm no Nerd, but I am intelligent and passionate, and yep I tend to be on the bandwagon before the bandwagon even starts rolling! :D

gilesth
02-08-2010, 07:53 PM
God, I haven't heard the 'N' word in fifteen years.

Hasn't the world grown up yet?

If people with lots of money want to put together a convention, good for them. It's brilliant for book sales.

I'm no Nerd, but I am intelligent and passionate, and yep I tend to be on the bandwagon before the bandwagon even starts rolling! :D

I don't generally use the "N" word, but I discovered Nerdcore Hip Hop a few weeks ago through a documentary on Netflix, and the word's been floating around in my head for a while. :D I also wouldn't say that it's a bad thing to be a nerd, I DO think it's a bad thing to pigeon-hole one's self into a specific "culture" the way many high schoolers do. In this particular instance, I'm simply trying to bring a tight focus on the subject I'm talking about.

kuwisdelu
02-08-2010, 07:57 PM
God, I haven't heard the 'N' word in fifteen years.

Hasn't the world grown up yet?

If people with lots of money want to put together a convention, good for them. It's brilliant for book sales.

I'm no Nerd, but I am intelligent and passionate, and yep I tend to be on the bandwagon before the bandwagon even starts rolling! :D

What's wrong with being a nerd?

gothicangel
02-08-2010, 08:42 PM
What's wrong with being a nerd?

Nothing, as long as we aren't straying into stereotypes here. :D

Libbie
02-08-2010, 08:43 PM
Is manga really any more popular now than it was ten years ago?

Jamesaritchie
02-08-2010, 08:43 PM
I definitely agree that the books and movies aren't necessarily restricted to nerds, but the nerds are the people who put together the cons, and they import international versions of comics, books, and movies, and they get a hold of these various pieces of entertainment often times before the "mainstream" fans even hear about them. That's my basic point. Nerds set the trends that non-nerds tend to follow. Especially when it comes to Sci-fi and Fantasy.



I don't buy this at all. What, maybe one fan in ten thousand goes to such cons, or pays any attention to them at all? Nerds are the ones who do all this stuff after other people make them popular. Which came first, Star Trek, or Star Trek conventions? Star Wars, or Star Wars conventions?

Nerds, or whatever you want to call them, are a fringe element, and a rather small element at that, at least on a percentage basis.

gothicangel
02-08-2010, 08:52 PM
Is manga really any more popular now than it was ten years ago?

As a bookseller, no.

The core market for manga readers are 30-40 year old men, in professional careers; and University students [most universities have manga/anime societies.]

Libbie
02-08-2010, 08:55 PM
That's what I thought, gothicangel. When I was working as a book seller, we didn't sell a terrible lot of manga.

willietheshakes
02-08-2010, 09:06 PM
As a bookseller, no.


And from another bookseller - yes. Manga is, in my experience, MUCH more mainstream now than it was a decade ago. Back then, we had a few titles in the store. Today, we have two full units, with great turn rates.

BenPanced
02-08-2010, 09:25 PM
Prevalent? Yeah. Popular? Not sure.

gothicangel
02-08-2010, 10:12 PM
I think shows like Pokemon and Yugi-oh made the genre more mainstream.

But the best manga/anime aren't mainstream. You'll not find them in the likes of Waterstones; but in independents [there is a brilliant one in Newcastle called Travelling Man.]

gilesth
02-09-2010, 12:06 AM
I don't buy this at all. What, maybe one fan in ten thousand goes to such cons, or pays any attention to them at all? Nerds are the ones who do all this stuff after other people make them popular. Which came first, Star Trek, or Star Trek conventions? Star Wars, or Star Wars conventions?

Nerds, or whatever you want to call them, are a fringe element, and a rather small element at that, at least on a percentage basis.

The point about Alpha Consumers is that, even though they are a minority, to advertisers, one of them is worth a thousand "regular" consumers. And, yes, Star Trek came before the cons, but without the cons, fan-fics, millions in sales of the books, and loyalty of those fringe consumers, TNG may not have been created because the fanatics proved that there was still a fan base to appeal to. And nerds are not ALWAYS followers...in fact, what makes many of them considered nerds is that they reject what mainstream culture tells them is cool.

And on a related note, since you don't seem to agree (which is absolutely fine and why I started the thread), who do you see as a major trendsetter in the genre world? :)

gilesth
02-09-2010, 12:10 AM
Is manga really any more popular now than it was ten years ago?

It's definitely popular enough that you can find a large section of it in many bookstores...even though that depends on the region. For a while, the bookstore I worked for had more Manga on the shelves than even the Mystery books, surpassed only by Romance (and that only barely).

I think I mentioned it in my blog about this topic, but in many situations the Nerds as alpha consumers notion isn't true, but in Sci-Fi and Fantasy, it often is...but again, not always.

BenPanced
02-09-2010, 12:20 AM
who do you see as a major trendsetter in the genre world?
Depends on the genre and depends on who's spending the most money.

gilesth
02-09-2010, 12:25 AM
Depends on the genre and depends on who's spending the most money.

Well, let's narrow in a little. Your favorite style of book. Who typically sets the trend there? I don't know what you like, but I definitely like to be aware of who's reading what and why they're reading it. To a degree, this is my way of educating myself about the markets.

gothicangel
02-09-2010, 12:25 AM
And on a related note, since you don't seem to agree (which is absolutely fine and why I started the thread), who do you see as a major trendsetter in the genre world? :)

Publishers. :D

gilesth
02-09-2010, 12:26 AM
Nothing, as long as we aren't straying into stereotypes here. :D

I would consider myself a nerd, even though I don't really fit many of the stereotypes. ;)

BenPanced
02-09-2010, 12:46 AM
Well, let's narrow in a little. Your favorite style of book. Who typically sets the trend there? I don't know what you like, but I definitely like to be aware of who's reading what and why they're reading it. To a degree, this is my way of educating myself about the markets.

Publishers. :D
What gothicangel said. Demographic data can show age, gender, geographic location, and economic status. Once a publisher has that information, they're going to go after more of it. Trends indicate more women buy romances so publishers are going to market more romances to women. Trends indicate more college-educated men buy science fiction and fantasy so publishers are going to market sf/f to them. Publishers (and TV executives and movie executives, etc.) go after the solid numbers that can guarantee an easy return on their investment.

gilesth
02-09-2010, 01:12 AM
Publishers. :D

I would have to disagree with that. Only because publishing is such a low-profit industry that attempting to set a trend is a huge gamble. They definitely follow the data, but setting new trends is just too dangerous, especially with the e-book thing to consider when their looking at the bottom-line.

gothicangel
02-09-2010, 01:30 AM
The truth is, publishers aren't that interested in trends. If there is a trend that is selling now, they aren't going to be buying those type of books now. By the time they would be published, in 18 months the trend will be dead.

Publishers are only interested in well written books. It's that simple.

DVGuru
02-09-2010, 02:23 AM
I submit that they are the Nerds! My biggest example of that is the current popularity of Manga, as well as how huge Harry Potter got, and the Lord of the Rings movies, The Last Airbender, and WoW. Not to mention all of the superhero movies out there. I take a deeper look at the subject in my blog (link in the sig), but I'd really like to hear your thoughts on this subject.

First off. Calling people who like these kinds of stories nerds is insulting. Sure, there are people who take it to the extreme, but that's equally true of some sports fans I've encountered.

Second. As someone who likes Star Wars, LOTR, Harry Potter, and many other sci-fi/fantasy stories, comics, and video games--I believe nerds as you refer to them are called fanboys. And with the onslaught of women at the last San Diego Comc-Con craving anything related to Twilight, we now have a growing numbers of fangirls.

willietheshakes
02-09-2010, 02:24 AM
First off. Calling people who like these kinds of stories nerds is insulting. Sure, there are people who take it to the extreme, but that's equally true of some sports fans I've encountered.

Second. As someone who like Star Wars, LOTR, Harry Potter, and many other sci-fi/fantasy stories, comics, and video games--I believe nerds as you refer to them are called fanboys. And with the onslaught of women at the last San Diego Comc-Con craving anything related to Twilight, we now have a growing numbers of fangirls.

Yes. Because "fanboy" and "fangirl" are FAR less insulting than "nerd".

veinglory
02-09-2010, 02:31 AM
I have to say I still don't get it. Some things that were considered nerdy are now considered popular. But Harry Potter was never nerdy. LoTR the movies were never nerdy, the books still are. A lot of nerdy things will always be nerdy. A lot of mainstream things never were nerdy. Some previously mainstream things have become nerdy (cult TV, pony mods etc). I don't see a pattern really.

BenPanced
02-09-2010, 02:37 AM
Hell, you can declare yourself a nerd on just about anything. Seems to be interchangeable with "geek" these days.

gilesth
02-09-2010, 02:54 AM
I guess a great point that I'm learning through this discussion is the fact that no one can really be categorized :)

gilesth
02-09-2010, 02:56 AM
First off. Calling people who like these kinds of stories nerds is insulting. Sure, there are people who take it to the extreme, but that's equally true of some sports fans I've encountered.

Second. As someone who likes Star Wars, LOTR, Harry Potter, and many other sci-fi/fantasy stories, comics, and video games--I believe nerds as you refer to them are called fanboys. And with the onslaught of women at the last San Diego Comc-Con craving anything related to Twilight, we now have a growing numbers of fangirls.

Many people who consider themselves nerds don't find the term insulting. And just because someone likes Star Wars, etc. it doesn't make them a "nerd". Fanboy and Fangirl are also accurate terms, but they don't tend to run the world via the invention of technology that improves our lives. :D

DVGuru
02-09-2010, 03:02 AM
Yes. Because "fanboy" and "fangirl" are FAR less insulting than "nerd".

I don't find them insulting at all.

willietheshakes
02-09-2010, 03:13 AM
I don't find them insulting at all.

I'm guessing you self-identify as a fanboy/girl, then?
Much as self-identified nerds don't find that term insulting.
Ditto geeks.

And assholes. Self-identified assholes have no issue with being referred to as such. You can trust me on this one.

DVGuru
02-09-2010, 03:21 AM
I'm guessing you self-identify as a fanboy/girl, then?
Much as self-identified nerds don't find that term insulting.
Ditto geeks.

And assholes. Self-identified assholes have no issue with being referred to as such. You can trust me on this one.

I agree. Call a fanboy a nerd and you get yelled at. Call an asshole a nerd and you get punched in the face.

willietheshakes
02-09-2010, 03:26 AM
I agree. Call a fanboy a nerd and you get yelled at. Call an asshole a nerd and you get punched in the face.

Something to bear in mind. ;)

geardrops
02-09-2010, 03:31 AM
Speaking as a Nerd/Geek (and proud :) )...

Geek has been chic for some time now. Growing in popularity since I was in high school. At least, in my sphere. Perhaps this is because I have lived on the internet for as long as I have, and have been a nerd for as long as I have, and I live in California. But the crap I did 15 years ago was lame then, and is now pretty cool.

I went to my first 'con when I was 16. Back then, it was something only mega-losers did. But now? Hell. Look at San Diego Comic Con. Try and get a pass. See how fast that shit flies off the shelves. First time I went, I walked up on a Saturday bought a pass.

I'm with the guys who say geeks are currently the trend setters. It won't last forever, but it's cool for now.

bethany
02-09-2010, 03:42 AM
Yeah, I was getting ready to say that I think the term you're looking for is geek (I'm a geek). Geeks like Star Trek and fantasy/sci-fi, are easily identifiable in our I heart geeks (mine has a picture of Milhouse) t-shirts.

I am very fond of nerds, but they mostly like math and stuff. and have pocket protectors. Which IS sort of sexy, but not as sexy as being able to quote LOTR. Also, there are dweebs. They'll be coming into their own in a few years.

Some geeks branch off and are goth/emo. But these are mostly still in high school and haven't learned about moderation.

gilesth
02-09-2010, 03:58 AM
Yeah, I was getting ready to say that I think the term you're looking for is geek (I'm a geek). Geeks like Star Trek and fantasy/sci-fi, are easily identifiable in our I heart geeks (mine has a picture of Milhouse) t-shirts.

I am very fond of nerds, but they mostly like math and stuff. and have pocket protectors. Which IS sort of sexy, but not as sexy as being able to quote LOTR. Also, there are dweebs. They'll be coming into their own in a few years.

Some geeks branch off and are goth/emo. But these are mostly still in high school and haven't learned about moderation.

I think geek, nerd, dweeb, fanboy, and many other terms can be interchangeable at this point in our culture...but that's going to depend on who you know who identifies with the terms.

the_Unknown
02-09-2010, 05:38 AM
Jocks and pretty people are still popular. And so is stupidity.

Where are you guys living at where nerds are popular?

geardrops
02-09-2010, 05:44 AM
Jocks and pretty people are still popular. And so is stupidity.

Where are you guy living at where nerds are popular?

Not in high school?

gilesth
02-09-2010, 06:48 AM
Jocks and pretty people are still popular. And so is stupidity.

Where are you guys living at where nerds are popular?

1 - I never said nerds are popular. 2 - What does stupidity have to do with it?That sounds like flaming to me. 3 - Jocks and pretty people set plenty of trends in non-fiction markets, and even in some fiction markets.

Wordwrestler
02-11-2010, 11:38 AM
That's what I thought, gothicangel. When I was working as a book seller, we didn't sell a terrible lot of manga.

About one quarter of the "teen" section at my library is manga, and that's just the books, not the DVD's that are manga-based. When I look up library materials online, searching by subject, sometimes the first several pages of results are manga. There's a teen manga club that was meeting there for a while, too. Not sure if that's still going on.

kaitie
02-11-2010, 12:56 PM
And from another bookseller - yes. Manga is, in my experience, MUCH more mainstream now than it was a decade ago. Back then, we had a few titles in the store. Today, we have two full units, with great turn rates.

Agreeing with this one. Might be a country thing, though. In the US, though, it's even much more prevalent than it was even five years ago. And goodness, guys. You've never been to a bookstore in Japan. They have sections the size of entire bookstores in America dedicated solely to manga, most of it wrapped up in plastic so you can't even open it up to flip through. It's crazy. In my experience, most of the people in America reading it were high school kids.

I kinda hope the nerds determine the trends because I write for nerds. :D Well, I write pretty mainstream stuff, but it has a lot of in-jokes intended for all the nerds out there, of which I am one.

I also self-identify as a dork, and also as a sometimes bitch, but you can't call me that one. ;)