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sheadakota
01-18-2010, 04:40 PM
To join a branch of the military- any branch, but the army in particular- do they do a pysch eval to weeg out the crazies (yes politically incorrect I know) or do they let anyone in?

I always thought they needed an eval but was called on it and want to make sure- THANKS!

BudMan
01-18-2010, 06:05 PM
I was medically retired from the Army in 1999. At the time, I was a company 1st Sergeant, the senior non commissioned officer of a unit of 180 men.

During my career, I served a period (YUK!) as a recruiter while climbing the career path.

The military does not require a psych evaluation because if an enlistee reports that he has had mental health treatment, he is automatically disqualified.

Any med history of mental health treatment is disqualifying. A waiver may be granted but they are extremely rare. If is was a case of grief counseling after the death of a family member or close friend would be the only circimstance I (if I was a recruiter) would submit for a waiver.

The standards for enlistment are quite a bit higher than civilians would expect. I first entered the Army in 1965 as a car thief. Fortunately for me, the training stuck and I straightened out.

That would be impossible with today's standards. Any felony arrest, almost all misdemeanor arrests and even too many traffic tickets can be a bar to enlistment.

If you need more, drop a note to me.

veinglory
01-18-2010, 10:03 PM
At least in NZ the interview panel that accepts/rejects recruits includes an experienced clinical psychologist.

Mr Flibble
01-18-2010, 10:15 PM
The military does not require a psych evaluation because if an enlistee reports that he has had mental health treatment, he is automatically disqualified.

So undiagnosed / untreated people can get in?

Scary.

sheadakota
01-18-2010, 11:37 PM
Thats what I was thinking- and wondering- so an undiagonosed sociopath with no criminal history could get in?

BudMan
01-19-2010, 02:16 AM
Absolutely and they sometimes do.

But a true sopciopath often has manifested his problems before his/her 18th birthday.

The applicant fills out a medical history report and then is really interoggated about the truthfullness of his answers. nThe form is Standard Form 93. The actual examination by an MD at the Military Entry processing Station (MEPS) is record on Standard Form 88.

Here's a link to SF 93 so you can what the applicant fills out:

http://contacts.gsa.gov/webforms.nsf/0/A19AB7A5F7D64C9485256C2A0041215A/$file/sf93_e.pdf

And here's a link to SF 88 that the MD completes:

http://contacts.gsa.gov/webforms.nsf/0/D8089A5870F2E3F885256A8400770C3F/$file/sf88.PDF

They are in a PDF so you can print them to look at them.

The other forms the applicant fills out are the Department of Defense Forms 1966. They are started by the Recruiter and the applicant has to be observed while he completes them:

http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/infomgt/forms/eforms/dd1966.pdf

Hope it helps

BudMan
01-19-2010, 02:20 AM
At least in NZ the interview panel that accepts/rejects recruits includes an experienced clinical psychologist.


I really, REALLY tried to resist this response, but, oh, well, maybe I have sociopathic tendencies:

In the US, our Clinical Psychologists sometimes kill 12 and wound 32.

See? Proving once again that my wife is right, I am an idiot.

(but I frequently break myself up)

Shadow_Ferret
01-19-2010, 02:32 AM
The standards for enlistment are quite a bit higher than civilians would expect. I first entered the Army in 1965 as a car thief. Fortunately for me, the training stuck and I straightened out.

That would be impossible with today's standards. Any felony arrest, almost all misdemeanor arrests and even too many traffic tickets can be a bar to enlistment.



When I was in the military in the late 70s/early 80s, I knew many enlisteds who had joined to avoid a jail sentence.

sheadakota
01-19-2010, 02:44 AM
Absolutely and they sometimes do.

But a true sopciopath often has manifested his problems before his/her 18th birthday.

The applicant fills out a medical history report and then is really interoggated about the truthfullness of his answers. nThe form is Standard Form 93. The actual examination by an MD at the Military Entry processing Station (MEPS) is record on Standard Form 88.

Here's a link to SF 93 so you can what the applicant fills out:

http://contacts.gsa.gov/webforms.nsf/0/A19AB7A5F7D64C9485256C2A0041215A/$file/sf93_e.pdf

And here's a link to SF 88 that the MD completes:

http://contacts.gsa.gov/webforms.nsf/0/D8089A5870F2E3F885256A8400770C3F/$file/sf88.PDF

They are in a PDF so you can print them to look at them.

The other forms the applicant fills out are the Department of Defense Forms 1966. They are started by the Recruiter and the applicant has to be observed while he completes them:

http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/infomgt/forms/eforms/dd1966.pdf

Hope it helps
Budman (and everyone who answered) Thanks so much this is wonderful information even if it means I need to rework a few things in my one scene- It was just a one time comment- "she wondered how he ever made it through the pysch eval.." so not to bad-

thanks for all the footwork- I printed out the forms and am reading them now- many thanks!

Mr Flibble
01-19-2010, 02:58 AM
Wow I'd have made it through, and I'm nutty as a fruit cake

Really, you wouldn't want me around guns, not when I'm having one of my turns. I wasn't diagnosed till I was 40, doesn't mean I wasn't loopy then. In fact I was probably loopier, and they could have given me a gun! Or a tank!

I still find that quite scary.

Interesting though, thanks for the links Bud

Noah Body
01-19-2010, 05:41 PM
I was medically retired from the Army in 1999. At the time, I was a company 1st Sergeant, the senior non commissioned officer of a unit of 180 men.

Hooah, First Shirt... were you branched aviation? I ask because of your avatar, of course. :)

BudMan
01-19-2010, 06:51 PM
I was aviation first and later infantry (career progression)

I went in straight from high school in 1965, stayed in Vietnam for 32 months as a helicopter gunship crew chief/door gunner and then (after healing from multiple gsw) became a cop. I retired as a police chief of a small town in Illinois in 1987 and went back on active duty with the Army. Became a flight platoon sergeant of an assault company with Blackhawks, then rebranched Infantry, qualified as an Infantry platoon sergeant (at age 42! I learned it is possible to vomit more than once on a 10 k formation run) and then 1st Sgt. Broke several vertebrae in a training accident and was med retired in 1999.

Probably too much info, eh?

Here's a larger pic of the aircraft. It is supposed to be me hanging out the left door with the machinegun. The aircraft is mine but I was never quite that tall. <GRIN>

http://vrcc.photostash.com/vrcc_3154/Have-Guns-Will-Travel-copy-.gif

SarahMacManus
01-19-2010, 06:55 PM
There was no psychological exam when I enlisted in the Air Force (Gulf War era), I think they assume you're sane until proven otherwise.

If you develop or manifest a mental illness afterwards, however, they do treat you through their medical personnel. Several close friends of mine worked in mental health in the hospital.

And yes - the standards are higher now, even though we're at war. A kid I know who wanted in, a good kid, couldn't join because he had a GED instead of a high school diploma. You'd think they'd be less picky now, but they're not.

BudMan
01-19-2010, 07:14 PM
The US military can afford to be picky because there are actually plenty of volunteers. None of the services have any trouble filling their quotas. Some of that has to be realted to the economy, there are not a lot of jobs out there and the military has always been the employer of last resort.

There is also a certain amount of patriotism involved in many enlistments.

Then there are the young studs who join because they grew up playing Call of Duty and want to experience it first hand.

I went back in after an eighteen year absence because I honestly missed the service. It was and is a good life and I still miss it every day.

Elias Graves
01-19-2010, 07:41 PM
I do know this: The military has studied in depth who gets killed in cobat. it is noted that most casualties occur with newbies in combat and the Army wanted to find out why some get killed in ten minutes while others serve years without a scratch.
Certain character traits indicate whether one has the personality to handle combat. Those who are not particularly competitive or are overly sensitive are the ones who typically get killed soon. The Army tries to assign these individuals to noncombat roles.

EG

Richard White
01-19-2010, 08:29 PM
Budman,

A door gunner? Wow.

I served 1984-99 but I was in MI. Of course, the 101st thought that meant "More Infantry" but it was a fun run anway until the Army made me an offer I could refuse. (Fricken fracken branch managers).

Good to see you here.

Noah Body
01-19-2010, 11:34 PM
I was aviation first and later infantry (career progression)

I went in straight from high school in 1965, stayed in Vietnam for 32 months as a helicopter gunship crew chief/door gunner and then (after healing from multiple gsw) became a cop. I retired as a police chief of a small town in Illinois in 1987 and went back on active duty with the Army. Became a flight platoon sergeant of an assault company with Blackhawks, then rebranched Infantry, qualified as an Infantry platoon sergeant (at age 42! I learned it is possible to vomit more than once on a 10 k formation run) and then 1st Sgt. Broke several vertebrae in a training accident and was med retired in 1999.

Probably too much info, eh?

Here's a larger pic of the aircraft. It is supposed to be me hanging out the left door with the machinegun. The aircraft is mine but I was never quite that tall. <GRIN>



UH-1M, eh? I think those were all in the boneyard by the time I showed up in 1984. Amazing story, 1SG. Guys your grade are always the career folks, I'm amazed you went back for another dose and stayed for so long!