Alcohol and writing.

"Just a few drinks" is not alcoholism. I have no idea where you live, but I suspect the majority of AWers live in America, where folks seem a lot more jumpy about this sort of thing, living in an AA culture. Get pissed a few times and they recommend you come along to their local chapter.

And yes, I'm Scottish. A Scot, saying there's nothing wrong with a few drinks, huh?

Alcoholism is not attractive; neither is drunkenness. But if I, a grown woman, want to have a few drinks or feel like it loosens my synapses and make me write 'free' then I refuse to apologise for that.

Alcohol is not a demon, for God's sake. Alcoholism might be, but loosen up. I've had drunks, alkies and jaikies in my family too but that doesn't do anything to detract from my enjoyment of a perfectly legal substance.

I've written drunk before (two glasses of vodka, such a lightweight) and came up with 1,700 words in an evening. And you know what? They were good.

But sober I've written 11,000 words in one day before. If I kept drinking I'd fall asleep.

I stopped drinking several years ago, because I am an alcoholic. Which has nothing to do with being a writer. I never could write a word when I was drunk or even lightly buzzed. Though I did excel at waking up with new tattoos.

All that aside, if others can control their drinking and a highball or two helps to liberate the muse, good on them. I don't really see how an alcoholic writer is somehow worse than an alcoholic accountant.

I think writers being alcoholics is just another stereotype. Sure, there may be writers who are alcoholics and sure there are writers who enjoy a few drinks but to insinuate it's a writer's lifestyle is way offbase. Fight it like you would any other stereotype.

Who seriously advocates it? Seriously? People joke about it, people propogate the stereotype, but does society as a whole REALLY believe we're a bunch of alcoholics?

Although I agree that perpetuating the idea of the self-destructive writer is no good, I don't know that any writer who admits to having a drink, or even writing under the influence, is helping to create that myth. Honestly, I think showing that normal, healthy alcohol consumption can co-exist with being a productive writer and balanced person is a good thing.

I'll have a few drinks when I write, sometimes. And I'll get high sometimes, too. But, weirdly, my writing is not any different from when I'm sober. Problem is, it's hard to read when written longhand.

Anyways, I don't think anyone here is actively promoting drinking while writing; at least, I've never seen it. This correlation probably comes from the reputations of Hemingway, Joyce, Faulkner, etc. as being heavy drinkers/alcoholics. "Hey, they drank a shitload and wrote some great stuff, so why can't I?" This logic, of course, is ridiculous. My point is, I don't think anyone is actively promoting this writing/drinking correlation; it comes from a person's internal interpretation of the past. Some people make that connection between sentences and shots. And others see it for what it is: bullshit.

Mind if I have some popcorn with my beer?

The Lonely One said:

Society, no. What I mean is, (some)writers advocate it. Perhaps not very often on AW but I've heard peers and even professors speak of drinking as an aid to writing in the company of students. Is it just me or does this not seem irresponsible? I've heard it enough, from enough people deeming themselves serious writers speaking to other writers, that I feel it's not just something I've imagined (though I do sometimes imagine things).

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It's definitely irresponsible for professors to be doing that, for anybody to be doing that. And I really hope that there are not people around here actively promoting this false dichotomy. But more than that, I hope people are smart enough to know that they need to make their own decisions and that they shouldn't always ask "how high?" when someone tells them to jump.

Part of this notion might extend to the general connection between drugs and creativity.

The Lonely One said:

Society, no. What I mean is, (some)writers advocate it. Perhaps not very often on AW but I've heard peers and even professors speak of drinking as an aid to writing in the company of students. Is it just me or does this not seem irresponsible? I've heard it enough, from enough people deeming themselves serious writers speaking to other writers, that I feel it's not just something I've imagined (though I do sometimes imagine things).

I'm not the anti-drinking campaign here, as much as it may seem that way. I just feel that writing is hard, and writing is a passion, and it's work.

Honestly, every time I hear a writer talk about how drinking can help the writing process, I'm surprised. Carpenters don't need a few drinks to work their trade. Mechanics don't swig a shot before they pop open your hood. They do the hard work, and if they showed up to work drunk, they'd be fired.

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I see your point, because I too have dealt with alcoholics in my family. But for some, responsible consumption helps to get the creative juices flowing. Key word being responsible. For some, though, alcohol and other substances can be a crutch. When you can't do the work writing entails because you need to get high, when you need to get shit-faced just to write a few words or be creative... or when it affects your daily life, yeah. Problem.

When it becomes a crutch is when it becomes an issue, imho. Like it was for Stephen King.

I don't drink very much/at all. Not a huge fan of how most alcohol tastes in the first place, and when I get drunk I actually feel slightly dumber. I haven't tried writing in that state - I doubt it, but who knows, maybe I would write better. People function differently.

However, you do say something that I think is interesting.

To quote, "I personally think we as intelligent writers need to realize that either we love to write enough to do it sober, or we don't fucking love it as much as we thought we did."

I don't love writing. To be perfectly honest, I'm not even sure if I like it. To me, it's okay. When it's going really well, I usually don't stop to think about it - which means I'm not really enjoying myself or having fun, I'm just into it/concentrated on it.

All writing is to me, is a means to an end.

So if I felt I could do things with alcohol that I couldn't without, writing wise, I'm not sure I'd pass that up. I do have a certain measure of pride, granted, and it would be difficult for me to rely on a substance to do what I feel I CAN do perfectly well sober. But that's not a completely solid barrier.

Another thing to consider - Hemingway wrote depressing stuff, which, in turn, is reflective of his worldview. Maybe drinking was kind of his way of coping (not saying it's an ideal or even a good way) with what he was writing/thinking/feeling. I view myself as somewhat of a tragedian, and though I may not drink TO write, I could see myself drinking as a way of taking my mind off the futility of existence, my increasing conviction that we lack free will, etc or any number of ideas/themes that make their way into my stories. I guess what I'm saying is, instead of alcohol being a catalyst for writing, alcohol might be a RESPONSE to writing, or even a RESPONSE to simply being the kind of person who could write what you write.

Society, no. What I mean is, (some)writers advocate it. Perhaps not very often on AW but I've heard peers and even professors speak of drinking as an aid to writing in the company of students. Is it just me or does this not seem irresponsible? I've heard it enough, from enough people deeming themselves serious writers speaking to other writers, that I feel it's not just something I've imagined (though I do sometimes imagine things).

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Now, are the professors speaking of their own vices to college students? Or are they encouraging them to go out and drink to find their muse? There's a huge distinction here, mainly because (and forgive me for stereotyping here too, but) most college students do drink. Heavily. On their own, with no help, aid, or suggestion by professors. If I personally had heard this in a classroom in college, depending on the context, I would have either said to myself:

a) What a cool ass teacher.
b) What a drunk ass dip shit.
c) Mmmm.... wine. *drool*

It would have depended on the context.

Now, I'm not an alcoholic by any means (or even by stretch of the imagination). And I don't have an addictive personality so I really don't see myself ever succumbing to a vice like that. But I do love the occasional drink (or several). In college, I did drink. I had friends who did NOT drink. And truthfully, I really don't think the friends who drank would have been influenced by ANYONE else who drank, regardless of their stature. They wouldn't wake up one day and say "Hey, my teacher does it, that must mean it's okay!"

At that stage in life, most students are figuring out who they are completely on their own, and are old enough to make their own decisions.

Now if you're talking about a classroom full of freshmen in HIGH school, I would have a drastically different opinion (since that is an age that is much more impressionable). If that's the case, I retract my above statement LOL

I'm not the anti-drinking campaign here, as much as it may seem that way. I just feel that writing is hard, and writing is a passion, and it's work.

Honestly, every time I hear a writer talk about how drinking can help the writing process, I'm surprised. Carpenters don't need a few drinks to work their trade. Mechanics don't swig a shot before they pop open your hood. They do the hard work, and if they showed up to work drunk, they'd be fired.

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This is I think your biggest misconception, and the reason I'm responding to the post. And I'm NOT saying this to make you feel bad or put you down, I just wanted to jump in because of it

I don't see how drinking is mutually exclusive to writers. What about the big "Executive" stereotype? The man who has good scotch in his office and offers with or without ice to his major business partners. Then he wines and dines his clientele after office hours to close a big account. Is that different? Or, just another stereotype Or take lawyers: Have you ever seen a "lawyer" sitcom or drama on TV that didn't include the evening romp to the bar to either celebrate or commiserate over a ruling? To use your mechanic/carpenter reference specifically, how many times do you hear about the guys who sneak out back for a smoke? Is smoking not as bad as drinking? It's still addictive. And one could argue that one drink will not impair your mind, so is it really any different than relaxing with a cigarette?

I really do understand where your frustration is coming from, but I just thought I might try and bring in some added perspective. It's understandable that since you're appalled by certain stereotype you might certainly notice that said stereotype in real-life more often. That's just the nature of the beast, unfortunately. But on the positive side, I also believe that's your brain's way of saying "NO" so that you don't accidentally say "yes" to an addiction. It's a healthy repulsion

TLO, I am TOTALLY with you on this. I, too, think it's deplorable that our culture associates writing with drinking, and that so many people believe you must drink in order to be a "real" writer.

I don't drink at all. Nor do I use any other recreational drugs. Ever. My brain is too precious to me to screw it up, and writing is too precious to me to waste any time being useless and drunk/drugged.

But, like you, I come from a family of addicts, and I've seen what it can really do to creativity. It is no crutch and no benefit, let's put it that way.

Yeah, a lot of people point to Bukowski and other famous drunk artists, and say, "Look how great they were, thanks to their addictions!" I look at them and feel sad, and think, "How much greater could they have been if they hadn't fucked up their lives with addictions, and how much longer could they have lived and enjoyed creating beautiful art for the rest of us to enjoy?" Sad. Very, very sad.

Go you. There's at least one other writer out there who feels the same as you.

I'll never tell anybody else what to do. I'm a great believer in personal freedom. I'm fervently in support of legalizing all drugs, even though I don't use any of them and never will. People can make their own choices. But I strongly reject the idea that writers "need" assistance from substances in order to be creative or good or "cool." Fuck that very stupid idea.

M.R.J. Le Blanc said:

Who seriously advocates it? Seriously? People joke about it, people propogate the stereotype, but does society as a whole REALLY believe we're a bunch of alcoholics?

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Yes. More people than you might suspect seem to. When people find out I've written a novel and am trying very hard to get it published, they ask me if I want to go out drinking with them, or they make jokes about how much vodka I must have consumed to get that done. Or they make other comments assuming that I must be really into alcohol. When I laugh and then politely tell them I don't drink (ever, at all) they seem baffled. I must assume form the baffling that they were only kind of joking.

Here in Connecticut you can drive your kids around drunk, but don't you fucking dare smoke in the car with them. They'll drag you from your car and humilate you publicly.

The Lonely One said:

I don't think it's cool when writers talk about how drinking allows them to write, and how the association of alcoholism and writing is a natural one. I openly fight this idea, and would speak out against individuals who think it's "cool" to drink large amounts daily as a crutch to their creativity, or for any other reason, really. I mean, it's your body, do what you want. But I would openly argue against anyone giving the perspective to OTHER people that alcoholism is acceptable for ANY reason.

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I've noticed this as well; though I think it's less prevalent these days. There's sort of a tradition that writers are a bit of an alcoholic bunch, and it's a stereotype that fits right into the "drinking is cool" mind set, because for most non-writers "writing is cool" as well. I like a glass of wine occasionally myself, but I'm very wary of dependence on any substance whatsoever. I believe that, even in moderation, over time it stunts the mind.
I've only been a heavy drinker once in my life, when I was 17, and stopped in time. But I replaced drink with marijuana, and when I started topractice Yoga I found that smoking a joint before meditation worked wonders for that practice. And then one day I realised: no. I don't want that. I want those effects without a joint; I want it to be natural. And so I stopped the smoking. That was in 1973.

thewakingself said:

When it becomes a crutch is when it becomes an issue, imho. Like it was for Stephen King.

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I think it's better to make it an issue before it becomes a crutch. The more alcohol makes writing easier, the more a person is likely to turn to it to write, the more it is likely to become a problem. I believe in nipping things in the bud!

That said, we are all adults.

I've experimented with both, and all kinds of drugs. The result of my experiment is that I write just as well sober as drunk, and about the same amount. It's just more fun when I do it tipsy. It's not good for my overall shape though, so I've stopped doing that now. Since I write every day.

But the drugs did nothing for me. On amphetamine, I wrote a lot. All total unusable shit. On ecstasy, I couldn't keep my focus to write anything really. On weed I didn't care about writing at all. Same from pills. Watching some porn before writing a sex scene I can highly recommend. Not really a drug, but intoxicating in a way.

But I have no opinion on the morals of it. Whatever works works. If writing drunk works for you, do it. But writing is a highly in-duh-lectual endeavour which shouldn't lend itself to any kind of intoxication, I wouldn't think.

I know quite a few journalists. A lot of them are drunks. But it's not so much from the writing itself. It's more about all the parties. For a journalist, networking is everything. People network the most effectively at parties. Nobody trusts the sober guy at a party. So they drink a lot. There's quite a few writers who also are journalists. Hemingway was a journalist. So it goes.

I agree that it's wrong to say writers have to drink/take drugs to write, but I also think people should be free to discuss their experiences. Though they may talk up being an alcoholic, it'll be clear from the behaviour the reverse is true.

I've known a number of drug addicts and I can see from their behaviour it's rotted their brain. I'd never take drugs based on meeting them... but if I hadn't been allowed to see what it did to people, maybe I would have tried.