Has A Game Ever Forced You To Do Something Against Your Morals?

DwayneA · Nov 19, 2009

More and more games these days are made where the protagonist (controlled by you) has the potential to do immoral things, forcing the player to perform these actions in order to proceed or even win. Then there are games where the protagonist can be good or evil. Games like Overlord, Fable, Infamous, Grand Theft Auto series, just to name a few.

Personally, I would never play any of those games, because those game would force me to do things against my morale.

The only games of this type I have played are first person shooters (strangely enough, these are among my favorite games, such as Blood, Redneck Rampage, Duke Nukem 3d, Witchaven, etc), the Tomb Raider series (I've only played the first five games and their expansions), and the Quest for Glory series (as the thief). Personally, I would never do any of those things in real life. I'm no thief, murderer, terrorist, gangster, or any other type of bad person you can name.

If I did play Fable, I would become a good hero. If I played Infamous, I would always make the right choices for good karma. If I played Overlord, I would end the game with a 0% corruption rate. In fact, whenever I play first person shooters, I never shoot innocent civilians (except for one in Blood in the level Breeding Grounds because he has a key you need). Years ago when we first got Duke Nukem 3d, in the Red Light District Level, my younger brother Jeff actually killed all those babes. But whenever I play that level, I always leave with all of them alive.

Maybe it's just me, but I can't bring myself to do such immoral things, not even in videogames. I don't know if there's something wrong with me or not. So go ahead, call me a goody-two-shoes, but that's just me.

Has anyone else ever had these problems in videogames where you've been forced to do something that went against your morales just to win?

whistlelock · Nov 19, 2009

But, Dwayne, in the First Person Shooter you commit murder on a massive scale.

How is that different than being "evil" in Fable or Infamous?

SPMiller · Nov 19, 2009

Fatality.

Zoombie · Nov 19, 2009

Modern Warfare 2, kinda.

clockwork · Nov 19, 2009

Nope.

And I wouldn't harm a fly in real life. Literally. I'll chase a fly out a window rather than kill it. I don't have that problem in video games because however realistic the content is, I just does not register as being real to me in any way. Video games are just something to do in my spare time, as morally benign as tea and crumpets.

DwayneA · Nov 19, 2009

It's not murder if done in self-defense. Now if you shoot the civilians, then it's murder! I would never do that in real life.

Besides, it's not like the producers give you any other alternatives to deal with those trying to kill you.

I play games for fun. I know it's not real, but there is a time when I have to draw the line between fun and realistic impact.

Freelancer · Nov 19, 2009

Modern Warfare 2 flashes into my mind, but you can do that part without killing a single civilian as I heard (I'll play with it at the weekend.). But as I heard there the game is rather forcing you to kill civs and I don't like like this approach. The other one which is flashing into my mind is Bioshock, where you can kill children to get some bonus or you can save them (I saved them, but I hate this sort of moral decisions. That's why I put BS away for a longer period. I hate when they're taking this into a game.).

In games I'm always playing the good guy (Mass Effect, KOTOR, Jade Empire and other games where I must choose). The only game where I played evil was Overlord. There you had a chance to be evil or real evil. I was simple evil.

And the other game where I accepted the role of evil was Mafia - The City of Lost Haven. It was good to be the evil, who has a heart in the reality and pays for his crimes at the very end.

DwayneA · Nov 19, 2009

In most games, the protagonist's personality has already been determined, picked out by the producers. So all you do is control his/her actions. Games like Blood, Duke Nukem 3d, Tomb Raider, to name a few. The game producers don't give you any other alternatives to overcome whatever obstacles they encounter. So when they do the things they do, it's because they're supposed to, you're not given any other choice.

Then in other games, the protagonist's personality actually depends upon the player himself/herself. Games like the Quest For Glory series. In these games, you feel as if you've become the protagonist of the game itself. In one scene of the game Overlord that I know of, you can either return food stolen from peasants, or you can keep it. And in Fable, if you give arrest warrants to a guard, in the future, the town is crime-free and you feel good for playing a part in it, but if you give them to a criminal, the town has become a crime infested neighborhood, and somehow you can't help but feel responsible for what happened. These kinds of game actually allow you to make decisions about how the protagonist acts rather than doing what the game designers expect you to do. Personally, if I ever played these games, I would never do something that I would later come to regret and feel guilty over later.

Maybe that's why the thief is my least favorite character to use in the Quest for Glory series.

Wavy_Blue · Nov 19, 2009

You know, I have been from day one...do you really think I would actually hunt ducks??? I should say not.

whistlelock · Nov 19, 2009

DwayneA said:
It's not murder if done in self-defense. Now if you shoot the civilians, then it's murder! I would never do that in real life.

Besides, it's not like the producers give you any other alternatives to deal with those trying to kill you.

I play games for fun. I know it's not real, but there is a time when I have to draw the line between fun and realistic impact.

Laura Croft is a theif. She steals cultural artifacts for...who? Herself.

It doesn't matter that the game has no choice element- she's still stealing. And that's you still controling her actions.

Game morality has no bearing on real world morality. It's a game. Evicting someone in Monopoly is not equivalant to evicting someone in real life.

You are no more moral for "doing the right thing" in a video game than you responsible for the murder you commit in a game.

BigWords · Nov 19, 2009

It's not 'immoral' if it's a user-controlled action in a game. If you take the events presented in the game into the real world, then it becomes immoral. No computer game is inherently moral or immoral save for the crap like Custer's Revenge or Ethnic Cleansing, which barely counts as a game anyway IMHO. Seriously, if you feel that the game is making you question your own morality as you play it, then the game isn't for you.

Most of the games which routinely get cited as being immoral are merely misunderstood (or completely misrepresented) by the media. GTA NEVER had any rape scenes in the games, despite some idiot news presenters and extreme right wing newspapers (The Daily Mail's fascist tirades come to mind) reporting the 'fact'.

Uplink was the first game I played where I questioned the morality of my actions, though the game plays more off the fear of being caught than the fear of doing wrong. I like Manhunt and GTA (in any iteration), so the question isn't one of morality for me. The "people" are only code and pixels...

Rhys Cordelle · Nov 19, 2009

So you're ok with doing immoral things if you're playing a character that's been developed by someone else, but not in a game where you create the character? I really don't get that. You said it yourself:

Personally, I would never do any of those things in real life. I'm no thief, murderer, terrorist, gangster, or any other type of bad person you can name.

Doing these things in a video game doesn't make you any of these things. You're just pushing buttons.

What sort of things do you write about? Does anyone commit 'immoral' acts in your fiction? (assuming you write fiction).

Hittman · Nov 19, 2009

Then there are games where the protagonist can be good or evil. Games like Overlord, Fable, Infamous, Grand Theft Auto series, just to name a few.

How do you play a good guy in GTA? Granted, GTA four gives you a couple of points where you can decide if you kill someone or let them get away, and another spot where you have to decide which of two bad guys to kill, but there really isn't any way to be a good guy in that one.

BigWords · Nov 19, 2009

Playing GTA as a 'good guy' presumably means that you don't deliberately drive on the sidewalk trying to mow down as many people as you can... Uh... Not that I would do something like that...

defcon6000 · Nov 20, 2009

It's meant to be "fun", the game isn't teaching you morals; it's escapism.

I always enjoyed turning to the dark side in KOTOR (their abilities are SO badass). GTA is just for shits 'n giggles.

And if you don't like it, then don't play it. :tongue

You're never forced to do anything you don't feel is right; just turn it off and move on to something else. Maybe pottery or gardening.

Marian Perera · Nov 20, 2009

I have wiped out entire nations in Civilization III. I have dropped nuclear warheads on enemy cities. I have become death, the destroyer of worlds.

That's during the game. After I turn it off, I go back to studying chemistry, writing and doing calligraphy in my spare time.

tarcanus · Nov 20, 2009

DwayneA said:
In most games, the protagonist's personality has already been determined, picked out by the producers. So all you do is control his/her actions. Games like Blood, Duke Nukem 3d, Tomb Raider, to name a few. The game producers don't give you any other alternatives to overcome whatever obstacles they encounter. So when they do the things they do, it's because they're supposed to, you're not given any other choice.

Then in other games, the protagonist's personality actually depends upon the player himself/herself. Games like the Quest For Glory series. In these games, you feel as if you've become the protagonist of the game itself. In one scene of the game Overlord that I know of, you can either return food stolen from peasants, or you can keep it. And in Fable, if you give arrest warrants to a guard, in the future, the town is crime-free and you feel good for playing a part in it, but if you give them to a criminal, the town has become a crime infested neighborhood, and somehow you can't help but feel responsible for what happened. These kinds of game actually allow you to make decisions about how the protagonist acts rather than doing what the game designers expect you to do. Personally, if I ever played these games, I would never do something that I would later come to regret and feel guilty over later.

Maybe that's why the thief is my least favorite character to use in the Quest for Glory series.

No offense, but you're really not making any sense. Like someone else said, it's ridiculous that you find nothing wrong with games where you're forced to commit atrocious/morally reprehensible acts and yet shy away from games that let you choose actions that offend your 'morales'. If you really think about it, the fact that you choose to play a game like Tomb Raider where you're killing animals, and people and stealing valuable artifacts for yourself is exactly like a choice in one of the games you just can't bring yourself to play.

If you choose to play the game, you choose to perform the actions within the game. I find it ridiculous that you'll play Tomb Raider over Oblivion just because one has the option of letting you do 'evil' things while the other forces you to.

KTC · Nov 20, 2009

DwayneA said:
It's not murder if done in self-defense. Now if you shoot the civilians, then it's murder! I would never do that in real life.

Besides, it's not like the producers give you any other alternatives to deal with those trying to kill you.

I play games for fun. I know it's not real, but there is a time when I have to draw the line between fun and realistic impact.

I used to mow down long lines of Buddhist monks just to see them die in an early version of whatchamacallit. Dumb asses would walk just so perfectly in a line through the park...bugged me. (-; Doing that in a game doesn't reflect my morals in real life. I, like The Chris, would not harm a fly.

BigWords · Nov 20, 2009

KTC said:
I used to mow down long lines of Buddhist monks just to see them die in an early version of whatchamacallit.

The top-down GTA? Carmageddon was another fun game, but I was always annoyed by the green blood. I don't want to mow down zombies, I want to mow down people...
Only in games, of course.

KTC · Nov 20, 2009

That was it! Grand Theft Auto...of the old days. I used to hunt down and kill all the pretty Buddhists. (-; Those bastards had wheels...walked on air.

Freelancer · Nov 20, 2009

Uh... you're talking about, ahem... GOURANGA!!! Right?

Always this movie, Resident Evil 2 comes to my mind when we're talking about GTA...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9xaNclkHMA

Xelebes · Nov 21, 2009

I've done it all in my FPS's and sports games that I've played.

benbradley · Nov 21, 2009

There is a bootif here.

Zoombie · Nov 21, 2009

Ya know, i was just thinking that Dragons Age has some moral choices where the choices are between bad and worse.

Like, will you use evil blood magic and the life force of a woman to save her child, or simply kill the child to prevent the demon possessing it from taking over the world.

Both methods involve murdering an innocent...and well, the story goes deeper than all of that, but each layer of depth just makes the choice harder.

You can believe me, I sat there going, "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah," For like...20 minutes as I tried to figure that choice out.

LOG · Nov 22, 2009

DwayneA said:
More and more games these days are made where the protagonist (controlled by you) has the potential to do immoral things, forcing the player to perform these actions in order to proceed or even win. Then there are games where the protagonist can be good or evil. Games like Overlord, Fable, Infamous, Grand Theft Auto series, just to name a few.

Personally, I would never play any of those games, because those game would force me to do things against my morale.

The only games of this type I have played are first person shooters (strangely enough, these are among my favorite games, such as Blood, Redneck Rampage, Duke Nukem 3d, Witchaven, etc), the Tomb Raider series (I've only played the first five games and their expansions), and the Quest for Glory series (as the thief). Personally, I would never do any of those things in real life. I'm no thief, murderer, terrorist, gangster, or any other type of bad person you can name.

If I did play Fable, I would become a good hero. If I played Infamous, I would always make the right choices for good karma. If I played Overlord, I would end the game with a 0% corruption rate. In fact, whenever I play first person shooters, I never shoot innocent civilians (except for one in Blood in the level Breeding Grounds because he has a key you need). Years ago when we first got Duke Nukem 3d, in the Red Light District Level, my younger brother Jeff actually killed all those babes. But whenever I play that level, I always leave with all of them alive.

Maybe it's just me, but I can't bring myself to do such immoral things, not even in videogames. I don't know if there's something wrong with me or not. So go ahead, call me a goody-two-shoes, but that's just me.

Has anyone else ever had these problems in videogames where you've been forced to do something that went against your morales just to win?

So...it's not immoral in a FPS but it is in a RPG? That's the message I'm getting here.
Also, why bother buying an RPG if you're only going to play the good guy angle? That defeats the purpose of the game.

Has A Game Ever Forced You To Do Something Against Your Morals?

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