You ever critique someone's work and they were offended?

Oh yeah, it was a critique on YWO and they took the pages down soon after. Then I discovered they were a friend, I don't think she knows it was me yet . . .

On the otherside of the coin, I had critiques done (not AW) that have offended me. It was one that can only be put down to jealousy. It was two years ago, but the comments were along 'this is s***'; 'if this is what gets published, I don't want to be published'. Which are strange comments considering Darley and Anderson told me it had bestseller potential . . .

When I crit or beta I'm completely honest, which is often a problem so I rarely do it now.

Basically your average writer wants to be told they're brilliant! a literary genius! a definite bestseller! And if you don't support that delusion, they get pissy as hell.

Those types will never be published.

(Also it makes me laugh when they get all polly pissy pants. )

I think I'm blunt in my critiques. Not sure. It isn't that I mean to be rude, it's just to save the author time wading through a rambling and overlong explanation of why I don't think that something works. If I've offended anyone I didn't mean it.

... about a year and a half ago a fellow here bragged about how brutally honest he was with his critiques. As a result more than a dozen newish members had quit posting on the site, altogether, as he claimed because they were so crushed by his critiques. Bugged me afterwards when I got to thinking about it, especially as he seemed proud of the fact and to be gloating over it.

As to me, I take into consideration what level a writer is on when I critique them, which becomes pretty obvious after reading a paragraph or two. If they're beginners and have lots to learn I go easy, offering some critiques about things they might fix but making sure to be positive so as not to discourage them from continuing to write and making efforts to improve. I feel that's important.

With more seasoned writers I occasionally am brutal, as brutality sometimes seems to be the only way to get through to some set on clinging to bad habits, as I've found.

I know I have in an old writing workshop I did ages ago...but that's okay because I had a few that offended me as well. Actually, I used to have a friend who fell into the, "This is shit," category...needless to stay she's no longer a friend. Some people, I think, feel better about themselves by dissing others.

I also try to take level into account, and I was taught early on to try to point out good things as well as bad. Often it's easy to only point out bad things because obviously the good things are fine, but it's so discouraging to see nothing but negative, so I always try to point out anything that's done well. I won't lie to people, though.

I critique a lot, so I get this now and then. Happened just a few days ago, actually. Makes me wish I could punch people in the face over the internet. Sadly, all I can do is add them to my internal Douchebag List of People Never to Help Again.

aadams73 said:

When I crit or beta I'm completely honest, which is often a problem so I rarely do it now.

Basically your average writer wants to be told they're brilliant! a literary genius! a definite bestseller! And if you don't support that delusion, they get pissy as hell.

Those types will never be published.

(Also it makes me laugh when they get all polly pissy pants. )

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This, this, a thousand times this.

I gave a mild critique to a precious snowflake once and she went tits mental. Ah well. Put me off critting I can tell you.

Now I precede everything with, "You do realise I'm brutal, don't you?" Weird, because this other crit was mild and after the reaction I got I thought, might as well go at it all guns blazing then, if that's the reaction I'm gonna get.

So that's why I only beta for tt42 now. She can take whatever I dish out and it's all for the good of the story anyway. I'll read chapters here and there for other people if they really want me to, but Lori's the only one who gets detailed crits and in-depth conversation about her work.

Like aadams73 said, people want to be told they're literary geniuses. "It's all right - I can take it!" is never the truth.

Unless your name's thethinker42. A writer less in possession of ego I have yet to meet, nor one who more deserves it.

I think there is a difference too. I had a critter early on when I started writing who was just awful. Not critical in a good way. She kept making little notes, like "It's obvious your a beginner" "I would go back to the drawing board, this is awful" type of comments. Nothing constructive at all. When I got it back I was floored and asked my regular CP if I was indeed a shitty writer. She was offended by the other crit person. (She actually did a blog post about just plain mean people after that LOL)

Its funny really, because that story was my first published story a few weeks later. The critter as yet remains unpublished. Since then I am very particular about who I let crit for me. Not because I don't want to hear the truth, but because I have no time for people to act like shit just because. Tell me I'm telling, tell me to add more to a scene, etc. Don't make snide comments every few lines about how much I suck.

When I crit other people, I try very hard to point out all the good along with areas of improvement. My aim isn't to make someone feel so bad that they want to give up. Honesty is good, presented in a way that doesn't make someone else feel like shit.

Unfortunately, OP, some people can't even take the most basic feedback and will be offended by anything other than "You're a brilliant writer."

Don't stop beta-ing! There are plenty of people out there who actually want to hear it!!


Also, I think the more seasoned a writer becomes, the more they are able to read a crit from someone and pick out the Ahhha and DOH! parts, and know they don't have to do everything thats pointed out. (Comes in handy when you get edit suggestions from your agent too! )

Yup. Critting needs to be constructive. I tend towards flagging filtering, telling-not-showing, inconsistencies of character, that sort of thing.

Brutal, yes. Pointlessly rude, no.

I still maintain if someone threatens to quit writing because of a bad crit they were never a writer in the first place, just someone looking for a circle jerk.

Besides, if you can't take a crit, you're screwed when it comes to the submission process anyway. I'm brutal, but nothing like an agent or a publishing house. So come big or stay home.

You see it a lot on SYW. New writers who post, and by their obvious tone, are looking for everyone to say they are brilliant. The ones who truly want to learn and improve are pretty obvious!

scarletpeaches said:

Yup. Critting needs to be constructive. I tend towards flagging filtering, telling-not-showing, inconsistencies of character, that sort of thing.

Brutal, yes. Pointlessly rude, no.

I still maintain if someone threatens to quit writing because of a bad crit they were never a writer in the first place, just someone looking for a circle jerk.

Besides, if you can't take a crit, you're screwed when it comes to the submission process anyway. I'm brutal, but nothing like an agent or a publishing house. So come big or stay home.

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Amen on all counts.

i understand this thread lol, yes it gets to a point where you go, 'why did i bother spending an hour or more looking into a story if everything is going to be disregarded or looked at as a personal attack. This is a writing forum to improve, if a writer believes they are good enough not to have feedback except for praise, then just sub it. sounds cold to say that, but showcasing is something i have never understood.

makes me think about this beta reader thing more and more, but i don't know much about that.

YAwriter72 said:

You see it a lot on SYW. New writers who post, and by their obvious tone, are looking for everyone to say they are brilliant. The ones who truly want to learn and improve are pretty obvious!

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Sadly, some people post so little (and don't fill out their profiles) that it's difficult for me to tell in advance that they're going to be a douchebag. If only they'd fill out their "Best quality" section in advance with "My ability to ignore the jealous fools who try to drag me down to their level!", I'd know not to bother.

One thing I don't want to be told is 'you're a brilliant writer' ,because it just smacks of 'actually I haven't got a clue and can't offer you anything to develop your writing'.

I want comments like 'Great scene but you slipped from 3rd POV limited into omniscience'
'This scene confused me, who the hell is FMC talking about?'
'You've info-dumped here and I skipped it.'

Helpful comments.

I once critted a nano novel, and after wading through about half of it I told the author that her dialogue was good, technically it was good, but the story was so weak, I couldn't even tell what genre it was. Obviously not what she wanted to hear. She was Quite Upset.

I tend not to crit here. I don't have the confidence. I'll have a read and point out some things that leap out at me as a reader, but as a writer feel I'm not of a standard to point out other people's fault when I can't recognise them in my own writing.

When it comes to seeking crits, I tend not to do that myself because - and this will sound arrogant, I know - there's only one other writer on this site who's so completely on my level she understands what I'm trying to do and how to encourage me to express that. So we beta/crit/read through over MSN and by email.

I'm not saying she's the only one who's better than me, but she gives it some welly rather than this "Oh, that was nice. I liked that," nonsense. I would say "She's better than me and not scared of me, either!"

Plus, I've pissed off plenty of people with my forthright attitude so would expect much of the crits I'd get to be from a place of "Right, I'll show that cow," rather than what was best for the story.

scarletpeaches said:

When it comes to seeking crits, I tend not to do that myself because - and this will sound arrogant, I know - there's only one other writer on this site who's so completely on my level she understands what I'm trying to do and how to encourage me to express that. So we beta/crit/read through over MSN and by email.

I'm not saying she's the only one who's better than me, but she gives it some welly rather than this "Oh, that was nice. I liked that," nonsense. I would say "She's better than me and not scared of me, either!"

Plus, I've pissed off plenty of people with my forthright attitude so would expect much of the crits I'd get to be from a place of "Right, I'll show that cow," rather than what was best for the story.

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Indeed. That's why we work well as writing partners.

I'll still beta for people, but rarely. Usually only if a) they're beta reading something of mind or b) we've discussed their writing enough that I'm comfortable enough with them to give them an honest crit. I don't beta for people I don't know, basically.

scarletpeaches said:

Plus, I've pissed off plenty of people with my forthright attitude so would expect much of the crits I'd get to be from a place of "Right, I'll show that cow," rather than what was best for the story.

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I think from me the attitude would be 'Argh, she's published! How can I tell her where's she's going wrong if she's so obviously a better writer than I?'

Noblesse will oblige on both sides of a critique, that of the critter and that of the recipient.

If the critter goes into the process with any other purpose than the honest desire to help, he should not crit. The crit is not a legitimate arena for grandstanding, nor should it be wielded either as a weapon or an ego-sop.

If the recipient goes into the process looking only for effusive praise, he'll be disappointed by anything less and will probably reject critical insights and suggestions. But whatever he gets, from praise to legit crit to brutality, the proper response is "Thank you." He can then determine, silently, which critters to pursue and which to avoid like the plagues they are.

normally when i post its because i've reached a point in its editing that needs another view. I learn from a critique, sometimes i disagree(depends on the writer as i usually look at their work too) but i'm willing to learn something new or a better way to express it. I used to fight and explain everything they picked up, but found out, i wasn't learning anything at all doing that, so now i try to see pass how i would see it, and try to see how the reader does. but getting a 'good story, thanks' shows me nothing, helps me not at all, it might boost the ego, but my ego is a horrible writer

Seams said:

i understand this thread lol, yes it gets to a point where you go, 'why did i bother spending an hour or more looking into a story if everything is going to be disregarded or looked at as a personal attack.

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The only rational reason to critique others is to improve your own skills at analysis. If you are truly altruistic, you'll see that, by helping others who will never be publishable anyway, you are only delaying their return to some more productive activity. Conversely, by not helping them, you will reduce their inevitable heartache and help put food into the mouths of their children.

Ellefire said:

I think from me the attitude would be 'Argh, she's published! How can I tell her where's she's going wrong if she's so obviously a better writer than I?'

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In my case I'm not - yet! Getting there, though. So what me and tt42 get up to on MSN works for us. I know I can sell books - I've done it! - but have still to work my synopsis magic on my own. (Wish me luck on the full I have out).

I've had published writers ask my opinion on things and it really is an honour, especially when I'm already a fan of their work. Such humility is refreshing, and a stark contrast to Le Snowflaque Preceusse dans la SYW.

(Them's real words from French France, y'knows).

I've found that no matter how nice you are, feelings can get hurt anyway. Some people come into critiques saying they're ready, but expecting to be told the story is fantastic. It's a rude shock for them to be told it needs work. Sometimes they don't even read the praise parts of the critique, but only the parts they perceive as bad.

And then you have someone like me: I'm going to start submitting in January. No critiques, no betas, at all. And it's because I fully expect a load of negative (unhelpful) critiques. I'm writing in omni, and the couple times I tried to do a critique of a first chapter draft I was admonished not to use the viewpoint. I was treated not as if I had made a deliberate choice about the viewpoint, but as I didn't know how to write and had to have it explained to me. You'd never hear someone say about a first person story, "I'm sure you know your story, but here's how you would write it in third." And I was actually told that. People commented on my using the viewpoint, not on how I did it. Very few comments on the actual story. I stayed polite and thanked everyone when the one thing I wanted to do was ask, "Is anyone going to actually do any critting of the work itself?" I shudder at the thought of a beta going through the manuscript and changing the viewpoint to third like the story was broken.

scarletpeaches said:

When it comes to seeking crits, I tend not to do that myself because - and this will sound arrogant, I know - there's only one other writer on this site who's so completely on my level she understands what I'm trying to do and how to encourage me to express that.

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I was going to say this too. I'm a snob I know. I have read all my betas before they beta'd for me. I need their writing to be on a caliber that actually will help me, so I am picky about who does it. (And have found some amazing betas because of it!)

And GOOD LUCK!