Using Real Secret Orders names?

Go ahead and use the name of the "secret" order. It isn't as if they will take you to court if they are so desperate to keep their existence hidden from general public knowledge.

Symbols are harder to say yay or nay on. Are they generic, or are they intrinsicly linked to one (and only one) order. There's also the question of trademarks and copyright on imagery, but if you are merely describing rather than reproducing the images you should be in the clear. There are precedents, but you would be best to check over each use of an image with someone who knows the law inside and out if you intend to depict the symbols rathe than merely refer to them.

dpaterso said:

It does seem kinda strange that you would know about a secret order. That means it's not secret, right?

Click to expand...

*points to the D*n Br*wn bestsellers and grins*

There are no secrets.

My thoughts...

Sounds like you want to put this secret order in a bad light. Well, writers have been doing that with the CIA, FBI and other government agencies for a long time. They tend to ignore.

But...if you found a secret order, their emblems, and oath on the web, I do not think this secret order sounds so secret. Therefore, putting them in a negative light may not be as easy as showing the CIA has a bad reputation for breaking laws.

If you have deep pockets and a good lawyer, defame away. On the other hand, if you want to keep the depth of those pockets to yourself, then I would change things up slightly just to keep it on the fictional side of things...

Just my humble thoughts...

I also question whether the purpose of the book is to 'defame' the order or to tell a story with such an order.

It does sound like the former...and I'm not sure why but Scientology came to my mind. haha.

I agree with thothguard51: be prepared if the Order sues you...as your goal seems to make a point or inform the public, not simply tell a yarn.

Sometimes, though, you can get your message to wider audience by NOT mentioning the culprit. After all, more people read, more informed.

Just my two cents.

I know you're asking if it's ok, but you could always create a secret order very similar to the one you want to use.

Do you want to use this order because you like the symbol and oath? Or is it the meaning behind the order's beliefs that you want?

I would make one up and use the secret order you found as a base or template to create your own.

It's fiction right? So personally i say write away.

And legality wouldn't your agent/editor/publisher let you know if your were being to heavy handed with anything that was too discriminatory or something that could get you into a whole lot of trouble?

I think it depends on the order you're talking about. If it's a Skull and Bones sort of thing I would just make up a different name but follow the same idea. If you're talking about something more along the lines of an ancient rumored group that may or may not really exist, go for it.

I think the main reason a group would be upset is if you were actually telling their secrets, but if you paint them in a bad light you could open yourself up to being sued. Scientology has shown that well enough. If it's something modern and powerful that has a track record of filing lawsuits, just change the name.

The easiest (and probably most legal) thing to do would be something like The Simpsons did with the StoneMasons. Instead of calling their super sekrit organization the Masons, they called them the Stone Cutters. It was an obvious allusion, but it worked for what they needed it for.

And remember, just because you think there's "bad" things in an oath, that doesn't mean others will. "Fundamental" doesn't necessarily equate to evil nor are "suggestions" still considered part of all doctrine where they were originally law.

I will have to kill you.

If you're not set on using this one Secret Order specifically I would say make one up. And the best way to do that would be to join one. (seriously) Most Masons (or other groups) have temples in all towns and I'm pretty sure that they are looking for membership. Go and join them, see what they're about. If you don't find them creepy or whatnot and decide to join you will probably experience a lot more of what goes on with something like that.

In my WIP I created a secret society of sorts that was based loosely from my experiences with a fraternity I joined in college. (Yes there is "secret society" stuff with them, not just beer). I don't think I could have written anything that seemed even half as authentic if I was just reading about groups like that IMHO.

Disclaimer: I'm not a Mason or anything like that, this is just a suggestion...not a recruitment post.