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Rarri
01-04-2010, 03:30 PM
An article from the BBC, thought it may be of interest: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8424600.stm :)

kaitie
01-04-2010, 03:49 PM
Wow Jamie Oliver is on there? And that high? That's really surprising to me. Cool, but surprising.

alleycat
01-04-2010, 04:41 PM
And a book about grammar is number eight on the nonfiction list . . .

gothicangel
01-04-2010, 04:51 PM
Bestsellers, not saying much about literary achievement . . .

megan_d
01-04-2010, 05:40 PM
Bestsellers, not saying much about literary achievement . . .

Clearly the naughties did not see an end to literary snobbery. Maybe this decade?

gothicangel
01-04-2010, 06:07 PM
I don't actually see literary snobbery as a problem. I actually think it encourages me as a writer to do better.

But I love Ian Rankin, David Peace and Henning Mankell. Genre fiction AND literary :D

megan_d
01-05-2010, 05:17 AM
But that mindset suggests that people writing bestsellers that appeal to a huge audience are poor writers.

gothicangel
01-05-2010, 01:25 PM
Dan Brown, Katie Price, nuff said :D

Maxinquaye
01-05-2010, 02:48 PM
Dan Brown, Katie Price, nuff said :D

What is that divebomber whistling sound I suddenly hear? :D

megan_d
01-05-2010, 06:08 PM
Dan Brown, Katie Price, nuff said :D

Terry Prachett, J.K.Rowling? Just because there are a few you you think lack talent, why should all bestselling authors be looked down upon?

maxmordon
01-05-2010, 06:38 PM
Terry Prachett, J.K.Rowling? Just because their are a few you you think lack talent, why should all bestselling authors be looked down upon?

Exactly, they aren't exactly there for winning a raffle... well, perhaps Dan Brown, but you see the point.

Exir
01-05-2010, 06:56 PM
Neil Gaiman, Markus Zusak, (and back in his time) Shakespeare!

gothicangel
01-05-2010, 10:11 PM
Who said anything about lacking talent? Dan Brown knows how to construct a riveting plot, Katie Price knows how to get front page every morning in the British tabloids. I don't look down on other writers, I look critically at aspects of their craft.

I write mainstream but occassionally read Simon Kernick to pick up tips on pace.

You will also find that literary writers are bestsellers too.

Can't beat Neil Gaiman or Shakespeare. :D

megan_d
01-06-2010, 09:04 AM
Who said anything about lacking talent?

You suggested that the authors on the OPs list had not made any real literary achievement, and then went on to say that this mindset encourages you to write better than them, suggesting that there writing is of a lesser standard.

I'm sorry if you feel I'm singling you out too much or something, it's just that this whole idea that bestselling books are inferior to "literary" novels drives me crazy.

It's like that Pride and Prejudice and Zombies book, I remember when it first came out all the hip blogs on the internet were posting about how clover and postmodern it was, but as soon as it achieved success and became well known, suddenly all I hear about is how awful it is to debase a classic like that.

This of course is a mindset not limited to literature, pretty much all creative mediums have those who value the obscure over the popular. Still, it bugs me.

bettielee
01-06-2010, 09:19 AM
**bracing for impact**

Xelebes
01-06-2010, 09:25 AM
This of course is a mindset not limited to literature, pretty much all creative mediums have those who value the obscure over the popular. Still, it bugs me.

It's called over-exposure. If it gets in the face of people too much, they begin to hate it. Once there is some distance, than they can get back to enjoying it.

megan_d
01-06-2010, 10:17 AM
It's called over-exposure. If it gets in the face of people too much, they begin to hate it. Once there is some distance, than they can get back to enjoying it.

Oh, that's definitely the case to some extent, but you can't deny that there are those who measure the worth of something by how well known it is.

Exir
01-06-2010, 11:27 AM
In the past, there was no "elite art" and "popular art", only "art art". What we now call "Classical Music" was in fact "THE music" back when they were first composed. Mozart was like The Beatles of his time.

Ms Hollands
01-06-2010, 12:21 PM
And a book about grammar is number eight on the nonfiction list . . .

Urk, I dislike the writing style of that book soooo much! Sooooooooo sooo much.

It's good to see 'related internet links' on the side include Stuff On My Cat. Great site!

gothicangel
01-06-2010, 01:26 PM
Oh, that's definitely the case to some extent, but you can't deny that there are those who measure the worth of something by how well known it is.

Maybe a minority, but readers who like literary titles are the same as genre readers. It depends on the quality of the book. There are some obscure books that are worth reading, The Life Of Pi being one of them before being shortlist for the Booker.

Snobbery works both ways y'know.

Kalyke
01-06-2010, 01:37 PM
Guillermo Vargas Habacuc

Tedium
01-06-2010, 02:44 PM
The noughties? Really?

JimmyB27
01-06-2010, 04:41 PM
Bestsellers, not saying much about literary achievement . . .


You suggested that the authors on the OPs list had not made any real literary achievement, and then went on to say that this mindset encourages you to write better than them, suggesting that there writing is of a lesser standard.
Suggesting a lack of direct causality between bestsellerhood and literary achievement is not the same as saying none of them made any literary achievement.

gothicangel
01-06-2010, 06:28 PM
What I should have suggested is a list that looked at more than sales: critical reviews; awards; recommendations from book review editors, agents, publishers. Just looking at sales is a very tunnel vision way to look at the literary achievement of th '00.