When a publisher closes?

peyton67 · Dec 28, 2009

Hi, folks! I'm seeking your counsel.
I have two books published by a small independent publisher, and am contracted for 1 more in a series. The outlook for the publisher, however, looks bleak. Although I own the rights to my books, is there a chance that an agent or another publisher will take me if my publisher closes? What if I repackage the series with a new name, characters, etc.?

Thanks for your help!

AryaT92 · Dec 28, 2009

How did your earlier books do?

HMS · Dec 28, 2009

First thing is to make sure you have all your contracts in order so you understand and can explain your rights, obligations, etc. If there is any uncertainty, you may have trouble getting an agent or another publisher to take an interest.
Is the publisher going to close or file bankruptcy? That will make a difference.
Ultimately, you may need to consult with an attorney.

peyton67 · Dec 28, 2009

AryaT92 said:
How did your earlier books do?

Hi, Arya-
That's a great question- I wish I knew. Part of the reason that my publisher is going under is either fiscal mismanagement, poor accounting, or both. Although when my first book came out, they claimed to have a thousand orders in the first week and hundreds more after that. My royalties, however, never even came close. Even my Amazon numbers are a mystery... it seems as though I never get royalties from sales there.

So... it is difficult to ascertain how many books I sold. Although I have developed a stable regional following, I think it may be best to start from scratch...

Again, any advice is welcomed!

AryaT92 · Dec 28, 2009

Was this small press reputable and respectable? Do you mind sharing the name, it would help us better understand the situation. I assume you did the appropiate research and they checked out so they weren't a self publishing / vanity press.

If it is reputable then it will always help to have a published book under them, if not it may be best to start from scratch as you said.

I don't know if another publisher would take a continuation of a series but it wouldn't shock me. I know several books that have been published with different houses that could be considered sequels.

At this point, your answer really depends on how marketable and 'good' your novels really are. Is there a chance? Of course.

Being published by a small press is better than no credentials at all so it might pull the agent in to take a hard look at your MS. Ultimately though it is your work that will make or break your chances.

I would have a intellectual property or literary lawyer look over your contract with this small press to make sure you are in the clear before querying agents / other pubs.

Good luck!

Little Red Barn · Dec 28, 2009

peyton67 said:
Hi, folks! I'm seeking your counsel.
I have two books published by a small independent publisher, and am contracted for 1 more in a series. The outlook for the publisher, however, looks bleak. Although I own the rights to my books, is there a chance that an agent or another publisher will take me if my publisher closes? What if I repackage the series with a new name, characters, etc.?

Thanks for your help!

Hi peyton, agents and editors will be able to get about 70% of your sales through Bookscan, a program they have privy too. No worries there. You might also call your distributor and they will be able to give numbers due to the circumstances.

Yes, you can get another agent and yes, publishers might consider.

There and doing it now.

hang in there and good luck.

Cyia · Dec 28, 2009

You may own all the rights to your book, but you don't have all those rights to sell anymore. 1st rights are gone as soon as the book is published, and unless you've sold monster numbers (like 5000 per title) another publisher won't be interested in buying it for reprint. You'd have to do more than repackage the books, you'd have to change the plot up.

Is there no way book #3 can stand on its own? If it can, try to sell that one and if it's a hit the publisher might want to re-release the other 2. (And, INAL, but just because a press goes under doesn't mean you're clear to sell a contracted book to another one.)

peyton67 · Dec 28, 2009

AryaT92 said:
Was this small press reputable and respectable? Do you mind sharing the name, it would help us better understand the situation. I assume you did the appropiate research and they checked out so they weren't a self publishing / vanity press.

I appreciate your thoughts!
They are not a self publishing/vanity press... I've never paid them a dime and they have sent me (some) royalties I'd rather not share their name here. My intent is not to defame them, but to move ahead without them (since they don't seem to be able to).

Many thanks again!

Jamesaritchie · Dec 28, 2009

The only way you can know is to try. First rights really mean very little to a book publisher. All that matter is whether they think there's a good market for the book.

Soem mosnter bestsellers were first published by this or that small publisher, and became mega hits only when a large publisher decided tehre was market potential.

The first time I remember this happening was with Asimov's Foundation Trilogy. Butit happened to Jhn Grisham and Tom Clancy, as well. Both had their first novels published by small presses, then by huge publishers.

It's all about market potential, and only a particular publisher can make this decision.

Little Red Barn · Dec 28, 2009

Jamesaritchie said:
The only way you can know is to try. First rights really mean very little to a book publisher. All that matter is whether they think there's a good market for the book.

Soem mosnter bestsellers were first published by this or that small publisher, and became mega hits only when a large publisher decided tehre was market potential.

The first time I remember this happening was with Asimov's Foundation Trilogy. Butit happened to Jhn Grisham and Tom Clancy, as well. Both had their first novels published by small presses, then by huge publishers.

It's all about market potential, and only a particular publisher can make this decision.[/QUOTE]
Exactly what James says. Again, I'm in about the same boat. Book was released in hardcover with a small pub who went defunct the 3rd month out. Had to let my agent go, gained a new agent, BUT I placed the book in 3 super-great pub houses and one of the big six, before gaining new agent. Will pub take? I dunno, but at least they are considering... for now.

triceretops · Dec 28, 2009

Yep, same thing happened to me. Three months out of the gate for my second title with the now defunct pub house. New prospective agent thinks a strong rewrite, different title, cover etc. might breathe new life into it.

Tri

peyton67 · Dec 29, 2009

triceretops said:
Yep, same thing happened to me. Three months out of the gate for my second title with the now defunct pub house. New prospective agent thinks a strong rewrite, different title, cover etc. might breathe new life into it.

Tri

Thanks again, everyone!
So, my next question concerns queries... when I query new publishers or agents, how much do I disclose? I want to be honest, but don't want the baggage to get in the way of sharing my stories!

jclarkdawe · Dec 29, 2009

peyton67 said:
Thanks again, everyone!
So, my next question concerns queries... when I query new publishers or agents, how much do I disclose? I want to be honest, but don't want the baggage to get in the way of sharing my stories!

Depends upon how well you can spin it. I'd get out my royalty statements and start looking at what numbers are there. Who was the distributor that your publisher used? I'd contact them and explain the problem and see if they can give you some numbers. Do you have a website? What sort of action is it getting? Letters to a writer are a great indicator of fan base.

There's a lot of ways to see what sort of number you generated and then the question is how to present them. The fact that none of this is your fault is good. The fact that you've got 2/3s of a series is not. Personally I'd try a different book to land an agent, then work through its success to get the third book of your series out and the first two republished.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

Richard White · Dec 29, 2009

Peyton,

What kind of revisions clause do you have in your contract with this publisher?

Whether they're a legitimate or a vanity publisher means nothing here. What matters is what's in your contract. Until they release you or until the conditions in your contract are met to release your printing rights back to you, then you do not have the legal right to offer your book to another publisher.

You're not alone in this as small publishers go under all the time, but until you have something in writing from your publisher releasing you, you're going to have a hard time getting a publisher to look at your stuff.

As James pointed out, previously published books do occasionally get picked up. HOWEVER, if you don't have free and unencumbered rights to the book, (and since another publisher is selling your books . . . you don't), you can't do anything until you get your rights back. Don't confuse copyright (which you still have) with printing rights (which this publisher currently has).

If you think this publisher is going under, then I'd start asking for your release now. However, understand that they're not obligated to give it to you if you have a signed contract and you owe them the third novel.

Terie · Dec 29, 2009

Richard White said:
What kind of revisions clause do you have in your contract with this publisher?

I'm pretty sure that Richard meant 'reversion clause'. Not that I'm into correcting typos, but that one has a substantially different meaning.

Little Red Barn · Dec 29, 2009

peyton67 said:
Thanks again, everyone!
So, my next question concerns queries... when I query new publishers or agents, how much do I disclose? I want to be honest, but don't want the baggage to get in the way of sharing my stories!

Everything. Briefly. Maybe a bullet list; Where the book has been--Where it is now and Where its potential -- future is.

Richard White · Dec 29, 2009

Terie said:
I'm pretty sure that Richard meant 'reversion clause'. Not that I'm into correcting typos, but that one has a substantially different meaning.

Thanks, Terie.

You're absolutely right. (I'm in the middle of revising a document and I have revision on my mind . . .) :e2bummed:

The contract should have a reversion clause in it. That's what he's going to have to go by to get his book free and clear to offer it to another publisher/agent.

When a publisher closes?

peyton67

AryaT92

HMS

peyton67

AryaT92

Little Red Barn

haz own threads

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny

peyton67

Jamesaritchie

Little Red Barn

haz own threads

triceretops

peyton67

jclarkdawe

Feeling lucky, Query?

Richard White

Stealthy Plot Bunny Peddler

Terie

Writer is as Writer does

Little Red Barn

haz own threads

Richard White

Stealthy Plot Bunny Peddler