Genre: Friend and Foe.

I'm not published so maybe I'm missing something here...but I don't get it.

Gary Clarke said:

I suspected it might resonate with those of us who are published.

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It resonates among those of us who are never to be published, too: It's like learning to color within the lines in kindergarten; you don't write inside the genre box, you're pretty much screwed.

caw

Gary Clarke said:

Perhaps! I still believe you have to write from the heart, regardless, that's where the best work comes from.

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I completely agree, with the caveat that "best work" is personally subjective. "Successful work" is less so, being dependent on the marketplace, which is more than ever a succession of discrete square holes your triangular peg won't fit very well.

caw

blacbird said:

It resonates among those of us who are never to be published, too: It's like learning to color within the lines in kindergarten; you don't write inside the genre box, you're pretty much screwed.

caw

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I tried to colour within the lines in kindergarten and stabbed myself in the eye with a crayon. How are my publishing chances?

Every book ever written, including literary novels, is either a genre novel, or a mish-mash mess that doesn't fit anywhere, not because it isn't genre, but because it isn't anything.

No, teacher, teacher, over here! I've read every book ever written! Twice! Uphill both ways!

Cool cartoon. I'm hoping for the time, nine books down the line, when they're screaming for number ten.

Heh heh...I like it.

You're so talented!

Gary Clarke said:

You've read them all? Every single book ever written?

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It's like this. If you like typology, you'll make up types. If you like a book, you focus on the elements that make it fit a type. If you don't like a book, you focus on the elements that don't make it fit a type. If it fits no type at all, but you like it, you make up a new type, look for others that fit, call the book in question a prototype, and the others are genealogy.

You then engage in vigorous arguments with people who think that books that fit a type are pre-constructed tripe.

The genre game is fun, but it's really not always about the stories.

***

ETA: I just love your cartoons. The writer's expression at the knight's posture is priceless!

Gary Clarke said:

Seriously though - I think I understand what you mean. But I'm pretty sure I don't!

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JAR said:

Jamesaritchie said:

Every book ever written, including literary novels, is either a genre novel, or a mish-mash mess that doesn't fit anywhere, not because it isn't genre, but because it isn't anything.

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I neither agree nor disagree. It depends on how you approach literature, and how you deal with classification difficulty.

You replied with a specific question:

Gary Clarke said:

You've read them all? Every single book ever written?

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What would that change?

Classification difficulty can be overcome. You judge if it's worth the effort. If it's worth the effort, you amend your classification theme to account for the new book. A new genre, an expansion of the scope of existing generes...

Some people see genre expectations as restrictive. Genre is boring... These people will generally focus, not on how a novel expands what the genres mean, but on how a book "breaks genre expectations".

These two approaches can say much the same thing about texts, but still clash because of the fundamental difference in emphasis that expresses itself in language. It's not about the text, but about the world-views of the critics.

I was being flip about it, with a bit more sympathy for the "genre expectations are restrictive" approach, but without really favouring either. And I didn't successfully communicate.

And note that I've classified approaches to literature and genre into two types. Heh. What does that say about me?

And the moral of this story is: standalone fantasy novels are plain better.

Gary Clarke said:

You've read them all? Every single book ever written?

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Yes.

Gary Clarke said:

Yeah, must confess, I've only a fuzzy idea what you're saying Dawnstorm, but that's because I'm ( genuinely) clueless and more then a little disinterested when it comes to the critical classification of literature. A lot of which seems to happen after the fact and with little heed to what the writer themselves may have thought on the matter. I'm all about the book by book reading experience me - and when it comes to writing I'm all about 'write what you need to write'.

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I believe what she's saying is "I don't care what other people call it; I just read and write what I like."

Which I completely agree with.

I don't read or write genres. I read and write books. I read and write stories.

If you don't have a sparkling clear idea of what genre you're writing in before you begin a book, odds are you'll write a completely unpublishable book. Rightfully so.

Jamesaritchie said:

If you don't have a sparkling clear idea of what genre you're writing in before you begin a book, odds are you'll write a completely unpublishable book.

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Maybe.

Rightfully so.

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Speaking as a reader... I can't think of anything more wrong.

kuwisdelu said:

Maybe.



Speaking as a reader... I can't think of anything more wrong.

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Then you're a reader who's never read a slush pile.

And as a reader, how in the world can you possibly know whether all those published novels were written with or without a specific genre in mind? I guarantee that pretty much every published novel you've read and loved began with teh writer knowing exactly what genre he was writing in.


Either that, or he should have been playing the lottery isntead of writing because he was the world's luckist person.

Jamesaritchie said:

If you don't have a sparkling clear idea of what genre you're writing in before you begin a book, odds are you'll write a completely unpublishable book. Rightfully so.

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I'm calling bogus. Why? Because books can often be classified in multiple genres. Some urban fantasies are also called paranormal romances. A novel might be referred to as both a thriller and a horror novel. Some genres are very close. Also, I've run across authors who said they originally called their work one thing (such as horror) and it was published as another (fantasy). What about how author reputation affects our ideas of their book genres? Example: Stephen King's considered a horror writer so Firestarter and The Dead Zone get classed as horror. If he didn't have the rep, though, I'm guessing they might be called science fiction. Genre is not as simple as it seems.