Because No One Else Would Understand

Button · Dec 16, 2009

I tried explaining to someone why you wouldn't write nonfiction for no pay (content articles) but that sometimes people write fiction for no pay (for a contest, for a blog, for a magazine that doesn't pay).

The person didn't understand. "Writing is writing, and I don't see the difference if one person is asking for free [fiction] content and the other one is asking for free [article] content, but one is OK and the other isn't."

I tried to explain that there is a difference. I think it's kind of like trying to explain to my mother why freelance writing is just as much of a job as working at a grocery store. She just laughs when I tell her about this or that was published and tells me the button factory is hiring.

*sigh and hugs AW and all writers*

Sorry. Had to vent.

lucidzfl · Dec 16, 2009

Writing seems to be one of the most misunderstood crafts in the world.

Button · Dec 16, 2009

True dat.

ad_lucem · Dec 16, 2009

I've had this "writing is writing" conversation with my mother in the past. Of course, as with most conversations we have, it ended poorly.

But she's not the only one, not by a long shot. I've talked to people who encourage me to take up "technical writing" if I simply must insist on writing things.

The "writing is writing" crowd has a totally different lense on the world. In some pragmatic sense they look at the whole picture and, finding words on the pages of both fiction and nonfiction books, decide they must be substantially similar.

The biggest battle I've waged internally is the battle against being "practical" and "realistic". I don't know about anyone else, but my inner voice is forever telling me to have the "fall back plan" for some "good job" in which I can prove to the world I wasn't worthless afterall.

In the process, I majored in a subject that I didn't like. Looking back, I should have been an art major. To make matters worse, my psyche has been poking at me for the past year to try graduate school in something "practical" and "intelligent"--again fighting the battle to prove myself.

I'm struggling to let go of that fight and just allow myself to be my artsy-fartsy, intuitive, creative self...instead of trying to stuff my personality into a mold that doesn't fit.

I just wanted to throw this out there in the event there are others out there with similar personalities contemplating work in some technical or business field just for the sake of proving their wits and economic viability to the world.

lucidzfl · Dec 16, 2009

ad_lucem said:
I've had this "writing is writing" conversation with my mother in the past. Of course, as with most conversations we have, it ended poorly.

But she's not the only one, not by a long shot. I've talked to people who encourage me to take up "technical writing" if I simply must insist on writing things.

The "writing is writing" crowd has a totally different lense on the world. In some pragmatic sense they look at the whole picture and, finding words on the pages of both fiction and nonfiction books, decide they must be substantially similar.

The biggest battle I've waged internally is the battle against being "practical" and "realistic". I don't know about anyone else, but my inner voice is forever telling me to have the "fall back plan" for some "good job" in which I can prove to the world I wasn't worthless afterall.

In the process, I majored in a subject that I didn't like. Looking back, I should have been an art major. To make matters worse, my psyche has been poking at me for the past year to try graduate school in something "practical" and "intelligent"--again fighting the battle to prove myself.

I'm struggling to let go of that fight and just allow myself to be my artsy-fartsy, intuitive, creative self...instead of trying to stuff my personality into a mold that doesn't fit.

I just wanted to throw this out there in the event there are others out there with similar personalities contemplating work in some technical or business field just for the sake of proving their wits and economic viability to the world.

I hate that shit.

Well if you like writing so much, you should do technical writing, at least that pays.

Its like telling a video game programmer, "Oh, you like writing code? You should do financial software, that pays good."

Or telling a race car driver, "You like driving? You should drive a cab/bus."

Tell a chef, "You like to cook? You could be the fry basket operator at Mcdonalds!"

Tell a Fighter pilot, "Hey why not fly a crop duster."

Tell a secret agent, "You like being in security, why not go work the late shift at a mall!"

I can do this all day.

Shadow_Ferret · Dec 16, 2009

Maybe I don't understand either. Why would you do one for free?

I want to be paid for ALL my writing, fiction or non-fiction.

ad_lucem · Dec 16, 2009

Shadow_Ferret said:
Maybe I don't understand either. Why would you do one for free?

I want to be paid for ALL my writing, fiction or non-fiction.

Preferably, I don't think anyone would write for free (unless already independently wealthy).

As someone starting out, though, I would be happy to receive payment in the form of readership and recognition--if not in dollars and cents.

I've certainly done plenty of hack and ghostwriting for no byline and pay so low it would make the fry cook at McDonald's say "Ay dios mio! No te creo!"

Button · Dec 16, 2009

Ideally, we'd all love to be paid for something we loved doing. If it was a question of being paid or not being paid as an option, we'd want to be paid.

But you know, signing up for a contest, writing a short fanfic for friends, writing a short story to warm up writing for your novel... or whatever. Some of the things you do that you put out there, and kind of hope maybe someone will call it a special snowflake but really, you're putting it out there for free and appreciate the feedback.

But it seems to be far fetched that someone couldn't write for pure enjoyment and just wanted to share a story or two online. Or join a fiction writing contest that just ends in a 'winner' with nothing to it other than bragging rights.

Or maybe it's just opinion?

bettielee · Dec 16, 2009

**snuggles button the cat back**

Shadow_Ferret · Dec 16, 2009

ButtonTheCat said:
But you know, signing up for a contest, writing a short fanfic for friends, writing a short story to warm up writing for your novel... or whatever. Some of the things you do that you put out there, and kind of hope maybe someone will call it a special snowflake but really, you're putting it out there for free and appreciate the feedback.

I want to be paid and I've never entered a contest.

NeuroFizz · Dec 16, 2009

lucidzfl said:
Well if you like writing so much, you should do technical writing, at least that pays.

Shadow_Ferret said:
Maybe I don't understand either. Why would you do one for free?

I want to be paid for ALL my writing, fiction or non-fiction.

ad_lucem said:
Preferably, I don't think anyone would write for free (unless already independently wealthy).

You guys would never make it in the scientific side of academics. The scientific journals don't pay a cent, in fact, some have page charges, particularly if you want to include color figures. I have over 70 scientific publications, and I have not earned a single cent from any of them, because author payments are just not done by any of the traditional scientific journals. But the pubs were necessary for being able to stay in the academic job, for obtaining tenure, and for being promoted to Full Professor. And most raises in research-based academic institutions are merit-based, so continued publication is necessary to get raises (when they are available). So, I guess there is an indirect pay-off, just not from the journals.

Mac H. · Dec 16, 2009

Shadow_Ferret said:
Maybe I don't understand either. Why would you do one for free?

I want to be paid for ALL my writing, fiction or non-fiction.

Then why are you writing on this message board ?

Why on earth did you write that post for free ?

Mac

kayleamay · Dec 17, 2009

I write for free. Except for writing for a little newspaper, I've always written for free. I like writing, so I do it. If I get paid for that someday, I'll consider it a bonus.

I work as a nurse to pay my bills, but I enjoy my job too. If I became rich over night, I would still work as a nurse, just fewer hours.

This thread has piqued my interest regarding what motivates people to write. I think there's a poll waiting to happen here.

ad_lucem · Dec 17, 2009

kayleamay said:
I write for free. Except for writing for a little newspaper, I've always written for free. I like writing, so I do it.

It's certainly a good enough reason. I don't get paid for street painting, either...unless you count the bagels, water, and chalk provided as payment.

Still, if I were to get paid to do something I loved, I wouldn't exactly cry over it. That's all I'm saying.

kayleamay · Dec 17, 2009

ad_lucem said:
It's certainly a good enough reason. I don't get paid for street painting, either...unless you count the bagels, water, and chalk provided as payment.

Still, if I were to get paid to do something I loved, I wouldn't exactly cry over it. That's all I'm saying.

I wouldn't object to getting paid for writing either. (Sorry, I fat fingered my keyboard and posted before I'd finished.)

lucidzfl · Dec 17, 2009

NeuroFizz said:
You guys would never make it in the scientific side of academics. The scientific journals don't pay a cent, in fact, some have page charges, particularly if you want to include color figures. I have over 70 scientific publications, and I have not earned a single cent from any of them, because author payments are just not done by any of the traditional scientific journals. But the pubs were necessary for being able to stay in the academic job, for obtaining tenure, and for being promoted to Full Professor. And most raises in research-based academic institutions are merit-based, so continued publication is necessary to get raises (when they are available). So, I guess there is an indirect pay-off, just not from the journals.

I write patent disclosures, specification sheets and white papers that run in the 5,000 to 10,000 word range at my job.

I do not make a dime off of this writing, however my name is on patents and I have documents in the ether for research.

Work related writing is totally different from writing done completely outside of the realm of your career.

Sophia · Dec 17, 2009

NeuroFizz said:
You guys would never make it in the scientific side of academics. The scientific journals don't pay a cent, in fact, some have page charges, particularly if you want to include color figures. I have over 70 scientific publications, and I have not earned a single cent from any of them, because author payments are just not done by any of the traditional scientific journals. But the pubs were necessary for being able to stay in the academic job, for obtaining tenure, and for being promoted to Full Professor. And most raises in research-based academic institutions are merit-based, so continued publication is necessary to get raises (when they are available). So, I guess there is an indirect pay-off, just not from the journals.

Academia is a different culture, though. You get paid for doing the research. I never thought of writing up a paper to be academically published as a job to be paid for, but rather as part of the prize or goal I was aiming at when doing the research. They were doing me a favour; I was building up my reputation by proving I was able to pass both peer review and stand out enough from the other submissions to be accepted. The pay-off was indirect, as you say, but it was pretty huge. What academic doesn't want a long list of first-name papers in prestigious journals on their CV? Having an article about your work accepted in something like National Geographic would be an incredible indication of the importance of your work, and I think at that stage, payment would be expected, because you're on a more commercial platform. I think that academic publishers get some money through university subscriptions to their journals. If I thought this was a large enough amount that it would more than cover the expenses of the printing and the reviewers, then I would begin to wonder why payment to scientists for their papers wasn't more the norm. I'd always assumed the publishers broke even, however. Do you know if that's far from the case?

benbradley · Dec 17, 2009

Mac H. said:
Then why are you writing on this message board ?

Why on earth did you write that post for free ?

Mac

Dammit, I just gave him a rep point asking how much he got paid for that post, THEN I read your response...

Shadow_Ferret · Dec 17, 2009

I get commission for posting here.

Shadow_Ferret · Dec 17, 2009

By the way, if you guys consider posting as writing, do you consider conversations with your friends as oratory?

semilargeintestine · Dec 17, 2009

I consider any conversation I have with my friends to be worthy of compensation.

ad_lucem · Dec 17, 2009

Shadow_Ferret said:
By the way, if you guys consider posting as writing, do you consider conversations with your friends as oratory?

No, charity. On their part, that is. No illusions here.

lucidzfl · Dec 17, 2009

Shadow_Ferret said:
By the way, if you guys consider posting as writing, do you consider conversations with your friends as oratory?

I have no friends, thus, I win.

ad_lucem · Dec 17, 2009

lucidzfl said:
I have no friends, thus, I win.

Not even some auditory hallucinations with good listening skills or an imaginary friend or two?

Bummer.

semilargeintestine · Dec 17, 2009

Trust me. Auditory hallucinations are only good for listening to music at night when your iPod is broken or out of batteries.

Because No One Else Would Understand

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